Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In-game & post-match wake-up call

Joe Allen was never a defensive midfielder for Swansea City, and the gaffer said his usual position is playing further up the field

 I see him as a defensive midfielder mate, that's what I meant. He doesn't offer enough going forward to be anything else in my opinion.

Sterling is never gonna be effective when he's hovering around the halfway line or slightly further. BR must place him just outside the opposition box or further up near to the corner flag so that he can sprint onto a pass and bypass the defenders. Asking him to dribble and out muscled 2 or 3 defenders around him somewhere at the centre circle just doesn't work and how many times we've seen that already, in yesterday's game and previous games.

He needs to be much much further up the field, otherwise he's not much of s use. But we need an Alonso like midfielder to place the passes to where he's supposed to run onto. Sadly, we don't have an Alonso at the moment. I wouldn't blame him for being ineffective yesterday, when he received a pass he's so far away from the box, virtually impossible for him to dribble or bulldoze his way pass 2 or 3 defenders.

I can't tell whether Joe Allen is a DM or an AM. He neither defend well nor attack well. All I can see is he's stringing some passes together without making those passes effective.

The most positive thing I saw was the 3s tearing into the heart of the scums defence. They just couldn;t handle the pressure, if the game had gone on longer they would have cracked, fergie knew that. Unfortunately the game came too early, if the lads had more time playing together the scums would have been thumped yesterday. 

Let's take it on the Arse.

Manchester United v Liverpool: Old rivals are miles apart


Sir Alex Ferguson's pre-match jab in Liverpool's direction as he claimed he did not even know their Premier League position sounded more like a reflex action rather than a renewal of old rivalries.

Ferguson will know Liverpool are irrelevant when it comes to assessing United's real title threats but still cannot help old habits dying hard with an aside guaranteed to get under the skin.

Nothing truly escapes Ferguson's all-detecting radar so he will be well aware that his side's 2-1 win at Old Trafford leaves Liverpool 24 points adrift of the league leaders - a painful statistic for supporters still keen to regard themselves as United's fiercest adversaries.

The contest of the world-class strikers between Manchester United's Robin van Persie and Liverpool's Luis Suarez never truly materialised in a peculiar match. Not through any fault of the Uruguayan.

    “If Rodgers was left with a "what might have been" it would come with the question of whether he should have picked Sturridge from the start”

Suarez was almost reduced to the role of pained observer in a first hour of overwhelming United superiority in which Van Persie demonstrated once more why the £24m handed over to Arsenal in the summer might just work out at the price on the ticket to their 20th title.

Van Persie scored one magnificent goal, could have had another and then set up Nemanja Vidic's unwitting second, a glancing blow from Patrice Evra's header that proved fatal to Liverpool.

Suarez, in sharp contrast, was starved of any supply worthy of the name and deserved better than to serve as little more than nuisance value until the introduction of Daniel Sturridge for the second half.

Whereas Van Persie was offered constant support and supply as he looked like a master striker at the top of his game, Suarez was restricted to occasional flashes as he was left to trouble Rio Ferdinand and Vidic alone for 45 minutes.

The highly impressive Sturridge scored and was the catalyst for a marked Liverpool improvement that allowed manager Brendan Rodgers some optimism that looked well out of reach as his team were passive and negative as United established their lead.

Ferguson was left to reflect on another important victory that keeps United seven points clear of Manchester City. Despite suggesting his knowledge of the Premier League table is a little sketchy in some areas, Ferguson will remember City clawed back an eight-point deficit much later than this last season.

Rodgers, meanwhile, was threatening to stretch credibility just a little too far with his after-match observations.

He had every reason to be pleased with Liverpool's lively last half-hour but it must be placed in its proper context. The game had gone too far United's way before they woke up.

For a manager preaching courage to his players, Liverpool did little to supports Rodgers's message until they were two goals down.

Liverpool may have impressed and even given United an anxious conclusion but the brutal fact remains that Rodgers has yet to oversee a Premier League victory against a team in the top half of the table this season.

Manchester United now have 55 points from 22 Premier League matches - this represents their highest tally at this stage of a top-flight season Source: Infostrada

And the whole afternoon was a harrowing experience for Joe Allen - described rather generously by Rodgers on arrival as "the Welsh Xavi" - who looked out of his depth against Michael Carrick and Tom Cleverley.
The £15m midfield man who followed Rodgers from Swansea was regarded as the shining symbol of what so many like to refer to as the Liverpool manager's "philosophy".

At Old Trafford his only serious contribution was to almost give two goals away while being run ragged, and it was a surprise he lasted 80 minutes before he was replaced by Jordan Henderson. And what a chastening 80 minutes they were for him.

Rodgers was bullish about Liverpool's future as he said: "We are 24 points behind Manchester United but we are not 24 points behind in terms of quality.  (OH DO F*** OFF .. table doesnt lie Mr Rogers)

"The difference is down to the squad.  (Not the manager / owners./ transfer buys )
 Once we close the gap in the squad I have great hope we will be able to challenge."

This is, however, a fairly significant difference and is a theory that carries the same flaw undermining Arsenal's continued "jam tomorrow" insistence that they will compete with the world's best in two years.

This relies on the world's best standing still for two years waiting for Arsenal to catch up - and Rodgers should not expect Liverpool's Premier League rivals to hang around declining to improve their squads while he bolsters his.
It will not be happening. 

Sturridge was the big plus point and certainly gave Liverpool something to cling to as he suggested he could form a potent partnership with Suarez. This in itself leaves Rodgers with a dilemma - does he stick to his trademark 4-3-3 or will he utilise the pair in a 4-4-2 formation?

If Rodgers was left with a "what might have been" it would come with the question of whether he should have picked Sturridge from the start and why Liverpool were so timid until, ultimately, it was too late?

Over the 90 minutes, and on chances created, Rodgers and Liverpool could not seriously complain about the outcome.

Liverpool have had moments of promise against the likes of United, Manchester City, Chelsea and to a much lesser extent Arsenal this season without getting the win that would back up Rodgers's talk of progress.

Rodgers cannot be blamed for accentuating the positive but eventually Liverpool must take more than consolation from these matches. They will get another opportunity in their next two Premier League away games at Arsenal and Manchester City.

United, meanwhile, can glow at what Van Persie has given them and press on in pursuit of another title.

Jam Tomorrow......... but tomorrow never comes.

I see him as a defensive midfielder mate, that's what I meant. He doesn't offer enough going forward to be anything else in my opinion.

Ah right, fair point.

Allen does seem to be playing closer to the back four than usual. Why this is the case when Lucas is on the pitch as well, I don't know.

When Allen was played further forward, and the game for him is more about being clever than being a blood and guts type tackler, he's much better a player.

This is how I'd love to see things set up before February 1st



It's just dawned on me our midfield needs strengthening. With Gerrard getting on, Lucas a doubt whether or not he'll be back to his best, and Shelvey and Allen playing poorly, and having my doubts on whether they'll make the grade, we're looking desperate in the centre.

Wanamaya of Celtic is a beast at 21 years

I want to give my view on the match

I honestly never expect to get anything at Old Trafford.  In the weeks before the game I reside to the belief that as per usual they will get a dodgy goal, a penalty and/or we'll have somebody sent off.  This match is the only one I view with pessimism from the start.  That way I think it's easier dealing with certain defeat.

Then match day comes, I go down to the pub and the eternal optimist comes out

"F**k it, 0-5 Liverpool"

We didn't start well at all yesterday, let them have so much possession and we were totally bullied in midfield and that's where the match was won. 

While Lucas, Allen and Sterling where all over the place, Carrick was picking our team apart, being given far too much time on the ball

The game was too big for Joe.

The reality is we had 2 strikers on the bench who couldn't of played 90 minutes due to their fitness.  Using them as impact was the right call.

We are 9 points from 4th....

Norwich (H)
Oldham (H)
Arsenal (A)
City (A)

Have to get at least 7 points out of 12 from the above to stand any chance of Champions League football.

The reality is, how well would we do in that competition if we got there?

We are 9 points from 4th....

Norwich (H)
Oldham (H)
Arsenal (A)
City (A)

Have to get at least 7 points out of 12 from the above to stand any chance of Champions League football.

The reality is, how well would we do in that competition if we got there?

Appreciate your thoughts but easy there fella. Oldham is only FA Cup.

First half was a killer for us tactically it was all wrong needed to concentrate on attack rather then containing the opposition.Imo the first half tactics encourage players to leave a tackle for the next man where as going to a 442 of sorts stops this because if you let your man beat you theres nobody to blame but yourself and as we showed man for man we are just as good as that Utd side if not better .

For what reason was Luis in the Lone Ranger role again?
Sturridge showed all the the signs prior to the game indeed prior to his signing, that he could do a job in tandem with Suarez and their style of play would compliment both.
For what reason was the Suarez/Sturridge partnership not activated until the game had gone and we're playing catch up?
An early advantage is essential when playing that F***ing lot and you can fanny about all day but if a credible goal scoring threat is not in place you're fu**ed, they put some blanket cover on the one threat and it's no problem.
I'm no tactition but the method in the first half of that game could and should have been a lot better.

The obvious thing is at times how easy we are to play against, we give teams far too much space and time on the ball, the pressing is intermittent at best and we don't pick up runners. 4-3-3 is fine but at time it leaves the fullbacks too isolated as happened with the first goal, although it would help if anyone reacted when the cross came in. I though Allen starting was a mistake and I found it incredible that he lasted 80 minutes. In the second half at times we showed what we are capable of and also that RVP apart this is a pretty moderate manc team.

The reality is we had 2 strikers on the bench who couldn't of played 90 minutes due to their fitness.  Using them as impact was the right call.

Totally agree with this. It's very easy to say we should have started with them, but they've only just got back from injury.

Their impact was maximised coming on against tired defenders considering their fitness isn't close to 100%.

The reality is we had 2 strikers on the bench who couldn't of played 90 minutes due to their fitness.  Using them as impact was the right call.

I agree but the problem was the timing of the impact. After twenty minutes it was obvious Rodger's system wasn't working and he should have been bold enough to make the substitutions then. He didn't, he left it until the beginning of the second half and it cost us the game as a result.

I can see Borini was trying very hard to do well and he looked very frustrated looked genuinely trying to do well. Some of the lads should be ashemed of themselves playing at half pace. Agger must stop his casual marking and he looked too casual in the last few games and must be more imposing from this very moment, he has caused us a few goals already. He should have put in a tackle before RVP pulled the trigger.

I agree but the problem was the timing of the impact. After twenty minutes it was obvious Rodger's system wasn't working and he should have been bold enough to make the substitutions then. He didn't, he left it until the beginning of the second half and it cost us the game as a result.

The timing of their contribution is vital, better to be in the ascendancy than clawing your way back into the contest, probably moreso there than anywhere.
If Suarez and Sturridge had been there from the off an advantage could have been gained then adjustments made if and when necessary.

Too much passing sideways and backwards, seems to be the tactics of the side for far too long. Has anyone else noticed this, instead of being more direct and going on the attack. This leaving sides more time to regroup back in defence.

Too much passing sideways and backwards, seems to be the tactics of the side for far too long. Has anyone else noticed this, instead of being more direct and going on the attack. This leaving sides more time to regroup back in defence.

My other half kept saying all game yesterday "why the f**k do you always pass backwards?  You invite pressure on yourselves dillydallying around with the ball".

It's so frustrating that we can't seem to get the ball forward quickly because when we do, we are dangerous.

My other half kept saying all game yesterday "why the f**k do you always pass backwards?  You invite pressure on yourselves dillydallying around with the ball".

It's so frustrating that we can't seem to get the ball forward quickly because when we do, we are dangerous.

Fully agree with the above.  By the time we get the ball forward the opposition have got back in position (it's been present all season).  Would love to see Pepe return to those brilliant long throws and quick kicks he used to do - that would be a good start.

Can't understand why he didn't start Sturridge yesterday? Can't be about match fitness as he has threw Lucas straight back in.

The timing of their contribution is vital, better to be in the ascendancy than clawing your way back into the contest, probably moreso there than anywhere.
If Suarez and Sturridge had been there from the off an advantage could have been gained then adjustments made if and when necessary.

Without necessarily agreeing with it, I can see what he was trying to achieve. Crowd the midfield and dictate the pace of the game, then introduce Sturridge when Man U's players have tired themselves chasing the ball around. It didn't work but might have done if we had better midfield players and wide men (Sterling and Downing) who had more attacking instincts and an eye for goal. As many others have said, the system isn't the problem, the problem is we don't have the players to make the system successful.

I was thinking: It wasn't Sturridge that made the difference as much as it was Luis being dropped deeper so he can get on the ball. Once he was on the ball more regularly, we actually looked decent. Sturridge just capitalized on that, and did a hell of job too.

I was thinking: It wasn't Sturridge that made the difference as much as it was Luis being dropped deeper so he can get on the ball. Once he was on the ball more regularly, we actually looked decent. Sturridge just capitalized on that, and did a hell of a job too.

Yes, my own thoughts. Luis had 3, 4 guys pressing and marking him all the f*cking time. Now that should have left plenty of empty space for someone else (Downing, Sterling) to score, but they were sh*te and never worried the manc scum. With Sturridge in and Luis dropped deeper, mancs got confused, defense all jumbled up, and we made some decent plays. We could have scored one more (that one from Wisdom that went wide, so sad) but no luck, no time...

BR just screwed up selection and strategy. We should have started with the lineup of the last 2d half.

I agree but the problem was the timing of the impact. After twenty minutes it was obvious Rodger's system wasn't working and he should have been bold enough to make the substitutions then. He didn't, he left it until the beginning of the second half and it cost us the game as a result.

I kind of agree about the timing of the impact sub. But it simply boils down to us losing the game on the back of some woeful defending of a set piece for me mate. Evra's/Vidic's goal was what cost us. We done really well to keep it at 1-0 until half time, I thought. They had some chances and didn't take them. Then we let in a soft goal in the second half to throw it away.

Really frustrating.