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      Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts

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      hardcoresoldier
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #690: Feb 22, 2013 11:41:28 pm
      This fantastic photo from Hoyared,although from a previous game , totally sums up last nights performance..Suarez ran his little legs off from start to finish...to score 2 world class goals in the manner he did and still be on the losing side was heartbreaking for our little wizzard...and when he sank to his knees at the final whistle I felt so sorry for him...
      FSG and the backroom staff MUST pull out all the stops to keep this guy at the club because he is the best thing i have seen in a red shirt for years...
      If only he had put away those 2 or 3 chances in the away leg we would be rattling every europa league clubs cage today..

      YNWA......

      A good post 6stringer. Keeping Suarez is crucial to how we progress. This in fact just highlights how important it is we get this Summer right. Suarez will want assurances and he is entitled to know what the intention is here as he prepares to give us his best years. If we lose Suarez it would set us back again and that's the last thing we need.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #691: Feb 23, 2013 12:22:13 am
      On Glen Johnson, for 'the best right back in the country' renowned for his attacking ability, to not know how to cross is piss poor. For a defender by trade to not know how to defend is equally as poor.

      As a pedestrian in the team who hits a wonder strike every season, he is a massive liability for the team as a whole. If he didn't have Lucas he'd be shown up more.

      He's better on the left because he concentrates more and makes sure he is in position. On the right he is too comfortable and very complacent.

      I'd argue he's not even the best right back at the club let alone country or league. If Kelly wasn't injured Glen would be struggling for his spot but that's just my opinion on it.

      I just couldn't disagree more. He is not the best crosser in the world but he's not awful at it either. To say "he can't defend" is an awful exaggeration.

      To expect a fullback to be great at both ends of the pitch at the same time is just silly as well. Attacking fullbacks will aways tend to be more suspect at the back because they're usually caught out of position, and it's up to the rest of the team to make up for that.

      So Lucas is not doing anything other than his job for the team when he covers for Johnson or Enrique. That's exactly his task and it's not because Johnson is poor, but because it's impossible for a fullback to do it all at the same time.
      srslfc
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #692: Feb 23, 2013 12:24:41 am
      I just couldn't disagree more. He is not the best crosser in the world but he's not awful at it either. To say "he can't defend" is an awful exaggeration.

      To expect a fullback to be great at both ends of the pitch at the same time is just silly as well. Attacking fullbacks will aways tend to be more suspect at the back because they're usually caught out of position, and it's up to the rest of the team to make up for that.

      So Lucas is not doing anything other than his job for the team when he covers for Johnson or Enrique. That's exactly his task and it's not because Johnson is poor, but because it's impossible for a fullback to do it all at the same time.

      Agree Diego especially the Lucas point.

      The way Brendan wants our full backs to play means it's vital to have a player like Lucas in the side.
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #693: Feb 23, 2013 12:36:33 am
      On Glen, I think I've posted before that I think complacency and casualness is a problem with him. When he's on a good run of form he will invariably put in the most lethargic of displays. Just needs a kick up the arse at times to get him on track. The home game against WBA was a case in point.

      I think his crossing is frustrating at times too, but overall he is definitely our best right back at the club and an important aspect in what we are aiming to achieve with his ability to both attack and defend throughout the game because of his instincts and under rated quality on the ball and his fitness too.

      Think it's unfair and easy to have a pop at his defending when logic dictates he is at times going to be out of position in defence when he is being asked to bomb on and is providing a vital attacking threat in attack.
      crouchinho
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #694: Feb 23, 2013 03:40:34 am
      To be clear, it's not him being out of position that bothers me. Its that he has poor positioning when he is actually defending.

      I just couldn't disagree more. He is not the best crosser in the world but he's not awful at it either. To say "he can't defend" is an awful exaggeration.

      To expect a fullback to be great at both ends of the pitch at the same time is just silly as well. Attacking fullbacks will aways tend to be more suspect at the back because they're usually caught out of position, and it's up to the rest of the team to make up for that.

      So Lucas is not doing anything other than his job for the team when he covers for Johnson or Enrique. That's exactly his task and it's not because Johnson is poor, but because it's impossible for a fullback to do it all at the same time.

      He is an awful crosser. I'd be very intrigued to see his % of complete crosses.

      And Diego, he is "the best right back in the country". That means he would have to be great at both ends. And he isn't.
      harrydunn08
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #695: Feb 23, 2013 04:09:08 am
      To be clear, it's not him being out of position that bothers me. Its that he has poor positioning when he is actually defending.

      He is an awful crosser. I'd be very intrigued to see his % of complete crosses.

      And Diego, he is "the best right back in the country". That means he would have to be great at both ends. And he isn't.

      Then who is better?  The only ones who are comparable at the moment are Zabaleta and Ivanovic.  Ivanovic is really a CB by trade, so you may or may not include him in this category.  And I think Johno would start ahead of Zabaleta in the City team. 

      I do think that Glen is the best RB in the league.  Like all players, he has his off days, but his contributions on both sides of the ball are greater than any other RB in the country so far this year - aside from Ivanovic when he was playing RB earlier this year.  Just my personal opinion though....
      scouse_jatt
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #696: Feb 23, 2013 04:28:47 am
      Its difficult to say who the 'best RB in the league' is. I agree with Crouch that he's sh*te at defending and whilst I like what Glen offers going forward, he is a liability because he doesn't cover his tracks, we're not as good as we used to be and when we get caught on the counter we suffer big time because the quality of our players especially our defending hasn't been up to scratch the past few years.

      If you look at every RB though, I get the feeling all of them are better at attacking than defending, that's just the way the league is, it's more attack-orientated now. Sagna, Rafael, Walker, Zabaleta, Azpilicueta all bomb forward, it's the nature of the game and Johnson's up there with all of them in that sense. Defending I'd say Zabaleta's the best but the rest are sh*t like Glen
      crouchinho
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #697: Feb 23, 2013 04:48:25 am
      Then who is better?  The only ones who are comparable at the moment are Zabaleta and Ivanovic.  Ivanovic is really a CB by trade, so you may or may not include him in this category.  And I think Johno would start ahead of Zabaleta in the City team. 

      I do think that Glen is the best RB in the league.  Like all players, he has his off days, but his contributions on both sides of the ball are greater than any other RB in the country so far this year - aside from Ivanovic when he was playing RB earlier this year.  Just my personal opinion though....

      Said for a long time Zabaleta is a much better player. Much better delivery, solid at the back and a responsible player.

      I'd have Zabaleta, Kelly, even Nathaniel Clyne, ahead of Glen.
      Chico Banderas
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #698: Feb 23, 2013 05:27:32 am
      I just couldn't disagree more. He is not the best crosser in the world but he's not awful at it either. To say "he can't defend" is an awful exaggeration.

      To expect a fullback to be great at both ends of the pitch at the same time is just silly as well. Attacking fullbacks will aways tend to be more suspect at the back because they're usually caught out of position, and it's up to the rest of the team to make up for that.

      So Lucas is not doing anything other than his job for the team when he covers for Johnson or Enrique. That's exactly his task and it's not because Johnson is poor, but because it's impossible for a fullback to do it all at the same time.

      Explained way better than I could....

      Said for a long time Zabaleta is a much better player. Much better delivery, solid at the back and a responsible player.

      I'd have Zabaleta, Kelly, even Nathaniel Clyne, ahead of Glen.

      Yeah but we all know your opinion on Glen.. You just eased off him for a while....

      Not trying to have a dig but I do recall you banging on about how sh*te Glen was for ages... Even tho your opinions on him don't seem to be backed by many..

      The boy is quality... just a few shitty recent games lad.. (WBA = worst I've seen him play).

      How you speak of him really does confuse me?
      DaktionLFC
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #699: Feb 23, 2013 06:09:42 am
      i agree with all the stuff you guys have said about Suarez.  We need him to stay with us.  He is fundamental to the success of this club.  His heart and passion is everything YNWA and LFC stand for.   When the tempo slowed, he was still running flat out after every ball.  I've seen it time and time again in the previous games this season, when we were up by a lot of goals or down by a couple of goals, he is still running at top speed till the end.  He is truly a role model for the younger generation and they should learn from his passion and workmanship.

      somehow we fans need to reach out to him so that he is fully away how much respect we have for this guy.  Might help shift the balance to our favor when summer comes and he knows he has the love and support of millions of reds fans across the world.

      ..... and he is one of the most intelligent players in the game today.
      crouchinho
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #700: Feb 23, 2013 07:07:45 am
      Explained way better than I could....

      Yeah but we all know your opinion on Glen.. You just eased off him for a while....

      Not trying to have a dig but I do recall you banging on about how sh*te Glen was for ages... Even tho your opinions on him don't seem to be backed by many..

      The boy is quality... just a few shitty recent games lad.. (WBA = worst I've seen him play).

      How you speak of him really does confuse me?

      What was his longest period of consistency? A month?

      If Martin gets fit and back in the team, Glen won't play right back unless Kelly gets injured. Happy to put that out there.
      BKLFC
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #701: Feb 23, 2013 07:14:35 am
      but there is no better a feeling than having that pride of our own fan base fully restored as a result of that symphony of noise.

      Ditto.  Thanks for the sea of red for bringing back a special night for me to have witnessed and felt again for a long time.  Just hope that this continues and the next match at Anfield will produce half of what was shown,  ifso Reds have a humongous chance of winning.   Clearly we are at our best with the Kop in full flow.
      BKLFC
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #702: Feb 23, 2013 07:21:24 am
      A good post 6stringer. Keeping Suarez is crucial to how we progress. This in fact just highlights how important it is we get this Summer right. Suarez will want assurances and he is entitled to know what the intention is here as he prepares to give us his best years. If we lose Suarez it would set us back again and that's the last thing we need.
      Yeah just saw that photo in this morning's Kathmandu Post.   :f_wah:

      Bring on next game I fully expect whoever is in 4th position in the EPL to shi* themselves.  Unbeaten run till the end of season.  Not even draw.  Is it possible?  Game by Game I expect to win.  Bring it game at a time.
      redkop63
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #703: Feb 23, 2013 07:28:40 am
      Your point? Him being a defender is no excuse to not knowing how to cross a ball. Excuse me, but me not being English maybe makes me say stupid things. In my country, we have "baby football", from 3 to 12, then youth system, and pretty much every player that reaches first division can hit a decent cross (or at least on consistent basis). This past year, most of our crosses have been at knee height or very, very past the box. Yes we had some good ones, and some fantastic ones, but the majority...Even Andy had to get on his knees to hit a ball!



      Not sure what's your point either. The way you put, I would imply that the system that you have in your country is of such efficiency that everyone will be able to deliver quality crosses into the box right from the goalkeeper to the striker. But in reality, it will not be the case, Johnson is a defender and his main task is to CLEAR the dangerous crosses coming into our box, not Delivering crosses into the the opposition box. Of course, I can accept some kind of misshit, overhit or underhit crosses from Glen but to do it consistently over the duration of the game is unacceptable. So, who's fault and who will be responsible for that? More importantly who carries a greater responsibility to get it right? Will it be Glen or the coach, or both?

      My opinion, both,  the coach carries a greater responsibility. Glen never asked to be played in that position, the coach asked him to play as a wing back, that's what he has done and he even delivered crosses as what is expected of him, unfortunately most of the crosses were of not much use. Hence, the coach job is to tailor an effective traning programme for Glen and to improve on that. But week after week we sees the same quality of crosses from Glen. Having said that, I'm not protecting Glen, he should have realised that his crosses were getting nowhere and ineffective and should have put in extra hours to improve on that. I don't see any improvement which led me to believe, both Glen and the coach don't bother.

      Let's say we get Pepe to play as a striker, can we expect Pepe to be able to strike the ball as good as Stevie or Suarez but yes I'm sure he does learn  how to strike a ball in the junior league, academy to the senior league etc. How well he strikes the ball depends on whether he puts in the extra hours in training or whether there's a special programme for him. We can't expect to turn him from a world class keeper into a world class striker without special training programmes. The same goes for Glen. 

      By the way, I'm no English either and hope that both of us are not talking stupidly.

      KateMKD_Red
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #704: Feb 23, 2013 12:13:47 pm
      Does anyone have links for some extended highlights from the match? Missed it and can't find anything except for the goals.
      s@int
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #705: Feb 23, 2013 12:24:48 pm
      Does anyone have links for some extended highlights from the match? Missed it and can't find anything except for the goals.

      http://www.itv.com/sport/football/article/2013-02-21/match-report-and-highlights-liverpool-3-1-zenit/

      Only just over 4 mins so hardly extended highlights
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #706: Feb 23, 2013 12:43:26 pm
      he is a liability because he doesn't cover his tracks

      The idea of a player having to cover for himself is a bit funny, and an usual misconception.

      He is an awful crosser. I'd be very intrigued to see his % of complete crosses.

      And Diego, he is "the best right back in the country". That means he would have to be great at both ends. And he isn't.

      No fullback is. People love to rave about Cafu, who played 3 World Cup finals in a row, and Roberto Carlos, once elected 3rd best player in the world, but both were suspect at the back because their task wasn't defending first, but actually providing width in attack.

      I agree Johnson isn't the best crosser of the ball, but Kelly is actually worse (not to mention he gets in crossing positions even less).
      Johnson's defensive stats are better than that of Zabaleta's as well.

      Zabaleta, by the way, is the typical underrated player who became overrated. A bit like Makelele was. Zabaleta isn't that good, but it's certainly much easier for a mediocre player like him to look good when, despite playing for a team with Aguero, Dzeko, Silva and others upfront, he also has the protection of at least 2 defensive midfielders (sometimes 3) every game.
      Chico Banderas
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #707: Feb 23, 2013 12:59:25 pm
      The idea of a player having to cover for himself is a bit funny, and an usual misconception.

      No fullback is. People love to rave about Cafu, who played 3 World Cup finals in a row, and Roberto Carlos, once elected 3rd best player in the world, but both were suspect at the back because their task wasn't defending first, but actually providing width in attack.

      I agree Johnson isn't the best crosser of the ball, but Kelly is actually worse (not to mention he gets in crossing positions even less).
      Johnson's defensive stats are better than that of Zabaleta's as well.

      Zabaleta, by the way, is the typical underrated player who became overrated. A bit like Makelele was. Zabaleta isn't that good, but it's certainly much easier for a mediocre player like him to look good when, despite playing for a team with Aguero, Dzeko, Silva and others upfront, he also has the protection of at least 2 defensive midfielders (sometimes 3) every game.



      So true..lolol


      Makalele became the "breaker-upper" poster boy..;D.. Then all the over the top world class compliments followed..
      scouse_jatt
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #708: Feb 23, 2013 04:02:56 pm
      Makelele wasn't overrated, he was one of the best DMs in world football. Even Gerrard said he's the toughest midfielder he's ever played against
      chats
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #709: Feb 23, 2013 04:56:01 pm
      Makelele was a top, top player. Don't know what you're on about really!
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #710: Feb 24, 2013 01:39:34 am
      Makelele was a very good defensive midfielder, but it took time for him to be recognized. He left Madrid through the back door, with their president saying he wasn't going to be missed. Then he signed for Chelsea, did extremely well there, in particular with Mourinho defensive, counter attacking tactics, and all of a sudden he was world class and all that. The fact he was so harshly treated at Real made his contribution to Chelsea be extremely overrated. He was very good at what he did, but very limited as well. It's all forgotten now and he got a reputation way bigger than his talent.
      Fowler#23
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #711: Feb 24, 2013 05:16:29 pm
      Absolutely laughable the negative comments made here regarding Makelele. He didn't become 'world class and all that' when he signed for Chelsea, he became the best anchorman for a long period of time once he changed his game in a very good Celta Vigo team. This was seen by the very best team in the world and he was signed to compliment the offensive 'Galacticos', it's a measure of the man on how Madrid faired once he moved on to Chelsea in that Madrid never really replaced him and indeed where never as good a team because of what he gave them.

      The stand out for me and which led me to wonder weather I should either bother replying to such rubbish is look at how highly two of the best players of the recent era regard him (Zidane and our very own Stevie).
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #712: Feb 24, 2013 05:32:45 pm
      Absolutely laughable the negative comments made here regarding Makelele. He didn't become 'world class and all that' when he signed for Chelsea, he became the best anchorman for a long period of time once he changed his game in a very good Celta Vigo team. This was seen by the very best team in the world and he was signed to compliment the offensive 'Galacticos', it's a measure of the man on how Madrid faired once he moved on to Chelsea in that Madrid never really replaced him and indeed where never as good a team because of what he gave them.

      The stand out for me and which led me to wonder weather I should either bother replying to such rubbish is look at how highly two of the best players of the recent era regard him (Zidane and our very own Stevie).

      Well explained and totally agree.

      It's the same reason I was so pleased to see Lucas improving recently. His value to the team is only truly appreciated when he isn't there as a lot of his work either goes unnoticed or simply unappreciated.

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