Paul Tomkins: I Hate Rodgers (Clearly)

Having watched the team this year I think we need to be better defensively and offensively. I like a possession based game but it can have limitations if your playing staff aren't really cut out for it. Did Carragher make a difference when he got the nod. If so then at least BR is adapting. Did Sturridge make a difference. These are important for me because it shows BR has a an idea of how to improve the team when given a chance. It seems fans, players etc trust managers who have a plan and able to change is the plan isn't working. Also he looks a bit like Shanks. Fro the record I am a Rafa man, but if and when that man comes back I would love it to be when we are ready for 'La Decima'.

I like Paul Tomkins points of view. When we talk about improving next season, it will have to be massive and decisive. We are competing and will be trying to close the gap with the usual CL contenders, Arsenal & Spurs. Chelsea & City will most likely be challenging for the title again against the other one. We are currently having a huge 12 point gap between us and Arsenal who are in 4th. Three years out of being Europe's elite is enough  . Time to awaken.

interesting read.

to be fair to BR, the prem league now is a way different animal than when the 'top eight' started.  back in the day, you had a small group of clubs dominating (think prem league and the top 4)... now, the prem league is much more congested... with only man utd running away from the pack... well i guess you can kind of group man city as well... however, the league has never been as close as this and I for one enjoy it.  although frustrating sometimes.

but back to the topic at hand, the biggest issues i see are that BR is slightly handicapped. 

1) you can improve your squad sure, but how much has it improved or 'not improved' against the other 19 teams because those teams are making changes as well.. and some of them have vastly larger sums of money to make changes faster

2) BR really only had one transfer window (winter) to bring in players that can play his style.

3) we dont have the unlimited pockets of cash anymore... think of pep when he takes over bayern this summer...  He is going to have hundreds of millions to splash.  BR
will be lucky to get 40mil.  we'll have to sell more players to fund newcomers

4) and lastly, BR's mandate from Henry is to develop players and grow from within.  What this means is that until the crop of U19s..U21s etc are ready, we really wont be able to see what BR has brought in for us.  If you want instant results (instant is within a season, you are really buying talent and slotting them in and not home growing. 


I personally think BR is growing and learning as well and he is doing a remarkable job.  Sure not every day I like the guy and some of his subs were totally questionable, but over the year, he is making better decisions and starting with the right XI... for the most part.   I think if he gets a proper chance and support, he might be around for quite some time... but as usual, we shall see

Why do people have no patience? He needs the time to build his own team, and that's going to take a while. Let him see the full terms of his contract. Again, Alex Ferguson didn't seem to cut the mustard for four years so why should we not give Rodgers the time? If anything, the fans are as bad as chairmen in football who want results instantly.

Liverpool FC were in F***ing dire straights when he arrived, and he needed to give a sense of stability. Perhaps we aren't higher in the league than last year, but when you drastically change the structure and tactics of a club, then results aren't going to go our way instantly and its going to take time to embed itself. Let's actually be thankful we aren't lower in the league - I seriously thought 7-10th was a possibility for this season, and we're seventh because the quality is only good enough for seventh. For example, the likes of Downing are only good enough for a team of seventh, not for any higher. He's far too inconsistent, despite improving from last year.

Whatever way you look at it, at least there's a plan in place and there is hopeful signs from the play this year, unlike last year.

Liverpool FC were in F***ing dire straights when he arrived

Whatever way you look at it, at least there's a plan in place and there is hopeful signs from the play this year, unlike last year.

We won a trophy and playing pretty good football like this season.

You must be getting mixed up with when Hodgson was in charge!

Ynwa Brendan Rodgers . We're going in the right direction keep the faith ffs

Generally fed up of these w*nk articles and threads. As Diego said we were able to cut Kenny a lot of slack after last season having been with us for a year and a half yet different man = different attitudes.

can someone help me please .Last year we won a trophy and made another final qualified for Europa league.this season no silverware no European football but we have made progress???

can someone help me please .Last year we won a trophy and made another final qualified for Europa league.this season no silverware no European football but we have made progress???

Can't argue mate - I believe and want BR to get more time but phrases like "dire straits" to describe what he inherited as one poster did devalue the argument.

My frustration with BR has been documented but he has my total support but not my total belief.

can someone help me please .Last year we won a trophy and made another final qualified for Europa league.this season no silverware no European football but we have made progress???

No doubt last season was a better season. The two cup runs were an absolute joy particularly the wins over Man Utd and Everton in the FA Cup. But I can honestly say our league form really ground to a halt playing some pretty poor football. This season, on the face of it, there hasn't been much progress but I persist we've become a better team over the course of the season after a nightmare start where we were turned over too easily. It's absolutely VITAL that the progress made from January onwards is taken into the summer and ready to be continued from August onwards. There's a lot of pressure on Brendan to get it right. His first MAJOR test as a manager will come in that first half of next season. He's been given something of a bye for this season by many and I think that's only fair considering the fact that, in reality, he entered a team that hadn't come on much further than when Rafa left in 2010. We've been stuck in the same hole for the last 3 years with 4 different managers (if you want to count Rafa's last season). The sacking of Hodgson was correct. The sacking of Kenny was wrong however. He deserved another year at least to rectify issues in that team.

But it wasn't to be and we got a new manager in Brendan a guy who I was so impressed by the previous year in bringing in a progressive brand of football having just emerged from the Championship, a division that has so often produced god awful anti footballing sides in the form of Steve Bruce, Tony Pulis or Sam Allardyce's shower of crap. He's a manager appointed on hope for fulfilling his potential which is dangerous but is worth a shot especially when you see how it served the likes of Dortmund when they appointed that guy from Mainz who turned out to be Jürgen Klopp. Like Klopp it can pay off spectacularly, other times it doesn't. Stability and longevity is the key I really believe. We've seen flashes here and there of a brilliant Liverpool under Rodgers and then moments of the direness we've been subjected to since Rafa's last season but the latter always dictates irrational minds I find.

Can't argue mate - I believe and want BR to get more time but phrases like "dire straits" to describe what he inherited as one poster did devalue the argument.

My frustration with BR has been documented but he has my total support but not my total belief.

i think your quote here kinda sums up my long post. Decided to make it a lengthy one due to people who quote you outta context.

No doubt he is a good manager, will probably be a great one, just feel he wouldnt achieve that potential of greatness here in LFC at this present time. But i believe he will bring the stability we need, just cant see that something extra that says League title or cup success, at least not yet.

This is pretty much how I feel about Rodgers, however one thing I don't understand is how Tomkins says he will feel pretty indifferent if someone of similar level replaces Brendan. Surely that would lead to another season that could be written off as transitional, no?

For me, I feel that remaining where we were in the table was the minimum expected this season, but it's not like I thought that would be easy. I think many managers would come into our team and drop a few places with a transitional season, others may bring us up a few.

Now Brendan has got this season out of the way and i find it hard to see our squad doing anything other than improving before we start next season, I'm pretty enthusiastic about next season. But as tomkins says, the coming season is when we must make a real challenge for the top 4. No excuses, Brendan has to do something to prove he's the right man to take us forward.

And god I hope he does, not just because that's what we all obviously want, but because I don't think I can face another change of manager and everything that goes with it.

Can't argue mate - I believe and want BR to get more time but phrases like "dire straits" to describe what he inherited as one poster did devalue the argument.

My frustration with BR has been documented but he has my total support but not my total belief.

Come off it, we were thinking comfortable top four at the beginning of last year. Who would have believed that we would have finished 8th in the league that year in August 2011? Dire straights indeed - we bought terribly that summer and that was the major downfall.

Come off it, we were thinking comfortable top four at the beginning of last year. Who would have believed that we would have finished 8th in the league that year in August 2011? Dire straights indeed - we bought terribly that summer and that was the major downfall.

And we won one trophy,  just missed another and will finish one place better off. Don't be so ridiculous.

One thing that pisses me off when discussing Brendan is his "lack of experience". Let's review this for a second - it's true he is not experienced at the very top level in English football, nevertheless his managerial erformance at Swansea was outstanding. He made the team out-"football" nearly every opther team, including those with huge budgets - even Arsenal. That is a huge achievement.

And looking back at our managers, Kenny (1st time) had no managerial experience at the top level in the British game (unlikel the 2nd stint), neither did Ged or Rafa. In fact - our most "experienced" appointments were arguably Souness and Hodgson.

Experience helps but isn't the crucial factor in detrmining success. Instead your footballing philosophy and management style are much more likely to determine whether you will win things. It's more important that your philosophy suits the environment which you are playing than anything else. If Pep Guardiola tried his tiki Taka in teh 70s he would have got booted off the park.

Rodger's implementation of possession-based high pressing football is likely to bear fruit - probably it won't be as successful as the Bayern / Rafa model in this league but time will tell.

One thing that pisses me off when discussing Brendan is his "lack of experience". Let's review this for a second - it's true he is not experienced at the very top level in English football, nevertheless his managerial erformance at Swansea was outstanding. He made the team out-"football" nearly every opther team, including those with huge budgets - even Arsenal. That is a huge achievement.

And looking back at our managers, Kenny (1st time) had no managerial experience at the top level in the British game (unlikel the 2nd stint), neither did Ged or Rafa. In fact - our most "experienced" appointments were arguably Souness and Hodgson.

Experience helps but isn't the crucial factor in detrmining success. Instead your footballing philosophy and management style are much more likely to determine whether you will win things. It's more important that your philosophy suits the environment which you are playing than anything else. If Pep Guardiola tried his tiki Taka in teh 70s he would have got booted off the park.

Rodger's implementation of possession-based high pressing football is likely to bear fruit - probably it won't be as successful as the Bayern / Rafa model in this league but time will tell.

Good one that.

And we won one trophy,  just missed another and will finish one place better off. Don't be so ridiculous.

and Kenny's awful signings have played a lot of games this season.

and Kenny's awful signings have played a lot of games this season.

Suarez obviously, Enrique is doing good also, incorporating Downing and Handerson in the team is more like working with what is available than Rodger's first choice of players, it is him who should receive credit for that. They were never top signings.

Generally fed up of these w*nk articles and threads. As Diego said we were able to cut Kenny a lot of slack after last season having been with us for a year and a half yet different man = different attitudes.

Unless I'm missing something this "w*nk article" actually does cut Brendan a lot of slack as do the overwhelming majority of posters in these "w*nk threads". Personally I'm generally fed up with folk pretending that Brendan hasn't been cut any slack, by either fans or owners, when it's patently not true.

I mean it's not as if too many are calling for his head or the owners are going to sack him for a poor league showing; is it?... Yeah it's a case of "different man = different attitudes" alright.

That said and to be fair I can see where (and Diego) are coming from: I went through the same thing, this time, last year. I just knew that some mealy-mouthed, fuckers, didn't really mean it when they said they didn't want Kenny gone. 

Whilst it may be too long for some to read and digest I believe that the Tomkins article, all things considered, is a very fair, reasonable and even-handed read.

Brendan has been cut a lot of slack this season.

If memory serves me right we had a 'Is Roy The Right Man' thread in around August of his time here.

Not trying to compare Brendan with Roy but to say he hasn't been cut any slack is plain wrong.

 The owners installed Brendan insisting he was the man in their estimation to succeed and better his predecessor, for the club's sake I would suggest the manager is being given the grace of time by the supporters; he is not making a complete pig's arse of the job and to an extent the charity with the time scale would apply to the owners if only for the most neccessary and obvious reasons.
It makes perfect sense therefore that while those factors prevail the owners are going to give Brendan as much leeway as he wants, an additional advantage as far as FSG are concerned is he is perceived to be making a measured improvement, albeit using microscopic guaging equipment over the long term - the owners once again are fully prepared to follow these tactics to the letter and take as much time as they are allowed. 

The results might not have improved too much (though they have been a bit better in the league at least), but I think we're in a better place now than we were last season despite winning a trophy and having similar results.

I feel more a bit more confident in this side than last year's. Basically, though we've had short term stagnation, I think in the long-term we're better off now. Probably the biggest influence on that has been Coutinho. We've been crying out for a playmaker for years, and now we finally have one -- and genuinely talented one at that.

But, we're still lacking a quality winger, a more dynamic physical presence in midfield, and a dominate CB. Those are the three main areas we need to focus on in the summer to improve.

The results might not have improved too much (though they have been a bit better in the league at least), but I think we're in a better place now than we were last season despite winning a trophy and having similar results.

I feel more a bit more confident in this side than last year's. Basically, though we've had short term stagnation, I think in the long-term we're better off now. Probably the biggest influence on that has been Coutinho. We've been crying out for a playmaker for years, and now we finally have one -- and genuinely talented one at that.

But, we're still lacking a quality winger, a more dynamic physical presence in midfield, and a dominate CB. Those are the three main areas we need to focus on in the summer to improve.

But don't you think if Kenny was allowed to build on his first season we may have seen similar results or even better especially in the league as new players would have bedded in nicely?.

Still think it was way too premature to sack Kenny and not give him the opportunity to improve our league campaign which he would of if he were allowed to bring in his targets.