Would a 5th place finish be enough progress next season?

No excuses for next season, Rodgers has had his learning curve and next seasonis about winning the league with a good shout in the 2 domestic cups being we have no European competition as a distraction not that it was a distraction for Rodgers predecessors.

Title it is.

There's F**k all chance of us winning the league next season unless BR has a Fairy Godmother hidden up his ass, there's just too much ground to make up in one season! 4th place is more than achievable, 3rd could be possible with the right signings and a bit of luck.

It's not places as such, but a points improvement I'll be looking for. 

How would 5th not be progress? That means finishing above either Arsenal or Tottenham who this season have been more consistent than us (I think Chelsea, City and United make up the top 3). That would be good but on top of that we need to have 2 strong cup runs. Lets take it a step at a time, unless the other teams weaken massively and we somehow pull out 4-5 Michu type bargains then I think 5th is a reasonable target. Of course targets can be altered throughout the season so if we're in 5th come January then new goals can be set.

Our competition next season should only be Spurs as Chelsea, Scum, City will all have new managers and Arsenal won't have a say in the Title but will qualify in the top 3.

It's never been a better time to challenge for the title if not win it as we have had time to bed players and a system that suits, 2nd half of the season proves this.

It's our to loose.

How would 5th not be progress? That means finishing above either Arsenal or Tottenham who this season have been more consistent than us (I think Chelsea, City and United make up the top 3). That would be good but on top of that we need to have 2 strong cup runs. Lets take it a step at a time, unless the other teams weaken massively and we somehow pull out 4-5 Michu type bargains then I think 5th is a reasonable target. Of course targets can be altered throughout the season so if we're in 5th come January then new goals can be set.

By the same token, finishing with 1 point more in the league would be judged as progress. Well I don't know about you but I wouldn't see us winning the title in 30 years time as acceptable progress, that's why it needs quantifying, if 5th meant we got 10 more points than this year, then I could accept it with disappointment but if 5th meant we had 1 more point than this year and a couple of the teams above us underperformed I wouldn't view it as 'progress'.

Even though if you wanted to be pedantic you could argue the literal translation.

Means finishing above one of United, City, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal.
Maybe do-able, need to definitely finish comfortably 6th anyway, cant let a 're-building' Everton finish above us, again.
The '5 year plan' set out when JH took over was for us to be challenging for the title and in Europe aswell which is in 3 seasons from now. So for that to stay on course I think we should be definitely challenging for top 4 next season, whether that will come true we are yet to see.
This summer is a big one, think we need to be subtle, not too many signings, especially as we dont need a huge squad without Europe, but definitely need 2 more key players, and maybe 2 extra squad players for our squad depth.

Need to get business done early aswell, give the players time to gel, keep developing the youngsters, hoping United, City an Chelsea dont rule the roost with their new managers and a little bit of luck for us and don't see why we cant challenge for 4th.

Perhaps a points total would be a better gauge for progress.  I think if we can push past the 70 point mark next season, it will be sufficient progress over the course of one season regardless of where we fall in terms of the table.

So this talk is about 5th? I'm sorry but last I knew we were Liverpool Football Club and we go into the season looking to push for the title and top 4, not 5th. Will start thinking about 5th and whether that's progress if we end up slipping away so badly like we have done for the last 3, 4 years.

So this talk is about 5th? I'm sorry but last I knew we were Liverpool Football Club and we go into the season looking to push for the title and top 4, not 5th. Will start thinking about 5th and whether that's progress if we end up slipping away so badly like we have done for the last 3, 4 years.

You might want to get back in your time machine mate.

You might want to get back in your time machine mate.

Why?! Because I'm not prepared to sit back and say we are long past it and are no where near challenging? Sorry but if you are prepared to do that then that's your problem, go support somebody like F***ing West Brom if you are happy to settle for a mediocre season. The fact we have played some really good football and scored so many goals is an encouraging sign, a good summer market for the defence and a bit of consistency then I see no reason not. If people are going to tell me I'm being unrealistic or get back to my time machine then I will tell them what they can do and where they can go because I will never stop believing that we can go into a season and dominate the league. 2005 we finished 5th with 58 points, the following year we finished with 82 points, who would have expected that going into that season?

So this talk is about 5th? I'm sorry but last I knew we were Liverpool Football Club and we go into the season looking to push for the title and top 4

Always my expectations mate and next season will be no different.

NO

People saying we should be aiming for the tital are deluded. Lets get realistic here. We are 4-5 world class players away from even challenging for the league . At the moment we let stupid goals in and cant defend set pieces. Unless that is solved in the Summer I cant see us improving much on this years performance!

So this talk is about 5th? I'm sorry but last I knew we were Liverpool Football Club and we go into the season looking to push for the title and top 4, not 5th. Will start thinking about 5th and whether that's progress if we end up slipping away so badly like we have done for the last 3, 4 years.

The question is really about if 5th would represent progress, I think it would, especially if we only miss out on 4th by a whisker. That said I have faith in Brendan to get us into the race for 3rd.

The question is really about if 5th would represent progress, I think it would, especially if we only miss out on 4th by a whisker. That said I have faith in Brendan to get us into the race for 3rd.

Yes it does, of course it does, you're spot on BUT my point is why start thinking about 5th and if that's progress before this season has finished and before we even know what we are going to be going into next season with in terms of players and regardless of anything else if we are talking about next season then it should only be about reclaiming our place in the top 4 and hopefully making it number 19. 5th is progress for sure because it's a higher position and obviously the Europa League too but I don't want just progress, I want to be back at the top of English Football and that is what we should be looking for, especially since we have been in "transition" or whatever teams like to call it for the last few years.

Yes it does, of course it does, you're spot on BUT my point is why start thinking about 5th and if that's progress before this season has finished and before we even know what we are going to be going into next season with in terms of players and regardless of anything else if we are talking about next season then it should only be about reclaiming our place in the top 4 and hopefully making it number 19. 5th is progress for sure because it's a higher position and obviously the Europa League too but I don't want just progress, I want to be back at the top of English Football and that is what we should be looking for, especially since we have been in "transition" or whatever teams like to call it for the last few years.

We'll get there my man, someday! Baby steps 

We'll get there my man, someday! Baby steps 

Would it make me seem like a stroppy child if I started throwing my toys out the pram shouting "I want it now!"

Would it make me seem like a stroppy child if I started throwing my toys out the pram shouting "I want it now!"

Sounds like me talking to the wife last night! Oh well,

I am sorry but the very title of this thread on it's own makes me angry.After seeing this great club have so much success over the years the only progress for me would be to finish first.It saddens me that we have supporters who think anything less than 1st is progress, only 1st will be progress for me.If our owners and management think 5th is progress then it is time for them to get out of Anfield so we can aim for the top once again.

I am sorry but the very title of this thread on it's own makes me angry.After seeing this great club have so much success over the years the only progress for me would be to finish first.It saddens me that we have supporters who think anything less than 1st is progress, only 1st will be progress for me.If our owners and management think 5th is progress then it is time for them to get out of Anfield so we can aim for the top once again.

I feel you're going to be disappointed then Billy, we're a good few years of solid building before we'll be at that level.
I agree with you in principal mate, but this " nothing but first place is acceptable " talk is unrealistic, and sounds like we have some devine right to be Champions.
We've had 23 long years of disappointment to knock that thought out of our heads.
WHEN we get back to the top, it will be a result of steady progress, that won't happen overnight.

I am sorry but the very title of this thread on it's own makes me angry.After seeing this great club have so much success over the years the only progress for me would be to finish first.It saddens me that we have supporters who think anything less than 1st is progress, only 1st will be progress for me.If our owners and management think 5th is progress then it is time for them to get out of Anfield so we can aim for the top once again.

Progress: 
1.  Steady improvement, as of a society or civilization. 
2.  To advance toward a higher or better stage; improve steadily.

By that definition, progress (in the league) could be quantified by two tangible factors - Points Total and League Position

It is safe to say that the points total really only matters in so far as it is a general indication of where you are in the table.  I think any team would gladly finish the season on 70 points if it meant they would win the league title.  Conversely, I don't think any of the other top clubs would want to finish on 72 points if it meant finishing 6th.  At the other end, not many teams would want to earn 45 points if it meant they still got relegated.  I think this shows that league position is ultimately the most important factor, but that the points total can be useful in analyzing progress if done so within the proper scope.

An alternative way to assess our progress is by taking a more subjective look at player personnel and their individual growth/development.  The development of youth players into first team regulars who can have a positive impact on our performances also points to progress, even if it does not provide an immediate jump in either league position or points totals.

While I agree with you that our goals going into next season should not be merely to finish 4th (or 5th), doing so would represent progress by definition.  Ideally we would all like to be in a position to challenge for more prestigious honors next season, but I won't overreact if we fall short again as long as some form of tangible progress can be seen and objectively measured. 

I feel you're going to be disappointed then Billy, we're a good few years of solid building before we'll be at that level.
I agree with you in principal mate, but this " nothing but first place is acceptable " talk is unrealistic, and sounds like we have some devine right to be Champions.
We've had 23 long years of disappointment to knock that thought out of our heads.
WHEN we get back to the top, it will be a result of steady progress, that won't happen overnight.

What I am saying is it's not acceptable for L.F.C,to only have aspirations of finishing 5th and to think that is progress,we are and should be better than that.

The current first team isn't a million miles away from being able to finish in the top 4 forget 5th; the point is do they have the desire to finish in the top 4, forget 5th. 

Its like any business or activity were there has to be the desire to get on top of everybody else - we all know what i'm talking about..... is there a hunger to finish in the top 4? forget 5th  That means the players have to go out on the pitch week in week out with a desperate desire to win - thats what it'll take - a desperate desire to win.  I'm afraid a lot of it is to do with mental fitness/strength.  If we have it we'll soon be able to boss our way back in to the top 4. Forget 5th.