Ivan Rakitic (Sevilla)

Several rumors link us (and several other big english clubs as well) with Sevilla's captain and playmaker Rakitic we were already linked with last summer, and who now seem decided to leave the club.

While I can't say if he can justify the huge price tag of 40m euros Sevilla is said to be asking, the 25 years old midfielder definitively looks like a very interesting recruit according to his stats (won't pretend I know him well, as the rare occasions where I see him play are when Sevilla is getting a beating against Real or Barca ). He had 8 goals and 10 assists last season (and already 7 assists and 5 goals this one) and was first in chances created in la Liga last year (not a small performance competing with C.Ronaldo and Messi), and for his number of accurate crosses per game as well (surprising for a central midfielder).

Looks like an interesting recruit, be it to offer competition to Coutinho or Henderson, or in hope he can replace Gerrard for long term.

Anyone who follow Sevilla / Croatia to give a less stats based opinion ?

( http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-liverpool-transfer-target-2939934 ,  http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/449397/Man-Utd-Liverpool-and-Chelsea-target-Ivan-Rakitic-grows-frustrated-at-Sevilla etc... ).

Yes, please.  He's an absolutely cracking player.  By the way he wouldn't be providing competition for Coutinho as he's not an AM but a CM.  Would be more competition for Gerrard, he's already light years above Henderson.

Would absolutely love him here.  But 40m?  That's absurd, presumably it's just his buyout clause.  If he could be gotten for 20m it would be a decent price, anything more than that wouldn't be worth it IMO.  Maybe send Aspas their way in exchange to knock a bit off the price?

Yes, please.  He's an absolutely cracking player. 

Would absolutely love him here.

But 40m?  That's absurd, presumably it's just his buyout clause. 

If he could be gotten for 20m it would be a decent price, anything more than that wouldn't be worth it IMO. 

Make up your bloody mind.

I hate when people start a post with " He's a cracking player, I'd love him here" then in the next paragraph start saying they'd only buy them for such and such a fee.

He's either a 'cracking player' or he's not.

You love us to sign him or you wouldn't.

He's either a 'cracking player' or he's not.

Well, cracking isn't a discrete mathematical term with an end and a beginning.  You also have to take into account that we're not big spenders.  If the question were simply "would you like Rakitic here in principle," then the answer is yes, 100%, sign him tomorrow.  But CM isn't the only place we need strengthening.  We also need a DM, a left-sided attacker, etc.  So if the question is rephrased as "Would you like Rakitic, for £25m, if the entire Janury budget is £26m," then the answer is no, because it means we wouldn't get M'vila or another DM or Konoplyanka or another LW etc. 

Hell, yes. Been a fan since the Euros 2008. Back then I saw him more as an attacking midfielder/wide player, but with the passing of the years he's developed into more of an all round midfielder. I haven't seen much of him this season but I saw enough in the past to convince me he would be a quality buy. Would be excited if this rumour turned out to be true.

Make up your bloody mind.

I hate when people start a post with " He's a cracking player, I'd love him here" then in the next paragraph start saying they'd only buy them for such and such a fee.

He's either a 'cracking player' or he's not.

You love us to sign him or you wouldn't.

You can think somebody is a "cracking player" whilst also putting a suitable price tag on them. I think Zabaleta is a great player but would I want us to spend £30m on him? No.

Well in that case Carroll would have been a great signing for a Fiver!

but would I want us to spend £30m on him? No.

Why mcarz? Is he not a cracking player? Would he not enhance our team? Why would you be upset if FSG chose to spend £30m on him?

Surely it doesn't matter if a player is £30m or £3m. I rephrase that - Surely it doesn't matter (to anyone other than our accountants) if a player is £30m or £3m. FSG won't spend any amount (£3m or £30m) if the club can’t afford it.

I haven't seen anywhere near enough, of him, to say how good or bad he is but if he's not good enough, to improve us, then we shouldn't be looking to sign him for any money.

Buying him just because he was 'cheap' would be F***ing daft. So... don't worry about the cost: is he good enough or not? 

Why mcarz? Is he not a cracking player? Would he not enhance our team? Why would you be upset if FSG chose to spend £30m on him?

Surely it doesn't matter if a player is £30m or £3m. I rephrase that - Surely it doesn't matter (to anyone other than our accountants) if a player is £30m or £3m. FSG won't spend any amount (£3m or £30m) if the club can’t afford it.

I haven't seen anywhere near enough, of him, to say how good or bad he is but if he's not good enough, to improve us, then we shouldn't be looking to sign him for any money.

Buying him just because he was 'cheap' would be F***ing daft. So... don't worry about the cost: is he good enough or not? 

Get your point, but we don't have an unlimited amount of money to spend, as we are only going to spend money generated by the club.

If our squad was filled-out with quality players, and we were only looking to sign one or two new faces, then your point would be totally valid.

I think what a few people are saying is that he is a good player, could improve us, but not if it meant we couldn't strengthen other areas at the same time.

There's probably only a handful of players worth taking the risk of blowing our entire transfer budget on, and I imagine in the current market, that budget may well not even suffice!

I think what a few people are saying is that he is a good player, could improve us, but not if it meant we couldn't strengthen other areas at the same time.

Oh I get that alright Ayrton and always have but the thing is; as fans, we have to have some level of trust that the people 'above us' will know a) how much money is available, b) what areas need strengthened and c) what's best for the team.

It's a fact that FSG will not spend what (they don't believe) the club can afford. Therefore, It's not my concern, as a fan, how much they spend on a particular player - if they think he's worth it and we can afford it: it'll be spent.

As a fan, I'm way more concerned that we would miss out on a better player because he's deemed too expensive and then settle for second (or third) choice just because he's cheaper. As a fan I'm more concerned about what a player can bring to my team than how much he'll cost.

It would be a different matter if I; a) knew how much our budget was and b) what other player we would definitely be losing out on should we sign player X for Y amount. In my opinion, without knowing what the opportunity cost of signing a particular player is, it's a daft thing to worry about.

Each to their own tho', I suppose; if people want to speculate about 'what if's' or 'but maybe's' and play armchair accountants with an imagined budget (which ain't theirs)... fair enough. 

Each to their own tho', I suppose; if people want to speculate about 'what if's' or 'but maybe's' and play armchair accountants with an imagined budget (which ain't theirs)... fair enough.

Agree completely, just been reading a fair few times recently people stating things in a very black and white manner, which, in terms of a limited budget, just doesn't sound right to me.

Agree completely, just been reading a fair few times recently people stating things in a very black and white manner, which, in terms of a limited budget, just doesn't sound right to me.

Just like people saying we should only sign player X, if he cost less than Y amount because we might, might miss out on er... another player (who we haven't a clue even exists, never mind how much he'll cost) doesn't sound right to me. 

Truth is; my mind will never change on this so I'm going to offer an 'agree to disagree'. Oh and a Merry Christmas. 

we have to have some level of trust that the people 'above us' will know a) how much money is available, b) what areas need strengthened and c) what's best for the team.

Why? We don't have to have some level of trust; some do, some don't. Just like some trust the managers, while others don't...

Why? We don't have to have some level of trust

You wouldn't be arguing just for the sake of it Diego?

Hmm... So, if I've got this right - we don't have to have...  a level trust that those who control the purse strings [accountants] know how much money is available; no level of trust that Brendan knows what areas need strengthening and no level of trust that neither Brendan or FSG know what's best for the team? But...

'We' trust ourselves to know "better", than them, how the money should be spent... even tho' we don't know how much that money is?

Brilliant.   

I guess 'one' has to have a level of trust simply because 'one' really (when it boils down to it) knows a lot less than those above them. What 'level' that trust comes in at is up for debate but the fact that we need "a level" isn't, in my opinion, of course.

An opinion that I'm not asking you to agree with by the way. If you or anyone else don't trust Brendan or FSG to know how much we've got and who to spend it on fair enough. 

I guess 'one' has to have a level of trust simply because 'one' really (when it boils down to it) knows a lot less than those above them.

I just think you're being selective about what can and can't be debated. Yes, others at the club know better; just like they know better why Rodgers picked player A instead of player B, why FSG sacked manager A and appointed manager B, but it's discussed nonetheless, lots of things are assumed and asserted with near certainty despite the fact there's no inside information... but apparently it can't be discussed how much money we do have to spend. People make assumptions based on experience - and you, as a FSG critic, probably agrees that it's unlikely we'll spend a shitload of money in January - so that they can judge the club's activities. What a surprise.

I just think you're being selective about what can and can't be debated.

I've never said it shouldn't be debated - to suggest otherwise is a lie - I've only ever offered a counter opinion. An opinion which, weirdly enough, has lead to debate. What a surprise; eh?

You feel that the cost is more worthy of debate than me that's fair enough. I'll stick with whether he's [player X] good enough then worry if we miss out because we couldn't afford him... not worry about who we might miss out on if we don't sign player X. I can't see why my opinion annoys you so much.

I'll agree to disagree... just like I said earlier.

That said, if someone tells me that £30m for Rakitic because he's not good enough they'll get no debate from me: I don't pretend to know enough about him to argue.

you, as a FSG critic, probably agrees that it's unlikely we'll spend a shitload of money in January - so that they can judge the club's activities. What a surprise.

Yet you, as a fan of FSG, don't trust them to spend only what the club can afford. 

I guess I trust them, on some level, more than you. Crazy or what? 

That said, if someone tells me that £30m for Rakitic because he's not good enough they'll get no debate from me

That would make sense Mouse but when someone says he's an absolutely cracking player and would love them here then starts debating the price when they have no real idea what we have to spend, what he's really worth and ignores the fact FSG stated they will not spend if they don't think a player is worth it, then it sounds ridiculous.

Each to their own but if I think a player is a cracking player and would love him here I couldn't give a flying F**k how much FSG spend to get him here as they have proved they will not spend what we can't afford.

I'll stick with whether he's [player X] good enough then worry if we miss out because we couldn't afford him... not worry about who we might miss out on if we don't sign player X. I can't see why my opinion annoys you so much.

And I think excluding what economists call 'cost of opportunity' from any decision making process is either lazy or naive. Some things are intrinsically good but at such a cost that you can get better. Your opinion doesn't annoy me, your pedantry does - re-read your previous reply with laughs and sarcasm and it won't be difficult to see why. 

Yet you, as a fan of FSG, don't trust them to spend only what the club can afford.

I don't know if not buying into the forum paranoia makes me "a fan of FSG", but even if you can call me that, I can't see how it implies blind faith. And more to the point, when people discuss transfer fees it rarely means a worry about the club spending more than it can afford - usually they are interested in seeing the club making the best possible decisions (ie, signing the best players we possibly can), and as a fan I worry about all the decisions the club makes at every level. Besides, I have faith in the manager but will discuss his selections and substitutions, so to suggest that debating a certain decision means lack of faith is stretching things a little bit.

And I think excluding what economists call 'cost of opportunity' from any decision making process is either lazy or naive.

Sorry for being a pedant (again) but "Opportunity cost" only really works if you know a) how much you have to spend and b) what your alternatives are. Do you know either? 

Edit: "Opportunity Cost", for those who may not know - an example: You have £3.50 in your pocket. You are debating whether to spend it on either a pint of beer or a £3 scratch card. You chose the pint. The "opportunity cost" of you buying the beer is the thing you have forgone; i.e. the scratch card.

And more to the point, when people discuss transfer fees it rarely means a worry about the club spending more than it can afford - usually they are interested in seeing the club making the best possible decisions (ie, signing the best players we possibly can), and as a fan I worry about all the decisions the club makes at every level.

Good man. 

Like I said earlier, (if you re-read the post)... I have no problem with anyone not wanting the manager/Club to spend the Club's money on a player because they believe he's not good enough [or there is better]. Which is what you are now saying but... more to the point: wasn't what was actually being discussed when you 'joined in' (if you re-read the posts).

The 'problem' (really only a difference of opinion) lies where someone says he's good enough but "they" wouldn't pay more than X amount for him - which was what was being discussed when you chose to 'join in'. It's not their money. They don't have to pay any amount. Therefore telling us how much they would or would not pay (although a 'fun' game) is irrelevant. It's really very simple.

The 'problem' (really only a difference of opinion) lies where someone says he's good enough but "they" wouldn't pay more than X amount for him. It's not their money. They don't have to pay any amount. Therefore telling us how much they would or would not pay (although a 'fun' game) is irrelevant. It's really very simple.

Indeed and it really is that simple.

You rate a player, you think he's fantastic so just come out and say you'd love it if we sign him.

What that player costs is irrevelvant to us football fans as from my point of view I just want the club to be buying good players. It's even more irrelevant under FSG as they have said and proven that they will not waste the clubs money and only spend what we generate.

So even if your are one to be worried how much X player would cost and if he's even worth it FSG have let you off from worrying about it so just go back to being a football fan and less of an accountant.

Anyway back to Raktic and I've no idea if I'd like him here or not and it's nothing to do with money as I've not seen him play, and if I have I can't rememeber him.

F**k me what a load of pointless bickering haven't you got anything better to do?
Have you got all your crimbo pressies in already or what??

Rakitic would be fantastic playerfor us imo as i've said plenty of times in the Winter Transfer topic

No i wouldn't expect FSG to spend £30 million on him not when they believe they can get him for less
That's good mangement so fair play to them.

If Brendan does fancy him & i can't see why he wouldn't we'll buy him & it will be next month..

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/media-watch/metro-reds-scout-rakitic

Looks like €40m by-out clause. If he's actually available for £7m we should absolutely jump on him. He's probably worth twice that.

If I remember rightly the buy out clauses only really apply to Spanish Clubs, its a necessity in their contracts.