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      "If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."

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      what-a-hit-son
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      • t: @MrPrice1979 i: @klmprice101518
      Re: "If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."
      Reply #92: Jul 30, 2013 01:03:15 pm
      This thread is just the FSG, Brendan Rodgers and Pepe Reina threads in one with Carlos standing at the top not having to move around too much to throw sh*t down at the rest of us.

      He can just sit off in here all day now, happy!
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: "If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."
      Reply #93: Jul 30, 2013 01:09:47 pm
      Don't forget Rafa bought Reina immidiately after Dudek's best performance of his career in Istanbul.


      A factual error there!

      Rafa actually sorted the deal before Istanbul, read Pepe's book, he says in it he was watching the game, knowing he was a Liverpool player.



      Roddenberry
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      Re: "If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."
      Reply #94: Jul 30, 2013 01:10:00 pm

      Read it again, I never said you had a problem with other people having opinions, I said your problem questioning other fans support, because of their opinion.  It's out of order, though you're not the only one.
      Stevie-G
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      Re: "If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."
      Reply #95: Jul 30, 2013 01:14:13 pm
      A factual error there!

      Rafa actually sorted the deal before Istanbul, read Pepe's book, he says in it he was watching the game, knowing he was a Liverpool player.




      My mistake then. Anyway the point here was any manager wants their own players. Dudek was also here for 6 years but Rafa decided for his own choice, just like I see Brendan doing it right now.
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: "If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."
      Reply #96: Jul 30, 2013 03:04:42 pm
      Thought you were puting me in ignore BBB.
      Nah mate I said: "I'll stick you on 'ignore' - you do the same and we won't ruin anymore threads with this bickering." Then asked you if that was "Fair enough?" 

      Now as you didn't answer my question but did quote me here: http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,44335.msg1491508.html#msg1491508 - I assumed that my proposal did not suit you. It wouldn't be very fair, or mannerly for me to ignore you, when you weren't ignoring me, so I didn't. I trust this clears that up.

      But not shocked you haven't and not shocked that you've yet again called me a liar.
      That's how I've read it 'berry. I don't know what else to say.  :-\

      Of course I accepted what happened, because it happened
      Then there is absolutely no reason to question Blood (or anyone else) about their "position" regarding Kenny Dalglish's points return. 'Cause...

      If you accepted it then it doesn't take a genius to figure out that maybe others have done just the same as you. If you have, as you say, accepted it then why do you keep bringing it up? It's your constant need to remind us of how bad Kenny's last season was which brings into question your credibility; why can't you see that mate?

      I mean this: I will readily let this go if you will; fair enough?  :confused-smiley-013:

      I just pointed out it wasn't all rosy and got jumped on.
      Exactly like what you (and others like you) do when anyone dares to point out that things, with Brendan and (in particular FSG), aren't exactly Rosy now.

      If it's not fair that you got jumped on then it can't be fair that others are suffering the same fate now [tho' now it's more arrogance and patronisingly being talked down do than being 'jumped on' tbh].

      Listen 'berry, like I said earlier; I am more than happy to bury the hatchet and move on but it takes your agreement before that can happen.

      I won't be posting in this c**t of a thread thread again mate.  >:D
      « Last Edit: Jul 30, 2013 03:27:22 pm by bad boy bubby »
      Roddenberry
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      Re: "If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."
      Reply #97: Jul 30, 2013 04:26:33 pm
      Nah mate I said: "I'll stick you on 'ignore' - you do the same and we won't ruin anymore threads with this bickering." Then asked you if that was "Fair enough?" 


      That's that one cleared up then.

      Now as you didn't answer my question but did quote me here: Then there is absolutely no reason to question Blood (or anyone else) about their "position" regarding Kenny Dalglish's points return. 'Cause...

      Actually I did reply, via PM.

      If you accepted it then it doesn't take a genius to figure out that maybe others have done just the same as you. If you have, as you say, accepted it then why do you keep bringing it up? It's your constant need to remind us of how bad Kenny's last season was which brings into question your credibility; why can't you see that mate?

      Constant need?  Barely a percentage of my posts, it just seems to get right up your craw and people bring up the cup runs far more often.  I see no problem talking about the whole, you clearly do.

      I mean this: I will readily let this go if you will; fair enough?  :confused-smiley-013:

      If something scomes up and it's worth discussing, whether you think it is or not, I'll discuss it.

      Exactly like what you (and others like you) do when anyone dares to point out that things, with Brendan and (in particular FSG), aren't exactly Rosy now.

      Haven't said they are, have said we shouldn't discuss it, as you have.

      If it's not fair that you got jumped on then it can't be fair that others are suffering the same fate now [tho' now it's more arrogance and patronisingly being talked down do than being 'jumped on' tbh].
       

      It certainly is patronisng, have considered changing your posting style. ;)

      Listen 'berry, like I said earlier; I am more than happy to bury the hatchet and move on but it takes your agreement before that can happen.

      Their is no hatchet, just a difference of opinion and you, despite being told different seemingly knowing, somewhat arrogantly one might imply, to know what I'm thinking or implying with posts.

      I won't be posting in this c**t of a thread thread again mate.  >:D

      Which is a shame, because I have no problem discussing issues with you, but you've got you knickers in a twist about something and nothing, that happened but you don't like being discussed.
      bigmick
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      Re: "If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."
      Reply #98: Jul 30, 2013 05:22:58 pm
      The trouble is with putting posters on "ignore" is of course that despite yourself, you want to read what they're on about, to see if they're slagging you off and stuff. I personally never could resist "unignoring" them and having a sneaky peek. If two posters put each other on ignore, it gets ridiculous. Like having a quick draw gun fight in the pitch darkness, and unbeknown to each of you all your bullets are blanks. Never gets anyone anywhere that doesn't.
      waltonl4
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      Re: "If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."
      Reply #99: Jul 30, 2013 10:08:57 pm
      A factual error there!

      Rafa actually sorted the deal before Istanbul, read Pepe's book, he says in it he was watching the game, knowing he was a Liverpool player.




      It could be argued it was his only decent game, so many mistakes by Dudek.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: "If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."
      Reply #100: Aug 02, 2013 03:15:20 am
      That's fine mate, it's your prerogative.

      But don't put up all these posts calling the owners and the manager bullshitters and shysters and denigrating every decision they make in August then try to claim any part of the success they bring (if they do) in May.

      Be man enough to stick to your guns and acknowledge that success will be despite you not because of you.
      Although I understand your point. Your argument is completely flawed. Unfortunatly the Supporters, Liverpool Football Club, FSG and Brendan Rodgers dont exist in a vacuum. They share a symbiotic relationship and any decision made in June/July does and will have an Impact in April.  Your assumption that one cannot disagree with or be upset with certain decisions over the span of the season, unless you publicly forgo any future support or revel in any success is ridiculous.

      Your opinion is nothing more than what "bandwagon" fans do. Fake allegiance, blind loyalty, no opinions and no passion and then when they win claim how big of a fan you are.

      If I followed your reasoning and posted a critical thread about transfers or ownership, I could not be happy about a cup win or league title and I have to admit how you were right and I was wrong?  You dont see that as a bit conceited and arrogant?

      Finally...you posted.

      "It's to discuss whether or not supporters who oppose the manager /owners should be entitled to share in the eventual success that said hierarchy brings."

      What criteria do you use to determine the level of ones "Support"?  I can honestly say that I consider myself a Liverpool Supporter. Am I less of a supporter because I have never been to a match at Anfield? Am I less of a supporter because I dont live in Liverpool? Or, since I have more posts on this forum than you, does that make me a bigger supporter of Liverpool Football?

      To be honest it seems that the majority of your comments and posts are more geared towards arguments and winding people up. I think you need to spend more time on being a "Supporter". That includes making connections on this forum and talking to other Liverpool Supporters. I have had my share of debates on here and some have agreed and disagreed, but I know when I eventually make the trip and go to Liverpool, I can meet some forum members and have a pint and go to the match.  Calling people out and challenging their loyalty based on your opinion is just weird and arrogant.
       
      « Last Edit: Aug 02, 2013 03:55:31 am by YANK_LFC_FAN »
      Carlos Qiqabal
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      Re: "If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."
      Reply #101: Aug 02, 2013 05:52:32 am
      Although I understand your point. Your argument is completely flawed.
       /snip/

      No, I don't think you do understand the point or follow my reasoning.

      As I wrote in the OP then re-emphasised several time in the thread (often within the same post) there's absolutely nothing wrong with discussions, legitimate concerns or criticisms - in fact maintaining a skepticism is healthy.

      I'm talking about a different phenomenon. To prevent myself bouncing my head at high velocity off a brick wall ill trust you to re-read what has actually been written in the thread rather than typing it out again. If you still disagree - that's perfectly fine.

      As for your advice on being a better supporter - which of my opinions do you think are "designed to wind people up"? My support for the manager or understanding of what the owners are doing?

      My bad - lesson learned.
      Scottbot
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      Re: "If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."
      Reply #102: Aug 02, 2013 03:33:39 pm
      This is a thread which is destined to end in wars. Everyone on here is a genuine fan who wants the best for the club, we just differ sometimes in how to get there. I'm sure everyone will celebrate if we do well and so they should, lets face it we've waited long enough.


      First time i've ventured into this thread but this says it all for me.

      It's an inflamatory OP for me and will only produce arguments. Don't know if that is what was intended?
      Paisleydalglish
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      Re: "If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."
      Reply #103: Aug 02, 2013 03:35:34 pm

      First time i've ventured into this thread but this says it all for me.

      It's an inflamatory OP for me and will only produce arguments. Don't know if that is what was intended?

      Same for me Scott, read the first post when it was made and left it there.

      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: "If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."
      Reply #104: Aug 07, 2013 01:31:44 am

      As for your advice on being a better supporter - which of my opinions do you think are "designed to wind people up"? My support for the manager or understanding of what the owners are doing?
       

      I could go through any number of your posts and pull out examples of you being rude, arrogant and just looking for a argument. The fact that the Mod's have issued you a warning is example enough.

      As to the postings in question. Its not having a specific opinion that comes across as "Winding up". Its the overall essence of your opinions and replys to others who happen to disagree with those opinions.  The wording in which you use, can come across as condescending and arrogant. You will purposely troll previous posts and threads looking for 'Evidence" to call out the forum members who did nothing but disagree with a specific statement of yours. You take the stand as being the be all,end all of "Supporter" and if your personal definition of supporter is not meant then that person should not be allowed to enjoy a win or Cup title.  Its arrogant and condescending. Your opinion is YOUR opinion. Disagreeing with a coach or owner or player and having feelings, whether joy, anger or complete despair is all part of being a supporter. I happen to go against many on here and think Brendan Rodgers is a good coach, he made mistakes with Reina and many on this forum dont like what he did and dont trust him. But, I like his style of coaching, I think he brings a new feeling to the club, he is instilling a good, style of play and is trying to build something. But thats my opinion.

      Your plan of going back through the threads and looking for forum members who disagree with certain aspects of club decisions, then using those posts to prove your superior in terms of support, then calling other forum members pussies and assholes is an example of "Winding" people up.

      For example....."Do what you like  - as with your rapid double reversal of support for Suarez it's all on record - and trust me, I will happily be referring to it if the Gods are kind to us and we bring true success back to this club. "

      And this post...."The only thing I would add is that the forum is blessed with many arseholes, not just one. In addition there are also a fair number of pussies who make catty insults indirectly as in your post above. So, take your pick, which one are you?".

      How is that NOT winding people up?  C'mon man. Thats not debating or discussing. Thats making enemies on the forum. 

      I said it previously. I actually "met" people on here who I want to meet and have a beer with and go to a match.  I have never been to the UK and when I do go, I can find people on this forum, contact them through this forum, drink some pints at a pub near the ground and go to the match with them.  Thats because of this forum. So, I get more from this forum than just debate and it would benefit you to do the same.
      vulcan_red
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      Re: "If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."
      Reply #105: Aug 07, 2013 03:28:50 am
      I can find people on this forum, contact them through this forum, drink some pints at a pub near the ground and go to the match with them.

      You would probably end up in a gimp outfit, locked in a cellar somewhere in Manchester.
      I wouldn't trust any bast*rd on the Internet.
      Carlos Qiqabal
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      Re: "If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."
      Reply #106: Aug 07, 2013 07:25:19 am

      This thread is not about me.

      Since you took the trouble to write however, I will address your main points.

      First of all, I'm happy to discuss with anyone in a respectful manner - but I'm happy to give as good as I get. Unfortunately, people don't like to hear unpalatable truths and for every time you think I'm being insulting you will find that the person in speaking to has usually been directly insulting to me. If someone calls me a **** I don't particularly see any reason why I should have to pull my punches. In the second quote you gave the poster pointed out I had misconstrued his words to be an attack and I apologised unreservedly to him.

      Secondly, if you think I'm too convinced about my own opinion, tough. I happen to believe what I say and it's no particular crime so I'm afraid you'll have to live with it. If someone gives a convincing counterfactual or a different way of looking at things in happy to change my opinion.

      Thirdly, it is quite funny that you have been railing against me telling other people how to be better supporters (which is broadly missing the point by the way) and yet spending paragraph after paragraph telling me how to be a better poster. I guess this is why they say Americans don't get irony.
      MIRO
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      Re: "If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."
      Reply #107: Aug 07, 2013 07:37:37 am
      But then I haven't spent all my time bitching and moaning in 27,833 posts, I'm usually quite positive.

      But I'm  also a realist, I wouldn't call Brendan out on being a bull shi**er if he never gave me the Ammunition to.


      Thank you Red. Well said.



      For my part my head is still down on the railway line listening (and counting down) for the train coming with the new TEAM players !
      Needle and record.
      « Last Edit: Aug 07, 2013 07:47:32 am by eurored »
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: "If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."
      Reply #108: Aug 07, 2013 08:54:02 am
      Do what you like  - as with your rapid double reversal of support for Suarez it's all on record

      Ahh my rapid double reversal of support for Suarez.

      To steal a phrase from yourself.

      I at least have the courage of my convictions. It's the difference between a c**t and a pussy.

      All that time spent telling people Suarez had been mistranslated, how did that work out for you  :f_whistle:


      Dannylfc
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      Re: "If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."
      Reply #109: Aug 07, 2013 10:55:18 am
      Well, having Kik back on the forum certainly produces a bit more entertainment, if anything.

      Also, not to piss on anybodys bonfire, but the quote used for the OP that has been championed as a Shankly 'statement' in recent years was never actually said by the great man himself, as confirmed by numerous biographers. Not sure where it came from exactly, although I do like the sentiment.

      I do get the jist of what you're trying to say, but this topic was destined to end in tears.
      Carlos Qiqabal
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      Re: "If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."
      Reply #110: Aug 07, 2013 11:03:12 am
      Which posts are you talking about - more than happy to explain them if you have a particular example?

      From the Suarez thread that was deleted a few days ago I pointed out that the real issue here was that the playre, agent and Arsenal all clearly feel that a promise was made that he could leave bebe te attempted activation of the clause but that we were right to be ruthless.

      The Guardian interview clearly indicates that was the case - so, in answer to your question, it's working out pretty well actually :)
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: "If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."
      Reply #111: Aug 07, 2013 12:20:54 pm

      What's that manc c**t got to do with this!
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: "If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."
      Reply #112: Aug 07, 2013 12:42:27 pm
      Working quite well ?

      You were insisting you were right about Suarez, that he'd been subject to mistranslation and misquatation, you tried to paint me as a lesser fan who can't celebrate in the clubs success if any was forth coming for basically calling bullshit on Suarez's reasons for wanting to leave.

      Were not all wet between the ears lad, I called it as seen it, looks like I was right all along, unfortunately.
      Carlos Qiqabal
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      Re: "If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."
      Reply #113: Aug 07, 2013 12:56:50 pm
      Like I said if there's a specific post I woul be happy to have a look at it - I suspecting I probably said something like we should treat the reports with caution as we had seen lots I problems previously with both tea elation and a biased media.

      Don't really think that's an unreasonable stance but as I said I'd be happy to look at a specific post if you have an example.

      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: "If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."
      Reply #114: Aug 08, 2013 10:19:03 pm
      This thread is not about me.

      Since you took the trouble to write however, I will address your main points.

      First of all, I'm happy to discuss with anyone in a respectful manner - but I'm happy to give as good as I get. Unfortunately, people don't like to hear unpalatable truths and for every time you think I'm being insulting you will find that the person in speaking to has usually been directly insulting to me. If someone calls me a **** I don't particularly see any reason why I should have to pull my punches. In the second quote you gave the poster pointed out I had misconstrued his words to be an attack and I apologised unreservedly to him.

      Secondly, if you think I'm too convinced about my own opinion, tough. I happen to believe what I say and it's no particular crime so I'm afraid you'll have to live with it. If someone gives a convincing counterfactual or a different way of looking at things in happy to change my opinion.

      Thirdly, it is quite funny that you have been railing against me telling other people how to be better supporters (which is broadly missing the point by the way) and yet spending paragraph after paragraph telling me how to be a better poster. I guess this is why they say Americans don't get irony.


      Honestly the fact that you dont see yourself as being rude and condescending and actually consider your postings as being " In a respectful manner" is exactly why the Admins and Mods have warned you about your content and postings. 

      Where have I been telling you how to be a better poster?  I said your posts, which are numerous across this forum, are for the most part, condescending,arrogant,rude,attacking,disrespectful and at times idiotic. Your making claims that anyone who wont follow your personal strict "Hierarchy" of support must publicly admit how wrong they were and praise you for your Club allegiance.

      You state  " if you think I'm too convinced about my own opinion, tough. I happen to believe what I say and it's no particular crime so I'm afraid you'll have to live with it."   Your right, I dont give a F**k what you think....but you then claim any opinion counter to yours is deserved of some sort of Supporter Banishment, where those not following your specific set of guidelines are not allowed to enjoy a league title or Cup win.

      Finally, I'm not telling you or anyone how to be a better supporter or poster. Personally Carlos, I dont really give a sh*t what you do or say and I have a feeling quite a few other forum members feel the exact same way, so do what you want. But, your amazing ability of making enemies, making smart ass comments and alluding to the fact that the other forum members are not worthy of being a supporter, is not the way to remain a member of the forum.  All I said was it would serve you well to make connections and talk to people instead of talking down to them and winding people up. 

      Oh, by the way, I do understand Irony. For example, I know 2 other guys named Carlos and their both dickheads, Ironic huh?

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