"We Need To Talk About Gerrard."

I keep seeing people bang on about Coutinho not tracking Rooney.
Is this because the commentator said it?

Gerrard was shadowing Rooney all match, apart from when he scored the goal. He completely lost his man.

The job of our number 10 is not to mark their number 10.
If he does that, he's way too deep and out of position.

It's the job of the deep lying midfielders to pick up the opposition number 10.
When you hear someone say "playing between the lines" they mean the space in between the 2 banks of 4 that you see in a rigid 442.
The point of playing deep lying midfielders or a DM is to negate the space "between the lines".
We didn't do that for Rooneys goal, because Gerrard lost track of him.

I keep seeing people bang on about Coutinho not tracking Rooney.
Is this because the commentator said it?

Gerrard was shadowing Rooney all match, apart from when he scored the goal. He completely lost his man.

The job of our number 10 is not to mark their number 10.
If he does that, he's way too deep and out of position.

It's the job of the deep lying midfielders to pick up the opposition number 10.
When you hear someone say "playing between the lines" they mean the space in between the 2 banks of 4 that you see in a rigid 442.
The point of playing deep lying midfielders or a DM is to negate the space "between the lines".
We didn't do that for Rooneys goal, because Gerrard lost track of him.

Sorry bud but that is bollox! Coutinho was marking Rooney one moment, then he was ball watching, then Rooney was gone, then it was a goal. Midfielders mark, track and tackle, Coutinho was in position to do so, he didn't and it cost us a goal. It doesn't matter if he was playing in the ten, the 9 or the 2 shirt. It was a simple picture and he didn't see it.

Whether the manager spends enough time on such things is another thing altogether, I really don't think he does, otherwise it would show on the pitch.

It was Coutinho's man alright, but equally I think it's very worrying that a player can be "let go" in the centre circle by our diminutive number 10 and neither of our holding midfielders were alive to the danger. It's happened too often this season regardless of which defensive position we're talking about, and our inability as a team to dig each other out of the sh!t is very worrying.

If I'm playing as a holder I reckon I'm going to be assuming that Coutinho/Lallana/Sterling are going to let the odd runner go and I'd better be alive to it. We aren't and it's a problem, and I think given Allen got nutmegged and Jones dived the wrong way, it IS  bit rich to lay the blame entirely at Coutinho's feet as they did on the telly. 

Sorry bud but that is bollox! Coutinho was marking Rooney one moment, then he was ball watching, then Rooney was gone, then it was a goal. Midfielders mark, track and tackle, Coutinho was in position to do so, he didn't and it cost us a goal. It doesn't matter if he was playing in the ten, the 9 or the 2 shirt. It was a simple picture and he didn't see it.

Whether the manager spends enough time on such things is another thing altogether, I really don't think he does, otherwise it would show on the pitch.

It doesn't matter what Coutinho was doing.
Gerrard was picking him up all match.
Rooney was his man.

I honestly can't believe people think our number 10 is supposed to pick up their number 10.

I also have difficulty believing the lengths people go to to defend Gerrard when he clearly was the one who was supposed to be picking up Rooney.
"Oh yeah, he did it all match except for the one time Rooney lost him, and then scored, because obviously that was someone elses fault"
If people are having trouble with this, they need to look at the positional map that Diego posted.
It's as clear as F***ing daylight if you're not blinded by hero worship.

I keep seeing people bang on about Coutinho not tracking Rooney.
Is this because the commentator said it?

Gerrard was shadowing Rooney all match, apart from when he scored the goal. He completely lost his man.

The job of our number 10 is not to mark their number 10.
If he does that, he's way too deep and out of position.

It's the job of the deep lying midfielders to pick up the opposition number 10.
When you hear someone say "playing between the lines" they mean the space in between the 2 banks of 4 that you see in a rigid 442.
The point of playing deep lying midfielders or a DM is to negate the space "between the lines".
We didn't do that for Rooneys goal, because Gerrard lost track of him.

u got that right,coutinho is not defensive at all so we might say that goal was a stevies mistake

It was Coutinho's man alright, but equally I think it's very worrying that a player can be "let go" in the centre circle by our diminutive number 10 and neither of our holding midfielders were alive to the danger. It's happened too often this season regardless of which defensive position we're talking about, and our inability as a team to dig each other out of the sh!t is very worrying.

If I'm playing as a holder I reckon I'm going to be assuming that Coutinho/Lallana/Sterling are going to let the odd runner go and I'd better be alive to it. We aren't and it's a problem, and I think given Allen got nutmegged and Jones dived the wrong way, it IS  bit rich to lay the blame entirely at Coutinho's feet as they did on the telly.

i dont ever remember that i have seen that a number ten plays a defensive role in the team,thats just rubish

He has suffered his whole career from a lack of game intelligence; no-one can last remember when he grabbed a game by the scruff of the neck.

He only appears able to contribute positively when there are world class players providing movement ahead of him.
and his defensive lapses can only be covered up by surrounding him with players who can do his running and tackling.

An occasional pass or dead-ball strike doesn't make up for those deficiencies in my book; it's also hard to justify 180k per week wages for that output.

I don't mind him staying at the club but he should be used as a bit-part player in my opinion, coming on for the last twenty to thirty minutes of a game.

Unlike our nasty owners, of course, he is a legend only interested in the love of the club and not money but I would still be happy to see him get an 60k per week contract.

Once again your priority is John Henry's pocket! Big surprise there!

In case you suffer from memory loss, at one time there was no better player at chasing back and tackling, no better player at surging forward in attack, and he was the provider for many a goal. If he's on 180,000 like you claim, surely it's because he's earned it, you know, like those incentive based contracts your boss loves so much.

I'm sure due to his love of the Club he'd be willing to take a pay cut to stay. But maybe it would be better for him to seek a big pay day in America with LA Galaxy , he doesn't owe us anything, that's for sure!

It doesn't matter what Coutinho was doing.
Gerrard was picking him up all match.
Rooney was his man.

I honestly can't believe people think our number 10 is supposed to pick up their number 10.

I also have difficulty believing the lengths people go to to defend Gerrard when he clearly was the one who was supposed to be picking up Rooney.
"Oh yeah, he did it all match except for the one time Rooney lost him, and then scored, because obviously that was someone elses fault"
If people are having trouble with this, they need to look at the positional map that Diego posted.
It's as clear as F***ing daylight if you're not blinded by hero worship.

If Coutinho was standing beside Rooney, he should have followed him, no matter who was supposed to be watching him . He's not my man is not a valid excuse!

Once again your priority is John Henry's pocket! Big surprise there!

In case you suffer from memory loss, at one time there was no better player at chasing back and tackling, no better player at surging forward in attack, and he was the provider for many a goal. If he's on 180,000 like you claim, surely it's because he's earned it, you know, like those incentive based contracts your boss loves so much.

I'm sure due to his love of the Club he'd be willing to take a pay cut to stay. But maybe it would be better for him to seek a big pay day in America with LA Galaxy , he doesn't owe us anything, that's for sure!

You should eat more fish. It's brain food you know.

All the money s being reinvested into the team and, because we are less well off than our rivals, we can't afford to waste it.

The money spent on Gerrard's wages would be better spent on other parts of the squad like, I don't know, paying towards a quick, mobile striker?

We can't afford to pay players on the basis of how good they were years ago - that much should be painfully obvious to anybody prepared to give it a moment's thought. If Stevie is coming on as a super sub, 180k per week is too much unless he s consistently winning games for us - which he hasn't done all season.

We are not going to win the league by wasting our money. Once you get your head around that fact you can start focusing on what we need to do instead.

It doesn't matter what Coutinho was doing.
Gerrard was picking him up all match.
Rooney was his man.

I honestly can't believe people think our number 10 is supposed to pick up their number 10.

I also have difficulty believing the lengths people go to to defend Gerrard when he clearly was the one who was supposed to be picking up Rooney.
"Oh yeah, he did it all match except for the one time Rooney lost him, and then scored, because obviously that was someone elses fault"
If people are having trouble with this, they need to look at the positional map that Diego posted.
It's as clear as f**king daylight if you're not blinded by hero worship.

Come on mate, have you ever played football? I'm sure you have, is there a rule that says he marks him and you mark him and that's how it stays all game? Do players not get taught to see and react to different pictures on the pitch? To read and react based on the situation, ie. to realise that they are marking someone and then track that player based on the picture they see. We're talking about professional footballers here. I'm not trying to defend the skipper for the sake of it but the simple fact (for me) is that Coutinho was In perfect position to track that run, In perfect position to see that it was his job (on that occasion) and he didn't. He might have been playing as a 10 but he talked about being an 8 last season, said that Brendan had spoken to him about it. It's not just Him, these sorts of mistakes are endemic throughout the whole team unfortunately.

You should eat more fish. It's brain food you know.

All the money s being reinvested into the team and, because we are less well off than our rivals, we can't afford to waste it.

The money spent on Gerrard's wages would be better spent on other parts of the squad like, I don't know, paying towards a quick, mobile striker?

We can't afford to pay players on the basis of how good they were years ago - that much should be painfully obvious to anybody prepared to give it a moment's thought. If Stevie is coming on as a super sub, 180k per week is too much unless he s consistently winning games for us - which he hasn't done all season.

We are not going to win the league by wasting our money. Once you get your head around that fact you can start focusing on what we need to do instead.

Well all the money is not being invested in the team, but that's a different story, and if we can't afford to waste it, it should be spent on proven players, not potential.

Stevie still has a lot to offer, maybe is smaller doses, but he is not a over the hill as folks make out.

Its a dangerous road to take to raise and lower a players wages based on how they are playing. Say Stevie takes a pay cut, then suddenly scores and assists for fun, does he get his pay rise back?

If

If Coutinho was standing beside Rooney, he should have followed him, no matter who was supposed to be watching him . He's not my man is not a valid excuse!

I agree with Swab's point in general (a No. 10 shouldn't be marking the other team's No. 10 in open play), but agree with you right here. Once Coutinho started tracking Ronney on that play he should have kept doing so in that particular instance.

The other side of it, though, is that we had 3 players sort of near Rooney and not a single one read the play. Pathetic defending at its finest.

It doesn't matter what Coutinho was doing.
Gerrard was picking him up all match.
Rooney was his man.

I honestly can't believe people think our number 10 is supposed to pick up their number 10.

I also have difficulty believing the lengths people go to to defend Gerrard when he clearly was the one who was supposed to be picking up Rooney.
"Oh yeah, he did it all match except for the one time Rooney lost him, and then scored, because obviously that was someone elses fault"
If people are having trouble with this, they need to look at the positional map that Diego posted.
It's as clear as f**king daylight if you're not blinded by hero worship.

I'm far more concerned about how Joe Allen was so easily megged on the build up to that goal than who was meant to be tracking Rooney. That goal was a disaster from start to finish, there wasn't one player for us who covered themselves in any sort of glory on their goals. Positionally the team was awful, not just Gerrard but for some reason certain people almost look for an excuse just to slate Gerrard rather than anyone else just so they don't have "hero worship"....which by the way is the biggest load of crap I have heard for a while. Half the damn team can take responsibility for that Rooney goal, the amount of players that just looked as though they didn't have a clue where they should be on the pitch or what they should be doing was embarrassing and the way Allen reacted when was destroyed just sums the whole goal up....No effort.

It was Coutinho's man alright, but equally I think it's very worrying that a player can be "let go" in the centre circle by our diminutive number 10 and neither of our holding midfielders were alive to the danger. It's happened too often this season regardless of which defensive position we're talking about, and our inability as a team to dig each other out of the sh!t is very worrying.

If I'm playing as a holder I reckon I'm going to be assuming that Coutinho/Lallana/Sterling are going to let the odd runner go and I'd better be alive to it. We aren't and it's a problem, and I think given Allen got nutmegged and Jones dived the wrong way, it IS  bit rich to lay the blame entirely at Coutinho's feet as they did on the telly. 

That's a fair point too mate, and highlights that our defensive problems are collective. They run way way deeper than having a "better" defensive midfielder.

You can go through this thread and read how much I defended Stevie. But his performances this year aren't up to par. Last season, his attacking prowess earned him his right in the team. He was constantly creating chances, and while not perfect on the defensive side of things he did ok. He performed more than well enough to retain his place in the middle of the park this year.

However, this year comes round and he looks like he couldn't give a toss. Far too frequently he's invisible and offering us nothing. Now some players are actually better when you don't see them, that means they've done their job well. Stevie isn't one of those. If he's invisible then he's played badly. I know he scored two penalties (furthering his lead as our top scorer) but nothing else. Nothing.

From open play, Gerrard is offering us nothing. People used to say about Lucas when he offers us nothing offensively, he has to be more than perfect defensively. Well currently Gerrard is offering nothing offensively and isn't perfect defensively. This time last year, I would of fumed if Stevie left in the summer. 2015 summer, I think Stevie should be off unless his performances pick up drastically.

He deserves to finish his playing career here. He just needs to accept that it's going to be sooner rather than later. And with increasingly limited appearances...

better cm than the rest we have, I actually hope he goes now because the disrespect he has been getting from the so called supporters is sickening, he has been made a scapegoat when lucas, henderson and allen have also been trash, infact they have been worse than him.

I agree we should be looking for TWO new cms to replace our current crop but until then he starts when fit as he is better than the rest. we get a gift win vs swansea and people think lucas and henderson are he answer when they are pretty poor in the middiel, they offer very little ability going forward and can only run.

the issue is rodgers not seeing this before hand and buying a new cm.

gerrard plays and he makes goals, simple as that, no other cm really does that well for us. but we badly need fresh blood

https://twitter.com/Jay82_LFC/status/550727945640087552

https://twitter.com/Jay82_LFC/status/550727945640087552

and who is Jay82, reliable in any way, shape or form?

I think it would be better for him and us if he just went into coaching with us.

Yup, seems to be gathering momentum that it will be announced he is leaving for LA Galaxy... mainly Twitter so take what you want from that ...

I've written a pretty lengthly potential solution for Stevie on the tactics geeks of the world unite thread.

We need to get him back where he belongs playing, in a deeper role.

The guy is approaching 35. Setting aside all sentiment and history it would be right for him to call it a day come the season end. A great actor knows when to leave the stage and the same goes for a great player. It is not a pretty sight to see him on a downward spiral.

Instead of having to pre-word everything with accolades or superlatives
I'd hope for my team LFC not Gerrardfc to move on. He was an amazing player, he's not anymore, every time I see him I think about the player he was.
We need to move on.