Oldham 3-2 Liverpool: In-game & post-match debating

Coates for me was shocking but that could be down to not enough match play . It was one of those days i said to friends after watching Brentford and the Leeds game that there would be an upset for Liverpool and there you go . Thats what makes the Fa Cup special and fair play to Oldham . Onwards and upwards

Looking at this game logically it was always going to be a tough game against tough opposition.  When I say tough I don't mean difficult I mean physically tough, a battle, brawn against skill.

So beginning with the logic of the game and therefore a game plan, team selection and tactics, lets start with who can't or shouldn't play, then those who need game time, then those returning from injury and finish with those players best suited for a battle and therefore up for the fight.

Defence.

Reina, injured.  Johnno, injured.  Agger, needed resting due to his injury history.  Straight away you've lost 3 very experienced, battle hardened players that have been the backbone of the defense pretty much all season. 

Only a week ago Brendan recalled Carra to the starting 11 due to the lack of leadership on the pitch, dropping Skrtel to the bench.  Logic would therefore suggest that Carra should have started alongside Coates and this would have been sufficient to keep the back 4 organised, on their toes and he sure as hell wouldn't have allowed us to been bullied like we were.  If Coates was still having a mare then bring Skrtel on and if Robbo was still having a mare then put Stewart at LB.

So a back 5 of Jones, Wisdom, Coates/Skrtel, Carra, Robbo/Stewart would have given us a much more solid defense.

Midfield.

Allen and Raheem have needed a break for quite a few weeks, Bendan said as much himself before Xmas.  The 4th round of the FA Cup away at a tough ground like Oldham is not the place to be playing players who need a rest.  Lucas is still needing match fitness and as we needed a bit of bite or steel in midfield I would have started Lucas and also Shelvey.

That gives us a midfield 3 of Lucas, Henderson and Shelvey with Borini, who also needs match fitness, either making up the 4 or playing next to Luis behind Sturridge.

That line up, for me, would have given us sufficient to overcome Oldham and a 5th round home tie against the bitters. 

We got what we deserved simple as that

You cant defend like we did at any level and hope to get away with it. Jones gotaway with one spill to do it again a few minutes later is unacceptable.

Its amazing to see how peoples tune changes. Pre match everyone wanted to see McLaughlin in at right full Coates had to play or else it was a sure sign the gaffer didnt want him and so on. 3 -2 defeat later and were demanding to know why the boss dared to pick such a side. Really? Our cover should be well able to stand up to a struggling league 1 team no matter what. Coates is a full international. Wisdom has played loads of 1st team ball this season, Robinson ive seen touted as a future captain and international!!

We lack the guts and steel required at the minute to be a top team. Our defending as a unit needs huge work.

Questionning the team is looking for an excuse. The answer is there plain as day WE WERE NOT GOOD ENOUGH. If we learn from it it mihght do us good if we dont well then we will continue to be caught out in future

Finally I would not be surprised to walk away from Arsenal with 3 points

I actually agree with all of that Brian - nobody comes out of yesterday well (maybe at a push I'd give Hendo, Luis & Stevie from the players a pass).

The team put out was unbalanced but still should have had way too much - we looked like we expected it to happen any minute then- "..oh f#ck its 1-0..."' "...oh f#ck its 2-1...", "...oh f#ck it's 3-1..." and we just didn't have the where-with-all to turn it around.

Bad day all round - boss' players and the board (if only for d#cking about thus far in the window.....again - when it's clear we need more). You play a lower league team you have to win the battle to earn the right to play - we simply didn't look like we even knew what that meant.

Four days to reinforce and move on - what's the alternative?

Really poor performance. Not many pass marks to hand out. Perhaps only Suarez and Henderson. Gerrard made a huge difference and it is disgraceful that once again he was relied upon to try bail the others out but he just couldn't quite manage it this time.

Despite some of the players getting a rare run out I have to agree with Rodgers that those who got a chance let themselves down. Robinson & Coates were awful, Jones poor in goal. Borini & Sturridge done absolutely hee haw.

They allowed themselves to be bullied by the physical presence of Oldham and fair play to Oldham for their win. Hopefully they can put Everton out in the next round.

We could debate it all day but all sports science folk will tell you that you can't play your best 11 every game without expecting injury or a decline in perfomance. Especially when it's a 3 game week.

Those boffins would prefer if football was a non contact sport, players were wrapped up in cotton wool, and they take no accountability when their theories go wrong.

Players will get injured in this sport, whether they play 3 games a week or 3 games a month. Breaking up winning teams as we did yesterday is a huge risk, and unsurprisingly it didn't work. Because it didn't work, the replacements have their confidence shot, and they won't get another chance to play for some time. Squad morale has suffered too.

The best way to bring through new players is when they're ready, not because it's a cup game, so if they make mistakes, there are more experienced heads available to bail them out. We have 60 first team games to play, we should be fielding 60 first choice sides to play them. We have to run the team in the club's best interest, not for a bunch of faceless sports science boffins in an office.

Terry Mac made a valid point earlier on Twitter though. If you think of Kenny winning a cup trophy last season and getting us to the final of the FA Cup, yet still getting binned off. Then you have to accept that cup competitions don't really mean anything to our owners and they will not be losing too much sleep tonight whilst they're kicking back in Boston.

Personally I'm really pissed off and always am when something like today happens. I'll still be like this tomorrow.

Take one or two key players out of our team and it's scary how average we appear. Today was confirmation of that.

Let's just hope we don't see a repeat performance of today in the league

.... but I dont give a flying what the owners think.

I am interested in the glory of the cups and whilst we ain't anything near the scum or citeh levels we can at least fill the trophy room cupboard.

some are blaming the pitch's condition, the pitch was not good (if it was , it was for both teams)
 its the FA cup , and time & time again it showed  that you cannot simply change 3/4 of the 1st. 11 because you are playing a lower division club
  I'm not saying the fault is rodgers's , the players he chose let him down with a very poor performance,  little commitment,, defence was awful
     Yes i like the style of moving forward from the back, BUT you are losing the game, with 4/5 mins left  its not good wasting time yourself  by keep passing the ball across between the defenders, In one of these  moments I think we lost over a minute passing the ball across between our defenders
    If you need a goal just pass it or move forward, you cannot score from the back like that
 
 Just hope we learn from this
     YNWA

Watching that again and Sterling just looked like he couldn't be bothered to attempt a block leading to one of the goals.
That's shocking.

Watching that again and Sterling just looked like he couldn't be bothered to attempt a block leading to one of the goals.
That's shocking.

I missed that Racer - but my 9yr old was moaning about Sterling not wanting to get his strip dirty

I missed that Racer - but my 9yr old was moaning about Sterling not wanting to get his strip dirty

Missed it the first time, but watching the game today and Sterling, Robinson, Coates and Jones
were all very poor. Coates got bullied out of the game for most of it. Sterling and Robinson were
caught out a lot throughout the game.

Maybe it's just inexperience. Hard lessons learnt last night.
Skrtel with little or no leadership qualities either.

Given that in the past we had leaders from front to back.

Looked at the spine we had a few years ago.

                         Reina

              Carragher       Hyypia

              Mascherano    Alonso

                        Gerrard   

Plenty of characters and leaders in that spine.
We could afford to rest a few in games and still have enough leadership on the pitch.
I'm afraid we don't have that anymore. You can't expect if from kids and a lot of our first team
players lack it.

Watching that again and Sterling just looked like he couldn't be bothered to attempt a block leading to one of the goals.
That's shocking.

Yea I saw that...It was when they"strolled" down the left wing and put that hanging hoof of a cross in for their 3rd...Sterling just jogged alongside him giving him time and room to cross the ball...Maybe he was scared to put a foot in coz he was on a yellow card but thats just not good enough !!..I think he should've been brought off pretty much straight after he got that avoidable yellow in the first half...you could see it wasn't gonna be his day and BR should've realised that and sacrificed him for Gerrard straight away..
Ah...Hindsight !! a wonderful thing !!...We'll probably smash Arsenal 3-0 on weds !!...

Missed it the first time, but watching the game today and Sterling, Robinson, Coates and Jones
were all very poor. Coates got bullied out of the game for most of it. Sterling and Robinson were
caught out a lot throughout the game.

Maybe it's just inexperience. Hard lessons learnt last night.
Skrtel with little or no leadership qualities either.

Given that in the past we had leaders from front to back.

Looked at the spine we had a few years ago.

                         Reina

              Carragher       Hyypia

              Mascherano    Alonso

                        Gerrard   

Plenty of characters and leaders in that spine.
We could afford to rest a few in games and still have enough leadership on the pitch.
I'm afraid we don't have that anymore. You can't expect if from kids and a lot of our first team
players lack it.

....and you've got it in a nutshell mate, the squad has no spine, no depth, and no reserve of strength to call upon when all around are panicking or cannot find the urgency to panic to an acceptable level.
We need the commitment and experience to adapt to situations that do not make for pleasant viewing much less a happy playing prospect, the likelyhood of getting those qualities from the options Brendan has to juggle are remote.

....and you've got it in a nutshell mate, the squad has no spine, no depth, and no reserve of strength to call upon when all around are panicking or cannot find the urgency to panic to an acceptable level.
We need the commitment and experience to adapt to situations that do not make for pleasant viewing much less a happy playing prospect, the likelyhood of getting those qualities from the options Brendan has to juggle are remote.

Spot on, both you and Racer on that one. No wonder the lads are screaming for experience. Let's hope it isn't falling on deaf ears.

Talking about the spine of the team is one of the reasons i think the boss royally fcked up at half time yesterday ,coates was having a mare of a game crying out for someone to take charge at the back ,and he changed fck all and left Carra on the bench ,that part for me is totally unacceptable  for a man aspiring to bring back the good times, in a game where we needed a man in the trench to fight back we were left bereft of any idea and no fight ,Cara has his critics fair enough ,not quick enough any more i here ,but he will lay it all on the line for us we didnt need a rapid CH yesterday we needed someone with the balls for a fight sadly no one in our back four had that ,feel as bad today as i did yesterday ,not because we lost ,you can always lose any given game ,i feel bad because certain players and the manager left us down yesterday ,that to me is worse than losing.

Talking about the spine of the team is one of the reasons i think the boss royally fcked up at half time yesterday ,coates was having a mare of a game crying out for someone to take charge at the back ,and he changed fck all and left Carra on the bench ,that part for me is totally unacceptable  for a man aspiring to bring back the good times, in a game where we needed a man in the trench to fight back we were left bereft of any idea and no fight ,Cara has his critics fair enough ,not quick enough any more i here ,but he will lay it all on the line for us we didnt need a rapid CH yesterday we needed someone with the balls for a fight sadly no one in our back four had that ,feel as bad today as i did yesterday ,not because we lost ,you can always lose any given game ,i feel bad because certain players and the manager left us down yesterday ,that to me is worse than losing.

and if you check the match thread, everyone and his dog was crying out for Carra to come in, that kind of thing does raise questions about Brendan for sure.

and if you check the match thread, everyone and his dog was crying out for Carra to come in, that kind of thing does raise questions about Brendan for sure.

Brendan was neither proactive nor reactive yesterday mate and that's a worry. 

Havn,t read all the match thread Luke but i can well imagine there were a fair few calling for it ,the game was crying out for it and the gaffer couldn,t see it that is a worrying thing ,because it says either ,he was to stubborn to change or that he just couldn,t see it ,that bothers me quite a bit ,just hope he learnt a painfull lesson yesterday and grows from it.

Liverpool's defeat was the first time they have been beaten away from home in the FA Cup by a team at least two divisions below them since losing at non-league Worcester City in 1959.


Facht .

Another Record Broken  all good stuff eh ?


....  and Brendan blames the players that he actually picked FFS.
Not many Liverpool Managers except Woy go around doing that.
BR hasnt read The Little Red LFC Book Of Rules.


He has read the FSG sound bite one though.
 

Brendan was neither proactive nor reactive yesterday mate and that's a worry. 

Couldn't agree more Debs, thought your take on the match was spot on. Same as you wasn't happy with Brendan isolating the young players without shouldering some of the blame himself, perhaps he's worried for his own job judging by that because I do know a better manager would be deflecting the blame from his players and bollocking them privately. While I've no problems with the truth Brendan paints himself as a bit of a victim of circumstance too often after bad displays, he chose the side, he was wrong and that he can't escape from.

I do think the squad is thin but he had the option of Carra, massive mistake, compounded by not changing it at half time, this he has to learn and while my faith in Rodgers is not affected by this 2nd team performance his attitude towards it and not changing it earlier for more experienced players does raise those niggling doubts.

Brendan was neither proactive nor reactive yesterday mate and that's a worry. 

Great point debs as he is normally very quick to see what is going wrong and make the early change.

Mind on the game on Wednesday I feel before we even kicked off yesterday.

Having said that the side selected was good enough to, and should have, beaten Oldham.

Couldn't agree more Debs, thought your take on the match was spot on. Same as you wasn't happy with Brendan isolating the young players without shouldering some of the blame himself, perhaps he's worried for his own job judging by that because I do know a better manager would be deflecting the blame from his players and bollocking them privately. While I've no problems with the truth Brendan paints himself as a bit of a victim of circumstance too often after bad displays, he chose the side, he was wrong and that he can't escape from.

I do think the squad is thin but he had the option of Carra, massive mistake, compounded by not changing it at half time, this he has to learn and while my faith in Rodgers is not affected by this 2nd team performance his attitude towards it and not changing it earlier for more experienced players does raise those niggling doubts.

I do think Carra would have organised the defense better Luke and it was only last week that Brendan admitted we needed a more vocal leader on the pitch.

The natural leaders are Pepe, Carra, Agger, Lucas, Stevie and Luis yet he only played Luis, in a game that was always going to be a tough, physical contest just doesn't make sense.

As much as his "soundbites" are annoying it's more worrying to me that he is so defensive of himself and pins the blame on anyone and everyone other than himself.

Great point debs as he is normally very quick to see what is going wrong and make the early change.

Mind on the game on Wednesday I feel before we even kicked off yesterday.

Having said that the side selected was good enough to, and should have, beaten Oldham.

Yes he has been quick to change things early in previous matches which makes it harder to understand that he didn't do that yesterday Si.

I agree on paper the team should have been good enough technically but we all know that technical ability sometimes isn't enough playing that type of team away in the FA Cup.

 I still cant get over how easy it was for Oldham, up until the point Stevie G came on they were under little pressure, even then, it was as much them dropping back then it was us forcing the game.

 I did think Downing would start, expected him to have a good game against a 1st diversion team

 We should of been able to beat Oldham, regardless of who played