The 206th Merseyside Derby - Post Match Discussion.

SG says so himself, a number of times, in his own autobiography... maybe Stevie was just making up eh?

"Distant" is the word he uses to be exact.

So not "ultra-cold" then. Glad you cleared it up that you were just exaggerating.

we won and that is all matters, I couldn't care less about blushite moaning over penalties decision, like Smiggers said what goes around cames around..This 3 points brings us back where we belong and put some pressure on arsenal and united...Gerrard been substituted do sound a bit weird but RAFA must have his reason, no doubt that this will be ask why did you take Gerrard off..

In all a good day, always a good day to beat them, especially over there..still at work until 9.30 pm, but missus been called and told to get a fews cans for me for tonight.....

A win's a win in a Derby, but we got lucky today.  I didn't agree with Rafa's selection, or changes today, but we got the win, if we hadn't the critics would have been out in force.  I'm certain that Rafa is the right man for Liverpool Football Club, but even top manager's get thing's wrong sometimes and I thought his reason for substituting Gerrard today was bizarre!  He claimed that he substitued Gerrard for playing with his heart rather than his brain, but for me Gerrard had a good game today, and how Sissoko managed to stay on longer than Gerrrard is beyond me, as for large parts of the game he seemed to be playing with neither his heart nor his brain.
If we'd have only managed to draw today, then the decision to take off Gerrard would have been emphasised more, but like I say, we got lucky.  After playing for England midweek, Gerrard may have been a little tired, and with an important Champions league game coming up, Benitez may have had good reason to substitute Gerrard, but he played well today with his heart and his brain!

0 for rafa,I don't like the team

So not "ultra-cold" then. Glad you cleared it up that you were just exaggerating.

So you got nothing else to say about the core of the post - just want to comment on semantics - er OK..

Are we a better side without SG at the moment?

Anybody else other than semantics-master like to comment...?

(Semantics-master you may also say something if you wish...or you might want to pick holes on any exagerrated terms in this post... hahhaha)

Dose anyone think that Rafa was afraid Steven would 'lose his cool' and get sent off and this is the reason of the substitution?

He was obviously frustrated during the game and the constant chanting of 'the babys not yours' by the bitters may have been affecting him and he was therefore playing angry and was totally focused on getting one over everton and scoring himself rather than playing as a team.

I dont actually think this myself because Steven is a very experienced player and wouldnt let that bother him and actually played quite well during the game compared to his recent performances for Liverpool. Yet this could have been Rafa's thinking because i dont see why else you would sub steven in such an important game and point in the match.

Overall i believe that once steven was subed , although playing well himself we as a team started to look like we could get something out of the game therefore regardless of why SG was subed in the first place it was a good substitution and just becouse it was SG dosent mean it wasnt the right thing to do.

From the official site: http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N157380071020-1538.htm

Thank You! boss Rafa Benitez, You too, will never walk alone! Please keep It up!

Dose anyone think that Rafa was afraid Steven would 'lose his cool' and get sent off and this is the reason of the substitution?

He was obviously frustrated during the game and the constant chanting of 'the babys not yours' by the bitters may have been affecting him and he was therefore playing angry and was totally focused on getting one over everton and scoring himself rather than playing as a team.

I dont actually think this myself because Steven is a very experienced player and wouldnt let that bother him and actually played quite well during the game compared to his recent performances for Liverpool. Yet this could have been Rafa's thinking because I dont see why else you would sub steven in such an important game and point in the match.

Overall I believe that once steven was subed , although playing well himself we as a team started to look like we could get something out of the game therefore regardless of why SG was subed in the first place it was a good substitution and just becouse it was SG dosent mean it wasnt the right thing to do.

Simple answer NO.
Gerrard always gets that sung at him by those sorry bitter bluenoses, so why worry about it at this game ?
Rafa must have been thinking ahead.
Gerrard has played 2 games for the national team, the last being in Russia only on Wednesday, and we have imporant games ahead.
The game against Besiktas (in Turkey - so more travelling) is now a must win game, and then we have Arsenal at home - again another must win.

Now, think, is Rafa worried about Gerrard getting wound up about the crowd, or trying to rest the player and replace him with an exceptional talent - who Rafa trust's and has seen play a lot more than all of us put together.

And yes, we did play better once Gerrard left the pitch, maybe coincidence, maybe Lucas is something special or just maybe both.

So you got nothing else to say about the core of the post - just want to comment on semantics - er OK..

Are we a better side without SG at the moment?

Anybody else other than semantics-master like to comment...?

(Semantics-master you may also say something if you wish...or you might want to pick holes on any exagerrated terms in this post... hahhaha)

Ah, but the subtleties make the difference. More deflection?

This stuff you state about Rafa being "distant" is from two years ago, and I repeat, aren't you exaggerating it? All this stuff about Stevie's sensitivity...yeah, there's basis to it, but again, aren't you overstating the case? He's a professional footballer, our club Captain and some-time England captain. He's the hero of Istanbul, something you said also; but then you keep saying, " we all know how sensitive he is". Well actually, no, I don't. I see and I read, but I don't pretend to know the guy from it. You make it sound like you know him and he's a kitten who's about to cave-in.

How about answering the questions I put to you about why you say - for a fact - that Pako's departure is down to Rafa's pride? How do you know this all the way over in Spain? Is that in Stevie's auto-biography too? Oh hang-on, it came out last year, and Pako's departure was since then. What's your source for that again - oh yeah, you refused to say  - just referred to it being discussed on forums and phone-ins.

Feller, if you know things about recent events, why are you reluctant to reveal how? If you can't for some reason, what is the point of making statements about Pako without the facts to back them up? Why start? What, you think your statements will just be trusted off-hand? Rafa and the players constantly deny that Pako's departure is having a significant effect. Sure, it's bound to have had some effect, but again, how much is hard to say and down to speculation and impossible to really gauge from the outside, so your statements about Rafa's "cajones" are nothing more than speculation - without something concrete to back it up - and I'm not going to pander to such statements, or the person who makes them. If it was stated as an opinion - that's different, but that's not what you do. You state things as though they are known facts. That's why I pull you up.

In short, you are making arguments on false pretences; on facts not in evidence; an overstated case.

Ah, but the subtleties make the difference. More deflection?

This stuff you state about Rafa being "distant" is from two years ago, and I repeat, aren't you exaggerating it? All this stuff about Stevie's sensitivity...yeah, there's basis to it, but again, aren't you overstating the case? He's a professional footballer, our club Captain and some-time England captain. He's the hero of Istanbul, something you said also; but then you keep saying, " we all know how sensitive he is". Well actually, no, I don't. I see and I read, but I don't pretend to know the guy from it. You make it sound like you know him and he's a kitten who's about to cave-in.

How about answering the questions I put to you about why you say - for a fact - that Pako's departure is down to Rafa's pride? How do you know this all the way over in Spain? Is that in Stevie's auto-biography too? Oh hang-on, it came out last year, and Pako's departure was since then. What's your source for that again - oh yeah, you refused to say  - just referred to it being discussed on forums and phone-ins.

Feller, if you know things about recent events, why are you reluctant to reveal how? If you can't for some reason, what is the point of making statements about Pako without the facts to back them up? Why start? What, you think your statements will just be trusted off-hand? Rafa and the players constantly deny that Pako's departure is having a significant effect. Sure, it's bound to have had some effect, but again, how much is hard to say and down to speculation and impossible to really gauge from the outside, so your statements about Rafa's "cajones" are nothing more than speculation - without something concrete to back it up - and I'm not going to pander to such statements, or the person who makes them. If it was stated as an opinion - that's different, but that's not what you do. You state things as though they are known facts. That's why I pull you up.

In short, you are making arguments on false pretences; on facts not in evidence; an overstated case.

Read back - I said "in my opinion"... you really must stop being so sensitive to my posts darling.

Jammy and Donrafael stop bitching with each FFS, we won today didn't we, your like two old women, you should be celebrating, not bitching :

But the lad considers that "the graveyard shift" he hates playing on the wing - and by all accounts sulks when told to play there...

Source?

We look and play like 11 strangers on the pitch.

I am told that Pako was the good cop. Close to the players at Melwood. Feeding Rafa nuggets of information back in Rafa's office - as Rafa is a distant, cold, sober man-manager that has ZERO time for personal issues...

I am told? Who told you,Donrafael? That in Gerrard's book?

These aren't opinions dude - that's what I'm referring to. This is what you are saying as a matter of "fact".

Jammy and Donrafael stop bitching with each FFS, we won today didn't we, your like two old women, you should be celebrating, not bitching :

here here !

Source?
Steven Gerrard's autobiography - buy it. Will be backed-up by anybody else that has read it.
I am told? Who told you,Donrafael? That in Gerrard's book?

These aren't opinions dude - that's what I'm referring to. This is what you are saying as a matter of "fact".

Source?

I am told? Who told you,Donrafael? That in Gerrard's book?

These aren't opinions dude - that's what I'm referring to. This is what you are saying as a matter of "fact".

Source?

I am told? Who told you,Donrafael? That in Gerrard's book?

These aren't opinions dude - that's what I'm referring to. This is what you are saying as a matter of "fact".

1st point - re graveyard shift (on wing) it's well documented in SG's autobiograhy - read it.

2nd point -re Pako close to players (good cop) and Rafa (more distant/bad cop) is a point that has been made by various Valencia players over their years managing Valencia (e.g. Albelda...and I think even made by SG in his book, but not sure and I'm not about to re-read for you darling...) AND any way more to the point and recently by a good "mate" (more like a friend of a friend to be more exact) that is very close (family) to somebody on the LFC payroll (that narrows it down eh..hahaha)... and who actually helps me out on tickets and trips to see my beloved Reds...so I'm not about to name him ... so that you can sleep well at night ....so you (or anybody else here) can call me a liar, fabricator, fantasist... all you like - but I'm not naming ever. Like it or not - frankly I don't care... and yes it is nice to have a bit of insider (more than you are likely to ever have) - but not that it's worth more than a bit of banter in here... and the FACT that it gets on your tits, which is always worth the while.

Lastly... it's COJONES dear - not CAJONES (cajones are drawers) - and here the spanish lesson draws to a close.

1st point - re graveyard shift (on wing) it's well documented in SG's autobiograhy - read it.

2nd point - point made by various Valencia players over the years (e.g. Albelda) AND more recently a good mate that is very close to somebody on the LFC payroll... and who actually helps me out on tickets and trips to see my beloved Reds...so I'm not about to name him ... so that you can sleep well at night ....so you (or anybody else here) can call me a liar, fabricator, fantasist... all you like - but I'm not naming ever. Like it or not - frankly I don't care... and yes it is nice to have a bit of insider (more than you are likely to ever have) - but not that it's worth more than a bit of banter in here... and the FACT that it gets on your tits, which is always worth the while.

Ah - so you do claim insider knowledge, now. You are a gossip, then.

I'm aware of Stevie's aversion to the right wing - I have seen him say it in interviews.

So let's get this straight - the stuff about Stevie G "sulking", Rafa's pride over Pako, is down to your un-named insider source, from whom you get your tickets from.

Yeah, I think it would get on my tits, that some un-named employee is bad-mouthing Rafa and Stevie G to you, and you are repeating it on here.

Just wanted to know how reliable your info is. Now I know. Off to watch the match.

Ah - so you do claim insider knowledge, now. You are a gossip, then.

I'm aware of Stevie's aversion to the right wing - I have seen him say it in interviews.

So let's get this straight - the stuff about Stevie G "sulking", Rafa's pride over Pako, is down to your un-named insider source, from whom you get your tickets from.

Yeah, I think it would get on my tits, that some un-named employee is bad-mouthing Rafa and Stevie G to you, and you are repeating it on here.

Just wanted to know how reliable your info is. Now I know. Off to watch the match.

This guy does not bad mouth Rafa, or call SG a sulker - at all. What are you on?

Now you are getting really mixed-up son... get over it - enjoy the game.

You are desperately trying to spoil a good day ...and you won't.

COME ON YOU REDS.

Roll-on Besiktas...

Okay I think it was stupid how Gerrard was taken off instead of Sissoko, but once again like he did at Valencia CF he took off their best player when they were 3-0 down and they ended up getting a point due to that change, Lucas was the reason why we recieved all 3 points. I will never question Rafa again!

Sisssoko....what in God's name were we thinking to sign him on a 5 year deal?? He is hopeless, he can't pass and he's useless....Sorry lads, i know I shouldnt be complaining coz we won the derby, but watching him is so fustrating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sisssoko....what in God's name were we thinking to sign him on a 5 year deal?? He is hopeless, he can't pass and he's useless....Sorry lads, I know I shouldnt be complaining coz we won the derby, but watching him is so fustrating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Momo is starting to look clueless, how he stayed on is a mystery and Gerrard's face said it all.
I really do think it's time for Lucas to get a few more games, he looks quality and I'm worried he's not getting enough 1st team games and as a result he's procress might suffer, he should go out on loan if he isn't gonna play much and momo should be sold in jan as he's the weakest of our midfielders.

Firstly, jammydodger & donrafael, if you want to continue arguing do it via pm, everyone else is getting bored of it taking over every thread. Scouser10 as I said in my earlier post I think Momo has near enough as many negatives as positives, but when it comes to breaking up opposition play there's no-one better. For me he needs Alonso alongside him though, Xabi seems to understand his game better than anyone else & always makes himself available for the simple ball.

At first I want to congratulate you with our victory over Everton!
I didn't watch the game yesterday and knew the results from our Belarus commentator during the match MU vs Villa. I'll be able to watch review only on Monday. So then I can give my impression. Now I prefer trusting yours.
I'm simply very happy by the fact we won Toffees! I hope that win was well-deserved. Though our goals were scored by penalty as I heard and one in our own gate! All goals were scored by us! Some one wanted Liverpool score more. Next time I hope it will be only in rival gate. Especially in Arsenal's!
 Next time I'd like to see Torres score because he must be our top-goalscorer this season and then. Any one must break I.Rush record.
 And I'd like the same for Stevie G. It'll help him to overcome that moral charge after England defeat. He's a perfect captain and I think he feels more responsible for that than others.

We all know momo's stength and weakness and I agree with Eddie C that he nees alonso beside him so he can win it and give a simple ball.
The other point which I find strange is why most of you seem confused as why Stevie was taken off.  I think its pretty clear. At that stage in the game we had to gain control of MF. Stevie G does not control a game. As much as Momo loses the ball, he actually wins it more than most but then needs someone to give it to to calm things down and Lucas is a player who can do this and contol the MF. From what I saw we definitely had more control of the game when Lucas came on. As for the overall performance, it was average, but derby's against the blue noses rarely allow for good football. Based on the previous few games though we really need to up it by about 20-30%

i REALLY do not understand rafa and some of his decisions.
taking stevie off!what was he talking about,playing with heart not mind?is he saying stevie,the heart and soul and engine of our team is brainless?WTF?
i agree with previous poster re pennos.that was payback by at least two for that twit styles against chelsea.howlers from him yesterday too!ha ha.
i think rafa was lucky after taking stevie off that pool won!

Always nice to beat Everton,i thought we played ok as Everton never really troubled us they got a lucky lead and both penatlties were cast iron pens so they cant really complain as Stevie would have scored and Lucas shot was going in,so the best team won id say.