Physicality, what's the answer in overcoming it?

Against a physical side you have to do one of two things

a) win the first ball (or at the least make sure the attacker has practically no chance of finding a team mate or getting a header away at goal)

or

b) make sure the second ball is yours

Yesterday we weren't equipped to deal with either. Coates and Skrtel lost every header. Allen and Henderson didn't anticipate any knock downs nor did they have to strength to deal with the Oldham players who tried to pick up on the loose balls. If we'd gone with Lucas in the middle, I think we would have won that.

And I would definitely put a top class CB high up on the list for the summer.

Part of the answer needs to be the referees.  Cliff Byrne should have seen red for his elbow/forearm to Sturridge's head after the play was over.  Lucky boy that the ref missed that one.  Also, the build up to their 2nd goal started after a clear foul on Sturridge near the half way line when one of their defenders came through the back of Sturridge. 

Go back to the Stoke game a few months ago when Huth stamped on Suarez's chest.  Should have been off, but didn't even see yellow. 

We clearly need some additional steel in midfield to help us keep from being bullied out of games, but some of the blame needs to be directed at the refs.  Hate to blame the refs as we did not play particularly well, but there is no excuse for some of the missed calls yesterday....

Part of the answer needs to be the referees.  Cliff Byrne should have seen red for his elbow/forearm to Sturridge's head after the play was over.  Lucky boy that the ref missed that one.  Also, the build up to their 2nd goal started after a clear foul on Sturridge near the half way line when one of their defenders came through the back of Sturridge. 

Go back to the Stoke game a few months ago when Huth stamped on Suarez's chest.  Should have been off, but didn't even see yellow. 

We clearly need some additional steel in midfield to help us keep from being bullied out of games, but some of the blame needs to be directed at the refs.  Hate to blame the refs as we did not play particularly well, but their is no excuse for some of the missed calls yesterday....

I think you make an excellent point that kind of aligns with my views on this subject. From a Dutch point of view I''m inclined to say that you can outsmart and outskill physicality. But the fact is that it's different in the Premier League than it is in the Primera Division or Eredivisie as far as refereeing goes, more physicality is allowed in English football and as a result it's harder to outsmart and outskill it I think.

Id scour the globe for a top defensive coach and get him on board. We can have all the Suarez and Gerrards in the world if your bback 4 (and keeper) are dodgy you wont go far 

This years Man United begs to differ.

I would have thought that most people who've watched many of our matches this season would agree that when teams sit off us and turn it into a football match, we're a pretty good side. When though teams get after us, snap at us a bit, don't let us play it out from the back, load it into the box and generally play with a bit of physicality, we are generally found wanting.

 So what is the answer, and do we need one?

Part of the answer is not to change a winning team. Another part is to treat every game the same, whether it's Arsenal or Oldham. How is a team supposed to gel as a unit when there are mass changes made every couple of games? How does losing to a pub side benefit fringe players? It doesn't.

Just go onto the pitch, and let the goals show your superiority.

Look at Lucas in stature. Nothing special. Yet he gives as good as he gets with most big strong players he comes up against. I remember a particular game against City where Yaya Toure, who had been in excellent form, didn't get past him once.

If all our players applied themselves like he does, we'd be unstoppable.

The key is moderation - to use an equine analogy Sundays team was full of colts. The problem was we were competing against fully grown working horses who could pull a bigger load for longer.

That we looked better and could run faster in a straight line without a plough attached didn't matter.

JD is right (I believe) if we are going to really focus on development of an entire young side at the same this is going to happen from time to time.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21266402

Buy Coutinho... as we have done.

@ 5ft 6ins he can run through their legs .

We either need to double mark the physical threat with someone in front and someone behind or have someone behind but make sure we win the second ball. We need to be more aggressive against these physical teams instead of laying down like we have done some many times this season.

Whether we need to bring someone in in the summer to add aggression and physicality or it can be instilled in the players that we have at the moment, I'm not sure. It is something of a worry that we have such an obvious weakness though.

Look at Lucas in stature. Nothing special. Yet he gives as good as he gets with most big strong players he comes up against. I remember a particular game against City where Yaya Toure, who had been in excellent form, didn't get past him once.

If all our players applied themselves like he does, we'd be unstoppable.

Like Mascherano, he isn't massive or very tall yet his aggression really was unmatched. We just need someone with his levels of aggression and want to put a tackle in.

Players just need to roll up their sleeves and grow some balls to be honest.

Take Hendo and Allen against Oldham they were'nt up for a fight, Skrtel got clattered a few times but still contested every single challenge he could and didn't go into hiding.

Yep ye dont have to be 6'6 to be physical. Some of footballs toughest most hardest players were under 6 foot.

Its having a set of balls and knowing how to use your body and strenght at times not all about height and build..

Souness was no giant show me a more physical player then him! 

Players just need to roll up their sleeves and grow some balls to be honest.

To grow them taws they need to feel pain and know it holds no fear. I think you said you done a bit of boxing Blud as did I at a young age. My 'coach' put us in with someone who would let us feel pain; learn us to take a hit, know what it's like and realise pain is fleeting and easily overcome.

Some of these jessies just need to feel pain... a big boot in the ballbag will suffice. 

Yup BBB its in the Irish blood, my grandfather was of pure Irish blood, big boxer back in the day and became a boxing coach running a boxing academy, I had no choice I was frog marched there nearly every night as a young un.

He used to do the same with me maten put me in the ring with much bigger lads than myself and litterally let them knock F**k out of me whilst he called me all the pansy's under the sun.

He was a queer old f**ker ha.

Those who say that Agger and Skrtel are overrated are simply some small b**ches. Many of us thought they were the best partnership of the EPL when Kenny was here and today they're average? Doesn't it seem awkward? They haven't been as good as last season by they are still these good CBs we knpw who are real fighters and I'm never afraid of any striker in this league when I know there's Agger in the team: their form has not always been good but they are still class CBs.

As for the problem of physicality, it's mainly due to Lucas' form. Last season when Lucas was in form we were so solid at the back. Lucas broke whatever came to his way and the CBs just needed to defend less often than actually. At that time we had Spearing playing! *he defends well but he's not a beast. Lucas did the big part. Today we have a new system/formation and Lucas is still not full fit, the solution would have been signing a DM but for now we must just improve our pressing game until THE BOSS returns to full fitness.

until THE BOSS returns to full fitness.

Doesn't matter how fit Springsteen is, can't see Rodgers throwing him into our midfield, he's a tad too old.

Doesn't matter how fit Springsteen is, can't see Rodgers throwing him into our midfield, he's a tad too old.

Maybe it's just me, but I can't stand Springsteen. Think he's such a douchebag, personally. (awaits abuse)

Those who say that Agger and Skrtel are overrated are simply some small b**ches. Many of us thought they were the best partnership of the EPL when Kenny was here and today they're average? Doesn't it seem awkward? They haven't been as good as last season by they are still these good CBs we knpw who are real fighters and I'm never afraid of any striker in this league when I know there's Agger in the team: their form has not always been good but they are still class CBs.

As for the problem of physicality, it's mainly due to Lucas' form. Last season when Lucas was in form we were so solid at the back. Lucas broke whatever came to his way and the CBs just needed to defend less often than actually. At that time we had Spearing playing! *he defends well but he's not a beast. Lucas did the big part. Today we have a new system/formation and Lucas is still not full fit, the solution would have been signing a DM but for now we must just improve our pressing game until THE BOSS returns to full fitness.

Ease up on Sterling please. At least he's got a pair of balls and you'd never see him sh*t out of a tackle. Perhaps if we gave Allen some of his DNA he'd stop filling his nappy every time he was in the vicinity of a 50-50 challenge.

Ease up on Sterling please. At least he's got a pair of balls and you'd never see him sh*t out of a tackle. Perhaps if we gave Allen some of his DNA he'd stop filling his nappy every time he was in the vicinity of a 50-50 challenge.

Could some be passed on to Downing too!!

Could some be passed on to Downing too!!

It would be nice but @hardcoresoldier, I meant that SPEARING who is average was the player alongside Lucas and still our defense was protected very well and I thinkit was mainly due to Lucas. I'm not discrediting Spearo but Lucas was such a Boss at that moment(he is still).

BRING BACK KIRGYAKOS

I worshipped him as the last greek god.

he was sold to accomodate coates, aye. wish we still had him. the big greek. didn't do much at wolfsberg (or was it bremen) or at sunderland when he was taken on loan.. wonder where he is now.

When we get Diakite from Lazio strikers will piss themselves with fear.

Before some criticise the boss for his defensive tactics, look in to his comments and his actions and you'll see he is well aware of what we need.

Just need some time.

Agree we need some bullies though. Mo Diame would be terrific back up. Shame we never tried to get him when he left Wigan. I think Red5man and I wanted that one to happen. However 3.5m release clause is dirt cheap. I'd snap him up tomorrow if I could.

Big Andy coming back will help. BR may not rate him but I think he's a brilliant player and can play many styles. He has a great first touch and movement to fit in with BRs system. Doubt we'll see him back in our red though.

Those 3 could really help us push on and challenge more. Or at least players of the same affect.