Trending Topics

      Next match: v LFC [League Cup] Tue 17th Dec @ 7:45 pm
      Villa Park

      Today is the 15th of December and on this date LFC's match record is P23 W13 D5 L5

      Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts

      Read 27933 times
      0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
      crouchinho
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 42,391 posts | 2569 
      • TU TA LOUCO? FILHO DA PUTA!
      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #700: Feb 23, 2013 07:07:45 am
      Explained way better than I could....

      Yeah but we all know your opinion on Glen.. You just eased off him for a while....

      Not trying to have a dig but I do recall you banging on about how sh*te Glen was for ages... Even tho your opinions on him don't seem to be backed by many..

      The boy is quality... just a few shitty recent games lad.. (WBA = worst I've seen him play).

      How you speak of him really does confuse me?

      What was his longest period of consistency? A month?

      If Martin gets fit and back in the team, Glen won't play right back unless Kelly gets injured. Happy to put that out there.
      BKLFC
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
      • ****

      • 822 posts |
      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #701: Feb 23, 2013 07:14:35 am
      but there is no better a feeling than having that pride of our own fan base fully restored as a result of that symphony of noise.

      Ditto.  Thanks for the sea of red for bringing back a special night for me to have witnessed and felt again for a long time.  Just hope that this continues and the next match at Anfield will produce half of what was shown,  ifso Reds have a humongous chance of winning.   Clearly we are at our best with the Kop in full flow.
      BKLFC
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
      • ****

      • 822 posts |
      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #702: Feb 23, 2013 07:21:24 am
      A good post 6stringer. Keeping Suarez is crucial to how we progress. This in fact just highlights how important it is we get this Summer right. Suarez will want assurances and he is entitled to know what the intention is here as he prepares to give us his best years. If we lose Suarez it would set us back again and that's the last thing we need.
      Yeah just saw that photo in this morning's Kathmandu Post.   :f_wah:

      Bring on next game I fully expect whoever is in 4th position in the EPL to shi* themselves.  Unbeaten run till the end of season.  Not even draw.  Is it possible?  Game by Game I expect to win.  Bring it game at a time.
      redkop63
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 6,890 posts | 455 
      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #703: Feb 23, 2013 07:28:40 am
      Your point? Him being a defender is no excuse to not knowing how to cross a ball. Excuse me, but me not being English maybe makes me say stupid things. In my country, we have "baby football", from 3 to 12, then youth system, and pretty much every player that reaches first division can hit a decent cross (or at least on consistent basis). This past year, most of our crosses have been at knee height or very, very past the box. Yes we had some good ones, and some fantastic ones, but the majority...Even Andy had to get on his knees to hit a ball!



      Not sure what's your point either. The way you put, I would imply that the system that you have in your country is of such efficiency that everyone will be able to deliver quality crosses into the box right from the goalkeeper to the striker. But in reality, it will not be the case, Johnson is a defender and his main task is to CLEAR the dangerous crosses coming into our box, not Delivering crosses into the the opposition box. Of course, I can accept some kind of misshit, overhit or underhit crosses from Glen but to do it consistently over the duration of the game is unacceptable. So, who's fault and who will be responsible for that? More importantly who carries a greater responsibility to get it right? Will it be Glen or the coach, or both?

      My opinion, both,  the coach carries a greater responsibility. Glen never asked to be played in that position, the coach asked him to play as a wing back, that's what he has done and he even delivered crosses as what is expected of him, unfortunately most of the crosses were of not much use. Hence, the coach job is to tailor an effective traning programme for Glen and to improve on that. But week after week we sees the same quality of crosses from Glen. Having said that, I'm not protecting Glen, he should have realised that his crosses were getting nowhere and ineffective and should have put in extra hours to improve on that. I don't see any improvement which led me to believe, both Glen and the coach don't bother.

      Let's say we get Pepe to play as a striker, can we expect Pepe to be able to strike the ball as good as Stevie or Suarez but yes I'm sure he does learn  how to strike a ball in the junior league, academy to the senior league etc. How well he strikes the ball depends on whether he puts in the extra hours in training or whether there's a special programme for him. We can't expect to turn him from a world class keeper into a world class striker without special training programmes. The same goes for Glen. 

      By the way, I'm no English either and hope that both of us are not talking stupidly.

      KateMKD_Red
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 3,171 posts | 503 
      • At the end of the storm, there’s a golden sky.
      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #704: Feb 23, 2013 12:13:47 pm
      Does anyone have links for some extended highlights from the match? Missed it and can't find anything except for the goals.
      s@int
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 14,989 posts | 2282 
      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #705: Feb 23, 2013 12:24:48 pm
      Does anyone have links for some extended highlights from the match? Missed it and can't find anything except for the goals.

      http://www.itv.com/sport/football/article/2013-02-21/match-report-and-highlights-liverpool-3-1-zenit/

      Only just over 4 mins so hardly extended highlights
      Diego LFC
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 18,887 posts | 2468 
      • Sempre Liverpool
      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #706: Feb 23, 2013 12:43:26 pm
      he is a liability because he doesn't cover his tracks

      The idea of a player having to cover for himself is a bit funny, and an usual misconception.

      He is an awful crosser. I'd be very intrigued to see his % of complete crosses.

      And Diego, he is "the best right back in the country". That means he would have to be great at both ends. And he isn't.

      No fullback is. People love to rave about Cafu, who played 3 World Cup finals in a row, and Roberto Carlos, once elected 3rd best player in the world, but both were suspect at the back because their task wasn't defending first, but actually providing width in attack.

      I agree Johnson isn't the best crosser of the ball, but Kelly is actually worse (not to mention he gets in crossing positions even less).
      Johnson's defensive stats are better than that of Zabaleta's as well.

      Zabaleta, by the way, is the typical underrated player who became overrated. A bit like Makelele was. Zabaleta isn't that good, but it's certainly much easier for a mediocre player like him to look good when, despite playing for a team with Aguero, Dzeko, Silva and others upfront, he also has the protection of at least 2 defensive midfielders (sometimes 3) every game.
      Chico Banderas
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 2,070 posts | 150 
      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #707: Feb 23, 2013 12:59:25 pm
      The idea of a player having to cover for himself is a bit funny, and an usual misconception.

      No fullback is. People love to rave about Cafu, who played 3 World Cup finals in a row, and Roberto Carlos, once elected 3rd best player in the world, but both were suspect at the back because their task wasn't defending first, but actually providing width in attack.

      I agree Johnson isn't the best crosser of the ball, but Kelly is actually worse (not to mention he gets in crossing positions even less).
      Johnson's defensive stats are better than that of Zabaleta's as well.

      Zabaleta, by the way, is the typical underrated player who became overrated. A bit like Makelele was. Zabaleta isn't that good, but it's certainly much easier for a mediocre player like him to look good when, despite playing for a team with Aguero, Dzeko, Silva and others upfront, he also has the protection of at least 2 defensive midfielders (sometimes 3) every game.



      So true..lolol


      Makalele became the "breaker-upper" poster boy..;D.. Then all the over the top world class compliments followed..
      scouse_jatt
      • Forum Kevin Keegan
      • ***

      • 343 posts | 11 
      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #708: Feb 23, 2013 04:02:56 pm
      Makelele wasn't overrated, he was one of the best DMs in world football. Even Gerrard said he's the toughest midfielder he's ever played against
      chats
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 22,373 posts | 856 
      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #709: Feb 23, 2013 04:56:01 pm
      Makelele was a top, top player. Don't know what you're on about really!
      Diego LFC
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 18,887 posts | 2468 
      • Sempre Liverpool
      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #710: Feb 24, 2013 01:39:34 am
      Makelele was a very good defensive midfielder, but it took time for him to be recognized. He left Madrid through the back door, with their president saying he wasn't going to be missed. Then he signed for Chelsea, did extremely well there, in particular with Mourinho defensive, counter attacking tactics, and all of a sudden he was world class and all that. The fact he was so harshly treated at Real made his contribution to Chelsea be extremely overrated. He was very good at what he did, but very limited as well. It's all forgotten now and he got a reputation way bigger than his talent.
      Fowler#23
      • Forum Ian Callaghan
      • ****

      • 863 posts | 37 
      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #711: Feb 24, 2013 05:16:29 pm
      Absolutely laughable the negative comments made here regarding Makelele. He didn't become 'world class and all that' when he signed for Chelsea, he became the best anchorman for a long period of time once he changed his game in a very good Celta Vigo team. This was seen by the very best team in the world and he was signed to compliment the offensive 'Galacticos', it's a measure of the man on how Madrid faired once he moved on to Chelsea in that Madrid never really replaced him and indeed where never as good a team because of what he gave them.

      The stand out for me and which led me to wonder weather I should either bother replying to such rubbish is look at how highly two of the best players of the recent era regard him (Zidane and our very own Stevie).
      KopiteLuke
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 21,056 posts | 3784 
      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #712: Feb 24, 2013 05:32:45 pm
      Absolutely laughable the negative comments made here regarding Makelele. He didn't become 'world class and all that' when he signed for Chelsea, he became the best anchorman for a long period of time once he changed his game in a very good Celta Vigo team. This was seen by the very best team in the world and he was signed to compliment the offensive 'Galacticos', it's a measure of the man on how Madrid faired once he moved on to Chelsea in that Madrid never really replaced him and indeed where never as good a team because of what he gave them.

      The stand out for me and which led me to wonder weather I should either bother replying to such rubbish is look at how highly two of the best players of the recent era regard him (Zidane and our very own Stevie).

      Well explained and totally agree.

      It's the same reason I was so pleased to see Lucas improving recently. His value to the team is only truly appreciated when he isn't there as a lot of his work either goes unnoticed or simply unappreciated.
      Diego LFC
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 18,887 posts | 2468 
      • Sempre Liverpool
      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #713: Feb 24, 2013 05:46:29 pm
      Absolutely laughable the negative comments made here regarding Makelele. He didn't become 'world class and all that' when he signed for Chelsea, he became the best anchorman for a long period of time once he changed his game in a very good Celta Vigo team. This was seen by the very best team in the world and he was signed to compliment the offensive 'Galacticos', it's a measure of the man on how Madrid faired once he moved on to Chelsea in that Madrid never really replaced him and indeed where never as good a team because of what he gave them.

      The stand out for me and which led me to wonder weather I should either bother replying to such rubbish is look at how highly two of the best players of the recent era regard him (Zidane and our very own Stevie).

      The Galacticos didn't fail only because he left Madrid. They failed because he was never properly replaced. Makelele leaves, then joins David Beckham. It was never going to work out. It's not about Makelele being great and Beckham being rubbish (though I do think Makelele was better at what he did than Beckham ever was), it's not about individuals - it's about the team entirely losing its shape and balance.

      He's not even the best defensive midfielder to have played for Real Madrid near that period. Give me Fernando Redondo over him any day of the week. The Prince of Madrid.

      There was also all that fuss about the "Makelele role", as if it was something new in the game of football. There have been specialists in this position for so many decades before him, it's ridiculous to suggest he was revoluationary about anything. Just goes on to show how exaggerated his contribution was. So underrated for a while, mistreated at Madrid, overrated at Chelsea.
      « Last Edit: Feb 24, 2013 06:06:27 pm by Diego LFC »
      Fowler#23
      • Forum Ian Callaghan
      • ****

      • 863 posts | 37 
      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #714: Feb 24, 2013 06:04:44 pm
      The Galacticos didn't fail only because he left Madrid. They failed because he was never properly replaced. Makelele leaves, then joins David Beckham. It was never going to work out.

      He's not even the best defensive midfielder to have played for Real Madrid near that period. Give me Fernando Redondo over him any day of the week. The Prince of Madrid.
      Read what I put I didn't say they failed because he left. I put 'it's a measure of the man how Madrid faired once he moved on to Chelsea in the Madrid never really replaced him'.

      The fact you think Beckham was brought in as a replacement for him is even more laughable. McManaman left who played out on the right, Beckham came in and played on the right of the Madrid 4. It's not rocket is it?

      Yes Redondo was an excellent player for both Madrid and Argentina he was arguably the stand out in his position however as Makelele came to prominence Fernando got a nasty injury which he never recovered from. I was a huge admirer of his he reminded me a lot of Xabi Alonso it was sad how his career was ended prematurely. 
      Diego LFC
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 18,887 posts | 2468 
      • Sempre Liverpool
      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #715: Feb 24, 2013 06:09:08 pm
      Read what I put I didn't say they failed because he left. I put 'it's a measure of the man how Madrid faired once he moved on to Chelsea in the Madrid never really replaced him'.

      The fact you think Beckham was brought in as a replacement for him is even more laughable. McManaman left who played out on the right, Beckham came in and played on the right of the Madrid 4. It's not rocket is it?

      Yes Redondo was an excellent player for both Madrid and Argentina he was arguably the stand out in his position however as Makelele came to prominence Fernando got a nasty injury which he never recovered from. I was a huge admirer of his he reminded me a lot of Xabi Alonso it was sad how his career was ended prematurely. 

      I'm not saying Beckham was brought to replace him, I'm just pointing out an example of how he was never properly replaced. Real Madrid at that time weren't interested in defensive acquisitions, they were going for the blockbuster deals with the "big names".

      Redondo is one of my favorite players ever, a true artist of his position, defensively brilliant and so good with the ball. To think of what he could have become without the injuries... he never really got to play for AC Milan on a regular basis after he left Madrid.
      jabv
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,815 posts | 114 
      • backs Harvey Elliot's haircut
      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #716: Feb 24, 2013 06:41:58 pm
      Is this the Makelele thread?

      I think Diego's opinion about Zabaleta was dead on, but the Makelele example was just bad. For me he was just brilliant; a fast, powerful, CLEAN tackler (one player whose tackles I enjoyed just as any other trick) with good distribution.
      Diego LFC
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 18,887 posts | 2468 
      • Sempre Liverpool
      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #717: Feb 24, 2013 06:45:27 pm

      Makes us forget the frustration of the Zenit game ;D
      lfc across the water
      • Needs a Klopp hug...Rafa's Number 1 fan...VAR has no faults Promoter
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 2,666 posts | 516 
      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #718: Feb 25, 2013 02:51:33 pm
      Quote from stuey
      In the context of throwing yourself off the Liver building the sentiment expressed in those comments does not equate.
      Some people are ''gutted'' that after that performance we are deemed losers, the majority of the quotes you use express disappointment, rather different to the all consuming reaction you suggest with the associated suicidal implications.
      Negativity personified.

      edit: the three posts below are an example of the ''gutted'' I describe, enthusing optimism tinged with disappointment. 

      As there was in the initial post. But nobody is going to focus on the positives from the fact we actually won the game, because of the aggregate score.

      I have no idea where you got all the above "context" and "implications" from though, there was no intention to connect it with what I said. 

      But I'm sure you'll forgive if I am a tad negative, as I've never felt as low about the club and the direction it's heading in, in the last 28 years. The traditions and heart of the club that made us what we are are no more, the defence is the worst I can remember, the coach can't see past the delights of league games against Stoke and Swansea, the players that carried the team on their backs for the past number of years are either past their time or not going to stick around to sample perma mid-table mediocrity, while the boardroom has been an incompetence chamber since 2007, where instead of running a slick professional operation, half of them are on the other side of the world from the office, nobody accepts responsibility, and every mistake they make is someone else's fault.   

      The atmosphere on Thursday night was another positive. It's a year since we qualified to play in Europe. I hope we're back in it sooner than I think we will be.
      HUYTON RED
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 29,564 posts | 3844 
      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #719: Feb 25, 2013 04:32:53 pm
      As there was in the initial post. But nobody is going to focus on the positives from the fact we actually won the game, because of the aggregate score.

      I have no idea where you got all the above "context" and "implications" from though, there was no intention to connect it with what I said. 

      But I'm sure you'll forgive if I am a tad negative, as I've never felt as low about the club and the direction it's heading in, in the last 28 years. The traditions and heart of the club that made us what we are are no more, the defence is the worst I can remember, the coach can't see past the delights of league games against Stoke and Swansea, the players that carried the team on their backs for the past number of years are either past their time or not going to stick around to sample perma mid-table mediocrity, while the boardroom has been an incompetence chamber since 2007, where instead of running a slick professional operation, half of them are on the other side of the world from the office, nobody accepts responsibility, and every mistake they make is someone else's fault.   

      The atmosphere on Thursday night was another positive. It's a year since we qualified to play in Europe. I hope we're back in it sooner than I think we will be.

      Three points I wanted to pick up on, surely you remember the 90s? Nicky Tanner, Phil Babb and Neil Rudduck spring to mind and come on be honest with yourself the boardroom has been a f**king mess ever since Sir John Smith was ousted from his position of Chairman of the club and you can thank David Moores and Noel White for that!!
      MIRO
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 12,032 posts | 2567 
      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #720: Feb 25, 2013 06:23:14 pm

      But I'm sure you'll forgive if I am a tad negative, as I've never felt as low about the club and the direction it's heading in, in the last 28 years.
      The traditions and heart of the club that made us what we are are no more, the defence is the worst I can remember, the coach can't see past the delights of league games against Stoke and Swansea, the players that carried the team on their backs for the past number of years are either past their time or not going to stick around to sample perma mid-table mediocrity, while the boardroom has been an incompetence chamber since 2007, where instead of running a slick professional operation, half of them are on the other side of the world from the office, nobody accepts responsibility, and every mistake they make is someone else's fault.   

      The atmosphere on Thursday night was another positive.
      It's a year since we qualified to play in Europe. I hope we're back in it sooner than I think we will be.

      Agree.
      When you supported the club even yonks longer like Billy, myself (1962 age 10) and others, for us to agree with that paragraph is a sad indictment.
      I get elated when we did a Zenit.
      Then we will do an Oldham.

      There are so many smoke screens and soundbites coming out of our club its pathetic.

      I dont want to know about the long haul. We are Liverpool FC and should have been able to attract the top coaches in the world to manage our club.
      What do we do. Piss about with Rodgers and Martinez.

      We should be able to attract the best players.
      Instead we shell out serious money for the Welsh ( I dont think so) Xabi ,Borini and the rest .

      Its all bollocks.  The Mancs have been able to continually evolve a new team with dropping out of sight.

      The Arse?
      They may knock Wenger but his record is ..

      2011-12: 3rd 70 pts

      2010-11: 4th 68 pts

      2009-10: 3rd 75 pts

      2008-09: 4th 72 pts

      2007-08: 3rd 83 pts

      2006-07: 4th 68 pts

      2005-06: 4th 67 pts

      2004-05: 2nd 83 pts



      Its all being done on the cheap.
      We are setting records for the wrong reasons.
      There are no trophies to play for or look forward to.

      Carra is  retiring and when Stevie stops playing the DNA will finally be lost.


      Reasons to be cheerful?

      Im a Red  and God Save Luis Suarez.
      lfc across the water
      • Needs a Klopp hug...Rafa's Number 1 fan...VAR has no faults Promoter
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 2,666 posts | 516 
      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #721: Feb 25, 2013 08:07:31 pm
      Quote from HUYTON RED
      Three points I wanted to pick up on, surely you remember the 90s? Nicky Tanner, Phil Babb and Neil Rudduck spring to mind and come on be honest with yourself the boardroom has been a f**king mess ever since Sir John Smith was ousted from his position of Chairman of the club and you can thank David Moores and Noel White for that!!

      I remember the 90's all too well. We had a tough two years under Souness, but there was always hope things would improve. And things did improve after he left. Compared to now, the Moores reign was quiet. The man had no money most of the time, but the heart and soul of the club was always there.

      We had a great chance after Rafa left to start with a blank sheet of paper and recover. Instead we appointed billionaires who knew nothing about football, let alone LFC, and who didn't want to spend money, hired a coach who wasn't up to the job, bought inept emergency forwards at almost double their market value, missed out on Europe altogether. Then last year, winning silverware counted for nothing, so we fire the club's greatest living legend in that well known Merseyside haunt of...Boston, then hire a mid-table coach who never won a thing in his life. We start the league with 2 points after 3 home games, get our 4th win in December, the defence leak 2 and 3 goals by the week, we now drift around aimlessly in mid-table with the season already over, and owners still unwilling to put their hands in their pockets, even when they can spend it.

      Things are looking grim.

      Quote from eurored
      Reasons to be cheerful?

      Im a Red  and God Save Luis Suarez.

      I hope we can save him from other clubs in the summer. He owes it to us after everything we've stood up for him. But the CL is the CL, and players want to face Schalke and Celtic more than Stoke and Sunderland. If we lose him, finishing 7th will be an achievement, not a sackable offence.

      Quick Reply