"If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."

/snip/

Thanks for the considered reply Federer.

However that's really NOT what I'm talking about - sounds like you've read the original post a couple of times and might not have caught up with the rest if the thread so with permission ill reprint an earlier post:

/snip/

Think about those fans who were booing Rafa when we drew with West Ham to go top of the table. That growing negativity eventually resulted in Rafa leaving the club. I don't think the board could have got rid of him if every fan was united in keeping him here.

Had Rafa managed to stay and win the title in 2009 - do you think those that booed him and led to him leaving were entitled to share in his success?

Isn't it ridiculous that the owners, manager and players at LFC have all these high ideals to live upto yet the fan can act exactly as he or she wishes and all the negativity, the  insults and the brickbats can be conveniently forgotten if the club manages to achieve anything?

In my opinion that's completely wrong - success has been achieved despite those people not because of them - that much should be self-evident.

Again, just to emphasise, we are not talking about fans having legitimate concerns - we are talking about people who will use any excuse to cast our manager or owners as liars, bullshitters, charlatans and have an obvious agenda which they prosecute against them no matter what the evidence.

Now as you rightly say we must always be vigilant against another H&G but surely we must also be careful of the pendulum swinging too far the other way too?

I occasionally peeked into the Chelsea forums when Rafa was manager and, frankly, there was little difference with some of the posts I see here where every single decision was criticised and derided and a negativity and cynicism was allowed to forment which found its way onto the terraces and caused the team real harm. In my mind those fans had no right to participate in Rafa's eventual success which he achieved despite them rather than because of them - perhaps you feel differently?

It's this hypocrisy which makes me question why the supporters seem to be exempt from the same standards we hold the owners, management, players and staff too.

Just to re-emphasise (again) I'm not talking about discussion of legitimate concerns but the promotion of agendas above the good of the club.

/snip/

Yes, right on Bigmick, I agree with most of this.

The only thing I would add is that the forum is blessed with many arseholes, not just one.

In addition there are also a fair number of pussies who make catty insults indirectly as in your post above.

So, take your pick, which one are you?

Work that one out!

Not the greatest of threads this.

Looks to me like a topic intended to antagonise and cause division.

I'm guessing you still have to grasp the fundamentals of a forum.  Where people discuss matters sometimes with vastly differening opinions.

/snip/

Well fair enough - you're the boss.

I have to say it irks me that the same people who have been trying to undermine the players we have bought, the owners we have and are calling our manager a liar will conveniently forget all of that opposition and pretend it was some form of "support" if we win anything. Even the Chelsea fans weren't that hypocritical with Rafa.

Probably the same position as yours berry.

He didn't want him sacked and he didn't believe Kenny should be saked - the "performance" therefore becomes irrelevant. It's very simple to understand.

The only difference between blood, me and you is that we actually meant it when we said it, you didn't. Otherwise you would have realised, long before now, that if you wanted Kenny to stay, you are by default, accepting what went before.
It's laughable that our support is being questioned by two fsg fans who stuck and stick the knife into  kenny  every chance they get. 

Thought you were puting me in ignore BBB.  But not shocked you haven't and not shocked that you've yet again called me a liar.  Of course I accepted what happened, because it happened, I just pointed out it wasn't all rosy and got jumped on. Not once did I say it was a good thing, even though you inferred I did or for some unknown reason thought I thought I did. Blood actually stated the performance does matter and I've always thought it mattered.  This unwillingness of yours to understand or discuss it is weird though as your usually so open to debate and questioning results and actions that affect our club.

And as for you inferred slur, I'm a Liverpool fan, first and foremost and you too can F**k off with your FSG fanboy sh*te, I just have a different opinion on some subjects and if you can't see that maybe you're not as intelligent as I, and of course yourself, think you are.

Yes, right on Bigmick, I agree with most of this.

The only thing I would add is that the forum is blessed with many arseholes, not just one.

In addition there are also a fair number of pussies who make catty insults indirectly as in your post above.

So, take your pick, which one are you?

Work that one out!

 I didn't make any catty insults mate, if it came across that way my apologies. I do agree the forums got more than one @rsehole, everyone on it behaves like an @rsehole from time to time including me. There's only a couple of permanent WUM's on here who are properly fitting of the @rsehole description, everyone else (including you, me and everyone who disagrees with me about stuff) is just an @rsehole occasionally.

 I didn't make any catty insults mate, if it came across that way my apologies. I do agree the forums got more than one @rsehole, everyone on it behaves like an @rsehole from time to time including me. There's only a couple of permanent WUM's on here who are properly fitting of the @rsehole description, everyone else (including you, me and everyone who disagrees with me about stuff) is just an @rsehole occasionally.

In sorry mate - thought you were lining up to have a go - my apologies I should have known better from your posting history which I always enjoy reading.

I have to say it irks me that the same people who have been trying to undermine the players we have bought, the owners we have and are calling our manager a liar will conveniently forget all of that opposition and pretend it was some form of "support" if we win anything. Even the Chelsea fans weren't that hypocritical with Rafa.

I feel for you Carlos - with a differing view and a strong standpoint you make some excellent and valid points. We all want the same thing here, we are all fans.

However, you then come out with this, a direct comparason between our fans and Chelsea fans and appear to make them the better supporters. This is where you have lost me, and shown that your passion is now spilling over into lunacy.

I feel for you Carlos - with a differing view and a strong standpoint you make some excellent and valid points. We all want the same thing here, we are all fans.

However, you then come out with this, a direct comparason between our fans and Chelsea fans and appear to make them the better supporters. This is where you have lost me, and shown that your passion is now spilling over into lunacy.

In not saying all our fans are like that - just a small, negative, proportion.

As supporters some are equally as bad as the Chelsea fans but UNLIKE those Chelsea fans they then want all their non-support to be forgotten if we actually win anything! At least the majority of the Chelsea fans who hated Rafa cheerfully acknowledged it even after he lifted the Europa Cup and admitted they had made his job harder ie they weren't supporting him and wanted him out of the club.

Which do you think is worse?

I think it's insane that backing our own manger is seen as divisive whereas those people calling him a liar and a bullshitter are listened to and agreed with!

How can you support something that no longer represents you? Our owners ambitions don't match ours.

LFC is a shadow of itself, the era of Moores & Parry looks golden compared to our current sad state.

The money men have raped this club financially for the past 5 years and will continue to do so.

In not saying all our fans are like that - just a small, negative, proportion.

As supporters some are equally as bad as the Chelsea fans but UNLIKE those Chelsea fans they then want all their non-support to be forgotten if we actually win anything! At least the majority of the Chelsea fans who hated Rafa cheerfully acknowledged it even after he lifted the Europa Cup and admitted they had made his job harder ie they weren't supporting him and wanted him out of the club.

Which do you think is worse?

I think it's insane that backing our own manger is seen as divisive whereas those people calling him a liar and a bullshitter are listened to and agreed with!

Your sentement is true - dont piss and moan through the bad times but expect the glory in the good times. But again, you are compairing apples and ladders - our fans are better than the Chavs. No debate here, even the bad fans are comparable to the best fans they have. Fans who hang banners out in cup finals saying Rafa out then chear when John Terry comes on in a full kit after not playing and applaude him.

To be honest, BR has made a meal of this by saying one thing and doing another. He has played us for fools and as a fan I have and reserve the right to call him on this - does it make me a bad fan..? Personally, I think it makes me a fan who wants our club to be the best and ran by the best. We cant ask Shanks etal what they think of this situation - but one true legend we could ask (I doubt we would get an answer) is King Kenny. Now, I cant speak for the great man, but I could guess what his views are.

Again, just to emphasise, we are not talking about fans having legitimate concerns - we are talking about people who will use any excuse to cast our manager or owners as liars, bullshitters, charlatans and have an obvious agenda which they prosecute against them no matter what the evidence.

Errrrmmm get to F**k.

Has Brendan Rodgers not gave 4 different stories regarding Reina's situation all of which directly contradicted each other ?

Is that not the 'Evidence'to show that Rodgers has indeed 'Bullshitted' us ?

Tell you what that Brendan Rodgers lovely chap, fantastic manager, has no faults at all, he's boss as F**k, and don't get me started on FSG, John Henry is so great I'd love to take his trouser Salami in my mouth.

Now can I can enjoy the success of the club I've supported for 30 years ?

Pretty please with a Tom Werner Pile of poop on top ?

Only one thing worth posting in here tbh....Carlos Qiqabal you're arrogance astounds me. I dont know why it should cause you daily post complete sh*te, belittle people who dont agree with you and basically think you are some super being that we should all listen to.

The very premise of the thread completely misses the point of being a football fan.
"If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."

We love the club, the players the manager and even the owners...when things are going well.....and we hate them all at one time or another. This isnt just about football, its human nature.

I am guessing you're not married....I adore my wife, but sometimes I F***ing hate the bi*ch....do I love her any less...do I F**k, she is my wife and I would kill and die for her...........just like my team.

I know everyone is entitled to their opinions, but it seems you think your opinions count more than mine...and everyone elses.

Right now I hate the owners and Brendon can F**k off today for all I care.
When he buys that superstar or gets Suarez to stay I will love him again...guess what mate, thats what being a fan is all about.

Dont bother replying to this cause I wont be back in this topic...and you are on ignore, as soon as I figure out how to do it..........not only are you a Wind Up Merchant...you're now starting wind up topics..............shov e your opinion up your arse you arrogent c**t.

The way I see it is quite simple, I wasn't convinced Brendan Rodgers was the right  man to take us forward, I've pretty much gave him the chance to prove me wrong, I've questioned his tactics and his philosophy at times and I've praised his tactics and philosophy at times other that I've been pretty much respectful of Rodgers, now when the Manager of our football club comes out blatantly lying to us the 'Fans', then I will call him out on it, its really as simple as that.

If that makes me a fan who can't enjoy any success our club has then so be it.

Just remember though, if Fans hadn't questioned H&G and called them out on their lie's and buried their heads in the sand and remained oblivious to what was going on, where would the club would be today?

I shudder to think.

I'm just pleased to be one of those Fans who questioned H&G and played a part in removing them from our club and saving it from becoming a non entity, perhaps that's the greatest success I can celebrate eh Carlos ?

Errrrmmm get to f**k.

Has Brendan Rodgers not gave 4 different stories regarding Reina's situation all of which directly contradicted each other ?

Is that not the 'Evidence'to show that Rodgers has indeed 'Bullshitted' us ?

Tell you what that Brendan Rodgers lovely chap, fantastic manager, has no faults at all, he's boss as f**k, and don't get me started on FSG, John Henry is so great I'd love to take his trouser Salami in my mouth.

Now can I can enjoy the success of the club I've supported for 30 years ?

Pretty please with a Tom Werner Pile of poop on top ?

Do what you like  - as with your rapid double reversal of support for Suarez it's all on record - and trust me, I will happily be referring to it if the Gods are kind to us and we bring true success back to this club.

Just remember though, if Fans hadn't questioned H&G and called them out on their lie's and buried their heads in the sand and remained oblivious to what was going on, where would the club would be today?

I shudder to think.

I'm just pleased to be one of those Fans who questioned H&G and played a part in removing them from our club and saving it from becoming a non entity, perhaps that's the greatest success I can celebrate eh Carlos ?

I called them out on it too - i signed the petitions, I bought the Standards Corrupted shirt but there's a big difference.

If H&G, Purlsow and Hodgson had gone on to win the FA cup with Carlton Cole knocking in a winner I wouldnt suddenly forget all of that and pretend they had my support all along - as that would make me a hypocrite.

See the difference?

Only one thing worth posting in here tbh....Carlos Qiqabal you're arrogance astounds me. I dont know why it should cause you daily post complete sh*te, belittle people who dont agree with you and basically think you are some super being that we should all listen to.

The very premise of the thread completely misses the point of being a football fan.
"If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win."

We love the club, the players the manager and even the owners...when things are going well.....and we hate them all at one time or another. This isnt just about football, its human nature.

I am guessing you're not married....I adore my wife, but sometimes I f**king hate the bi*ch....do I love her any less...do I f**k, she is my wife and I would kill and die for her...........just like my team.

I know everyone is entitled to their opinions, but it seems you think your opinions count more than mine...and everyone elses.

Right now I hate the owners and Brendon can f**k off today for all I care.
When he buys that superstar or gets Suarez to stay I will love him again...guess what mate, thats what being a fan is all about.

Dont bother replying to this cause I wont be back in this topic...and you are on ignore, as soon as I figure out how to do it..........not only are you a Wind Up Merchant...you're now starting wind up topics..............shov e your opinion up your arse you arrogent c**t.

Firstly - slagging me off in the post and denigrating my opinion is exactly what you are accusing me of.

Secondly - if that phrase is "missing the point of being a football fan" you need to find out where it comes from.

Lastly, what the **** is a staffletop?

Do what you like  - as with your rapid double reversal of support for Suarez it's all on record - and trust me, I will happily be referring to it if the Gods are kind to us and we bring true success back to this club.

Ths is a difference between you, a few other supporters and myself and blood, just because someone has a different opinion, I don't question their support or their right to revel in victory & despair in defeat.

18 days till the start of the season....

Ths is a difference between you, a few other supporters and myself and blood, just because someone has a different opinion, I don't question their support or their right to revel in victory & despair in defeat.

I have absolutely no problem with differing opinions - and there are plenty of legitimate concerns to be had - however the pendulum can swing too far the other way and harm the club.

The Chelsea fans who had a campaign against Rafa harmed the progression of their team according to David Luiz - in my view - that was the opposite of support and therefore they had no right to share in Rafa's success. They made that success harder to achieve not easier.

Just to reiterate:

I have absolutely no problem with differing opinions - and there are plenty of legitimate concerns to be had - however the pendulum can swing too far the other way and harm the club.

I called them out on it too - i signed the petitions, I bought the Standards Corrupted shirt but there's a big difference.

If H&G, Purlsow and Hodgson had gone on to win the FA cup with Carlton Cole knocking in a winner I wouldnt suddenly forget all of that and pretend they had my support all along - as that would make me a hypocrite.

See the difference?

And neither would I and I never implied I would, I support the players and would revel in their success, spot the difference ?

Grade A whopper you la'

Yep - that's highly consistent.

Support "the players" and "their" success but not the man who moved old players out, brought new players in and decided when and how those players play. And of course they have to be the "right" players too - If Suarez does teh same things as Pepe, for instance, your support is withdrawn.

I'm sure it makes sense to you.

Makes perfect sense to me mate, when Rodgers stops being a bull sh*t merchant and treats fans with the respect they deserve then he may earn my respect, the same with you, when you stop being a condescending arrogant tw*t that thinks he's above all and sundry you may earn my respect.

 First one question, would you be happy to see Barcelona make a last day approach on Reina and us remaining with Jones as our only keeper? Of course, Brendan had to buy another keeper. I think the idea first was to get real competition for him (anyone remember our interest in Jack Butland in January), and he'd spoken to Reina about it. But come the end of the season it's obvious Brendan wasn't happy at all with Reina's performances so decided to bring in another GK in Mignolet (who I though was destined to start ahead of Reina as things were standing) and make Reina's place as the first choice GK more insecure. That would only be positive and clearly make him and the team better. But the club management(the owners to be more concrete) didn't approve this, and for them it would be too expensive having 2 good kepeers with high wages in a team. And because Valdes is not leaving atm, Barcelona's interest on him had dropped, so when Napoli came calling I think Brendan had nothing to do. Anyway even if he had, I don't blame him. At the end of the day any manager would like to have his own players. Don't forget Rafa bought Reina immidiately after Dudek's best performance of his career in Istanbul. While Reina's last 3 years performances were average at best.
 As you can see, I'm an advocate of Reina's move and I thought it was the right time for him to move. Anyway I'd like to thank him very much for all he's done here and for being (when on his prime) one of the best keepers this club has ever had. And I feel really sorry for him and blame THE CLUB for not telling him earlier about Napoli's move.