Work Permits for footballers

I don't understand the Work Permit issues. I mean, I understand why they're in place for "regular" jobs but even if Coutinho came and sat in the reserves for 2 years, he's hardly be a drain on society given the incredible amount of money he would earn in that time. In fact, given that he would be living in the country and probably spending a large portion of that money here, he would actually be benefiting the economy.

Can anybody who actually knows about these things explain why they are important at all or is it simply a case of trying to treat footballers in the same manner as other employees?
As things stand, it just comes across as points bureaucracy to me.

I think these are the criteria used  in the UK  for a player's working permit extracted from the FA rules

1. The applicant club must be in membership of the Premier League or Football League. During the period of endorsement, the player may only play for clubs in membership of those leagues (i.e. the player may not be loaned to a club below the Football League);
2. The player must have participated in at least 75% of his home country’s senior competitive international matches where he was available for selection during the two years preceding the date of the application; and
3. The player’s National Association must be at or above 70th place in the official FIFA World Rankings when averaged over the two years preceding the date of the application.
Competitive matches
The definition of a senior competitive international match is a:
 FIFA World Cup Finals match;
 FIFA World Cup Qualifying group match;
 FIFA Confederations Cup matches; and
 Continental Cup Qualifiers and Finals matches, for example:
 UEFA European Championships and Qualifiers;

  I don't know if ex.: coutinho fits these criterias
   If NO , why are the rules are so much different from , say italy, 

  YNWA

I don't understand the Work Permit issues. I mean, I understand why they're in place for "regular" jobs but even if Coutinho came and sat in the reserves for 2 years, he's hardly be a drain on society given the incredible amount of money he would earn in that time. In fact, given that he would be living in the country and probably spending a large portion of that money here, he would actually be benefiting the economy.

Can anybody who actually knows about these things explain why they are important at all or is it simply a case of trying to treat footballers in the same manner as other employees?
As things stand, it just comes across as points bureaucracy to me.

Footballers are not exempt from immigration laws in this country. Whilst EU law allows for free movement across continental lines so any EU national working in a country with EU membership can move, live and work in any country that's part of the EU, anyone whose nationality is from outside of the EU must meet certain criteria in order to obtain a work permit and visa to live here or, if they don't meet the criteria, get special dispensation from the Home Office to do so which, in a Footballer's case, usually revolving around the potential to meet the criteria in the near future.

Since the majority of European players' nationality is from somewhere within the EU, it's infrequent to see these issues arising.

I don't know if ex.: coutinho fits these criterias

He doesn't, Liverpool will have to get an exemption from the Home Office.

   If NO , why are the rules are so much different from , say italy, 

Because Italy has different immigration laws.

He doesn't, Liverpool will have to get an exemption from the Home Office.

Ironically it's the Home Office who also decide whether he is an 'exceptional talent'. If they don't think he is, he won't get a work permit.

I love how the government have a say in everything. cu*ts.

Ironically it's the Home Office who also decide whether he is an 'exceptional talent'. If they don't think he is, he won't get a work permit.

I love how the government have a say in everything. Cu*ts.

As poor as the government is, it's going a touch far criticising them for internally controlling immigration rather than allowing a Football Club to dictate who they feel should be allowed to enter the country.

As poor as the government is, it's going a touch far criticising them for internally controlling immigration rather than allowing a Football Club to dictate who they feel should be allowed to enter the country.

So they have every right to usurp the football club's decision for who they feel is an exceptional talent? I don't think the government know better than experts, do you?

So they have every right to usurp the football club's decision for who they feel is an exceptional talent? I don't think the government know better than experts, do you?

If that's the case than wouldn't every company in the country bring foreigners over who have "exceptional talent"? Where the truth lies that they aren't anymore talented but would be willing to work for less, but nothing can be done because these companies who do that say they're "experts" after all.

There are procedures in place and I'm glad they're in place to limit immigration.

I fully expect him to get a work permit because he'll be giving a lot more than he would be taking. 

If that's the case than wouldn't every company in the country bring foreigners over who have "exceptional talent"? Where the truth lies that they aren't anymore talented but would be willing to work for less, but nothing can be done because these companies who do that say they're "experts" after all.

There are procedures in place and I'm glad they're in place to limit immigration.

I fully expect him to get a work permit because he'll be giving a lot more than he would be taking. 

In answer to your question Res, it's easier to simply quote Tom, cheers.

If that's the case than wouldn't every company in the country bring foreigners over who have "exceptional talent"? Where the truth lies that they aren't anymore talented but would be willing to work for less, but nothing can be done because these companies who do that say they're "experts" after all.

Sorry, but football is COMPLETELY different. The talent is on display for the public to see.

If the club sees someone as an exceptional talent, the evidence will be there to back it up - whether it's in the past, present or future. If the player doesn't perform as well as he could, at least the club took a risk. And the government couldn't say or do a thing, because he'd have performed well in the past - which is why the club bought him in the first place.

Sorry, but football is COMPLETELY different. The talent is on display for the public to see.

If the club sees someone as an exceptional talent, the evidence will be there to back it up - whether it's in the past, present or future. If the player doesn't perform as well as he could, at least the club took a risk. And the government couldn't say or do a thing, because he'd have performed well in the past - which is why the club bought him in the first place.

The problem you have there Res is that you're isolating our club as an example to prove the rule. At what point down the chain of football clubs do these powers of self governance stop. Changing a rule to satisfy your own needs is blinkered thinking in my opinion and it will and should remain the governments role to make these decisions.

The government should know if he is an exceptional talent?

Now I have heard everything.

The problem you have there Res is that you're isolating our club as an example to prove the rule. At what point down the chain of football clubs do these powers of self governance stop. Changing a rule to satisfy your own needs is blinkered thinking in my opinion and it will and should remain the governments role to make these decisions.

How is it blinkered thinking? Football is a very public sport and the clubs should have the final say over who stays and who goes.

Immigration is in place for public safety, public health, to protect jobs and national security. Footballers breach none of those - they're as safe as any British citizen would be (generally), they have medical checkups before they join their respective clubs, they walk straight in to a job and they're hardly a threat to the country now, are they? Not to mention that with this 50% tax bracket, they're giving back to the country much more than they take.

I agree that the government should be keeping an eye on immigration, but when it goes so far that they decide who the talent is... well, that's ridiculous.

So they have every right to usurp the football club's decision for who they feel is an exceptional talent? I don't think the government know better than experts, do you?

Yes, absolutely. Immigration should be handled centrally and you can't start making exceptions for certain professions or others will be up in arms.

Thanks for all the replies. My question wasn't particularly about the criteria, I've seen them but I couldn't understand why, for example rule 2 (about international appearances) should apply because he will get paid a hell of a lot of money, whether he makes the grade or not. In that sense, i just felt that Premier League footballers should be exempt anyway, without an appeal.

How is it blinkered thinking? Football is a very public sport and the clubs should have the final say over who stays and who goes.

Immigration is in place for public safety, public health, to protect jobs and national security. Footballers breach none of those - they're as safe as any British citizen would be (generally), they have medical checkups before they join their respective clubs, they walk straight in to a job and they're hardly a threat to the country now, are they? Not to mention that with this 50% tax bracket, they're giving back to the country much more than they take.

I agree that the government should be keeping an eye on immigration, but when it goes so far that they decide who the talent is... well, that's ridiculous.

The law is the law...

If you start making exceptions you're asking for trouble. Football clubs have the same rules as any other business.

I doubt there will be any trouble for Coutinho to get a work permit anyway. Like you say, the football club are the experts, I doubt they will over rule their decision to want to bring him in. Still have to go through the process though.

How is it blinkered thinking? Football is a very public sport and the clubs should have the final say over who stays and who goes.

Immigration is in place for public safety, public health, to protect jobs and national security. Footballers breach none of those - they're as safe as any British citizen would be (generally), they have medical checkups before they join their respective clubs, they walk straight in to a job and they're hardly a threat to the country now, are they? Not to mention that with this 50% tax bracket, they're giving back to the country much more than they take.

I agree that the government should be keeping an eye on immigration, but when it goes so far that they decide who the talent is... well, that's ridiculous.

It's blinkered because you're willing to change rules for your own personal gain without thought of the consequences. Your second sentence proves this because you make a massive assumption based purely on a choice of profession. Stating that footballers are no threat to public health, public safety or national security is hilarious, I didn't know that people who are a threat to public health, public safety or national security had recognised career paths.

Consider the word exceptional, it is ambiguous and subjective therefore a case could be made for any young player based on virtually no performances or evidence to back your decision. So the question would then arise at what level do you allow self governance, premier league only? How would that be fair to exclude your competitors from this advantage you would clearly have, football at the end of the day is a business. Then consider who can purchase a football club, what laws are in place to protect us from giving this power to someone with less than perfect moral standing?

Wanting to change these rules is nothing more than self serving and completely irrational, if you have a problem with who the government choose as exceptional then it can easily be argued that they should consult recognised experts in the field. For all I know they already do, but to suggest this decision be made by the club themselves is born from frustration and not rational thought.

It's blinkered because you're willing to change rules for your own personal gain without thought of the consequences. Your second sentence proves this because you make a massive assumption based purely on a choice of profession. Stating that footballers are no threat to public health, public safety or national security is hilarious, I didn't know that people who are a threat to public health, public safety or national security had recognised career paths.

Consider the word exceptional, it is ambiguous and subjective therefore a case could be made for any young player based on virtually no performances or evidence to back your decision. So the question would then arise at what level do you allow self governance, premier league only? How would that be fair to exclude your competitors from this advantage you would clearly have, football at the end of the day is a business. Then consider who can purchase a football club, what laws are in place to protect us from giving this power to someone with less than perfect moral standing?

Wanting to change these rules is nothing more than self serving and completely irrational, if you have a problem with who the government choose as exceptional then it can easily be argued that they should consult recognised experts in the field. For all I know they already do, but to suggest this decision be made by the club themselves is born from frustration and not rational thought.

We will agree to disagree on this one, then.

I think I'm right, you think you're right. We'll just go full circle, and I don't have time for that.

You would hope that the people who make these decisions would have an adviser in the footballing world. That said, we all know what the British Government are like so that is probably a "no". Of the top of my head, I can't think of any names but I know there have been examples in the past where a player has had an application turned down, gone elsewhere, e.g. Spain, and shone brightly. Whilst I agree that Work Permits are essential, I sometimes wonder whether they are really that much of a necessity in football.

You would hope that the people who make these decisions would have an adviser in the footballing world. That said, we all know what the British Government are like so that is probably a "no". Of the top of my head, I can't think of any names but I know there have been examples in the past where a player has had an application turned down, gone elsewhere, e.g. Spain, and shone brightly. Whilst I agree that Work Permits are essential, I sometimes wonder whether they are really that much of a necessity in football.

They have to be because it's the law.

You can't go making exceptions just because it's football.

Some stupid statements from people in here.

You would however hope that the authorities would make a sensible decision, that's where the debate is, not whether foreign footballers should be above the law just because it's football.

They have to be because it's the law.

You can't go making exceptions just because it's football.

Some stupid statements from people in here.

You would however hope that the authorities would make a sensible decision, that's where the debate is, not whether foreign footballers should be above the law just because it's football.

Think what I was trying to say was that there could be other measures in place. For example, in stead of the government making the decisions, an organisation designed to work alongside the government and focus solely on sport.

They have to be because it's the law.

You can't go making exceptions just because it's football.

Some stupid statements from people in here.

You would however hope that the authorities would make a sensible decision, that's where the debate is, not whether foreign footballers should be above the law just because it's football.

My argument was that the Home Office shouldn't be deciding who is an 'exceptional talent'. Not that footballers should be above the law.

Bloody twisting words.

I have read this morning that up to August 2012 Brazil only had 4 competitive games that counted towards this criteria (not sure how many since).  I also think that due to his age and the fact that he played in a successful U20 side in 2011, that there should be no problem.  The rule relates to being chosen in the squad not actually playing.

You only have to look at some of the "exceptional talents" that have previously obtained work permits.  Kagawa had not met the criteria when he signed for Utd and he got a permit.

I assume that he does not have duel citizenship, which obviously circumvents the work permit requirement.

I would imagine that the powers that be in the immigration office would have someone they could consult about these foreign transfers & in cases of exceptional talents when the players don't meet certain criterias.

In Coutinho's case, the lad is from Brazil who happened to be ranked 3rd or 4th best team in the world & is coming from a "big" team in Italy. Also with Coutinho residing in Europe for the last 3 years, he would be protected under EU laws regarding citzenship?

Just my tuppence!