The Art of Deception...

So let's see here.

1) Reina said no one told him about the loan to Napoli before, you know, it was done.

2) Suarez said Rodgers flat out lied to him, telling him he could go if we don't make CL and a £40m bid from a CL team comes in.

And now, our old friend Stewart "backpass" Downing says this:

Stewart Downing has slammed Brendan Rodgers for going back on his word to keep him at Liverpool.  And the new West Ham winger is adamant that money played no part in his decision to leave Anfield.

Mirror Sport understands that Downing has actually taken a pay-cut to join the Hammers and was desperate to get regular first-team football after signing a four-year deal.

Downing was baffled to hear comments from his former manager on Thursday that he had been offered ‘an incredible deal at West Ham and has taken that decision to go’.

The 29-year-old clearly has a different take to the story and after, he claims, being told that he was a key part of Rodgers’ plans this season, he feels the Liverpool boss had a change of heart over his future and was happy for him to leave.

“I spoke to the manager and he said he wanted me to stay. So I’m disappointed that one minute I was staying and the next minute I’m gone," said Downing.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-reject-stewart-downing-baffled-2172626#ixzz2c4oDWidN

So, which is more likely?  that Reina, Suarez and Downing are all two-faced liars who are out to get poor, helpless Rodgers?

or that our manager indeed is deceptive and stabs our own players in the backs?

And what do you think this says to potential incoming transfers, when they know that this is how they're going to be treated?

Em...

Luis Suarez has a valid contract and an obligation to fulfil his part of that contract.

Reina would remain at Liverpool ONLY if Barcelona did not come for him.

Downing??? He is at West Ham.

That is all that matters to me.

Clubs use players like commodities and vise versa:

Reina - Had been flirting with Barca for pretty much two years, had Valdes left Barca, Reina would have been there in a heartbeat. No manager can make plans like that when they've lost the commitment to play for LFC. Reina (as much as he was good in his first 5-6 yrs) can't pick and choose who he's going to play for and use the club as a second best 'thing'.

Suarez - This one I could believe. However, I'm also of the opinion he owes us.

Downing - Anyone who has seen Downing play knows the application isn't there, in two seasons he did next to nothing. The manager has a 'change of heart', big deal - that's football son. The writing was on the wall last season after Rodgers made him buck up, yet he plateaued again and became a passenger. Hiding in a Red shirt was his forte.

Em...

Luis Suarez has a valid contract and an obligation to fulfil his part of that contract.

Reina would remain at Liverpool ONLY if Barcelona did not come for him.

Downing??? He is at West Ham.

That is all that matters to me.

None of what you said is relevant. 

We go on an on about character and how we don't want someone like Suarez.  Fair enough.

But it looks no one seems to mind when we've got a manager who the players feel they can't trust.

Deceptive player?  get him out!  Deceptive manager?  oh, let's support him!

Depends when it was said, things change quickly in football, especially during a window.  Maybe Rodgers did want SD to stay, then reassessed after his pre-season showings and then West Ham came in.  Very naive to believe it's so black & white.

So let's see here.

1) Reina said no one told him about the loan to Napoli before, you know, it was done.

2) Suarez said Rodgers flat out lied to him, telling him he could go if we don't make CL and a £40m bid from a CL team comes in.

And now, our old friend Stewart "backpass" Downing says this:

I believe there is truth in what these players are saying.

Not saying if it's right or wrong of the manager to do this, just that I think there is every chance what these three have said is true.

I think we had a very similar topic to this a while back when the Reina issue came out. 

I actually think both players and managers are full of bull at times.

I think we had a very similar topic to this a while back when the Reina issue came out. 

I actually think both players and managers are full of bull at times.

I would agree with this.

Also, Rodgers definitely needs to learn when to keep his mouth closed.

Lets be honest here, does anyone care that much, here was a player who for the most part struggled to give 100% each and every time he was chosen to play,
To be fair to him he did up his game and occasionally actually played really well and stuck a few in the onion bag,

I would say most were resigned to Downing going anyhoo, so I'm not that surprised, for me it shows Brendan has alot of faith in Ibe & Raheem which is great, but I can't help feeling that wage bill reduction was a major factor in this transfer,

Thanks Stewart for all your efforts whilst here & best of British at the Bolyen ground.

So let's see here.

1) Reina said no one told him about the loan to Napoli before, you know, it was done.

2) Suarez said Rodgers flat out lied to him, telling him he could go if we don't make CL and a £40m bid from a CL team comes in.

And now, our old friend Stewart "backpass" Downing says this:


So, which is more likely?  that Reina, Suarez and Downing are all two-faced liars who are out to get poor, helpless Rodgers?

or that our manager indeed is deceptive and stabs our own players in the backs?

And what do you think this says to potential incoming transfers, when they know that this is how they're going to be treated?

You definitely make a point Fed and I'm surprised by the lack of care in the replies. Basically as long as it's good for us, it shouldn't matter, well personally I'm not a fan of sh*t on all and sundry and trample on who you can to get to the top. Never thought that was 'The Liverpool Way' in the past and still don't feel it is now.

There's a level of integrity, respect and honour that goes with the LFC manager's job and upholding these values we hold strong as a club is also part of the managers job. When I say 'we', the largest part of this club is the fans and 'we' do dictate the moral choices our club makes by our decision to offer our continued support.

I think 3 players coming out and basically saying the same thing is conclusive so trying to suggest there is any doubt about this now would just seem overly defensive and ignorant to the truth. I once had a boss who was dubbed 'the smiling assassin' he'd tell you that you were amazing to your face then sack you without remorse within the hour, the basis behind this was to get the most out of you while you were the employee but ultimately do what is best for the company too.

The question you have to ask is if this level of ruthlessness is needed to get us back to the top? While we obviously want to get there as quick as possible I don't think you need to be disrespectful, dishonourable and dishonest to do it. I am personally disappointed in Brendan deceiving our players, I don't think it sends out the messages for future targets and it gives the wrong message to our fans as to what is acceptable when faced with difficult circumstances.

I know from my experience with 'the smiling assassin' that being truthful, open and ultimately respect the employees had more fruitful results in the long term. So while Brendan may feel appearing ruthless sends out a message of power, in truth I actually see it as a weakness and makes you question the rest of their character if they're willing to make such choices.

Reina leaving would of been down to the owners more than Rodgers. In today's game, if a deal that suits the owners comes in for a player then the player will leave regardless of what the manager wants. Hence why more and more players are joining "rival" clubs now.

Suarez was proven to be a liar so what he says doesn't really matter now. He lied about being told he could go, he lied about it being in his contract, he lied about almost everything over the summer.

Downing being told he was a big part of the plans? Can't really see any truth in that (though I'm sure someone will only be too happy to point me in the direction of the article where Rodgers has said it). Rodgers made it perfectly clear he wanted shut of Downing in January, now he wants him as a key member of the squad? Nah sorry.

So in all honesty I fail to see all this deception especially when it comes from 2 players who've left and one who wants out more than anything.

Excellent post by KopiteLuke. I too find it a little disconcerting that Brendon appears to be "less than truthful" in his dealings and feel that it could eventually bite him back as players learn to take what he says with a large pinch of salt.

I think selling Downing may prove a mistake unless we sign Willian. £5million for a decent versatile squad player doesn't seem adequate reason to sell for me. Especially as the squad is not exactly overloaded at the moment. No he didn't break any pots while he was here, but for me he was a steady 7 out of ten performer last season and added balance to the side.

If we don't sign Willian (or equivalent) we may be in a similar position to last season when we loaned out Carroll and failed to sign Dempsey..... one option down before we start.   



 

Probably told Downing he was a key part of the plan because he wanted him to perform pre-season and get as much for him as possible. Otherwise Downing might sit it out with no interest and stick around for another year.

Pepe was probably honest with LFC and wanted honesty in return.

Suarez is a very good footballer not playing CL. We need him and are not going to sell him for 40 mill.

I don't think BR has much say over transfers at all otherwise he would have brought some players in at a net spend. He hasn't, we have only been clipping the wage bill. FSG who handle transfers probably handle players the baseball way ..' you're moving on .. call this bloke he'll handle the details'

this thread feels like a rehash of the "was Reina deceived" or whatever it was called thread.

there's no doubt the gaffer likes the sound of his own voice but then we knew that anyway. I can't see that there is anything particularly new here tbh?

Suarez also said in January that Liverpool were "the club of his dreams" and he would stay even if we didn't achieve UCL qualification. 6 months later he came out desperate to leave the club, speaking of promises made that he could leave if that was the case. Doesn't sound very consistent, does he? No, he doesn't, but then again, why expose both sides of the coin when you can stick to the one that suits your logic, right? Perhaps it's not just Brendan who is good at the art of deception.

Suarez also said in January that Liverpool were "the club of his dreams" and he would stay even if we didn't achieve UCL qualification. 6 months later he came out desperate to leave the club, speaking of promises made that he could leave if that was the case. Doesn't sound very consistent, does he? No, he doesn't, but then again, why expose both sides of the coin when you can stick to the one that suits your logic, right? Perhaps it's not just Brendan who is good at the art of deception.

Nah Diego, he's also a liar, it's as simple as that. Using the lack of vilification for Suarez as a defence in this has no logic whatsoever. Suarez has received plenty and justified criticism for those comments and you'll find that the level of support he now has has diminished massively. Rodgers could do with learning that lesson also, before his support, which has been overwhelming so far, may start to ebb away also.

I do believe that Brendan has been gifted with a very easy time of things from the supporters given his many awful soundbites and the distractions have worked in his favour. Hopefully he's a quick learner though and start to put these mistakes behind him because I struggle to respect a liar in whatever guise you want to paint those lies.

Remember when opposition fans used to sing  'Sit down Pinochio' to Phil Thompson ?

If they pay as much attention to Rodgers  as we do, it may make a come back. 

So let's see here.

1) Reina said no one told him about the loan to Napoli before, you know, it was done.

2) Suarez said Rodgers flat out lied to him, telling him he could go if we don't make CL and a £40m bid from a CL team comes in.

And now, our old friend Stewart "backpass" Downing says this:


So, which is more likely?  that Reina, Suarez and Downing are all two-faced liars who are out to get poor, helpless Rodgers?

or that our manager indeed is deceptive and stabs our own players in the backs?

And what do you think this says to potential incoming transfers, when they know that this is how they're going to be treated?

I wont be making excuses like some of the other members.

Excuses like:
"He was dubious about Pepe..But thats OK, Pepe said he wanted to go to Barca, so Its not BR's fault."
BR said we had competition for places then let Pepe go

"The Suarez mess is all Luis fault cause he is a c**t basically..he didnt have a release clause and he talks sh*t."
Suarez obviously firmly believed he DID have a release clause AND someones word that he would be allowed to leave

And who cares about Downing he wasn't good enough anyway."
OK he wasnt a world beater, and maybe its best that he did leave, but its another player who is calling BR out on his comments.

In short Fed, I agree with you mate. Brendon is a sly bugger.

A few weeks ago (when Pepe left) I was extremely angry with BR. I have calmed down a lot since then. He is still a good manager, I think he is doing well (despite not being given full financial support from above), and I am optimistic about the future with him in charge.
But when he opens his mouth I take it with a pinch of salt now.

The Art of Bullshit..... by federer

The Art of Bullshit..... by federer

What in his post is bullshit? You make yourself look an idiot for just throwing insults out without foundation, so congratulations.

The art of lack of contribution by Son Of A Gun, would that be fair?

I'll tell you what KopiteLuke - it's another example of some bit of sour grapes from an underachieving player who has earnt a hefty wage from us paying fans trying to pin the blame on someone. And it's another example of some tiny little problem being blown up on this forum as if it's a F***ing catastrophe.

So if we're having a pop at Brendan, then why don't we have a pop at all the players who have criticised his decisions? Reina, Suarez and Downing are hardly innocent in all of this and it all sounds like sour grapes to me.

Brendan didn't 'betray' anyone. Reina and Downing were the prime architects in their move, just like Suarez is in his. People can moan that Rodger's actions is not 'the Liverpool Way', but I thought loyalty to the club was also part of this mantra that fans churn out every time there is some pathetic argument to degrade Rodgers. And, apart from the very obvious, which players have been loyal to Liverpool in recent years? F**k all. Hardly the Liverpool Way if we're going to use this argument.

Player power is ridiculous these days - I don't see a big issue in Rodger's 'deceiving' these players who, at the end of the day, are entirely to blame themselves. Deception is part and parcel of the modern game. Deal with it.

Similar comments have been made by former managers and players of bygone era and yet now it seems we're a bunch of oversensitive souls who are deeply troubled by a few white lies.  To me it has become part of a manager's job description, especially during a tranfer window means he must deceive, inveigle and obfuscate.

Who cares what Downing sais in the press?  Reminds me of a girl that just got dumped, she's going to talk sh*t.  Better off in the end, although I don't see the "at least he's better than Downing" quotes to go away, .  Probably stick around like the "A cold December night at the Britannia" liners.