Our midfield three

Is just atrocious. Where does one start? Lucas, Gerrard, and Henderson..

This is clearly our weakness area. Not RB, not LB but here in the three central midfield positions. I think it's also fair to say that neither of the three are good enough when presented with a big game.

I was bitterly disappointed in the way Gerrard performed. I thought being the captain, he possibly had the most anonymous performance all season. He didn't lead by example and he never made his presence known. For me, and I'm not just saying this based on last night's game, but I genuinely believe that Luis Suarez could be a worthy captain choice. He was everywhere yesterday and gave it 100 percent.
All the attributes that made Gerrard the legend he is now cease to exist. His surging runs, that box to box energy ,and those game changing screamers. I'm not suggesting to sell him, absolutely not, but he needs some very healthy competition for his position. He's more than replaceable, and we need to be bold in doing so when the time is right.

Lucas is a tactically intelligent player, and clearly the smartest out of the three, but he is too slow and like Gerrard, lacks that mobility. The likes of Cazorla, Ramsey, Özil, Rosicky, and Arteta had a field day yesterday. Not just were they technically superior to our midfielders, but they possessed much more mobility. We just couldn't contain them, and this will be a recurring issue in every big game bar Manchester United.

Henderson gets heaps loads of praise. Indeed, he works his socks and gives 100 percent but if anyone genuinely believes that his athleticism warrants him a first team spot in a top top club, then you are truly kidding yourself. Tactically, very poor. Technically, very poor. He has athleticism, and that is it.

Against smaller opposition, the likes of Lucas, Gerrard, and Hendo can get the better of the midfield, but even then you have witnessed us getting overrun in the second half of many many games this season.

True cause for concern in my opinion, and huge priority area to reinforce come January. Will be an interesting window...

Not another midfield thread of some sort, feck I haven't be round here all that long and I'm sure most know about our midfield's deficiencies without raising yet another thread.

Is there actually a thread out there regarding our midfield trio? Or shall I just mention the other two in say a Gerrard thread?

Bloody whinger ;-)

My head hurts just wondering which of the many midfield threads to post in.

Cheer for giving me another option.

At this rate, we're going to need a separate board for threads about the midfield.

At this rate, we're going to need a separate board for threads about the midfield.

It's crazy isn't it.

Ok. What about we sell Agger to barca for song and 5 million? And use the money to get in a 2 footed full back as cover. Song is athletic, good creatively, and a decent tackler. He would surely fancy some first team football

Did we have 3 in midfield yesterday, seemed like a empty park for Arse to run through.

The problem with Lucas and Gerrard is that they are not mobile enough, particularly Gerrard.

Rodger's system is designed towards that of a high pressing system and without the ability of some players to do this very well, then the team suffer. Henderson is excellent at this, but big question marks remain over his creative stance.

In the next few years, the team will take more shape to suit Rodger's preferences definitely, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him bring in another top quality defensive midfielder. Lucas is a very good player, but perhaps not maybe that top class player they need in that position. This is in no way a slight against Lucas - he's very capable and plays excellently against weaker sides but against brilliant teams like Arsenal then there are questions. But saying all that, they were playing Arsenal - Liverpool will not be coming up against sides as quick as that and as creatively brilliant as that - Arsenal are a fantastic side, and that is the result of a methodology from Wenger that has been in place for 17 years and is second nature to the club from top to bottom. No trophy in years, but stability over the years has led to them kind of being a 'sleeping giant' while paying off stadium debts, but this seriously looks like the time now they are going to win something I feel. If not this year, then next year, because the players they have are coming into their own.

That's contrasted with a Liverpool side which, for a lot of them, have seen a tumultuous time in the last four years. Wenger has 17 years, Rodgers has one and a half years and Rodgers doesn't nearly have his ideal squad at the moment.

However, the seeds have been sown and there is a lot of talent in the squad, outwith Gerrard, Lucas and Henderson. The playing style is excellent, and his tactics have proved inspired before last night's match. In hindsight, I don't think he would have started with the same system as he did last night but it worked in previous matches and if it ain't broke don't fix it. Plus, I don't think anyone could have forseen quite how sh*t Cissokho would be. But he showed good awareness to change at half time and those changes were evident in the second half, because apart from Ramsey's wonder goal, Liverpool could easily have taken something from the game if they had started the way they did in the second half.

That is my view on the tactics, however in terms of the 'midfield three' I cannot stress how much I WANT TO SEE ALLEN PLAY! He's yet to convince anyone, but if there is a time to do it it should be now and put him in his natural position and he could do well indeed. I think it would do him wonders to play him in his more advanced position and give him a comfortable run in the first team, which he has never experienced in his time at Liverpool. Crucially he can offer the creativity that is lacking with Lucas, Gerrard and Henderson and I dream of him pulling the midfield strings with Coutinho. The other trio of Alberto, Sterling and Ibe are very young, but there is vast potential in these three also. I think there is a lot of depth and potential in the midfield, offering much better pressing and creative ability than Gerrard, Henderson and Lucas.

I'm going to start off by questioning your comment about making Suarez captain because you are questioning Gerrard's commitment to the cause. Yes Suarez gives 100% on the pitch but he also wanted that to be the case but for a different team and wanted to find the quickest way out of the club yet you think he is captain material for a club that let's face it, he will be leaving if we miss out on top 4 again. Christ!

Knee jerk opening post to yet another midfield topic, though I am on my phone so can't search for a relevant one already going

when lastime midfield score some goals, all we need is one good midfield with pace and score few goals, lt that easy

Gerrard is just fine usually, but he is at the age where you start to wonder if he should be actually used as often as he is for 90 minutes.  Suarez should not be captain,  that's ludicrous to suggest. Captain needs to be an amazing performer and loyal to Liverpool. After Gerrard it's got to be Agger.  I just don't feel Lucas is vocal enough for the role.

I wonder what Joseph was thinking sitting on the bench yesterday, watching those three in midfield.

Well, this thread is different ... it's not SG is crap, or Lucas is crap.  It's there all crap

Not sure though I'd agree that all the attributes that made SG great cease to exist. Or that Lucas is clearly the smartest of the three. Or that Hendo is technically poor.

But ideally we do need more options in CM come January.

We need to talk about Gerrard.

Lucas blah blah blah is he holding us back.

Our midfield without Coutinho.

Team without Gerrard/Lucas/Hendo.

Who can be the best DM for Liverpool.


And now...

Our midfield 3.

F***ing hell.

We need midfielders.
We all know we need midfielders.

Enough with the F***ing topics.

Our midfield without Coutinho.

Well hopefully we won't need the 'Our midfield without Coutinho' for much longer

Look I think we all know we're lacking mobility and strength in midfield and most of all BR knows this. I'm sure he'll try to rectify this problem in January as best he can. We don't have a blank cheque to sign players like other clubs and Coutinho's don't grow on trees so we need to be patient and hopefully the midfield trio this topic aims to chastise can keep us in the top 4 come January as they have after the first 10 games.

Just two things from me

1/ can't we just keep all this stuff in the tactics thread. It's one of the best threads on the board and yet it only seems to get visited by a few posters

2/ everyone assumes the problem is all down to our midfield three when things go wrong. Has anybody considered that the lack of quality available in wide areas yesterday might have had a quite an adverse effect on the boys playing in the middle? It seems tome that this gets ignored or simply brushed over.

Look I think we all know we're lacking mobility and strength in midfield and most of all BR knows this. I'm sure he'll try to rectify this problem in January as best he can. We don't have a blank cheque to sign players like other clubs and Coutinho's don't grow on trees so we need to be patient and hopefully the midfield trio this topic aims to chastise can keep us in the top 4 come January as they have after the first 10 games.

No, we don't have a blank cheque but this isn't a problem limited to this season, everyone knew the midfield needed sorting last season and BR wasted what money he was given on the positions least in need of strengthening.

2/ everyone assumes the problem is all down to our midfield three when things go wrong. Has anybody considered that the lack of quality available in wide areas yesterday might have had a quite an adverse effect on the boys playing in the middle? It seems tome that this gets ignored or simply brushed over.

It's not just the midfield three, it's the entire midfield squad. We have two decent players out of a total of nine and one of them is in the twilight of his career. That number is also the smallest number of midfielders in out of the "big six" with only Everton having the same amount out of those we're competing for a top four place with. The entire midfield squad needs overhauling across the next two windows.

Just two things from me

1/ can't we just keep all this stuff in the tactics thread. It's one of the best threads on the board and yet it only seems to get visited by a few posters

2/ everyone assumes the problem is all down to our midfield three when things go wrong. Has anybody considered that the lack of quality available in wide areas yesterday might have had a quite an adverse effect on the boys playing in the middle? It seems tome that this gets ignored or simply brushed over.

It is totally ignored for the purposes of finance, it is no coincidence that quality wide men come at a price. Failure to address the shortcoming only serve to affect as described, is that a price worth paying?

2/ everyone assumes the problem is all down to our midfield three when things go wrong. Has anybody considered that the lack of quality available in wide areas yesterday might have had a quite an adverse effect on the boys playing in the middle? It seems tome that this gets ignored or simply brushed over.

I agreed mate that we haven't quality at FB/WB when GJ and Enrique not available. But not people surprise a bit why BR still use a tactic that depend too much on wide areas. I'd say BR's tactic seem very strange for me. Against very talent midfield of Arsenal he just waste 2 players in Cissokho and Flanno out wide and let only SG and Lucas those well known they lack of mobility to battle in the center and push Hendo (who at least has a tireless engine to press) to play in vital position to create chances for the goalscorers and we know that's not his best attribute. It's not play to our strength and utilize all our best resources imo.

Many suggested in this forum that we're lack of top quality wide players so we should play 4-4-2 diamond or 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 with Agger in DM I think all worth a try and believe those are the way to utilize best of our players but we never see. Admitted BR is professional football coach and us supporters are just nothing re football tactics but it's my opinion.

I think our midfield will do much better under manager/coach who can use players properly. No not I say BR is a bad coach but I think he need to do much better too. Do people remember one of BR's football philosophy he said when he arrive is we will pressing and win the ball back as quick as possible, but we rarely see our players pressing opponents and try to win the ball back. It's very clear in a game against Southampton their players pressing us all the time resulting we cannot play our football. Southampton players can do why LFC players can't. BR seem struggle to control the like of Gerrard, that's why he desperately to bring in young players and offload many senior players. Next few years without Gerrard, Lucas in the team and BR having more power in the team I believe we can hope for success.         

All this talk of a lack of creativity in midfield does anyone know how well Suso has done with Almeria and the chances of recalling him in January.

All this talk of a lack of creativity in midfield does anyone know how well Suso has done with Almeria and the chances of recalling him in January.

One goal and six assists.

Primera División   11   1   6   -   4   939

http://www.transfermarkt.com/en/suso/profil/spieler_111961.html

Thats good enough for me.

It just doesn't have any uuumph to it. Yes Gerrard is god (although as the months go by it seems he is finding it harder and harder to carry a game) and Lucas is good at what he does and Hendo is a good talent, it just doesn't excite me.

What we need is a brute in DM (wanyama would have been that type of player)
We need a youngster that can pull the strings like gerrard does so they can learn off the man himself and replace him. (maybe that's what Will Hughes could do if he comes)
But finally we just need more exciting players, Henderson works his little socks off for us every game but he just isn't one to grab the head lines or do anything match winning for us....

Amazed that out all of the midfield threads the way in which Rodgers has the midfield playing hasn't been a topic for in-depth discussion.

The midfield we have could do with strengthening defensively if not only for the competition. For me though, when our midfield is asked to play offensively and our tactics don't show too much respect to the opposition it is no coincidence that it looks rather decent.

Its all about getting the best out of what you've got. On paper, without knowing what we know now, would anybody have swapped the midfield that United started with last season to the one which we started with this season? And don't forget that the Mancs absolutely pissed it last year.

Everybody seems to be hoping and praying away for some mega bucks spend on one of the many mentioned multi talented and combative midfielders in January and that's great for now I'm just hoping that what we've got is used to it's maximum strengths.

I agree lad, i just wrote this in the Gerrard thread and think it has relivance to this debate.

Midfield is where you win and lose games of football, without control in there then it all falls down








Ive been wondering lately where the decision to move Stevie to a more holding midfield role has come from, because for me its not getting the best out of him.

Is it his decision? The managers? A joint idea?

I heard Jason McAteer saying he spoke to Stevie and he was suggesting that Stevie had said that the manager had asked him to play a more withdrawn role in midfield and for him to hold.. Which suggests its more the managers thinking.. But solely the manager? Or is Stevie thinking that he can play more minutes and manage himself through games back there?
Stevie has been wonderful for us, we as this current generation of reds are privileged to have watched his career like the ones before us were lucky to watch Kenny and the ones before that to watch Cally, but time catches up with them all at some point and Stevie is 33 now and had plenty of injuries early on for his body to probably be feeling that.
I get the feeling watching him at points in games currently that he visibly manages himself through them and takes 10 minutes out of the action here and there which isnt helping us have control of the midfield. I personally feel that we would be better seeing him throw everything into games for 60 and then if he is blown out take him off and bring a Allen on to gain control in there.
I also think he would be better off playing higher up still and throwing everything into that 60 in the final third because he is still one of the best finishers at the club and has a great eye for a pass, also his presence takes defenders away from the others up there.

Gerrard has always been full on in the way he plays, its what he has moulded his game on, its whats defined him.. Early in his career it led t redcards, as his career moved on it led to Istanbul and Cardiff, that will to do things and make them happen, that 100% all or nothing approach.. That need to take the game by the scruff of the neck and drive directly at the opposition.. Rafa saw that in him and wanted to use him in roles where he could do that without having to worry too much about what happened behind him and where he could have a great impact on the game, either wide right or behind Torres he was lethal.. Technically he is sound, his dead balls have if anything improved over the years, he has been tha good he can play anywhere and be the best in that role.. But now at this stage i feel he is limiting himself or the manager is by having him play deep and try to get through 90 minutes all the time, he doesnt quite have the energy now that when his instincts take him forward particulaly late on in game sto get back and that leaves Lucas exposed.

I love Stevie and i feel he could be still more effective further forward, to play his natural game that has led him to be in the top 2 0r 3 Liverpool players of all time, and if now we only get to see that player for 30 or 60 minutes in a game then so be it, id rather see that to try to extend his career than limit him and stiffle us to extend it.

Gerrard at his peak in bursts? Yeah id love that.. He can still take games away from the opposition in 60 minutes then go off and sit in the bath and let the lads see the game out.
I feel it would help us grab the control in the middle of the park again.

Whats worrying is that our midfield three are actually three key players of ours.

Not knocking Hendo or Lucas. Their commitment is good, but you have to question whether they are actually good enough at this level, or whether the influence of Suarez and Sturridge are pinning teams back into their own half in fear of these two beastly forwards.

Against Fulham they looked world class, but then that's Fulham isn't it? They are a team who are plummeting at an alarming rate under Martin Jol. I still think Lucas and Hendo are better than your average midfielders, but are they good enough at the very top level? I don't know. Against teams like Fulham they'll look world class, but when we get dominated against the more capable teams (Chelsea, Spurs, City etc), we'll be going on this endless rant about how our midfield is not good enough.

Such short memories, and I'm guilty for that too.

Amazed that out all of the midfield threads the way in which Rodgers has the midfield playing hasn't been a topic for in-depth discussion.

The midfield we have could do with strengthening defensively if not only for the competition. For me though, when our midfield is asked to play offensively and our tactics don't show too much respect to the opposition it is no coincidence that it looks rather decent.

Its all about getting the best out of what you've got. On paper, without knowing what we know now, would anybody have swapped the midfield that United started with last season to the one which we started with this season? And don't forget that the Mancs absolutely pissed it last year.

Everybody seems to be hoping and praying away for some mega bucks spend on one of the many mentioned multi talented and combative midfielders in January and that's great for now I'm just hoping that what we've got is used to it's maximum strengths.

You're right, it is about getting the most out of your midfield players. That also depends on what formation is used as well though. If we're going 352 against a team that has a strong midfield, we are actually pinning our own team back and thus enabling the opposition to outnumber us in these areas. The game against Arsenal was a prime example where our formation seemed more 532 which left us rather light in the middle part of the field. Our best wingers are actually Jose Enrique and Glen Johnson. Yes, I know you'll say they're not wingers, they're fullbacks, but for me they are as if not more effective than the wide players we currently have at the club. I liked the formation against Fulham. I think it'd work against any team in this league. It enables us to pack out the midfield and supposing GJ and JE are playing, will also allow that width in attack.

I agree lad, i just wrote this in the Gerrard thread and think it has relivance to this debate.

You went over to the player threads to talk midfield and sh*t? I just hovered the mouse over the Kop board and clicked with my eyes closed.

Knew I'd end up in one of the fuckers.

You're right, it is about getting the most out of your midfield players. That also depends on what formation is used as well though.

Basically what I meant mate. 3-5-2 or 5-2-1-2, or whatever it f**king was, was something that would easily topple the more inferior teams but struggle against teams that pressed us high and stifled the supply to the flanks and more importantly the strikers.

Playing four at the back and going for the throats of sides from the off gets the best out of our midfield in my opinion and not affording sides the three central defenders and two holding midfielders that Newcastle were probably delighted to still see for a period after they lost a man and Arsenal and Southampton looked comfortable containing by pressing up high and getting in the face of.

http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/liverpool/id/2108?cc=5739

Excellent article about the state of our midfield three and how far we've fallen in that respect in the last five years.

http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/liverpool/id/2108?cc=5739

Excellent article about the state of our midfield three and how far we've fallen in that respect in the last five years.

It's obvious without even reading that article how much our midfield has regressed since the "Greatest midfield in the world" years. It also emphasises how important depth in midfield is. It's by far the most important area to have depth in quality. On the flip side we arguably have a better attacking trio of Suarez/Sturridge/Coutinho vs Torres/Kuyt/Benayoun and more depth in defence now. We have a few ingredients necessary for a top midfield except for a vital one. One/Two top drawer central midfielders that can lead and inspire the team. In 2007 we had four of them now only Stevie is left and he's past his prime. BR knows we need this and i'm sure it's frustrating for him that his attempts to attract such caliber of player is hampered by factors like money available/no CL/wage structure. But if Rodgers can somehow unearth one or two top midfielders in January we just might see those glory days again.

Yesterday was as good as we've looked in midfield all season long, maybe even the best we've been under Brendan.

A perfect belnd of three players each doing their own roles well but presing as a unit and we made Spurs look sh*te.

So much energy and dynamism from our three in the midfield and all the talk of how we might get out muscled Pfft.

So much energy and dynamism from our three in the midfield and all the talk of how we might get out muscled Pfft.

I must admit I was one of those who thought we would get outmuscled, i still can't believe how much we bullied them in the middle of the park...outstanding performance!!

it was so fast and fluid, hate to say but has Gerrard been the one slowing down the team certainly when  him and lucas play together we are lackluster in the middle. so when the skipper is fit them two should not play together. Henderson and Allen were amazing closing down and picking up the ball and moving it about quickly against a powerfull midfield. long may it continue

it was so fast and fluid, hate to say but has Gerrard been the one slowing down the team certainly when  him and lucas play together we are lackluster in the middle. so when the skipper is fit them two should not play together. Henderson and Allen were amazing closing down and picking up the ball and moving it about quickly against a powerfull midfield. long may it continue

To be fair, people have been saying this on here about Gerrard and Lucas playing together for a while now. I think the manager should have recognised this by now. First choice Liverpool midfield should be Gerrard, Allen, Henderson and Cou. Lucas can be back-up for Gerrard.

the fact we scored 5 and could have been more and that Spurs did not get one shot on target means the midfield 3 both created chances for the team and put up a great defensive wall in front of the back 4.A  perfect display from all 3 young men.

To be fair, people have been saying this on here about Gerrard and Lucas playing together for a while now. I think the manager should have recognised this by now. First choice Liverpool midfield should be Gerrard, Allen, Henderson and Cou. Lucas can be back-up for Gerrard.

Personally, I wouldn't break up the Lucas-Allen partnership except for games against teams we are/should roll over.

Personally, I wouldn't break up the Lucas-Allen partnership except for games against teams we are/should roll over.

May i ask who you would sacrifice for Lucas?

May i ask who you would sacrifice for Lucas?

Depending on the opposition, Gerrard, Henderson or Sterling, at present.