Oldham 3-2 Liverpool: In-game & post-match debating

This is a rubbish post for me.

Football hasn't changed. We played in 4 competitions in 1979, we play in 4 competitions now. We played 60-odd games in 1979, we play 60-odd games now. We played 42 league games in 1979, we play 38 now. We entered the FA Cup in Round 3 in 1979, we enter it in Round 3 now.

A coach's priority is to win the next game, regardless of opposition or status. We haven't played for 8 days, how much longer do you want players to rest? They are footballers, their job is to play for this club on demand, until such time as they leave.

What other clubs do is their business, what our players do for us is our concern. This was always going to be a banana skin, and we needed to field a full strength side and take no chances. But we did, and when it went wrong as it usually does, Gerrard had to be sent on to try and rescue it. The prioritising policy has gone on at this club for over 10 years. It has repeatedly failed, and unlike other clubs, we can't afford to prioritise. We need to send out our full strength side at the time, and win the game in question. 

Aye, but players back in the 70s and 80s ate sh*t and drank pints. Players in 2013 don't and simply aren't allowed to. So yes, football has changed.

To win games like this you have to compete first and foremost and we didn't compete, conceded what really were 3 soft goals and apart from a spell in the first half (Sterling should have done better when through) we were 2nd best.  The team selection was for me, whilst very attack minded, lacking in any balance or real shape.  The back 4 was fairly inexperienced for what was always going to be a battle, and I was surprised not to see Carra playing in a game like this one. 

If reports are to be believed then Coates may well have played his last game for us.  When you have not been playing regularly (or even sporadically) then I would of thought that was a tough game to come in for and both Coates and Robbo were lacking today for me.  Jones was poor and does not command his area the way a top keeper should do.  Another wake up call for those questioning Reina (and I have had my doubts this year).

Oh well on to the Emirates.

The players have changed. Of course we didn't have prozone back then but i'll guarantee players run further, sprint faster and more often in the modern game than they did back in 1979.

No they don't. The game was played at much the same tempo back then, 100mph all the time. What has changed since then is, pitches are better, diets are better, medical teams are better, recovery times are shorter, wages are astronomical. But the core of the game itself remains as it always was. 11 v 11 over 90 minutes at 100mph every time.
 

So you say, again, i'll direct you to last season's sacking of a manager that reached both domestic cup finals and still lost his job. I don't know about your interpretation but that said to me "we don't give a sh*t about the cups, we care about getting back into the top 4 above all else." Is anyone (other than yourself) surprised BR prioritised the two big league matches coming up this week? And yes, 8 days is plenty of rest of rest but I suspect Rodgers was looking ahead to the 2 games in the next 7.

His job was also to win today. There's busy and slack times in all jobs and professions. You deal with today, today. You deal with next week when the time comes. Prioritising competitions has rarely, if ever worked at this club, and it doesn't work now either.

We achieved a lot in other competitions last year, and ended the silverware famine. The fact the owners don't recognise it as they should is unfortunate, but doesn't take away from it. 

In all honesty, I quite like Coates, he has got some great skills. Unfortunately, speed is not one of his strongest points while that is essential in the EPL. He may be more suited to the Italian league with a slower pace.

His job was also to win today. There's busy and slack times in all jobs and professions. You deal with today, today. You deal with next week when the time comes. Prioritising competitions has rarely, if ever worked at this club, and it doesn't work now either.

Like it or not it's the modern game. Kenny played weaker sides in the early rounds of the League Cup last season and yet we won the trophy. Rodgers played a weaker side in the last round of the FA Cup and we got through. Rodgers played weaker sides throughout the Europa League campaign earlier this season and we got through. Rafa prioritied competitions in 2005 and we won the European Cup for the 5th time.

I wish we could play our strongest side for today everytime but we can't and we don't. In fact no club does. No maybe you are right and all of the managers out there are wrong but it seems to be the modern way. 

No they don't. The game was played at much the same tempo back then, 100mph all the time. What has changed since then is, pitches are better, diets are better, medical teams are better, recovery times are shorter, wages are astronomical. But the core of the game itself remains as it always was. 11 v 11 over 90 minutes at 100mph every time.

I think that one big difference is the overall fitness and conditioning of players nowadays, meaning that a player not 100% is far more of a liability than back in the 70's, hence the greater need to rest/rotate.  Also the size of a squad is probably different.  Teams in the 70s didn't have two full teams in the first team squad - you had the core 14/15 and a reserve team.

Like it or not it's the modern game. Kenny played weaker sides in the early rounds of the League Cup last season and yet we won the trophy. Rodgers played a weaker side in the last round of the FA Cup and we got through. Rodgers played weaker sides throughout the Europa League campaign earlier this season and we got through. Rafa prioritied competitions in 2005 and we won the European Cup for the 5th time.

I wish we could play our strongest side for today everytime but we can't and we don't. In fact no club does. No maybe you are right and all of the managers out there are wrong but it seems to be the modern way.

Oldham didn't field a weakened team, and they play a lot more games every year than we do, with far fewer resources. It worked for them, as it worked for Barnsley, Burnley, Grimsby, Northampton, Palace etc down the years. We got through in the UEFA Cup groups this season but the policy was a huge risk in a tough group, and came to within an injury time shot in the last game of going out altogether.

I don't believe Rafa prioritised the EC in 2005 over other competitions. We just coped better in it. Rafa found the demands of the English game anathema to what he was used to abroad which was understandable, but it was his job to find a way of dealing with it.

Whether it's the modern way or not, I don't like it as it's cost us more often than not, so I will never approve of it.

I wonder BR didn't learn from Harry R and QPR, who brought in players because they said they were up to it and then were not. I don't think with a class club like Liverpool and its history you can do anything but try and win with the best team possible rather than resting players. Shanks would be spinning at the mere idea that LFC could only play their best line-up once a week or that the FA Cup came second to the Premiere League. The idea is to win.

Having vented, I hope Stevie and Lucas will now be on extra-top form on Wednesday and we will see some of the old mighty red style.

Rodgers' selection was not balanced, we have an underperforming Allen who isplaying in a 2-Cm midfield and the formation was like a 4-2-4. How did he expect the CMs to protect this young defense and seriously we all could see Borini was useless on the wing.

This defeat is 70% down to BR and 30% to the youngsters. He should have played a more balanced midfield, why play with only 2 midfielders while it was clear that none of Sterling or Borni were likely to score.

Rodgers' selection was not balanced, we have an underperforming Allen who isplaying in a 2-Cm midfield and the formation was like a 4-2-4. How did he expect the CMs to protect this young defense and seriously we all could see Borini was useless on the wing.

This defeat is 70% down to BR and 30% to the youngsters. He should have played a more balanced midfield, why play with only 2 midfielders while it was clear that none of Sterling or Borni were likely to score.

Without doing a character assassination on Brendan Rodgers I agree with you the team was totally unbalanced.You got the impression that our defenders and midfielders had not played together prior to the kick off.

We got what we deserved simple as that

You cant defend like we did at any level and hope to get away with it. Jones gotaway with one spill to do it again a few minutes later is unacceptable.

Its amazing to see how peoples tune changes. Pre match everyone wanted to see McLaughlin in at right full Coates had to play or else it was a sure sign the gaffer didnt want him and so on. 3 -2 defeat later and were demanding to know why the boss dared to pick such a side. Really? Our cover should be well able to stand up to a struggling league 1 team no matter what. Coates is a full international. Wisdom has played loads of 1st team ball this season, Robinson ive seen touted as a future captain and international!!

We lack the guts and steel required at the minute to be a top team. Our defending as a unit needs huge work.

Questionning the team is looking for an excuse. The answer is there plain as day WE WERE NOT GOOD ENOUGH. If we learn from it it mihght do us good if we dont well then we will continue to be caught out in future

Finally I would not be surprised to walk away from Arsenal with 3 points

I have lost all hope the next two premier games. That's all.

We got what we deserved simple as that

You cant defend like we did at any level and hope to get away with it. Jones gotaway with one spill to do it again a few minutes later is unacceptable.

Its amazing to see how peoples tune changes. Pre match everyone wanted to see McLaughlin in at right full Coates had to play or else it was a sure sign the gaffer didnt want him and so on. 3 -2 defeat later and were demanding to know why the boss dared to pick such a side. Really? Our cover should be well able to stand up to a struggling league 1 team no matter what. Coates is a full international. Wisdom has played loads of 1st team ball this season, Robinson ive seen touted as a future captain and international!!

We lack the guts and steel required at the minute to be a top team. Our defending as a unit needs huge work.

Questionning the team is looking for an excuse. The answer is there plain as day WE WERE NOT GOOD ENOUGH. If we learn from it it mihght do us good if we dont well then we will continue to be caught out in future

Finally I would not be surprised to walk away from Arsenal with 3 points

Great post Brian and is the reason I haven't criticised the manager for this one.

I was happy with the side selected but we just weren't good enough on the day.

I have lost all hope the next two premier games. That's all.

Ok

This is a rubbish post for me.

Football hasn't changed. We played in 4 competitions in 1979, we play in 4 competitions now. We played 60-odd games in 1979, we play 60-odd games now. We played 42 league games in 1979, we play 38 now.

Yes, but all sides only had small squads and 1 sub then. Now sides all have huge squads, and it is the best squads that compete for trophies at he back end of the season.

We could debate it all day but all sports science folk will tell you that you can't play your best 11 every game without expecting injury or a decline in perfomance. Especially when it's a 3 game week.

If this game had been played at anfield think we would have beat them. But there first goal at three minutes put us on the back foot. Then we started to play like a pub team, the defence was shocking. Team selection was awful gerrad and carragher should have definately played, But the were to many players who went missing in action. It seems this club has great difficulty  playing teams way beneath us in the FA cup.Good example mansfield these teams have maximun desire to beat us, and we think we can coast playing at 50 per cent.

I thought Rodgers was bang out of line publicly slagging of the 'young players' who played poorly - and then say "but I have a small squad'

"Young players" will need their confidence boosting to a greater degree than established pro's - and if he wants those players to step up, he has to make those players feel 10' tall and run through brick walls - like Shanks etc would do.

Rodgers lost it in midfield today. Did he not scout this team, or is arrogance so great that he thought he could be physically out-matched in midfiield and defensively, and still come out with a win because the welsh f**** xavi was playing ?

midfiled trio of allen / sterling (or borini - i couldnt work out who was where) and henderson was always going to be roughed up - its why you needed Shelvey and an older pro (dare I say - Downing) in there to match them, to allow Suarez etc and their class to take us over the winning line

Yes, Coates was poor. But so was his love-child Allen - who shouldnt be seen near a liverpool shirt again for a long long time.

And how f**** ironic that a man mountain of a centre forward undoes us at the back ?  No place for Carroll in Brendan's mind - and would be no place for Matt Smith either

Oldham are an alehouse team who played alehouse tactics and we just couldn't cope...That Croft has an ale gut Molby style to go with his double chin !!..Robinson had a mare against him..It was obvious from the off that they were told to launch long balls up to the two big centre forwards..that combined with the wind , bobbly pitch and the roar of the pork pie brigade gave our lads the fright of their lives...Joe Allen got a few digs n knocks early on and Coates was outjumped all afternoon by Matt Smith whilst the other lad gave Skrtel a game he won't forget in a hurry..
Playing 4 up front is all good and well but leaving Henderson to cope in the middle on his own was a big mistake...We had more balance once Gerrard and Shelvey came on but it was never gonna be our day.
After that 5-0 demolition of Norwich I really thought we could push on and make our mark..how cruel this game is !!!

good old fashioned cup tie. If I played for Oldham and was looking for someone to clatter and make my presence felt I would NOT choose Skyrtle.  Loved it when their frontman followed through on Jones and Skyrtle waded in - hard as nails that lad.

Ok, let's say the gaffer changes tact against the more physical sides

How would you go about it, what changes would you ring?

I thought Rodgers was bang out of line publicly slagging of the 'young players' who played poorly - and then say "but I have a small squad'

"Young players" will need their confidence boosting to a greater degree than established pro's - and if he wants those players to step up, he has to make those players feel 10' tall and run through brick walls - like Shanks etc would do.

Rodgers lost it in midfield today. Did he not scout this team, or is arrogance so great that he thought he could be physically out-matched in midfiield and defensively, and still come out with a win because the welsh f**** xavi was playing ?

midfiled trio of allen / sterling (or borini - i couldnt work out who was where) and henderson was always going to be roughed up - its why you needed Shelvey and an older pro (dare I say - Downing) in there to match them, to allow Suarez etc and their class to take us over the winning line

Yes, Coates was poor. But so was his love-child Allen - who shouldnt be seen near a liverpool shirt again for a long long time.

And how f**** ironic that a man mountain of a centre forward undoes us at the back ?  No place for Carroll in Brendan's mind - and would be no place for Matt Smith either

I have to agree with this 100%. As a coach whose reputation is based on coaching younger players and who confesses to loving coach them to come out and say this in public is totally out of order. Some of the senior players did not cover themselves in glory. The team selection and formation were wrong and once again we struggled against a team who adopted a physical approach which says a lot about Rodgers methods as well. What was he expecting, a guard of honour and a red carpet. As I've said before BR needs to talk less and not worry about trying so hard to court popularity, I think we've shown that we struggle when a lot of changes are made and that overall the team and squad aren't good enough, the manager needs to realise this and stop trying to be clever and realise this. This was always going to be a bumpy ride and the start of a long road so Brendan needs to learn and adapt.

Watching the reports about Oldham's backdrop before that game I'd just like to say fair fucks to Dickov.
Backroom staff sacked and looks likely he will be too.

Must have been knowing that this was going to be most likely his biggest game.
No doubt that before the game he and all the players knew that this was there time to go out on a high.
Would explain them attacking from the very first seconds of the game.

Think we should have changed things early on. I'd have brought Carragher/Lucas and Johnson on because it was
clear the likes of Coates and Robinson were struggling early on.

We didn't deserve to go through last night.
We've been here before too. You can't expect to show up for half an hour and pull it out of the fire.
If we were truly serious about the FA Cup we would have started strong and taken off the likes of Gerrard and Suarez
when the tie was won.

Take nothing away from Oldham though. They fought hard for that win and they deserved to go through.
Sickens me to see two goals either side of the half. We were very poor at the back.

Ok, let's say the gaffer changes tact against the more physical sides

How would you go about it, what changes would you ring?

Well for me BR must've had one eye on the Arsenal game otherwise he would've played Johnson , Agger , Gerrard and Lucas from the start.Even if it was only til half time when we could've put our stamp on the scoreline and calmed the home crowd down.
It became apparant after 20 mins that we were being out battled in midfield and we needed a tackler/ball winner alongside Henderson..
I really don't know Rushie , it baffles me..I know we have to blood the young lads in and give em the chance they deserve however if it's not working then BR needs to step up make that sub early on...He waited til they got that ridiculous 3rd before subbing anyone..Nuts !
I can't help but get annoyed , i'm passionate about my team and it did my head in watching that yesterday when I know we can do so much better...Fair play to Oldham and it looks like Dickov has a bit more grace in his managerial career thanks to us and I really hope they knock the bitters out next round !!...
I really hope BR doesn't use the same tactics away at Zenit St Petersburg coz we'll get hammered !!!..We need to knuckle down and really go for that Europa Cup !! There's absolutely no reason why we can't lift that trophy !!..