Trending Topics

      Next match: LFC v Leicester [Premier League] Wed 30th Jan @ 8:00 pm
      Anfield

      Today is the 21st of January and on this date LFC's match record is P22 W11 D5 L6

      Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)

      Read 218694 times
      0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
      srslfc
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 25,347 posts | 1837 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3540: Jan 11, 2019 11:14:50 am
      What formation did Barca use to play though, I thought they'd almost always played with 3 strikers, certainly the last few seasons.

      Was going to say similar.

      Back when Xavi and Iniesta were there they very much played 4 3 3 with Busquets as the holding player.

      I've said before that I see Coutinho as the natural successor to Iniesta but maybe they don't have a Xavi to balance that?

      Rush Goalie
      • Forum Didi Hamann
      • ***

      • 291 posts | 34 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3541: Jan 11, 2019 12:10:15 pm

      I'd take him back but Barca would want their money back you'd be talking £120m at least not to mention the wages.
      I'm not desperate for him to return but would hate him to go to Utd. The ONLY way I could see it is if Barca are paying in instalments and they've still got a lot to pay.
      I'd be staggered if he returned, not sure how much Klopp would want him  either.
      HScRed1
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 13,705 posts | 2648 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3542: Jan 11, 2019 12:12:52 pm
      What formation did Barca use to play though, I thought they'd almost always played with 3 strikers, certainly the last few seasons.

      They have but with the likes of Iniesta, Rakatic and Biscuits as the midfielders there is plenty of defensive cover there.

      The front 3 of Suarez, Dembele and Messi means CM is the only option for Coutinho at the moment unless they want to accommodate Coutinho.
      HScRed1
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 13,705 posts | 2648 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3543: Jan 11, 2019 12:15:10 pm
      Was going to say similar.

      Back when Xavi and Iniesta were there they very much played 4 3 3 with Busquets as the holding player.

      I've said before that I see Coutinho as the natural successor to Iniesta but maybe they don't have a Xavi to balance that?



      That’s a myth that Coutinho is a great CM, he is an attacker.

      Klopp realised his defensive fallibility playing in midfield as witnessed in the WC,
      Looks like so has Valverde.
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 7,529 posts | 1503 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3544: Jan 11, 2019 12:52:24 pm
      I'd take him back but Barca would want their money back you'd be talking £120m at least not to mention the wages.
      I'm not desperate for him to return but would hate him to go to Utd. The ONLY way I could see it is if Barca are paying in instalments and they've still got a lot to pay.
      I'd be staggered if he returned, not sure how much Klopp would want him  either.

      Apparently Barca are paying in instalments and still have quite a lot to pay so I'm sure we could come to some arrangement with them but it would still cost us a good deal, but a fully motivated Coutinho in this current team, WOW!
      However I think its all academic as I don't think Klopp would want him back and I think he's quite a stubborn sod in that regard.
      bmck
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 5,587 posts | 740 
      • YNWA
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3545: Jan 11, 2019 01:08:37 pm
      I was sorry that he wanted to leave, but thought was right to let him go when we did.
      Loved watching him play, what a player he could be on his day.
      But wouldn't have him back - after all the sh*te that went on at the time - should we let him go/should we keep him - we bought VVD with the money, and moved on.
      Sorry, but for me that ship has sailed an ain't coming back.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,597 posts | 1870 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3546: Jan 11, 2019 01:28:52 pm
      That’s a myth that Coutinho is a great CM, he is an attacker.

      Klopp realised his defensive fallibility playing in midfield as witnessed in the WC,
      Looks like so has Valverde.

      When Coutinho was injured, Klopp stated "we lose some defensive solidity when Phil doesn't play", and he was playing mostly on the left at the time, as an attacker.

      So I'd suggest Klopp understood the opposite of what you are saying.
      FL Red
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 23,228 posts | 3184 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3547: Jan 11, 2019 01:30:22 pm

      Nope, screw him.
      Scotia
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 7,753 posts | 2025 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3548: Jan 11, 2019 01:41:34 pm
      I am warming to the notion.

      Never been replaced.

      Just warming a little mind.

      No standard bedding in period required.......🤔
      ConzS
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 2,241 posts | 355 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3549: Jan 11, 2019 01:42:19 pm
      When Coutinho was injured, Klopp stated "we lose some defensive solidity when Phil doesn't play", and he was playing mostly on the left at the time, as an attacker.

      So I'd suggest Klopp understood the opposite of what you are saying.
      Yeah mate I think it’s more likely that the ‘myth’ is Coutinho being a defensive liability. I mean the guy is no Sergio Busquets, we didn’t see lunging tackles or crucial interceptions but I don’t ever recall him being lazy. He would often pick up possession from deep and turn defence into attack as well.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,597 posts | 1870 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3550: Jan 11, 2019 01:46:06 pm
      Yeah mate I think it’s more likely that the ‘myth’ is Coutinho being a defensive liability. I mean the guy is no Sergio Busquets, we didn’t see lunging tackles or crucial interceptions but I don’t ever recall him being lazy. He would often pick up possession from deep and turn defence into attack as well.

      Exactly.
      Klopp spoke about it a couple of times.

      The other myth is that defending only begins in our half.
      Coutinho was good at defending from the front, not tackling as such, but closing off opposition options, passing lanes, half spaces and pressing. He was also effective tracking back, an area where Mane could improve.
      waltonl4
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 25,088 posts | 3029 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3551: Jan 11, 2019 01:54:41 pm
      I cant see us wanting him back unless they do a p/x with Lazar. All of Klopps players have to have a defensive side to their game we defend as a team and its probably why he likes Lallana he would have loved seeing Rushie then.
      HScRed1
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 13,705 posts | 2648 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3552: Jan 11, 2019 02:20:18 pm
      When Coutinho was injured, Klopp stated "we lose some defensive solidity when Phil doesn't play", and he was playing mostly on the left at the time, as an attacker.

      So I'd suggest Klopp understood the opposite of what you are saying.

      Lol
      Ribapuru
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,292 posts | 1199 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3553: Jan 11, 2019 02:26:47 pm
      That’s a myth that Coutinho is a great CM, he is an attacker.

      Klopp realised his defensive fallibility playing in midfield as witnessed in the WC,
      Looks like so has Valverde.
      In CM he is a defensive liability. As deep lying playmaker he does nothing off the ball.
      Coutinho doesn't score enough to be a traditional forward.
      He is a number 10 or a winger.
      We use a front 3, Coutinho would be okay like below.

               Bobby
      Salah          Coutinho.

      He might just edge ahead of Mane, but for the slight difference I would say the 142m we got was more useful.
      We don't use a number 10 so his options would have been limited here and we have Shaqiri who can alternate with Mane or be a number 10 if we ever change formation.
      HScRed1
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 13,705 posts | 2648 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3554: Jan 11, 2019 02:26:54 pm
      Exactly.
      Klopp spoke about it a couple of times.

      The other myth is that defending only begins in our half.
      Coutinho was good at defending from the front, not tackling as such, but closing off opposition options, passing lanes, half spaces and pressing. He was also effective tracking back, an area where Mane could improve.

      Mane could learn from Coutinho tracking back - comedy post of the year!
      Ribapuru
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,292 posts | 1199 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3555: Jan 11, 2019 02:27:48 pm
      Yeah mate I think it’s more likely that the ‘myth’ is Coutinho being a defensive liability. I mean the guy is no Sergio Busquets, we didn’t see lunging tackles or crucial interceptions but I don’t ever recall him being lazy. He would often pick up possession from deep and turn defence into attack as well.
      Both you and Swab are way off, he is no good at CM and he is a defensive liability.. that is the reason he is no good at CM.
      Ribapuru
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,292 posts | 1199 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3556: Jan 11, 2019 02:33:17 pm
      Mane could learn from Coutinho tracking back - comedy post of the year!
      I really can't understand why people think Coutinho is okay defensively, it shows what they actually know.

      Aerial battles won 31
      Aerial battles lost 138

      Duels won 799
      Duels lost 948

      If you look on whoscored, his weakness is tackling.
      I agree with that.
      RedPuppy
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 17,190 posts | 1777 
      • Parum Rutilus Canis: Illegitimi non carborundum
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3557: Jan 11, 2019 02:36:05 pm
      Why would he come back? He was desperate to leave, throwing sickies left, tight and centre to get his way. Well he got that.

      People said that we should let him follow his dream of playing for Barca, as a South American, that was his destiny. Ha!

      We have moved on, personally not bothered if he comes back, but if he does, £40m tops, and he starts on the bench and has to work for his place.

      Little Magician? Obviously not.

      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,597 posts | 1870 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3558: Jan 11, 2019 02:46:25 pm

      This is how I know that you are not interested in debate, or anything else except your own view.

      If you were actually interested in anything but your own "opinion", you'd look up what Klopp said, and try to understand the reasons he said it.

      Perhaps a good start would be understanding that Klopp knows his system and his players better than you or I, and how players fit into it and perform in it, and what their roles are.

      I won't hold my breath though.
      It's far easier for you and others of your ilk to dismiss whatever doesn't fit your agenda, than it is to actually learn something.
      srslfc
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 25,347 posts | 1837 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3559: Jan 11, 2019 02:47:44 pm
      That’s a myth that Coutinho is a great CM, he is an attacker.

      Klopp realised his defensive fallibility playing in midfield as witnessed in the WC,
      Looks like so has Valverde.

      Personally I wouldn't class Iniesta's position in that 4 3 3 of Barca's  as a CM mate and for me Coutinho is one of the best around in that position.

                            Busquets

      Xavi
                                              Iniesta

      They always played like this from what I seen.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,597 posts | 1870 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3560: Jan 11, 2019 02:51:11 pm
      Personally I wouldn't class Iniesta's position in that 4 3 3 of Barca's  as a CM mate and for me Coutinho is one of the best around in that position.

                            Busquets

      Xavi
                                              Iniesta

      They always played like this from what I seen.

      The fact that Barcelona nearly always play very high up the pitch, almost exclusively in the opponents half, seems to confuse people.

      In a normal 442 or 433 without playing so high most of the time, Iniesta would look like a midfielder.
      When he plays for Barca, it looks like he is playing a different position, but it's the same one, just higher up.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,597 posts | 1870 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3561: Jan 11, 2019 02:52:35 pm
      Mane could learn from Coutinho tracking back - comedy post of the year!

      Except that's not what I said.

      You do this a lot.

      Does lying your arse off give you some kind of sexual thrill?
      PurpleMonkey
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 9,123 posts | 1473 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3562: Jan 11, 2019 02:54:00 pm
      Personally I wouldn't class Iniesta's position in that 4 3 3 of Barca's  as a CM mate and for me Coutinho is one of the best around in that position.

                            Busquets

      Xavi
                                              Iniesta

      They always played like this from what I seen.

      Valverde played more a 442/424 last season, but this season he has changed to a 433.
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 7,529 posts | 1503 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3563: Jan 11, 2019 03:03:34 pm
      Except that's not what I said.

      You do this a lot.

      Does lying your arse off give you some kind of sexual thrill?

      "He [Coutinho] was also effective tracking back, an area where Mane could improve."

      You did in that sentence imply that Coutinho was better at tracking back than Mane, which with the utmost respect is utter bollocks, all our forwards are superb at tracking back and winning the ball back, better than I recall Coutinho being, although he was ok at it as well.
      HScRed1
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 13,705 posts | 2648 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3564: Jan 11, 2019 03:19:43 pm
      Personally I wouldn't class Iniesta's position in that 4 3 3 of Barca's  as a CM mate and for me Coutinho is one of the best around in that position.

                            Busquets

      Xavi
                                              Iniesta

      They always played like this from what I seen.

      Thats central midfield what else is it?

      Scotia
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 7,753 posts | 2025 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3565: Jan 11, 2019 03:30:21 pm
      Thats central midfield what else is it?



      Souness was a CM mate - but nobody would suggest he and Iniesta took up the same positions.

      I think the poster is saying saying that in a 3 - particularly the way Barca play - that position has become more advanced and more specialised over time.
      srslfc
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 25,347 posts | 1837 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3566: Jan 11, 2019 03:34:03 pm
      Thats central midfield what else is it?



      OK strictly speaking it's CM but I'm pretty sure you know what I'm getting at.

      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,597 posts | 1870 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3567: Jan 11, 2019 03:34:45 pm
      Souness was a CM mate - but nobody would suggest he and Iniesta took up the same positions.

      I think the poster is saying saying that in a 3 - particularly the way Barca play - that position has become more advanced and more specialised over time.

      OK strictly speaking it's CM but I'm pretty sure you know what I'm getting at.





      Apparently, nuance is hard for some.
      racerx34
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 31,286 posts | 2158 
      • THE SALT IN THE SOUP
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3568: Jan 11, 2019 03:53:58 pm
      At the time Coutinho was signed by Barcelona, his positional play was being described as one where he was
      slowly being moved, by Klopp, from LW to LM. Another year at Liverpool and he would have ended up playing there.

      Mane and Keita can perform that role now.

      Problem for Coutinho is he is still playing at LW now for Barcelona because of the Neymar shaped hole in the squad,
      when his pace is not ideal for that postion.
      HScRed1
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 13,705 posts | 2648 
      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3569: Jan 11, 2019 04:45:52 pm
      Souness was a CM mate - but nobody would suggest he and Iniesta took up the same positions.

      I think the poster is saying saying that in a 3 - particularly the way Barca play - that position has become more advanced and more specialised over time.

      He said he wouldn’t class Iniesta as a CM not what position he primarily plays in midfield.

      Quick Reply