Cost cutting? or Using money more wisely?

I think this is the most telling point of what the owners and BR are doing. We have a lot of young, untested players and are not spending a lot on them. So, I see it as a solid future investment and yes, gamble but its not costing us a lot. I would prefer this than a team of aged journey players who are one match away from another knee surgery.  Why is it necessary to spend 100m now on 2 30 year old veterans, when we spent half that on 4 young players.

Why does the choice have to be so polarised? - I haven't read any posts asking for us to sign 2 30 year old veterans at the expense of young players.

Otherwise I hope you're right - because there certainly doesn't seem to be any alternative.

Why does the choice have to be so polarised? - I haven't read any posts asking for us to sign 2 30 year old veterans at the expense of young players.

You haven't seen it mate because it isn't there.

Any on with a bit of sense just wants FSG to back the manager with the money to buy even one established, experienced player to add to the team.

I said one as there is next to no hope of it being two or three that we need.

Why does the choice have to be so polarised? - I haven't read any posts asking for us to sign 2 30 year old veterans at the expense of young players.

Otherwise I hope you're right - because there certainly doesn't seem to be any alternative.

Becasue thats what people expect and want nowadays.People want the big name signings and are only happy if money is spent and then they ignore the moves that were made and the players they did sign.

The point I was trying to make was that in the last year we signed some solid, young players who havn't even had 1 season of play. Young players who, since being signed have seen us play some of the best Football we have played in 5 years. Since Sturridge and Coutinho were signed we have played great. Thats my point. Until we begin to see that the moves we DID make, are not working, we shouldn't complain about not spending more. I agree that bringing in a veteran player is good, but it may not be necessary at this moment and complaining about it is pointless.

Becasue thats what people expect and want nowadays.People want the big name signings and are only happy if money is spent and then they ignore the moves that were made and the players they did sign.

The point I was trying to make was that in the last year we signed some solid, young players who havn't even had 1 season of play. Young players who, since being signed have seen us play some of the best Football we have played in 5 years. Since Sturridge and Coutinho were signed we have played great. Thats my point. Until we begin to see that the moves we DID make, are not working, we shouldn't complain about not spending more. I agree that bringing in a veteran player is good, but it may not be necessary at this moment and complaining about it is pointless.

Still don't get where you get the highlighted bits from.

I think you confuse experienced with veteran.

I think you confuse experienced with veteran.

Will Hughes is experienced in excess of 50 games for Derby. 

Get it in before the FSG butt monkeys do.

I like what we are doing but we just need to be more rapid in buying bigger names. Our finances are clean and we have money to buy but I understand FSG after Kenny's awful  transfer window; had these players been better ones and had they produced good performances we would have spent much more. We often forget we spend 100mil in a transfer window(yes it was not a net spend). It's that transfer window which ruined our scouting system. But I'm confident BR and the owners are trying their bestto sign AT LEAST ONE marquee signing before September.

The bottom line is that the teams spending the big money on players will be the teams fighting for the big trophy's! Like it or not that's the way it is,  and even if we develop a strong team over time, the City's and Chelsea's of this world can keep on buying the best players, making it very difficult for us to challenge them.

Realistically if the FFP rules don't work, FSGs cost cutting/using the money more wisely, won't bring us the success we crave.

Then came Brendan and he's bought some awful players too!

It's basically like a neverending merry go round.

 

Like many on here, I fail to see where we're being asset stripped or stripped back.

We made a firm bid for Willian (matching Spurs) but the guy has chosen the bright lights of London. It happens and we move on. I don't have any issue with it, nor do I give a sh*te that we've moved on Downing, Carroll and Spearing. I would have liked to have seen Reina stay, but his take or leave it attitude resulted in BR moving for a replacement sooner rather than later.

People ask where the money has gone...I say it's balancing the books, paving the way for the redevelopment of Anfield and held in reserve for the right players at the right price.

For years we've been a running joke in regards to overspending on crap and finally we have owners willing to act wisely when it comes to big money deals.

Eh we didn't match spurs that's why they have him and we don't.widely reported

I think this is the most telling point of what the owners and BR are doing. We have a lot of young, untested players and are not spending a lot on them. So, I see it as a solid future investment and yes, gamble but its not costing us a lot.

Not costing US a lot? Match tickets merchandise and tv costs all gone up big time so the fans are spending big with our hard earned money but you want to justify fsg not spending??

What Henry spends or doesn't spend costs me and the other fans in the pocket so how can he raise prices and turnover and then not reinvest let alone spend his own money?

A solid future investment means spending where we are -5m net spend so how is that solid in the long term?

I agree we do have a lot of untested unproven young players.thats the big problem. We won't be competing for top 4 with a squad full of unproven players. Also that makes the suarez types want to leave tired of playing with unproven players. How many more seasons will it take for fans to realise this isn't working?

3 years and teams above us getting better every season whereas we are trying to hold on to 7th..

Just not good enough

Different tack then - we all want the football team to succeed; that's a given. Right?

Without looking too far back into history (say just to when the Premier League was founded) and studying all available evidence. Which teams tend to be more successful [win titles/win trophies]?  Teams who've spent consistently or teams who haven't? Teams who pay higher wages or teams who don't?

Ask yourselves this then: can we really expect to be winning titles and trophies off the back of cost cutting, frugal contracts and a negative spend? If you've answered "yes" then; why? Why do you expect our team to be winning titles and trophies?

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My frustration with this window has been summed up, to a tee, by leeboy here:

'All that's left is to improve the first team' eh that should have been the first thing done.we had months to prepare,money in the bank and its the most important thing to do. Instead we spend 2 months slashing costs

I can't see how any fan would not agree that we should always strengthen before selling. Previous transfer "mistakes" (which were both sanctioned and praised by FSG remember) should not be used as an excuse to hinder the team now. They are a smoke-screen; a feeble excuse not to spend.

Having money in the bank or in your pocket ,whilst your house needs attention, is plain daft, in my opinion. As too is penalising the current manager for your previous mistakes. If you believe in him; give him the tools.

Again, assuming we all want the same thing for the football team; I can't see how anyone would disagree but maybe I'm being too naive. 

Reminds me of being back on Newkit forums 

No coincidence when two or three members of that infamous shitehawk crew are currently in residence in this very thread.

Different tack then - we all want the football team to succeed; that's a given. Right?

Without looking too far back into history (say just to when the Premier League was founded) and studying all available evidence. Which teams tend to be more successful [win titles/win trophies]?  Teams who've spent consistently or teams who haven't? Teams who pay higher wages or teams who don't?

Ask yourselves this then: can we really expect to be winning titles and trophies off the back of cost cutting, frugal contracts and a negative spend? If you've answered "yes" then; why? Why do you expect our team to be winning titles and trophies?

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I have seen the Borussia Dortmund analogy made about how things can be achieved with time and patience.  This completely ignores the reality that Dortmund had no financial heavyweight to overcome in Germany only Bayern Munich.

Liverpool have to over come one of the  financially very powerful Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal just to get into the top 4. And nowadays a Tottenham team with a better chief exec than we have and a better manager IMO. The idea that there's gold at the end of the rainbow spending less on transfers and wages than our rivals and with the least experienced manager of the top 6 in charge is just FSG propaganda. I suppose when they've increased the value of the club and sold it on, they won't care about the many reds fans who look like gullible fools for believing them.

Becasue thats what people expect and want nowadays.People want the big name signings and are only happy if money is spent and then they ignore the moves that were made and the players they did sign.

The point I was trying to make was that in the last year we signed some solid, young players who havn't even had 1 season of play. Young players who, since being signed have seen us play some of the best Football we have played in 5 years. Since Sturridge and Coutinho were signed we have played great. Thats my point. Until we begin to see that the moves we DID make, are not working, we shouldn't complain about not spending more. I agree that bringing in a veteran player is good, but it may not be necessary at this moment and complaining about it is pointless.

Solid young players with potential are an essential ingredient of any team, so too is a solid spine of experienced, quality players to cushion the inadequacies of an apprenticeship.
With the exception of one or two internationals that cushion cannot exist in the long term, if FSG's policy of only buying unproven youth is adhered to.
Even if the apprentice flourishes that policy dictates he is sold and more youth brought in.
Take the case of Coutinho; he does indeed have outrageous potential which has no doubt caught the attention of our rivals and continental big spenders.
As soon as the lad realises his potential and a sizeable offer from the likes of RM comes in you won't see his arse for dust.
Not only will the lure of the big time entice him away but the prospect of playing for an outfit that refuses to equip itself for a serious major trophy challenge will be as much of a persuader.
Luis Suarez is a case in point.

FSG in it for the long haul?!?!
Don't make me F***ing laugh.
Bluster and bullshit over an extended time-scale is how you interpret that statement.

I have seen the Borussia Dortmund analogy made about how things can be achieved with time and patience.  This completely ignores the reality that Dortmund had no financial heavyweight to overcome in Germany only Bayern Munich.

Yeah Barnsey, I know. I wrote this, on the same subject,  back in September last year:

If we wanted we could compare our selves to many a team both home and abroad and find similarities with them all. As 5times' has pointed out it's the differences that matter most.

For example Dortmund did not and do not have to compete with many clubs who have wealthy owners, huge revenue streams and vast amounts of Sky T.V. revenue. They have been and  still do operate in an environment of F.F.P. In short: a level playing field. Players are less expensive and playing catch up is easier in that environment.

The Bundesliga already operates in a  Financial Fair Play environment.

  The majority of German clubs break-even and there is political pressure used by the Bundesliga to discourage overspending. Other than Wolfsburg and Levekeusen the clubs operate on a model whereby the fans own 51% of each Bundeliga club.  Consequently, there is no scope for wealthy owners to inject huge funds into buy success - the wealthy benefactor model doesn't operate in Germany.

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/latest-news/the-bundesliga-a-vision-of-the-premier-league-future-

The business model becomes less important because all teams use the same model. Therefore, in such a set up, the qualities which a good coach can bring to the team are much more important and relevant. If we all understand this, as fans, we will understand that, after recent events, whilst it's nice to read a very timely, optimistic post; the comparisons don't really bear too much scrutiny.

If one really needs to run comparisons; maybe Arsenal will give you more of a nod to where our future lies. Unless the F.A. and all clubs sign up to F.F.P. 

Its clear they have an offset arrangement working. Remember how some claimed G&H took over with no leverage? That was a pack of lies, it was debt further up the chain.
 
There's  only one reason the Sleight-of-Hand Crew are looking for "internal rate of return" ie cost slash, let the squad depreciate to sh*t.
And it has bugger all to do with "wise investment in the team".

Time Slippery John and Teflon Tom got their marching orders.

25m or 30m A YEAR depreciation in the value of the squad. We're NOT standing still. We're going backwards. That is the fact. The "Sox-puppets" can deny it all they want. Last time they'd be yelling "give Tom and George a break". And its the same this time.

We finished just above W Brom and Swansea last time. And behind Everton. Another wage slash, year of profit and thats "spending wisely" is it? Yes and I'm Elvis Presley.

Nearly 3 years, and nearly 3 years of bxxshit. Case closed. Taxi for Fenway. So-long, adieu and "have you thought about buying the Mancs?"

I like what we are doing but we just need to be more rapid in buying bigger names. Our finances are clean and we have money to buy but I understand FSG after Kenny's awful  transfer window; had these players been better ones and had they produced good performances we would have spent much more. We often forget we spend 100mil in a transfer window(yes it was not a net spend). It's that transfer window which ruined our scouting system. But I'm confident BR and the owners are trying their bestto sign AT LEAST ONE marquee signing before September.

How this all of a sudden turned into Kenny's mistake?! Kenny has to shoulder some of it yes as he had his targets, but a significant portion of blame still lies with COmolli and FSG, or have we now forgotten this. Commilli negotiated the deals, FSG hired Commoli, FSG sanctioned the spending of seemingly the next 3 seasons transfer budgets.

FSG are a PR wizzards, they sack a legend and use him as a very convieneint scapegoat to justify their lack of investment for the next

• years !   

but I understand FSG after Kenny's awful  transfer window

Come off it lad; you're better than that and if not better you're surely more intelligent than that. All the quotes; all the evidence is there (both on the web and on here): surely you've read them? But, just in case you genuinely don't "understand"...

The FSG appointed DoF [Comolli] was in complete control of scouting and negotiations. He was supported fully and praised, by John Henry, for his work in that window. Kenny Dalglish may have said yes or no to players (players he believed had been scouted properly and would fit into his 'vision') but...

He had absolutely no say on how much FSG sanctioned their DoF to pay for those players. The fact that some still buy into the black propaganda that he did is, quite frankly, bewildering and scary in equal measures.

For FSG to penalise Brendan Rodgers for their mistake is wrong; no matter how anyone tries to dress it up. 

How this all of a sudden turned into Kenny's mistake?! Kenny has to shoulder some of it yes as he had his targets, but a significant portion of blame still lies with COmolli and FSG, or have we now forgotten this. Commilli negotiated the deals, FSG hired Commoli, FSG sanctioned the spending of seemingly the next 3 seasons transfer budgets.

FSG are a PR wizzards, they sack a legend and use him as a very convieneint scapegoat to justify their lack of investment for the next

• years !   

Kenny got us suarez and Carroll for Torres

Hendo is still here started and played well. Enrique still here.

Downing we got up to 8m back for,Carroll and Adam got us over 20m back

Kennys spending and selling wasn't a club destroying disaster like its made out. It should not have set us back the almost 3 years since we spent decent money.

Allen and Borini will return less if sold now IMO.

Theres no logic to the argument that one bad window has stopped us spending. It's just a convenient excuse for fsg.

Add that to the Ffp crap fsg are spouting and its all smoke and mirrors

On the subject of using money wisely, I have drawn up a table, similar to the LFC one i posted a couple of weeks back, on Spurs '13/14 spending.

The have moved on more than most think, and actually havn't spent as much net as you would imagine. They have done what we have done, move on lesser players and bring in better players, but actually invested at the same time, resulting in a much better squad AND first XI.

Considering the Bale move, this will put them in a very healthy finiancial position at the end of the window, even if they sign lamela and Willian, so for all of those hoping that their spending would reslt in a leeds / portsmouth, im not convinced. Hopefully they'll all be sh*t and will bottle it. 

 

On the subject of using money wisely, I have drawn up a table, similar to the LFC one i posted a couple of weeks back, on Spurs '13/14 spending.

The have moved on more than most think, and actually havn't spent as much net as you would imagine. They have done what we have done, move on lesser players and bring in better players, but actually invested at the same time, resulting in a much better squad AND first XI.

Considering the Bale move, this will put them in a very healthy finiancial position at the end of the window, even if they sign lamela and Willian, so for all of those hoping that their spending would reslt in a leeds / portsmouth, im not convinced. Hopefully they'll all be sh*t and will bottle it. 

 

They've had a perfect balance of spend and invest.speculate to accumulate all done wisely.

We are now resorting to hoping they don't gel in time.sad days.

They are not building a CL qualifying team they are building a league winning team. Every year thereis progress and improvements throughout their squad.

We are 3 years in and I can't see an ounce of progress results wise

They've had a perfect balance of spend and invest.speculate to accumulate all done wisely.

We are now resorting to hoping they don't gel in time.sad days.

They are not building a CL qualifying team they are building a league winning team. Every year thereis progress and improvements throughout their squad.

We are 3 years in and I can't see an ounce of progress results wise

Agree completely

Judging on the reduction of the wage bill, the lack of transfer funds from their own pocket and our league finishes under FSG, I would be inclined to call it cost cutting rather than using money wisely.