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      Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)

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      Swab
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3550: Jan 11, 2019 01:46:06 pm
      Yeah mate I think it’s more likely that the ‘myth’ is Coutinho being a defensive liability. I mean the guy is no Sergio Busquets, we didn’t see lunging tackles or crucial interceptions but I don’t ever recall him being lazy. He would often pick up possession from deep and turn defence into attack as well.

      Exactly.
      Klopp spoke about it a couple of times.

      The other myth is that defending only begins in our half.
      Coutinho was good at defending from the front, not tackling as such, but closing off opposition options, passing lanes, half spaces and pressing. He was also effective tracking back, an area where Mane could improve.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3551: Jan 11, 2019 01:54:41 pm
      I cant see us wanting him back unless they do a p/x with Lazar. All of Klopps players have to have a defensive side to their game we defend as a team and its probably why he likes Lallana he would have loved seeing Rushie then.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3552: Jan 11, 2019 02:20:18 pm
      When Coutinho was injured, Klopp stated "we lose some defensive solidity when Phil doesn't play", and he was playing mostly on the left at the time, as an attacker.

      So I'd suggest Klopp understood the opposite of what you are saying.

      Lol
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3553: Jan 11, 2019 02:26:47 pm
      That’s a myth that Coutinho is a great CM, he is an attacker.

      Klopp realised his defensive fallibility playing in midfield as witnessed in the WC,
      Looks like so has Valverde.
      In CM he is a defensive liability. As deep lying playmaker he does nothing off the ball.
      Coutinho doesn't score enough to be a traditional forward.
      He is a number 10 or a winger.
      We use a front 3, Coutinho would be okay like below.

               Bobby
      Salah          Coutinho.

      He might just edge ahead of Mane, but for the slight difference I would say the 142m we got was more useful.
      We don't use a number 10 so his options would have been limited here and we have Shaqiri who can alternate with Mane or be a number 10 if we ever change formation.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3554: Jan 11, 2019 02:26:54 pm
      Exactly.
      Klopp spoke about it a couple of times.

      The other myth is that defending only begins in our half.
      Coutinho was good at defending from the front, not tackling as such, but closing off opposition options, passing lanes, half spaces and pressing. He was also effective tracking back, an area where Mane could improve.

      Mane could learn from Coutinho tracking back - comedy post of the year!
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3555: Jan 11, 2019 02:27:48 pm
      Yeah mate I think it’s more likely that the ‘myth’ is Coutinho being a defensive liability. I mean the guy is no Sergio Busquets, we didn’t see lunging tackles or crucial interceptions but I don’t ever recall him being lazy. He would often pick up possession from deep and turn defence into attack as well.
      Both you and Swab are way off, he is no good at CM and he is a defensive liability.. that is the reason he is no good at CM.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3556: Jan 11, 2019 02:33:17 pm
      Mane could learn from Coutinho tracking back - comedy post of the year!
      I really can't understand why people think Coutinho is okay defensively, it shows what they actually know.

      Aerial battles won 31
      Aerial battles lost 138

      Duels won 799
      Duels lost 948

      If you look on whoscored, his weakness is tackling.
      I agree with that.
      RedPuppy
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3557: Jan 11, 2019 02:36:05 pm
      Why would he come back? He was desperate to leave, throwing sickies left, tight and centre to get his way. Well he got that.

      People said that we should let him follow his dream of playing for Barca, as a South American, that was his destiny. Ha!

      We have moved on, personally not bothered if he comes back, but if he does, £40m tops, and he starts on the bench and has to work for his place.

      Little Magician? Obviously not.

      Swab
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3558: Jan 11, 2019 02:46:25 pm

      This is how I know that you are not interested in debate, or anything else except your own view.

      If you were actually interested in anything but your own "opinion", you'd look up what Klopp said, and try to understand the reasons he said it.

      Perhaps a good start would be understanding that Klopp knows his system and his players better than you or I, and how players fit into it and perform in it, and what their roles are.

      I won't hold my breath though.
      It's far easier for you and others of your ilk to dismiss whatever doesn't fit your agenda, than it is to actually learn something.
      srslfc
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3559: Jan 11, 2019 02:47:44 pm
      That’s a myth that Coutinho is a great CM, he is an attacker.

      Klopp realised his defensive fallibility playing in midfield as witnessed in the WC,
      Looks like so has Valverde.

      Personally I wouldn't class Iniesta's position in that 4 3 3 of Barca's  as a CM mate and for me Coutinho is one of the best around in that position.

                            Busquets

      Xavi
                                              Iniesta

      They always played like this from what I seen.
      Swab
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3560: Jan 11, 2019 02:51:11 pm
      Personally I wouldn't class Iniesta's position in that 4 3 3 of Barca's  as a CM mate and for me Coutinho is one of the best around in that position.

                            Busquets

      Xavi
                                              Iniesta

      They always played like this from what I seen.

      The fact that Barcelona nearly always play very high up the pitch, almost exclusively in the opponents half, seems to confuse people.

      In a normal 442 or 433 without playing so high most of the time, Iniesta would look like a midfielder.
      When he plays for Barca, it looks like he is playing a different position, but it's the same one, just higher up.
      Swab
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3561: Jan 11, 2019 02:52:35 pm
      Mane could learn from Coutinho tracking back - comedy post of the year!

      Except that's not what I said.

      You do this a lot.

      Does lying your arse off give you some kind of sexual thrill?
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3562: Jan 11, 2019 02:54:00 pm
      Personally I wouldn't class Iniesta's position in that 4 3 3 of Barca's  as a CM mate and for me Coutinho is one of the best around in that position.

                            Busquets

      Xavi
                                              Iniesta

      They always played like this from what I seen.

      Valverde played more a 442/424 last season, but this season he has changed to a 433.
      heimdall
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3563: Jan 11, 2019 03:03:34 pm
      Except that's not what I said.

      You do this a lot.

      Does lying your arse off give you some kind of sexual thrill?

      "He [Coutinho] was also effective tracking back, an area where Mane could improve."

      You did in that sentence imply that Coutinho was better at tracking back than Mane, which with the utmost respect is utter bollocks, all our forwards are superb at tracking back and winning the ball back, better than I recall Coutinho being, although he was ok at it as well.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3564: Jan 11, 2019 03:19:43 pm
      Personally I wouldn't class Iniesta's position in that 4 3 3 of Barca's  as a CM mate and for me Coutinho is one of the best around in that position.

                            Busquets

      Xavi
                                              Iniesta

      They always played like this from what I seen.

      Thats central midfield what else is it?

      Scotia
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3565: Jan 11, 2019 03:30:21 pm
      Thats central midfield what else is it?



      Souness was a CM mate - but nobody would suggest he and Iniesta took up the same positions.

      I think the poster is saying saying that in a 3 - particularly the way Barca play - that position has become more advanced and more specialised over time.
      srslfc
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3566: Jan 11, 2019 03:34:03 pm
      Thats central midfield what else is it?



      OK strictly speaking it's CM but I'm pretty sure you know what I'm getting at.

      Swab
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3567: Jan 11, 2019 03:34:45 pm
      Souness was a CM mate - but nobody would suggest he and Iniesta took up the same positions.

      I think the poster is saying saying that in a 3 - particularly the way Barca play - that position has become more advanced and more specialised over time.

      OK strictly speaking it's CM but I'm pretty sure you know what I'm getting at.





      Apparently, nuance is hard for some.
      racerx34
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3568: Jan 11, 2019 03:53:58 pm
      At the time Coutinho was signed by Barcelona, his positional play was being described as one where he was
      slowly being moved, by Klopp, from LW to LM. Another year at Liverpool and he would have ended up playing there.

      Mane and Keita can perform that role now.

      Problem for Coutinho is he is still playing at LW now for Barcelona because of the Neymar shaped hole in the squad,
      when his pace is not ideal for that postion.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3569: Jan 11, 2019 04:45:52 pm
      Souness was a CM mate - but nobody would suggest he and Iniesta took up the same positions.

      I think the poster is saying saying that in a 3 - particularly the way Barca play - that position has become more advanced and more specialised over time.

      He said he wouldn’t class Iniesta as a CM not what position he primarily plays in midfield.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3570: Jan 11, 2019 04:51:52 pm
      This is how I know that you are not interested in debate, or anything else except your own view.

      If you were actually interested in anything but your own "opinion", you'd look up what Klopp said, and try to understand the reasons he said it.

      Perhaps a good start would be understanding that Klopp knows his system and his players better than you or I, and how players fit into it and perform in it, and what their roles are.

      I won't hold my breath though.
      It's far easier for you and others of your ilk to dismiss whatever doesn't fit your agenda, than it is to actually learn something.

      And there in is your problem you think that Klopp is the be all of football.

      I can make up my own mind watching and analysing Coutinho when he has played in midfield compared to as an attacker for LFC, Brazil and Barca to come to a conclusion that many have about his best position.

      Maybe if you accepted even Klopp is human you would realise he makes mistakes like playing Milner as a DM against Wolves!
      ConzS
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3571: Jan 11, 2019 04:59:09 pm
      Exactly.
      Klopp spoke about it a couple of times.

      The other myth is that defending only begins in our half.
      Coutinho was good at defending from the front, not tackling as such, but closing off opposition options, passing lanes, half spaces and pressing.
      Yeah mate, precisely. Hardly think Klopp would have played him day in day out if he was such a defensive liability. But then again, maybe he wasn’t aware of Coutinho’s aerial duel stats.
      srslfc
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3572: Jan 11, 2019 05:14:02 pm
      He said he wouldn’t class Iniesta as a CM not what position he primarily plays in midfield.

      I wouldn't mate and again I'm certain you know what I'm talking about as anytime I've debated with you before you never struck me as an idiot so I can only guess you're being awkward for some reason.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3573: Jan 11, 2019 05:20:48 pm
      I wouldn't mate and again I'm certain you know what I'm talking about as anytime I've debated with you before you never struck me as an idiot so I can only guess you're being awkward for some reason.

      Not being awkward at all mate you said :
      “Personally I wouldn't class Iniesta's position in that 4 3 3 of Barca's  as a CM mate”

      And I replied back to your quote so I can only apologise if you think I’m being awkward.


      Scotia
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3574: Jan 11, 2019 05:43:13 pm
      He said he wouldn’t class Iniesta as a CM not what position he primarily plays in midfield.

      Which is fair

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