The Rise of Bayern Munich

After winning their 5th European Cup in impressive fashion and the imminent arrival of Gotze and Lewandowski from Dortmund. Is this the start of european dominance for Bayern?

They've been in the final for 3 of the last 4 years.
Certainly have the ability to challenge for years to come.

While the world got caught up in the hype of Barcelona/Madrid and
the Premier League Germany clubs seem to be going about there business
in a better, more sustainable, manner.

After winning their 5th European Cup in impressive fashion and the imminent arrival of Gotze and Lewandowski from Dortmund. Is this the start of european dominance for Bayern?

Like they did in the early 70s winning three European Cup's on the bounce!

I am not convinced that they are all that great. They have done well of late, beaten some good teams but I don't see it lasting long. Maybe I am being a bit clueless but they beat a Barca team that aren't at the same level as they were a few years ago. The Dortmund team they played are good and as much as I admire them, they aren't necessarily the greatest team around. Just my opinion.

While the world got caught up in the hype of Barcelona/Madrid and
the Premier League Germany clubs seem to be going about there business
in a better, more sustainable, manner.

Typical German efficiency!

I am not convinced that they are all that great. They have done well of late, beaten some good teams but I don't see it lasting long. Maybe I am being a bit clueless but they beat a Barca team that aren't at the same level as they were a few years ago. The Dortmund team they played are good and as much as I admire them, they aren't necessarily the greatest team around. Just my opinion.

3 Champions League finals in 4 years is pretty amazing. Why don't you see it lasting long? They're financially the most healthy club out of all top clubs, and their earnings will only increase by the year. Their stadium is almost paid off, which will give them more money to spend. The Bundesliga have a new tv deal starting next season that is 68% more than their current, and overtakes La Liga's tv deal. Bayern have more commercial income than any top club in Europe. Bayern are a club run by supporters, and have former players in many important positions, continuity in policy is safeguarded.

If you consider that German football is on the rise, and that Bayern will always be the biggest club in Germany, I think they're basically guaranteed to be a major European contender for many years to come.

If FSG want to copy anyone's financial plan they should look at the Commerical Revenue of Bayern.
If you look at it as a percentage of income it's probably the highest going.



Interesting to look at the Individual Broadcasting deals in Spain and Italy.
Would be good to see how they compare to the new deals that England and Germany are getting.

If FSG want to copy anyone's financial plan they should look at the Commerical Revenue of Bayern.
If you look at it as a percentage of income it's probably the highest going.



Interesting to look at the Individual Broadcasting deals in Spain and Italy.
Would be good to see how they compare to the new deals that England and Germany are getting.

Not just as a percantage of their income racer, they actually have the highest commercial income out of all clubs.




English clubs can't replicate that though, Germany is such a large country, and healthy financially compared to the other European countries.

Not just as a percantage of their income racer, they actually have the highest commercial income out of all clubs.




English clubs can't replicate that though, Germany is such a large country, and healthy financially compared to the other European countries.

Ah. That's the graph I was trying to find.
Originally I was going to say they had the highest, but I couldn't find that graph to back up the claim.

That graph also highlights how important TV revenue has become.
Once a club drops out of Europe they lose out heavily.

Going to be interesting for sure, Bayern were absolute class this year. Will be interesting to see how other teams respond.

City, Madrid, Chelsea and United will all be under new management (PSG too probably) next season. Juventus will probably really go for Europe next year after dominating domestically for two years now and Barca will surely splash out and improve that back four after getting Neymar.

Looking forward to next year, just hope come September 2014, we'll be in there with those teams!

I Think their squad is by far the best in the world if they add Lewandowski as well as Gotze. The many finals they got into over the past 4 years is incredible but i can see them being even more hungry now with Pep taking over he will make them even better and i could easily see them dominate europe for next 2 or 3 seasons.

Don't know about Juventus chats. Even their own manager has said that they can't compete anymore with Europe's elite clubs, and that Italian football has come to a standstill.

Don't know about Juventus chats. Even their own manager has said that they can't compete anymore with Europe's elite clubs, and that Italian football has come to a standstill.

Ah, haven't really followed Serie A at all lately. Shame that, always had a soft spot for Juventus.

Ah, haven't really followed Serie A at all lately. Shame that, always had a soft spot for Juventus.

I want to like them, but I can't get over the fact that most of their team was on doping last time they won the Champions League. But I think Italian football in general just has been in decline, they've had problems filling their stadiums aswell.

Their era has already started years ago. 3 finals in 4 years is impressive as F**k.

The things is, people need symbols and landmarks for 'rise' and 'fall' of 'empires', and this years' semifinal (Bayern vs Barça) provided the perfect moment for it.

I think Barcelona are far from over though. I believe in the next years these two teams (Barça and Bayern), arguably the best in Europe for years, will continue to fight for the big trophies.

Their era has already started years ago. 3 finals in 4 years is impressive as f**k.

The things is, people need symbols and landmarks for 'rise' and 'fall' of 'empires', and this years' semifinal (Bayern vs Barça) provided the perfect moment for it.

I think Barcelona are far from over though. I believe in the next years these two teams (Barça and Bayern), arguably the best in Europe for years, will continue to fight for the big trophies.

Barcelona will be back. They need to get a few transfers in but they will be back as strong as ever I believe. When you've got a team with Lionel Messi in it and adding the likes of Neymar then they are going the right way about it in getting back to the top.

Barcelona will be back. They need to get a few transfers in but they will be back as strong as ever I believe. When you've got a team with Lionel Messi in it and adding the likes of Neymar then they are going the right way about it in getting back to the top.

Agreed mate. I said so after the UCL semifinals and I'm saying again, people have been too fast to jump into conclusions about that 'change of eras'. I don't think this will be an era of one or another, nor does it have to be about only one club at the top - both clubs have been at or around the top for a while now.

Barcelona will continue to be a force ofcourse, as they're a big club. But I do think their best days are behind them. Has alot to do with their current president Rosell too. When Laporta left, so did Begiristain and later Guardiola. Very little left of the policy that made them so succesful, very little people left that were involved with that success. And Rossell doesn't seem to adher the vision that made them so succesful, he has even pushed Cruijff away from the club. And I think they're losing the tiki taka style to an extend, as that's dependant on world class players coming through their own youth ranks.

Over an extended period of time I agree it might mean the end of this Barcelona, but for the time being, I think they're far from over. I'm not sure if Tito Villanova is the man for them as Guardiola would be missed by any club, but they still got much of what made them so powerful in the last few years. I can easily see them winning the UCL next year, for example, and then all that talk of "the end of an era" would seem extremely foolish. I would leave that 'era' talk to historians 20 years from now

Even the all German final was only possible due to an offside goal in injury time - had it been disallowed, the final would still contain at least one Spanish team on it. So for me all this talk of 'the downfall of Spanish football' sounds really awkward, as does 'the rise of Bundesliga'. The German league has risen many years ago and Spanish football is still a great force.

I agree Diego, Barcelona can very well still be succesful. But for me, they were more than just succesful in recent years, they revolutionised the game. That part seems to be fading, and it might be gone when Xavi and Iniesta are gone.

And ofcourse, it's not as black and white as German football is on top and Spanish football is down. German football has been on the up for a few years, but that's a continueing trend I think. And Spanish teams are still strong. If teams like Chelsea and Inter can win the CL, than those two Spanish teams surely can too. But I think Spanish football is very much under financial pressure due to the crisis. And the tv deals that make Real and Barcelona as big as they are are very much under pressure aswell. And those clubs have been growing some serious debts, but it's doubtful whether they can still do that in the future.

Their era has already started years ago. 3 finals in 4 years is impressive as F**k.

Without a doubt... they've just been getting stronger but this success hasn't come cheaply.

From 2007/08 to present (when they appeared to set off on rebuilding); they've spent £296.4m (for those who don't believe in 'net spend') or £222m (for those who do).

Without a doubt... they've just been getting stronger but this success hasn't come cheaply.

From 2007/08 to present (when they appeared to set off on rebuilding); they've spent £296.4m (for those who don't believe in 'net spend') or £222m (for those who do).

Because of their new stadium, which opened 2 years before that. That really improved their income and spending.

Because of their new stadium, which opened 2 years before that.

The Allianz holds about 70,000.

I wonder how other club's (within the Bundesliga) spending compares over the same time; Dortmund, for example? Their ground hold something like 80,000. I'll maybe have a better look later.

That really improved their income and spending.

I wouldn't be just as sure of that Bier.

I'm certain we have been told recently (again I'll have to check) that a new L.F.C. Stadium wouldn't bring that much revenue in. Then again a big, empty, stadium ain't worth a F**k; you need a successful team to put bums on seats.

Either way Bayern haven't been afraid to spend and it's showing.

The Allianz holds about 70,000.

I wonder how other club's (within the Bundesliga) spending compares over the same time; Dortmund, for example? Their ground hold something like 80,000. I'll maybe have a better look later.

I wouldn't be just as sure of that Bier.

I'm certain we have been told recently (again I'll have to check) that a new L.F.C. Stadium wouldn't bring that much revenue in. Then again a big, empty, stadium ain't worth a f**k; you need a successful team to put bums on seats.

Either way Bayern haven't been afraid to spend and it's showing.

It's not even so much those 70.000, their previous stadium had over 60.000 too. And ticket prices are extremely low in Germany(season ticket for a little over a 100 pounds at Bayern), their match day income is a weak point in comparison to other European top clubs, and even now barely higher than ours. But there's no doubt that the new stadium has greatly improved their commercial income.

When I'm saying it has really improved Bayern's income and spending, I'm not implying that would be the exact same in our case. Bayern were in a completely different situation than us when they got a new stadium, they always have been and will continue to be the biggest club in Germany and have major German sponsors behind them like Adidas, Telekom, Allianz, Audi, Lufthansa and Siemens, sponsors that are loyal and invested into that club.

Dortmund's spending should be much less, they were in massive debt a decade ago and were forced to fall back on good youth development and good overall policy to get out of it. Ofcourse they've always had a massive support to fall back on, and their stadium which has gradually expanded over the years.

I agree Barca will come back far better next season with the arrival of Neymar but we dont know what he will be like in Europe. They need two solid CB's and a world class GK as it is too easy to score against them, teams are finding out how to play against them.

If Real get Cavani and/or Bale they will be amazing next season too. This summer transfer window will be very interesting to say the least.

After winning their 5th European Cup in impressive fashion and the imminent arrival of Gotze and Lewandowski from Dortmund. Is this the start of european dominance for Bayern?

No

No team will dominate Europe again like Madrid, Munich and Ajax and us did way back. Who was the last side to do back to backs? Was it Milan 89/90?

The rise started decades ago.

Topic should be called 'The continuity of Bayern Munich'.

I remember us beating them in the super Cup back in 2001. Hitzfeld was a great coach too. Bayern are a well run club, great sponsorship deals.  More ambitious people running the club than we have.

The rise started decades ago.

Topic should be called 'The continuity of Bayern Munich'.

The point I was going to make.

See where ues are coming from with the finals but nobody remembers the losers of finals! I mean dominate europe by winning the trophy year after year. A lot of people forget Liverpool were in the final in 07 but nobody remembers it well because we lost but people will always talk about Istanbul.

Yeah but we've been sh*te for two decades barring 3 or 4 seasons so of course we're going to talk about the best moments. Bayern in that time have won dozens of trophies.

they've been changing up the squad more and look like they'll keep doing it, went from freezing out olic for klose to gomez for klose then mandzukuk for gomez, next might be lewandowski for mandzukuk and they will keep on rolling. the big improvement in midfield came from one bundesliga record transfer and somehow schweini is fit for every game (had a broken collarbone and little ankle injuries and the like but), they sorted the defense out, had tyler the creator come through the ranks, i mean alaba.

Anyone watching the Cup Final tonight?

Bayern are playin Stuttgart, should be a good occasion. Coverage starts at 6.15 on ESPN.

Anyone watching the Cup Final tonight?

Bayern are playin Stuttgart, should be a good occasion. Coverage starts at 6.15 on ESPN.

6.45 mate. Kick off probably 7pm.

Oh yeah just looked then, my bad. 

Bayern 1 up, Thomas Muller pen.

Bayern 1 up, Thomas Muller pen.

Is that a nib or ball point pen? 

Any links to this game?

There are no weaknesses in this Bayern side. Completely solid in all areas.

Dare I say it... German efficiency.

Well thats 2-0 after a Lahm cross is bundled home by Mario Gomez. The commentators seem to think that Gomez is almost definitely leaving in the Summer. Perhaps we could try and get him if Suarez leaves? Completely different type of striker but he is a poacher who if given service would get goals.

Gomez really is the ultimate poacher. Has he ever scored a 'good' goal?

Gomez really is the ultimate poacher. Has he ever scored a 'good' goal?

Every goal is good!

3-1

3-2 now. 10 mins to go.

The guy who scored both Stuttgart goals (Harnik) is a player I've been talking about for ages in the transfer boards. Don't think he would cost much but he's an interesting player to have. Versatile, can play wide or as a striker.

I didn't watch the match, but congratulations to Bayern Munich on winning the treble. The first German team to ever do so. Such an incredible season.

Now Germany should do something ridiculous like grant an honorary title or medal to Jupp Heynckes. I mean, if winning the treble was enough for Ferguson....