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      Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts

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      Diego LFC
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #713: Feb 24, 2013 05:46:29 pm
      Absolutely laughable the negative comments made here regarding Makelele. He didn't become 'world class and all that' when he signed for Chelsea, he became the best anchorman for a long period of time once he changed his game in a very good Celta Vigo team. This was seen by the very best team in the world and he was signed to compliment the offensive 'Galacticos', it's a measure of the man on how Madrid faired once he moved on to Chelsea in that Madrid never really replaced him and indeed where never as good a team because of what he gave them.

      The stand out for me and which led me to wonder weather I should either bother replying to such rubbish is look at how highly two of the best players of the recent era regard him (Zidane and our very own Stevie).

      The Galacticos didn't fail only because he left Madrid. They failed because he was never properly replaced. Makelele leaves, then joins David Beckham. It was never going to work out. It's not about Makelele being great and Beckham being rubbish (though I do think Makelele was better at what he did than Beckham ever was), it's not about individuals - it's about the team entirely losing its shape and balance.

      He's not even the best defensive midfielder to have played for Real Madrid near that period. Give me Fernando Redondo over him any day of the week. The Prince of Madrid.

      There was also all that fuss about the "Makelele role", as if it was something new in the game of football. There have been specialists in this position for so many decades before him, it's ridiculous to suggest he was revoluationary about anything. Just goes on to show how exaggerated his contribution was. So underrated for a while, mistreated at Madrid, overrated at Chelsea.
      « Last Edit: Feb 24, 2013 06:06:27 pm by Diego LFC »
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #714: Feb 24, 2013 06:04:44 pm
      The Galacticos didn't fail only because he left Madrid. They failed because he was never properly replaced. Makelele leaves, then joins David Beckham. It was never going to work out.

      He's not even the best defensive midfielder to have played for Real Madrid near that period. Give me Fernando Redondo over him any day of the week. The Prince of Madrid.
      Read what I put I didn't say they failed because he left. I put 'it's a measure of the man how Madrid faired once he moved on to Chelsea in the Madrid never really replaced him'.

      The fact you think Beckham was brought in as a replacement for him is even more laughable. McManaman left who played out on the right, Beckham came in and played on the right of the Madrid 4. It's not rocket is it?

      Yes Redondo was an excellent player for both Madrid and Argentina he was arguably the stand out in his position however as Makelele came to prominence Fernando got a nasty injury which he never recovered from. I was a huge admirer of his he reminded me a lot of Xabi Alonso it was sad how his career was ended prematurely. 
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #715: Feb 24, 2013 06:09:08 pm
      Read what I put I didn't say they failed because he left. I put 'it's a measure of the man how Madrid faired once he moved on to Chelsea in the Madrid never really replaced him'.

      The fact you think Beckham was brought in as a replacement for him is even more laughable. McManaman left who played out on the right, Beckham came in and played on the right of the Madrid 4. It's not rocket is it?

      Yes Redondo was an excellent player for both Madrid and Argentina he was arguably the stand out in his position however as Makelele came to prominence Fernando got a nasty injury which he never recovered from. I was a huge admirer of his he reminded me a lot of Xabi Alonso it was sad how his career was ended prematurely. 

      I'm not saying Beckham was brought to replace him, I'm just pointing out an example of how he was never properly replaced. Real Madrid at that time weren't interested in defensive acquisitions, they were going for the blockbuster deals with the "big names".

      Redondo is one of my favorite players ever, a true artist of his position, defensively brilliant and so good with the ball. To think of what he could have become without the injuries... he never really got to play for AC Milan on a regular basis after he left Madrid.
      jabv
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #716: Feb 24, 2013 06:41:58 pm
      Is this the Makelele thread?

      I think Diego's opinion about Zabaleta was dead on, but the Makelele example was just bad. For me he was just brilliant; a fast, powerful, CLEAN tackler (one player whose tackles I enjoyed just as any other trick) with good distribution.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #717: Feb 24, 2013 06:45:27 pm

      Makes us forget the frustration of the Zenit game ;D
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #718: Feb 25, 2013 02:51:33 pm
      Quote from stuey
      In the context of throwing yourself off the Liver building the sentiment expressed in those comments does not equate.
      Some people are ''gutted'' that after that performance we are deemed losers, the majority of the quotes you use express disappointment, rather different to the all consuming reaction you suggest with the associated suicidal implications.
      Negativity personified.

      edit: the three posts below are an example of the ''gutted'' I describe, enthusing optimism tinged with disappointment. 

      As there was in the initial post. But nobody is going to focus on the positives from the fact we actually won the game, because of the aggregate score.

      I have no idea where you got all the above "context" and "implications" from though, there was no intention to connect it with what I said. 

      But I'm sure you'll forgive if I am a tad negative, as I've never felt as low about the club and the direction it's heading in, in the last 28 years. The traditions and heart of the club that made us what we are are no more, the defence is the worst I can remember, the coach can't see past the delights of league games against Stoke and Swansea, the players that carried the team on their backs for the past number of years are either past their time or not going to stick around to sample perma mid-table mediocrity, while the boardroom has been an incompetence chamber since 2007, where instead of running a slick professional operation, half of them are on the other side of the world from the office, nobody accepts responsibility, and every mistake they make is someone else's fault.   

      The atmosphere on Thursday night was another positive. It's a year since we qualified to play in Europe. I hope we're back in it sooner than I think we will be.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #719: Feb 25, 2013 04:32:53 pm
      As there was in the initial post. But nobody is going to focus on the positives from the fact we actually won the game, because of the aggregate score.

      I have no idea where you got all the above "context" and "implications" from though, there was no intention to connect it with what I said. 

      But I'm sure you'll forgive if I am a tad negative, as I've never felt as low about the club and the direction it's heading in, in the last 28 years. The traditions and heart of the club that made us what we are are no more, the defence is the worst I can remember, the coach can't see past the delights of league games against Stoke and Swansea, the players that carried the team on their backs for the past number of years are either past their time or not going to stick around to sample perma mid-table mediocrity, while the boardroom has been an incompetence chamber since 2007, where instead of running a slick professional operation, half of them are on the other side of the world from the office, nobody accepts responsibility, and every mistake they make is someone else's fault.   

      The atmosphere on Thursday night was another positive. It's a year since we qualified to play in Europe. I hope we're back in it sooner than I think we will be.

      Three points I wanted to pick up on, surely you remember the 90s? Nicky Tanner, Phil Babb and Neil Rudduck spring to mind and come on be honest with yourself the boardroom has been a F***ing mess ever since Sir John Smith was ousted from his position of Chairman of the club and you can thank David Moores and Noel White for that!!
      MIRO
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #720: Feb 25, 2013 06:23:14 pm

      But I'm sure you'll forgive if I am a tad negative, as I've never felt as low about the club and the direction it's heading in, in the last 28 years.
      The traditions and heart of the club that made us what we are are no more, the defence is the worst I can remember, the coach can't see past the delights of league games against Stoke and Swansea, the players that carried the team on their backs for the past number of years are either past their time or not going to stick around to sample perma mid-table mediocrity, while the boardroom has been an incompetence chamber since 2007, where instead of running a slick professional operation, half of them are on the other side of the world from the office, nobody accepts responsibility, and every mistake they make is someone else's fault.   

      The atmosphere on Thursday night was another positive.
      It's a year since we qualified to play in Europe. I hope we're back in it sooner than I think we will be.

      Agree.
      When you supported the club even yonks longer like Billy, myself (1962 age 10) and others, for us to agree with that paragraph is a sad indictment.
      I get elated when we did a Zenit.
      Then we will do an Oldham.

      There are so many smoke screens and soundbites coming out of our club its pathetic.

      I dont want to know about the long haul. We are Liverpool FC and should have been able to attract the top coaches in the world to manage our club.
      What do we do. Piss about with Rodgers and Martinez.

      We should be able to attract the best players.
      Instead we shell out serious money for the Welsh ( I dont think so) Xabi ,Borini and the rest .

      Its all bollocks.  The Mancs have been able to continually evolve a new team with dropping out of sight.

      The Arse?
      They may knock Wenger but his record is ..

      2011-12: 3rd 70 pts

      2010-11: 4th 68 pts

      2009-10: 3rd 75 pts

      2008-09: 4th 72 pts

      2007-08: 3rd 83 pts

      2006-07: 4th 68 pts

      2005-06: 4th 67 pts

      2004-05: 2nd 83 pts



      Its all being done on the cheap.
      We are setting records for the wrong reasons.
      There are no trophies to play for or look forward to.

      Carra is  retiring and when Stevie stops playing the DNA will finally be lost.


      Reasons to be cheerful?

      Im a Red  and God Save Luis Suarez.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Liverpool 3-1 Zenit (3-3a): In game and Post Match Thoughts
      Reply #721: Feb 25, 2013 08:07:31 pm
      Quote from HUYTON RED
      Three points I wanted to pick up on, surely you remember the 90s? Nicky Tanner, Phil Babb and Neil Rudduck spring to mind and come on be honest with yourself the boardroom has been a F***ing mess ever since Sir John Smith was ousted from his position of Chairman of the club and you can thank David Moores and Noel White for that!!

      I remember the 90's all too well. We had a tough two years under Souness, but there was always hope things would improve. And things did improve after he left. Compared to now, the Moores reign was quiet. The man had no money most of the time, but the heart and soul of the club was always there.

      We had a great chance after Rafa left to start with a blank sheet of paper and recover. Instead we appointed billionaires who knew nothing about football, let alone LFC, and who didn't want to spend money, hired a coach who wasn't up to the job, bought inept emergency forwards at almost double their market value, missed out on Europe altogether. Then last year, winning silverware counted for nothing, so we fire the club's greatest living legend in that well known Merseyside haunt of...Boston, then hire a mid-table coach who never won a thing in his life. We start the league with 2 points after 3 home games, get our 4th win in December, the defence leak 2 and 3 goals by the week, we now drift around aimlessly in mid-table with the season already over, and owners still unwilling to put their hands in their pockets, even when they can spend it.

      Things are looking grim.

      Quote from eurored
      Reasons to be cheerful?

      Im a Red  and God Save Luis Suarez.

      I hope we can save him from other clubs in the summer. He owes it to us after everything we've stood up for him. But the CL is the CL, and players want to face Schalke and Celtic more than Stoke and Sunderland. If we lose him, finishing 7th will be an achievement, not a sackable offence.

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