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      Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)

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      waltonl4
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3657: Jul 17, 2019 01:07:31 pm
      what has pride got to do with anything. He left we went on to a CL final in 2018 in 2019 again without him we lost one league game and won the CL so how having left us is he going to improve on what we have achieved without him.
      ConzS
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3658: Jul 17, 2019 01:36:13 pm
      what has pride got to do with anything. He left we went on to a CL final in 2018 in 2019 again without him we lost one league game and won the CL so how having left us is he going to improve on what we have achieved without him.
      Do you mean other than the fact that since he left, 3 integral first team players have arrived in the form of Allison, Van Dijk and Fabinho?

      The only reason Coutinho’s departure improved our team is because it gave us a considerable amount of money to improve other aspects of the team. You can’t realistically think that if we had signed these players and kept Coutinho we would be worse off.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3659: Jul 17, 2019 01:54:05 pm
      Do you mean other than the fact that since he left, 3 integral first team players have arrived in the form of Allison, Van Dijk and Fabinho?

      The only reason Coutinho’s departure improved our team is because it gave us a considerable amount of money to improve other aspects of the team. You can’t realistically think that if we had signed these players and kept Coutinho we would be worse off.

      so he in his position was replaced by who exactly ?. JĂźrgen built his team without him and he wasn't missed if you think Virgil or Allison made up for his departure I am not sure how you can square that circle. We have bought 3 midfield players since he left Shaq /Naby/ Fab.
       I don't really care if he comes back or not but he isn't going to turn us into Champions because we already are.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3660: Jul 17, 2019 02:16:25 pm
      what has pride got to do with anything. He left we went on to a CL final in 2018 in 2019 again without him we lost one league game and won the CL so how having left us is he going to improve on what we have achieved without him.

      This.
      ruthcity
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3661: Jul 17, 2019 03:22:16 pm

      With his current club not really starting him when fit and looking to offload him by planting mouthpieces in the market... I’d say it’s a little overrated. £0 and we can start to discuss.
      ConzS
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3662: Jul 17, 2019 03:39:15 pm
      so he in his position was replaced by who exactly ?. JĂźrgen built his team without him and he wasn't missed if you think Virgil or Allison made up for his departure I am not sure how you can square that circle. We have bought 3 midfield players since he left Shaq /Naby/ Fab.
       I don't really care if he comes back or not but he isn't going to turn us into Champions because we already are.
      But that wasn’t the point, you didn’t mention anything about him being replaced. You said that we had improved since his departure as if to justify not taking him back. We improved as a result of improving our problem areas, namely centre back and goal keeper, while also improving the overall squad with a number of other acquisitions, largely funded from his sale to Barcelona.

      Regardless of whether you believe it is morally right to take him back (which I am on the fence about to be honest), you surely can’t be saying that we wouldn’t improve with him in the squad.

      heimdall
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3663: Jul 17, 2019 04:23:22 pm
      He was a very good player for us, yes he'd go missing in some games but in other games he single handedly win it for us with a delicious kick curled into the top corner. I'd take him back with open arms and this loan deal seems like a very good deal.
      DanMann
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3664: Jul 17, 2019 05:44:35 pm
      I can see this happening.

      We are very quiet in the market, and yet we need strengthening. Anyone who pretends otherwise is dreaming.

      Coutinho fits a need. We know him. He strengthens the team, and is a talent. Plus.. he's desperate.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3665: Jul 17, 2019 11:53:20 pm
      I don't really care if he comes back or not but he isn't going to turn us into Champions because we already are.

      I mean this is the actual truth; it can't be argued.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3666: Jul 18, 2019 08:18:29 pm
      And when PSG flutter their eyelshes at him, and he gets another "bad back"?

      Fucks sake.
      Some of you lads are like the women who keep taking the boyfriend back who bets the piss out of her every time he gets drunk.
      If he did it once, he'll do it again; "It ws always my dream to play for PSG after they offered to double my wages"



      What? Everton wives you mean!!
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3667: Jul 18, 2019 08:29:34 pm
      Here's a controversial take on Phil.

      He was never actually that good for us.

      I can remember week in and week out screaming 'PASS THE F***ing BALL' at him and calling for him to be dropped because we played better without him. Actually the only time he got on a consistent run for us was the season we sold him in January and we've been flying since.

      Take him back on a loan if Barca agree to pay his wages. Wilson could get injured so we'll need someone else to warm the bench for the front 3.



      I wouldn't even have him back on loan but I agree with the rest of your post.

      Him leaving was one of the most important days in Liverpool's history. Without it we wouldn't have bought VVD or Alisson. If Coutinho fan boys want to see what 'world class' is just look at that pair.
      jabv
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3668: Jul 18, 2019 08:42:50 pm
      I think it's an undeniable fact that our squad would be improved by his presence. It's also a fact, I think, that he acted like a little pr**k to make his dream move happen, was disrespectful to the club, even.

      So if this whole story has any weight to it, I'd have to say from a practical point of view I'd take him on a loan, no doubt about it. From a more emotional point of view I'd say F**k him.

      And TBH I'm kinda stuck in between.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3669: Jul 18, 2019 09:01:19 pm
      I guess we will know how much he wants to come back by how he behaves at Barca over the next couple of weeks. When he wanted to leave us he was handing in transfer requests and contributing to the move financially so I assume he’d be pulling the same stunts if he wants out that badly?
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3670: Jul 18, 2019 10:19:14 pm
      I think it's an undeniable fact that our squad would be improved by his presence. It's also a fact, I think, that he acted like a little pr**k to make his dream move happen, was disrespectful to the club, even.

      So if this whole story has any weight to it, I'd have to say from a practical point of view I'd take him on a loan, no doubt about it. From a more emotional point of view I'd say f**k him.

      And TBH I'm kinda stuck in between.



      Is it an undeniable fact? For the European Champions and a side that posted 97 points in the league? Of course that amounts to us 'losing the league' in the likes of heimdall's account completely not catering for Man City's ridiculous 14 run win or whatever it was at the end of the season.

      Put Coutinho in that side last year and we'd have been further behind Man City such would be the top heavyness of the side in attack. There was an excellent balance to our side last season and we don't need to go back to some little nyaff who never wanted to be here in the first place and in retrospect achieved very little. He was an essential player for us at a time when we were building, but the reality is we've found better players and the overall quality of the first eleven far surpasses what he has to offer.
      heimdall
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3671: Jul 19, 2019 11:48:52 am

      Is it an undeniable fact? For the European Champions and a side that posted 97 points in the league? Of course that amounts to us 'losing the league' in the likes of heimdall's account completely not catering for Man City's ridiculous 14 run win or whatever it was at the end of the season.

      Put Coutinho in that side last year and we'd have been further behind Man City such would be the top heavyness of the side in attack. There was an excellent balance to our side last season and we don't need to go back to some little nyaff who never wanted to be here in the first place and in retrospect achieved very little. He was an essential player for us at a time when we were building, but the reality is we've found better players and the overall quality of the first eleven far surpasses what he has to offer.

      How about all our draws where we missed a bit of a spark, do you not remember the games where we were pretty flat but then out of no where Couts would step up and curl a lovely kick into the top corner because I do, when he was good he was very good and there is no doubt he would be an asset to us again.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3672: Jul 19, 2019 12:22:53 pm
      How about all our draws where we missed a bit of a spark, do you not remember the games where we were pretty flat but then out of no where Couts would step up and curl a lovely kick into the top corner because I do, when he was good he was very good and there is no doubt he would be an asset to us again.

      It’s all hypothetical and “ifs and buts”. The games we were flat in and drew we could have ended up losing with him or winning. The season would have been completely different from start to finish and it’s impossible to say what would or wouldn’t have happened with him. But, IMO, given we lost 1 game and got 97 points, I’m not so sure that would have been bettered if it was a different scenario from day 1. It’s very difficult to improve on near perfection and the games we were flat in, would honestly not have mattered one little bit if it wasn’t our rotten luck that there is another team at our level.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3673: Jul 19, 2019 01:08:11 pm
      in 6 season he only once scored more than 10 league goals (13) he simply isn't the player many portray him as he has throughout his career scored 1 in 4 . I don't see us spending a huge amount of money on him and Barca are not going to let him go cheaply. Before we look at any attacking players we will be concentrating on were we are thin on Cover and that isn't in the goal scoring department.
      heimdall
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3674: Jul 19, 2019 02:48:57 pm
      and the games we were flat in, would honestly not have mattered one little bit if it wasn’t our rotten luck that there is another team at our level.

      "and the games we were flat in, would honestly not have mattered one little bit if it wasn’t our rotten luck that there is another team at our level."
      Now who's delving into ifs and buts?

      Of course there is no guarantee that Couts would have made any difference, but the more creativity you have in the team the better, surely you must agree with this.

      BTW our issue last season was not the 1 loss, well not really, it was all the draws and also the fact that Citeh took the majority of points in the matches with us, for example if we'd won our home game we would have won the league, consider that, that is hwo fine the margins are at this level.
      I was watching the Man Utd-Liverpool game again yesterday and we were so sh*t in that game, hardly creating anything because Sadio and MO both had an off-day, if we'd had Couts available then I'm convinced it would have turned that game.
      heimdall
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3675: Jul 19, 2019 02:52:37 pm
      in 6 season he only once scored more than 10 league goals (13) he simply isn't the player many portray him as he has throughout his career scored 1 in 4 . I don't see us spending a huge amount of money on him and Barca are not going to let him go cheaply. Before we look at any attacking players we will be concentrating on were we are thin on Cover and that isn't in the goal scoring department.

      How many quality forwards to we have and how many are in the first XI? If the answer is 3 tell me again how we are not short in that area compared to Citeh? Should we also sell some of our midfielders, I mean they can't all play at the same time and they might get upset sitting on the bench, same with our extra defenders?
      What is the difference, in your mind, between having cover in defence/midfield and forwards, why are you so against strengthening our team, it's getting F***ing weird!
      waltonl4
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3676: Jul 19, 2019 03:24:16 pm
      How many quality forwards to we have and how many are in the first XI? If the answer is 3 tell me again how we are not short in that area compared to Citeh? Should we also sell some of our midfielders, I mean they can't all play at the same time and they might get upset sitting on the bench, same with our extra defenders?
      What is the difference, in your mind, between having cover in defence/midfield and forwards, why are you so against strengthening our team, it's getting f**king weird!

      give it a rest will you your trying to replay games having casting Couthino as the hero its a bit weird for sure. The team is already stronger we have OX, Brewster and we will also have Joe back and Naby who will be far more ready for the season ahead. Cover is only likely to be for Robbo and if Mignolet leaves but keep it up you'll have Couthino saving penalties next.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3677: Jul 19, 2019 03:34:35 pm
      "and the games we were flat in, would honestly not have mattered one little bit if it wasn’t our rotten luck that there is another team at our level."
      Now who's delving into ifs and buts?

      I’m not delving into anything. My point was it’s never happened before that a team who got as many points as we did, didn’t win the league. Highlighting our bad luck that the year we get such a points tally, another team bettered it. So there really isn’t any delving into anything.


      BTW our issue last season was not the 1 loss, well not really, it was all the draws and also the fact that Citeh took the majority of points in the matches with us,

      Of course the 1 loss was the issue, providing everything went the same way after that defeat, we’d have won the league with anything other than a defeat. You’ve said yourself that it’s largely because City took the majority of points in the head to head. Ultimately we lost 1 game and that was to the team that won the league so credit where credit is due. The draws wouldn’t have been an issue if we’d won or even drawn that game if it all went the same way. If we had won or drawn that game and City missed out by a point or two, they would be looking at their 4 or 5 losses as the reason they missed out. Whether it’s draws or defeats that leads to a team missing out doesn’t really make a difference because ultimately, anything other than a win should be looked at as not good enough. If we’d have won the league on the last day then all them draws people moan about, people would be celebrating now because we’d have won the league despite winning less games. Funny old game.

      But like I said it’s all hypothetical. There really isn’t too much point looking into the games we drew, we need to be looking into how City managed to take more points than us in the head to head because ultimately, that was the difference between us.

       
      I was watching the Man Utd-Liverpool game again yesterday and we were so sh*t in that game, hardly creating anything because Sadio and MO both had an off-day, if we'd had Couts available then I'm convinced it would have turned that game.

      Not so convinced myself given how we struggled against them in recent years when we had Coutinho. He could have played this time and we could have lost, we literally we never know. One of the reasons I try not to look too much into past results because there is so many different potential scenario if this was different, or that was different.
      « Last Edit: Jul 19, 2019 03:38:42 pm by 7-King Kenny-7 »
      heimdall
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3678: Jul 19, 2019 03:34:52 pm
      give it a rest will you your trying to replay games having casting Couthino as the hero its a bit weird for sure. The team is already stronger we have OX, Brewster and we will also have Joe back and Naby who will be far more ready for the season ahead. Cover is only likely to be for Robbo and if Mignolet leaves but keep it up you'll have Couthino saving penalties next.

      Try answering my question, how many quality forwards do we have in the squad? How many normally line up in the first XI? If its the same answer then how can you say there is no need for any cover for the forwards when you are so excited at having extra cover for the midfield?
      BTW By Joe do you mean sicknote Lallana, if so you're in for a disappointing season, if he plays more than 5 games for us I'd be amazed.
      heimdall
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      Re: Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool > FC Barcelona)
      Reply #3679: Jul 19, 2019 03:43:17 pm
      I’m not delving into anything. My point was it’s never happened before that a team who got as many points as we did, didn’t win the league. Highlighting our bad luck that the year we get such a points tally, another team bettered it. So there really isn’t any delving into anything.


      Of course the 1 loss was the issue, providing everything went the same way after that defeat, we’d have won the league with anything other than a defeat. You’ve said yourself that it’s largely because City took the majority of points in the head to head. Ultimately we lost 1 game and that was to the team that won the league so credit where credit is due. The draws wouldn’t have been an issue if we’d won or even drawn that game if it all went the same way.

      But like I said it’s all hypothetical. There really isn’t too much point looking into the games we drew, we need to be looking into how City managed to take more points than us in the head to head because ultimately, that was the difference between us.

       
      Not so convinced myself given how we struggled against them in recent years when we had Coutinho. He could have played this time and we could have lost, we literally we never know. One of the reasons I try not to look too much into past results because there is so many different potential scenario if this was different, or that was different.

      So in your opinion its the 1 loss that cost us despite Citeh losing more times, remind me please how many Citeh drew compared to us and tell me how it wasn't a factor? From my point of view IF we had beaten Leicester and West Ham instead of drawing then there is no way Citeh would have got enough of a sniff to go on a 14 game charge but it is of course all hypothetical.

      As for your point about us struggling against Manure even whilst we had Coutinho you are comparing 2 different things, I want you to consider Coutinho in the side we currently have, not the side we had, if you do that do you still think he couldn't provide that extra option, that extra bit of magic which he did on so many occasions.

      I think Countinho could be the missing link in this side but even if not him we need an extra top quality forward because if we go into next season without replacing Sturridge then its a big mistake, that is UNLESS Brewster has the same instant impact as Owen, Fowler and Sterling did

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