Liverpool 0-2 West Brom: In-Game and Post Match Grumbling

I'd have much more respect for people if they would just admit it and move on. I agree with you though, all of the innuendo and posturing is what gets annoying.

 Very very sad to see. I've got untold stick over the years for the fact that I said I thought it was the right time to get rid of Rafa. At least I was honest though, I've always been more than happy to discuss my feelings with anybody who wanted to listen. I've never hidden behind any pretence, I've always been 100% open about the way I see it. Even when he's landed plum jobs since, I've always been quick to remind everyone before they've played any matches that in my view he's overrated as a manager, and that if he does well he's effectively proving me 100% wrong. I've never hidden, I prefer to tell it like it is. Not like some people with our current manager, that's not the Liverpool way to snipe, to go home early, to look for an excuse to put the boot in.

 And to think sopme of them lecture us about not being "from the city" and not "going the game". Supporters? I've sh*t em. 

Yep, though to play devils advocate you put the blame on Kenny and now appear to be giving Brendan a bit of a get out here, Diego.

Not sure if I get what you mean there.

I'm not blaming Kenny for anything.

But because we're going through a transformation in terms of style, tactics, gameplan, everything bad that happens to our team is blamed on this elusive notion we call "THE SYSTEM".

Well, is it really a problem of the system, playing well, dominating the game, creating chances, just to lose for a team that creates very little?

If the new system is to blame, then why did it happen last season (ie, with the 'old' system)?

That's all I'm saying. I'm not putting the blame on anyone.

I'm only questioning why the first reaction to this type of performance/result last season was saying "THE PLAYERS LET KENNY DOWN", and this season it's a "TACTICAL PROBLEM RODGERS MUST SOLVE". The problem is the same though.

The difference is that we had a club legend as manager and now we've got a young fella in his place. I quite expect different reactions to be honest but I'd like people to think a bit better about that.

I agree Diego.  Our inconsistent performances and profligacy in front of goal are hardly new problems to our team under BR.  We had these same problems last season under Kenny, before that during Roy's brief stint, and even before that during Rafa's final season in charge.  Truth be told, we haven't really been a stellar goal scoring team in recent memory (08-09 season aside).  What made us a dangerous side under Rafa was our defensive consistency and counter attacking potency. 

I think BR has a good set of tactical ideals, and if we can get the right players for the "system" then we will be able to break down well organized defenses more regularly.  However, at the moment we simply don't have the necessary creative spark in the final 3rd (other than Suarez).  We are relying on Downing and Hendo as our outside midfielders, and while they have been performing better than last season, they are still not of the quality required to push for the top 4 let alone a league title.  The same could be said about a few of our other players as well.  Unfortunately, we just do not have enough star quality in our side to compensate for our over abundance of average players. 

The good news is that many of them (Allen, Suso, Sterling, Kelly, Borini, Coutinho, Hendo, Shelvey, etc) have age on their side and could still develop into quality players.....

The body language of many if not all the players do not seems right. I would say the whole team played badly, is there an issue or something affecting their morale or something brewing behind the scene?

I hate to say this but for being honest I'd say BR could have given Suarez too much of a freedom to roam, when Suarez was in possession of the ball everything is at random after that, there's no effective link up play between him and others in the box while the rest stood and ball watch, hoping something would happen. When Suarez manages to dribble the ball into the box, he never looked up where others were, or don't bother to and went on to try and dribble the ball into goal, even from impossible positions and after a bad miss he can only offer to say sorry after that. Either he knew someone was in better position to score or he's being greedy or both. This would give the impression to the others in the box not to expect a pass from Suarez, never mind running into favorable scoring positions.

The opposite is also  true, when someone else was in possession of the ball and trying to make something happen, Suarez could be anywhere inside or outside the box, even near to the corner flag. I've criticised Downing time and again even to the extend of ridiculing him, but when I analyze the games closer I won't continue to put blame onto him, he has done what he is expected to do, brought the ball as high up the pitch as possible to the edge of the opposition box as a winger, what did he do next with the ball? I'm sure he doesn't even know what to do except whipping it  into the box and hope for the best because there's no game plan on movement of players and how to attack the opposition box, positioning of players and out manouvre the opposition defence into submission.

In summary, we simply don't know what to do with the ball at the edge of the opposition box, everyting happens after that will be at random. Gone were the days where Dalglish, Rush and a few others linked up so effectively and brought the ball into the box in blazing pace and they just run rings around defenders, make themselves available to receive a pass in favorable scoring positions. Dalglish and Rush and others were so commanding inside the opposition box.

When I look at this game against our opening game, nothing has changed, only the venue. An effective attacking game plan, that's what I hope BR will work on starting this very moment.

Jose Enrique was probably the worst player for us tonight. He is so left footed its shocking. That thing he always dose when he spins, can he not just use his right now and again? Not that anybody particulary had a good game. It say's a lot when Downing is your stand out performer but he was the best of a bad bunch tonight.

I thought the decision to substitute both Henderson and Downing was a poor one by Rodgers. Henderson was offering us a bit of running and pace in what was a flat midfield. Once he and Downing went off we had no legs. Sterling was an option down the flanks but no final ball or shot on goal. Too all very often no end product from him im afraid.

Reina didnt exactly cover himself in glory once again for the visitor's 2nd. I don't know what has happend to him but he dose not look like the keeper we had 3 or 4 seasons ago. It seems he has become complacent. Something not helped by the fact he has a poor understudy in Jones. Not exactly pushing for a starting berth now is he? We need to strengthen in that area in the summer.

I know it's just one of those things but ifGerrard would have just slotted that pen we would have won the game. It's fine margins once again but I felt from the off we would struggle to score tonight. If we would have put 1 away we would have won comfortably but once again it wasnt to be.

We are I am afraid a very average team at present

Bitterly disappointed. But if you don't put pressure on by scoring a goal then sh*t like this will happen.

What really disappointed me about this game was the dire control and 1st touch by our major players. Suarez, who i believe had his worst match for a long time, Johnson, and Enrique were the major culprits. It was an off performance from the start and never got better. Hopefully 2 wins in next 2 games will help get sooth the eye ache that that performance was.

Why is no one questioning Reina? His feet from corners seem permantly rooted to the floor and doesn't seem willing to command his box and either catch incoming corners or at least punch them?

Agree with you  Mick.

I too called for Rafa's time being up but regrettably we have bumped our way through Woy to Kenny to Rogers.

I wont hide behind anything. Brendan is not a Villa Boas.

Brendan sold the vision for the "group" and has all the sound bites.



Unfortunately he is simply technically inept.

As with my previous posts.. i think BR is just inexperienced.  It is his first time at a truly big club with massive expectations.  It is not ok to purely stay in the premier league or to be middle of the pack... We need to win things!

however, I've been looking at his starting XI over the season, and i can see he is learning.  His substitute strategy has still much to improve but i liked his starting XI today.  Yes that meant I liked Shelvy starting... I was thinking with his current form both in practice and his time in england, he would be so hungry to prove himself.  Shelvy really let himself, us and BR down.  his back four were solid picks... with the current form, he had put out in his mind his strongest XI... unfortunately some players just didnt show up.  but all in all... I think BR is trending the right path... lets how FSG is a bit more patient with him... and us as fans as well.  BR's system didnt really fail today.... we were unlucky and some of our players were just horrid.  I dont think i've ever seen a game where we had so many garbage passes like that.

that said... BR needs to work on his subs... questionable to say the least.   

that said, lets hope our team redeems themselves come Thursday...

 When Stevie stepped up to take the penalty I said to my wife I had a feeling that he was going to miss it  and really there was no power in it whatsoever.The omly way the goalie would of missed it is if he dived the wrong way.She also made an interesting comment about Stevie,she thinks he should retire with Carra at the end of the season,she thought he looked old and had lost interest.

Mick, the way some folks are talking about Clark I can't believe West Brom isn't challenging for the title right now.

well to be fair to clark, imo a manager can only do so much magic.  A good manager can take his squad and move it a few places up in the table... ultimately his squad needs to start off at a certain calibre to challenge for the title.  Right now, in the prem league, I only see 3 teams with that calibre of players... manure, chelski and man city.  the strongest manager will be able to motivate enough and guide his team to success. 

however, I would still take BR over clark.  yes WBA won today. but if i had to watch that kind of playstyle every week... i would be bored to death.  At least we get some games where the Reds were truly fantastic....

but BR Please please please lets get some consistency shall we? and please stop with the same garbage you say in your post game interview after our humiliating losses.  Call it what it is... we stunk, you messed up on the subs and how we need to look to thursday.   broken records...

Yeah Rodgers is responsible for the missed penalty
and the brilliant form of Foster
and for players like Agger and Shelvey who looked like basketball players playing football
and for players passing to the audience (or what they call misplaced passes)
and for Borini who was brilliant last year but got the Liverpool-syndrome when he signed (like Hendo, Downing, Carroll, etc)
and for lack of desire and aggressiveness
and most importantly, for taking the King's job!

To say he made mistakes, that's fine for me (the only change I would've made is to start Sterling in place of Shelvey)
But to say he cost us the game, that's really over the top

Agger was shocking tonight, and was to blame for both goals. He seriously needs to take a long hard look at himself because he seems to have lost a yard of pace – and the ability to defend looks alien to him. Keeps losing his man in the box, and Lukaku went passed him like diarrhoea down a greasy colon. On top of that, when Enrique plays so poorly, and Johnson plays his worse game for us, you can’t expect much from a game. Ironic isn’t it that our best defender is 35 years of age and retiring. We’re in trouble, because right now, I’d say on that showing, we need a brand new back four. Johnson was that bad, I think he’s ill and would not be surprised if he’s coming down with something. He looked shell shocked out there

No exaggeration, in all my years of supporting Liverpool, that result hurt, and it was one of the most sickening. We are missing that “screw you - balls to the wall - they shall not pass” mentality. We need men, not over paid fairies. Next game I want Tommy Smith to give the team talk.

3 home wins on the bounce, scoring 12 and conceding 0. Outplaying Arsenal and the Champions Man City at their grounds, and we put in a performance like that!? Borini’s miss, Gerrard’s penalty miss, even though it was a good save, it wasn’t struck hard enough. And we can’t defend set pieces anymore.

90 minutes to ruin not only our season, but all the hard work over the last 8 weeks. How many misplaced passes? And what’s with the total lack of urgency? Play it from the back by all means, but play it with conviction. Even the crowd were getting frustrated.

Even Suarez was poor today, and don’t get me started on Shelvey, I’ll go on record now, and say he should not play for us again, because he wasn’t poor – he was nothing. Sunken shoulders, sulking face, jog on son! And take your attitude with you.

But we always do this. Does this look familiar to anyone? Just when we think we’ve turned the corner – we self destruct.

So we lose Sturridge – one player. So what do you do? Stick Borini up there and keep the system that’s worked so well. What’s the gaffer do? Play Shelvey and completely re-work the set up. Because we lost one player? Sorry but, isn’t that what back up strikers are supposed to do? Step in? If Borini was short on confidence, he’s got none now. Boss got it wrong from the start today. Yes we missed Sturridge tonight, but screw me with a cactus, that performance was totally inept.

Shelvey, Agger, Enrique, Johnson, I honestly think should be suspended a week’s wages.

There’s a huge difference between bossing possession and dominating the opposition, compared to the opposition sitting back, letting you play, and then picking you off. We need to learn the difference. And quick.

WBA 5 v 0 LFC

Goodnight

The problem with Agger is that he is sitting there feeling all cozy with no competition for his place at all knowing that he will start every game.

Very disappointing result.

I understand the anger on here but for me the problem lies with the lack of quality competition in the squad. Too many players know no matter how they perform that they will be still in the team for the next game. Even when players are given a chance most of them are just not good enough to take it.

We can blame Brendan, we can blame tactics, we can blame individual errors, but for me the truth is that we just don't have enough quality in the squad. Yes, like most average sides we can raise our game on the big occasion, but week in week out the truth becomes apparent when you look at the league table.

We have defenders that when allowed to play in their comfort zone and are well protected by the midfield look good, but as soon as the midfield cover is gone struggle to cope and show their defensive limitations. Time after time this (and last) season our opponents have been scoring at an incredible ratio of goals to chances, while we struggle to convert a large number of chances into goals match after match.

Yes this season Suarez has helped alleviate the problem, and the signing of Sturridge has given us more hope, but unless or until we bring in more quality players I see plenty more bad days to come.

 

   

 

Very disappointing result.

I understand the anger on here but for me the problem lies with the lack of quality competition in the squad. Too many players know no matter how they perform that they will be still in the team for the next game. Even when players are given a chance most of them are just not good enough to take it.

We can blame Brendan, we can blame tactics, we can blame individual errors, but for me the truth is that we just don't have enough quality in the squad. Yes, like most average sides we can raise our game on the big occasion, but week in week out the truth becomes apparent when you look at the league table.

We have defenders that when allowed to play in their comfort zone and are well protected by the midfield look good, but as soon as the midfield cover is gone struggle to cope and show their defensive limitations. Time after time this (and last) season our opponents have been scoring at an incredible ratio of goals to chances, while we struggle to convert a large number of chances into goals match after match.

Yes this season Suarez has helped alleviate the problem, and the signing of Sturridge has given us more hope, but unless or until we bring in more quality players I see plenty more bad days to come.

 

   

 

eggs-actly

That goes for Agger, Skrtel and Johnson. One of the things I loved about Rafa (not trying to start a rafa debate) that he always had 2 or 3 players for every position, I remember once we had 3 senior right backs!

Yet again, lion share of possession and not being clinical enough with it

I would rather play poorly and scrape a 1-0 of the back of Suarez's ar*e than have 'the group' dominate possession and get f*** all for it

Stats dont lie - last 3 games, 2 points.

Hope FSG have budgeted for no European football next year, because we will not finish top5 / top 6 to get it

That was simply very poor...from the back to the front
How did we manage to create 25 shots against 4 from WBA yet lose the game 2-0? My problem with this performance was the urgency...we had it against Arsenal and Man City, but last night it looked like we suffered from a hangover coz it looked like nobody could be bothered and that they thought the result would come automatically.
Usually during the first 60mins of our matches you can tell what the outcome will be and when Gerrard missed the penalty, i knew the game would somehow be lost.

I see alot of bashing of our defence etc. but the whole team lacked any sort of intensity. They looked like a team who doesnt believe that the top 4 can be achieved. Screw tactics, systems or even world class players... give me players with desire and passion anyday. We need a team of Carra's until the end of the season in order to salvage something.

Ive been reading some of the posts on the pre match thread.

There was so much expectation.
So many of us were up for this off the back of the City draw. 
We all thought that we had found our feet and would get revenge for being caught cold at the opening of the season.

We were still caught cold and we are over half way through the season.

Oldham revisited ... and I feel there are going to be many more groundhog days before the season is out.

Lucas my motm. Gerrard and Lucas are the only two that can hold their heads up.

Thought Downing done well too. Created 4 or 5 chances for us

Oldham revisited ... and I feel there are going to be many more groundhog days before the season is out.

Yup, our current form dictates it, too inconsistent to keep a good run and get results. Even with our decent performances against Man City and Arsenal we still ended up losing the lead against them and ended up with 1 point each game. 2 points in the last 3 games is just not good enough irrespective of our performances, in the end results matter and we aren't getting any

You know what? When I think about it, I think Downing was the best. Lucas was great but Downing was so good at making chances and played a heap of good balls.

Last Night .
Stevie.

Someone mentioned about his disposition last night v West Brom.

Stevie has just seen his pal JC decide to hang up his boots and half of the Liverpool DNA will be lost in May.

This is obviously going to make Stevie refocus on himself. His own physical limitations that are creeping up .

More importantly now is the mental.

I think Stevie who is obviously much closer to the action than we are has come to the conclusion that BR is in place until 2015.

He knows FSG wont wedge out mega bucks to terminate Rogers and will probably allow another two and a half years of this mediocrity to continue.

Stevie's dream to win the Premier League aint going to happen any time soon. I think he knows that the trophies he has lifted is just that.

Not much chance of more .....or more importantly ...... the one he wants.

Thing is.
With Stevie.
He is a leader and will try not to let it show.