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      Simon Mignolet Player Thread: > Club Bruges

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      Magillionare
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #2622: Sep 11, 2017 04:18:19 pm
      Not fussed on this ratio stuff, surely it's better to take each shot as they come. Some shots on target are harder to save than others  (obviously).

      Anyway didn't see any go past him that any other keeper would have saved so he (for me anyway) avoids the knives.

      His distribution for the first goal however was the main cause of the goal.

      However Migs, once you get past the hyperbole is better than Karius so unless we buy a keeper he will be our league goalkeeper.

      Karius is apparently getting the champions league (which in my opinion the concept is utter nonsense but there we go) but he won't in reality fair any better.

      Sure some people might talk up Karius' saves where they talk down Mignolets, but in reality he's worse.

      When all is said and done, buy a F***ing goalkeeper Liverpool and lets have a definitive number 1 and 2.

      This cup stuff - perhaps league cup aside is pure nonsense to me.

      The ratio really bothers me. He doesn't save anything any other premier league keeper would save and he lets in goals a lot of others would save. That on top of someone who couldn't find a teammate to save his life = the worst keeper in the league. He has no redeeming qualities.
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #2623: Sep 11, 2017 04:22:56 pm
      I worry he could be one of those players who the manager has an undue amount of faith in and ends up being here for quite some time yet.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #2624: Sep 12, 2017 01:54:28 pm
      zz19a
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #2625: Sep 12, 2017 02:03:40 pm
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #2626: Sep 12, 2017 02:56:57 pm

      Every shot Mignolet ever lets in absolutely can't be saved, postage stamp stuff at 100mph+, stats are irrelevant when discussing the fantastic shot stopper with the horrific shot stopping statistics.

      Saw this on RAWK and it tries to include the degree of difficulty in the shot and just puts Simon in a league of his own at the bottom to be honest.



      Also from the same post on RAWK (credit to BabuYagu who I'm becoming a fan of since Danzel introduced me to his work):

      https://deepxg.com/2016/01/16/mid-season-goalkeeper-review/

      Those still peddling the line that "he's a great shot stopper" at this stage should honestly just stop, it's gone beyond embarrassing.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #2627: Sep 12, 2017 04:33:53 pm
      If I were Ward or Karius I would be leaving. Klopp gave Mignolet long enough to be **** and overlooked over options too long. I don't even think I would want to sit on a bench behind Mignolet.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #2628: Sep 12, 2017 04:37:16 pm
      Every shot Mignolet ever lets in absolutely can't be saved, postage stamp stuff at 100mph+, stats are irrelevant when discussing the fantastic shot stopper with the horrific shot stopping statistics.

      Saw this on RAWK and it tries to include the degree of difficulty in the shot and just puts Simon in a league of his own at the bottom to be honest.



      Also from the same post on RAWK (credit to BabuYagu who I'm becoming a fan of since Danzel introduced me to his work):

      https://deepxg.com/2016/01/16/mid-season-goalkeeper-review/

      Those still peddling the line that "he's a great shot stopper" at this stage should honestly just stop, it's gone beyond embarrassing.
      The scary thing is half the forum thought he had a good last season because he was average in the last few games and we were used to him being awful. Karius is losing key development time behind behind a keeper that shouldn't be in the premier league.
      Magillionare
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #2629: Sep 12, 2017 05:19:56 pm
      Every shot Mignolet ever lets in absolutely can't be saved, postage stamp stuff at 100mph+, stats are irrelevant when discussing the fantastic shot stopper with the horrific shot stopping statistics.

      Saw this on RAWK and it tries to include the degree of difficulty in the shot and just puts Simon in a league of his own at the bottom to be honest.



      Also from the same post on RAWK (credit to BabuYagu who I'm becoming a fan of since Danzel introduced me to his work):

      https://deepxg.com/2016/01/16/mid-season-goalkeeper-review/

      Those still peddling the line that "he's a great shot stopper" at this stage should honestly just stop, it's gone beyond embarrassing.

      Exactly. It's there to be seen. The worst keeper in the league, always has been. Those stats don't even include his distribution which is also the lowest on record in the league
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #2630: Sep 12, 2017 05:40:36 pm
      Exactly. It's there to be seen. The worst keeper in the league, always has been. Those stats don't even include his distribution which is also the lowest on record in the league
      He just kicks without even thinking. Last game he long kicked to Firmino who was marked by about 5 people. Every time a Liverpool player backpasses it is sh*t scary.
      bigmick
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #2631: Sep 12, 2017 06:01:40 pm
      I can't help thinking people are getting their nickers in a twist unduly here. Migs is a bang average Premier league goalkeeper, better than the lad at Crystal Palace, nowhere near so good as De Gea. Making him out to be worse than he is though is just being silly, I even saw someone describe the shots he saved against Man City as being "stright at him"  :lmao:.

      He is undoubtedly bang average, but whose fault is it that he is still our number one keeper, and that the bloke we bought to replace him is even worse? (I know, it's Rodgers grrrr  :mad:). He is though playing in front of a shambolic defence, which has playing in front of it a shambolic midfield in terms of defending the back four. Migs undoubtedly unnerves the buggers in front of him, but when you've got the team defending like they did on the weekend I'm sure Simon is shaking like a shiteing dog too.

      We need a new goalie, we have for years. Simple really.
      Magillionare
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #2632: Sep 12, 2017 06:18:13 pm
      He just kicks without even thinking. Last game he long kicked to Firmino who was marked by about 5 people. Every time a Liverpool player backpasses it is sh*t scary.

      I think he's been told just to kick it away. He used to make so many errors trying to play it from the back. Crazy how he wasn't fixed that in the years he's known it's a flaw
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #2633: Sep 12, 2017 08:18:01 pm
      I can't help thinking people are getting their nickers in a twist unduly here. Migs is a bang average Premier league goalkeeper, better than the lad at Crystal Palace, nowhere near so good as De Gea. Making him out to be worse than he is though is just being silly, I even saw someone describe the shots he saved against Man City as being "stright at him"  :lmao:.

      He is undoubtedly bang average, but whose fault is it that he is still our number one keeper, and that the bloke we bought to replace him is even worse? (I know, it's Rodgers grrrr  :mad:). He is though playing in front of a shambolic defence, which has playing in front of it a shambolic midfield in terms of defending the back four. Migs undoubtedly unnerves the buggers in front of him, but when you've got the team defending like they did on the weekend I'm sure Simon is shaking like a shiteing dog too.

      We need a new goalie, we have for years. Simple really.

      Mick you do need to get this gigantic chip off your shoulder.

      Yes it was Rodgers fault for replacing Reina with Migs and it is Klopp's fault for not replacing him yet, it's very simple as is the fact that John Stones and Aguero both hit their shots directly at Migs. One minute you're calling for difficulty to be factored in then when it is you come out with this silly rant about Rodgers, again. It's a tired record that should have been shelved a long time ago.

      The fact is that after such an enormous amount of games that any 'difficulty' wouldn't need factoring in because only a fool would argue that Migs has faced a disproportionate amount of difficult shots for this length of time therefore making his 'stats' look worse than the other keepers in the league who face off against the exact same players, but that's what we've had to endure as the other side of the argument for years now. It didn't wash then, it doesn't wash now.
      bigmick
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #2634: Sep 12, 2017 08:23:06 pm
      Mick you do need to get this gigantic chip off your shoulder.

      Yes it was Rodgers fault for replacing Reina with Migs and it is Klopp's fault for not replacing him yet, it's very simple as is the fact that John Stones and Aguero both hit their shots directly at Migs. One minute you're calling for difficulty to be factored in then when it is you come out with this silly rant about Rodgers, again. It's a tired record that should have been shelved a long time ago.

      The fact is that after such an enormous amount of games that any 'difficulty' wouldn't need factoring in because only a fool would argue that Migs has faced a disproportionate amount of difficult shots for this length of time therefore making his 'stats' look worse than the other keepers in the league who face off against the exact same players, but that's what we've had to endure as the other side of the argument for years now. It didn't wash then, it doesn't wash now.

       :lmao: The "I know, it's Rodgers grrrrr" line was just a joke Luke, relax fella.


       Seriously though, Migs is bang average but he ISN'T IMHO quite as bad as you and others make him out to be (not saying much I know). If he was, the boss would've got rid.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #2635: Sep 12, 2017 08:48:15 pm

      Seriously though, Migs is bang average but he ISN'T IMHO quite as bad as you and others make him out to be (not saying much I know). If he was, the boss would've got rid.

      I believe the boss is working on Karius being the number 1 and anyone that has watched the lad play previously can understand why but there comes a point where you have to say that we need someone better right now. Investing time in a young lad that 'may' be better in time (I think he will be by a long way) just needs to happen quicker.

      I also think Jürgen sees the goalkeeping position as one of the least important, as odd as that may sound. He sees it more as if we shouldn't be conceding chances or shots and that the goalkeeper should be the least worked player on the pitch. Every goal conceded has problems in other areas of the pitch first and while I agree with him on this, I would still prioritise getting in a top number 1 over developing Karius. Give the lad more pressure, if he can't handle it then here is not the place for him, but enduring another season of Migs calamities will be hard to take.

      I just hope either Karius in the CL or even Ward in the cups manage to show good enough form that convinces the boss it's time to change, because while I do think the back 4 don't help the keeper enough, neither does he help them. Sometimes you're only as strong as your weakest link and for me Simon is that weakness.
      Brian78
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #2636: Sep 12, 2017 09:32:11 pm

      I also think Jürgen sees the goalkeeping position as one of the least important, as odd as that may sound.


      If your going to refuse to get a solid back 4 then you must get a world class keeper to cover the errors of that back 4. If you organise the back 4 to be a mean shower of bas**rds then you can get away with having a decent keeper prone to errors.

      If you have a decent keeper prone to mstakes and a soft  back 4 you get Liverpool. So Klopp is wrong to see the goalkeeper spot as unimportant if thats the case
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #2637: Sep 12, 2017 09:46:03 pm
      If your going to refuse to get a solid back 4 then you must get a world class keeper to cover the errors of that back 4. If you organise the back 4 to be a mean shower of bas**rds then you can get away with having a decent keeper prone to errors.

      If you have a decent keeper prone to mstakes and a soft  back 4 you get Liverpool. So Klopp is wrong to see the goalkeeper spot as unimportant if thats the case


      I get where you're coming from Bri but we actually concede very few shots on target, despite how poor our defending can be at times. This was where I started getting frustrated with those calling Migs a great shot stopper because at the time we were conceding the least shots on target by some distance. It was that run where Migs let in the first shot on target in about 8 games on the trot, got pretty pathetic to be honest and he's heading back down to that level again imo.

      I agree with you though, whether you concede 1 shot on target a game or 50 there's no excuse in not getting a top keeper in and I'm disappointed we haven't 'gone again' for one this window so my hope turns to Karius and Ward now.

      I've always considered it the most important position in the defence, I actually like captain keepers too due to their unique perspective on the whole game and I'd absolutely love us to have a top one mate, I really think it would make the world of difference.
      Brian78
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #2638: Sep 12, 2017 09:53:03 pm
      I get where you're coming from Bri but we actually concede very few shots on target, despite how poor our defending can be at times. This was where I started getting frustrated with those calling Migs a great shot stopper because at the time we were conceding the least shots on target by some distance. It was that run where Migs let in the first shot on target in about 8 games on the trot, got pretty pathetic to be honest and he's heading back down to that level again imo.

      I agree with you though, whether you concede 1 shot on target a game or 50 there's no excuse in not getting a top keeper in and I'm disappointed we haven't 'gone again' for one this window so my hope turns to Karius and Ward now.

      I've always considered it the most important position in the defence, I actually like captain keepers too due to their unique perspective on the whole game and I'd absolutely love us to have a top one mate, I really think it would make the world of difference.

      On a side issue, one ive raised before im sure. Our record of producing our own top class keepers is pathetic for a club of out stature. As in i dont recall us ever producing one

      Tommy Lawerance??
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #2639: Sep 12, 2017 10:09:17 pm
      Still see Mignolet is the target for our 5-0 defeat.

      Where Mane got sent off, the manager threw the towel in (which was a lot worse than anything poor Simon did in that game), and his players followed suit, so it was all down to Mignolet to save everyone and everything. F**k me, you can't make this sh*t up.

      Stats now where "difficulty" is thrown into the mix. Difficulty and stats? They're not really stats anymore in the truer sense because some body's subjectivity is the emphasis of the stats rather than measurable objective data.

      Good shot stopper is Simon. Doesn't have too much else going for him, it's about right that he is termed average, was rated as the 8th best keeper in the league last season. That's probably about right, people,peddling he is the worst keeper in the league and adding all this other baggage to their narrative about him and fast becoming white noise.

      « Last Edit: Sep 12, 2017 10:13:57 pm by Beerbelly »
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #2640: Sep 12, 2017 10:15:46 pm
      On a side issue, one ive raised before im sure. Our record of producing our own top class keepers is pathetic for a club of out stature. As in i dont recall us ever producing one

      Tommy Lawerance??

      Fair point mate but would it be right to suggest that not many top teams produce top keepers? I honestly don't know the answer to that one but it feels to my limited knowledge that they don't.
      redindian
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #2641: Sep 12, 2017 10:37:40 pm
      On a side issue, one ive raised before im sure. Our record of producing our own top class keepers is pathetic for a club of out stature. As in i dont recall us ever producing one

      Tommy Lawerance??

      This is a great point. I can think of only Saint and Valdes in the recent past. Atlético produced DDG who went to United anyway. Is it safe to say that there is one or two goalies at the max produced by club academies who go on to become legends for big clubs?

      Restricting myself to the post 90s era
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #2642: Sep 12, 2017 10:55:02 pm
      This is a great point. I can think of only Saint and Valdes in the recent past. Atlético produced DDG who went to United anyway. Is it safe to say that there is one or two goalies at the max produced by club academies who go on to become legends for big clubs?

      Restricting myself to the post 90s era

      Casillas is the only one I can think of tbh, how about Buffon? Was Parma big back then? I can't remember!

      I tell you what, Grabara from the little I have seen of him looks to be a keeper, but would we ever risk playing an inexperienced kid between the post?
      redindian
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #2643: Sep 12, 2017 11:39:46 pm
      but would we ever risk playing an inexperienced kid between the post?

      Guess this is the main question, isn't it? The dilemma between giving chances to kids and the cost of dropping points. I saw a few posts that did not want us to play Karius (who isn't really a novice)  in the CL because he was inexperienced. 

      I guess Donnarumma is a good example. But, how much of it was it driven by Milan's position at that time and how much by Raoila's pressure.. I am just thinking aloud on this part.
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #2644: Sep 13, 2017 12:17:37 am
      but would we ever risk playing an inexperienced kid between the post?

      Don't think sticking with Migs is a better decision. At least there is the room for a younger keeper to develop and improve. Migs has been with us about 5 years now and I think he is actually getting worse. A team might only have a handful of shots on goal against us over the 90 minutes but its pretty much a given now that out of the handful of shots on target, a couple of them will be going in. Was it last season, he faced something like 9 shots on target but had conceded 7 goals (cant remember the figures for sure but it was along these lines).

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