Pepe Reina (Napoli/Barcelona)

An embarrassing example of a circle-(knee)jerk from the usual suspects on here.

If you believe its ok for the club to lie to and the deceive the fans, I guess it is a knee jerk.

Hicks and Gillette were probably saying the same thing.

Probably not (assuming he would have stayed go fight for his place) - unfortunately we are in a position where can our rivals above us in the table vastly outgun us financially so we have to make every penny count - therefore I'm not sure what point you're making?

Since when have the spuds and bitters had more financial clout than us?  After all theyve finished above us for 2 consequtive seasons, you know since FSG became our owners.

 

Since when have the spuds and bitters had more financial clout than us?  After all theyve finished above us for 2 consequtive seasons, you know since FSG became our owners.

You're right - Everton don't - normally I add that qualifier.

Spurs have more money to spend than us this season and last partly because of our unwieldy wage bill partly because of the cash injections thy are getting from Befbatov, Modric Bale - and due to the money we flushed down the pan with Cole, Carroll, Downing, Coates, Adam, Henderson* and so on.

*NB I have hopes Hendo will come good but so far he has provided poor to average returns on his outlay.

You're right - Everton don't - normally I add that qualifier.

Spurs have more money to spend than us this season and last partly because of our unwieldy wage bill partly because of the cash injections thy are getting from Befbatov, Modric Bale - and due to the money we flushed down the pan with Cole, Carroll, Downing, Coates, Adam, Henderson* and so on.

*NB I have hopes Hendo will come good but so far he has provided poor to average returns on his outlay.

So they're still spending the Berbatov money 3 years after he was sold.  You know this how?

And they've spent the Bale money before he's been sold, so they don't actually have it yet.

Modric I'll accept, sold last season and probably not reinvested straight away.

I agree we have wasted money on transfers and wages over the last 20 years compared to almost every EPL Club but that doesn't mean we should stop spending altogether.

We operated at a loss of circa £50m upto 31st July 2012 and our wage % stood at 70%.  This is acceptable for FFP rules.  People need to understand that Clubs don't have to make a profit to keep within the rules, they do allow for losses and for debt, providing it's within the Clubs means.

Ours always has been, except when H&G mortgaged us upto the hilt and we could no longer sustain their debts.  I stress, THEIR DEBT, not the Clubs.

I'm sick to death of seeing this propoganda that we have a pittance to work with for the TEAM, yet having all the commercial gains being lauded by our MD.  That the paying public, that's the fans btw, are being asked to dig deeper into their pockets with increased ticket and merchandising prices, yet we, that's the Club btw, are penny pinching over every single deal that could actually bring SPORTING success, rather than financial success, back to the Club.

If this continues the fans will rightly turn against them financially, hopefully then they might think about us and what we want for the Club.

and due to the money we flushed down the pan with Cole, Carroll, Downing, Coates, Adam, Henderson* and so on.

Don't forget Allen and Borini and Assaidi in that , just in case you have a selective memory .

Don't forget Allen and Borini and Assaidi in that , just in case you have a selective memory .

Think Allen will come good - we are likely to sell the other two for approximately the same fee as we bought them so I wouldn't class them in the same category as Kenny's transfers.

Having said that - even assuming you're correct a 50% hit rate is not uncommon for a hood transfer window.

So they're still spending the Berbatov money 3 years after he was sold.  You know this how?

And they've spent the Bale money before he's been sold, so they don't actually have it yet.

Modric I'll accept, sold last season and probably not reinvested straight away.

I agree we have wasted money on transfers and wages over the last 20 years compared to almost every EPL Club but that doesn't mean we should stop spending altogether.

We operated at a loss of circa £50m upto 31st July 2012 and our wage % stood at 70%.  This is acceptable for FFP rules.  People need to understand that Clubs don't have to make a profit to keep within the rules, they do allow for losses and for debt, providing it's within the Clubs means.

Ours always has been, except when H&G mortgaged us upto the hilt and we could no longer sustain their debts.  I stress, THEIR DEBT, not the Clubs.

I'm sick to death of seeing this propoganda that we have a pittance to work with for the TEAM, yet having all the commercial gains being lauded by our MD.  That the paying public, that's the fans btw, are being asked to dig deeper into their pockets with increased ticket and merchandising prices, yet we, that's the Club btw, are penny pinching over every single deal that could actually bring SPORTING success, rather than financial success, back to the Club.

If this continues the fans will rightly turn against them financially, hopefully then they might think about us and what we want for the Club.

Well I don't know of get are literally still spending the Berba money - my point as that they have generally been better with their transfer dealing thanks and therefore have more leeway.

And of course they haven't had to pay out for Rafa, Hodge and Kenny to leave and Brendan to bring in ( plus all their associated minions).

Think Allen will come good - we are likely to sell the other two for approximately the same fee as we bought them so I wouldn't class them in the same category as Kenny's transfers.

Having said that - even assuming you're correct a 50% hit rate is not uncommon for a hood transfer window.

Cole wasn't a Comolli Kenny signing Carlos..

Adam we recouped the majority back

Carroll we got 20 for

Henderson I think will come good but if he is moved on I'd imagine will go for a significant part of the 16m

Coates will go for a fair chunk of 6 we put down for him

Downing ill give you.

Think Allen will come good - we are likely to sell the other two for approximately the same fee as we bought them so I wouldn't class them in the same category as Kenny's transfers.

Having said that - even assuming you're correct a 50% hit rate is not uncommon for a hood transfer window.

Allen would not even make my sub bench.  Henderson would get ahead of Allen. Lucas would be my first choice with Gerrard. Allen doesn't create enough. That is my only issue with him, he passes far more than anyone else, so he should create chances,  not just pass to someone else to create. He needs more to his game than just passing.  He needs to fill in more defensively or attacking,  not just offload the ball all the time.

Well I don't know of get are literally still spending the Berba money - my point as that they have generally been better with their transfer dealing thanks and therefore have more leeway.

And of course they haven't had to pay out for Rafa, Hodge and Kenny to leave and Brendan to bring in ( plus all their associated minions).

Only Kenny leaving and Brendan coming in happened in that accounting period, you can't count Rafa and Hodge just to add weight to your argument. 

Probably not (assuming he would have stayed go fight for his place) - unfortunately we are in a position where our rivals above us in the table can vastly outgun us financially so we have to make every penny count - therefore I'm not sure what point you're making?

Actually we turnover more than 2 of the top 6 above us and are almost equal with the others bar united without CL football for 4 years.

Also we turnover more than all 13 teams below us yet more than half of them have outspent us this window.

Your welcome.

Actually we turnover more than 2 of the top 6 above us and are almost equal with the others bar united without CL football for 4 years.

Also we turnover more than all 13 teams below us yet more than half of them have outspent us this window.

Your welcome.

No doubt in response to that he'll simply point out a spelling mistake rather than tackle the very true fact you raise Lee.

Also to add to PD's point, when you throw in Carroll - £16m and Suarez looking like + £27m leaving a surplus of £9m to offset against Downing, as a financial investment Kenny's signings pretty much held their value when looked at collectively. Yet time and again they're thrown around like some unmitigated disaster, the same unmitigated disaster that won a trophy and got the final of another, it's ridiculous spin only people with agendas would try to sell to Liverpool fans.

Granted they're not great players but when they can be recycled into players of equal value, retaining those that did succeed surely it's not difficult to see with a bit of work we might have actually got somewhere, but as BBB rightly says, such diametrically opposed arguments will not agree no matter how long the debate rages so I'm willing to agree to disagree on everything except the levels of respect shown to Kenny Dalglish. As a Liverpool fan and understanding our values I feel it my place to defend him to all that dare disrespect a living legend.

(also reddebs)

Cole wasn't a Comolli Kenny signing Carlos..

Adam we recouped the majority back

Carroll we got 20 for

Henderson I think will come good but if he is moved on I'd imagine will go for a significant part of the 16m

Coates will go for a fair chunk of 6 we put down for him

Downing ill give you.

yes - it's not individual managers im pointing the finger at it's the cost to the club - which includes opportunity cost.

Paying Joe Cole 120k per week and getting **** all out not only cost us but prevented someone else from playing in his position.

We are comparing our performance in the transfer window to Spurs - put the quibbling aside - I'm sure you're not trying to argue we have outperformed them in this regard?

Have a look at the grpah I posted which shows points accumulated per relevant wage bill - we are way behind them.

Actually we turnover more than 2 of the top 6 above us and are almost equal with the others bar united without CL football for 4 years.

Also we turnover more than all 13 teams below us yet more than half of them have outspent us this window.

Your welcome.

Have a look at this graph:

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/latest-news/wage-and-the-premier-league-scaled-table

No doubt in response to that he'll simply point out a spelling mistake rather than tackle the very true fact you raise Lee.

Also to add to PD's point, when you throw in Carroll - £16m and Suarez looking like + £27m leaving a surplus of £9m to offset against Downing, as a financial investment Kenny's signings pretty much held their value when looked at collectively. Yet time and again they're thrown around like some unmitigated disaster, the same unmitigated disaster that won a trophy and got the final of another, it's ridiculous spin only people with agendas would try to sell to Liverpool fans.

/snip/

Weird isn't it?

You go on and on about the "success" of the League cup and FA cup final which - you have to admit - is as much due to FSG hosing money at the team as it was to Kenny yet on the other hand you say they haven't invested enough for the manager to succeed.

Which is it?

You go on and on about the "success" of the League cup and FA cup final which - you have to admit - is as much due to FSG hosing money at the team as it was to Kenny yet on the other hand you say they haven't invested enough for the manager to succeed.

Got to agree with that... said before that the very repeated phrase "first trophy in years" is only used as a compliment to Kenny, never FSG... who are at the same time criticized for all that is wrong in the world, and forgetting they're the ones who employed the king in the first place.

Not taking sides here, just think it's a point way too unbalanced!

Weird isn't it?

You go on and on about the "success" of the League cup and FA cup final which - you have to admit - is as much due to FSG hosing money at the team as it was to Kenny yet on the other hand you say they haven't invested enough for the manager to succeed.

Which is it?

You really are one of the dumbest people I've ever seen try to convince people you're intelligent.

They haven't invested, therefore there isn't a choice as one of them doesn't exist.

You really are one of the dumbest people I've ever seen try to convince people you're intelligent.

They haven't invested, therefore there isn't a choice as one of them doesn't exist.

I guess Kenny got the money for Suarez, Carroll (British Transfer record), Coates, Bellamy, Downing, Adam, Henderson from Wonga.com - my mistake.

Remarkable job really when you consider what we achieved on a shoestring.

As usual it's the usual precictable and boring response - we fail, its all down to FSG, we succeed, FSG had nothing to do with it.

I guess Kenny got the money for Suarez, Carroll (British Transfer record), Coates, Bellamy, Downing, Adam, Henderson from Wonga.com - my mistake.

Remarkable job really when you consider what we achieved on a shoestring.

As usual it's the usual precictable and boring response - we fail, its all down to FSG, we succeed, FSG had nothing to do with it.

No he got them from the sales of other players, look it up, total club revenue made available to Kenny Dalglish was £40m net after player sales. Not investment Carlos, self generated funds, there is a difference, perhaps you should look it up.

Those same players currently have a combined value roughly what they were bought for, so your assertion that they were poor value and we threw money away is also utter rubbish that you're peddling across the forum like fact when indeed it's more of your garbage we have to endure.

I'm not trying to educate you when I respond you see Carlos, as I know you're too stubborn, too egotistical and far too clever to admit you're wrong, but I'd hate anyone to be taken in by the utter tripe that you attempt sell as fact time and again.

So no not usual, predictable, boring response, just to the truth to your lies.

No he got them from the sales of other players, look it up, total club revenue made available to Kenny Dalglish was £40m net after player sales. Not investment Carlos, self generated funds, there is a difference, perhaps you should look it up.

Those same players currently have a combined value roughly what they were bought for, so your assertion that they were poor value and we threw money away is also utter rubbish that you're peddling across the forum like fact when indeed it's more of your garbage we have to endure.

I'm not trying to educate you when I respond you see Carlos, as I know you're too stubborn, too egotistical and far too clever to admit you're wrong, but I'd hate anyone to be taken in by the utter tripe that you attempt sell as fact time and again.

So no not usual, predictable, boring response, just to the truth to your lies.

So how does that net spend compare with other non-Champion's League clubs?

So how does that net spend compare with other non-Champion's League clubs?

A question, how evasive, how predictable, how boring, how ironic.

A question, how evasive, how predictable, how boring, how ironic.

ha ha ha how unanswered...

That's the thing with your lot's "eh but we've got really good turnover so why aren't we giving Kenny another 40 million to spend" bullshit. As soon as you are confronted  with any facts or logic the whole moronic house of cards comes tumbling down.

Personally I blame Crae in the Community.

ha ha ha how unanswered...

That's the thing with your lot's "eh but we've got really good turnover so why aren't we giving Kenny another 40 million to spend" bullshit. As soon as you are confronted  with any facts or logic the whole moronic house of cards comes tumbling down.

Personally I blame Crae in the Community.

What question do you want answering Carlos?

Try to ask without talking down to me please.. Lets have a grown up conversation where you don't have to come across as condescending, it's not necessary.

So come on shoot... Ask away