Liverpool 2-2 Aston Villa: In game and Post match deconstruction

The more I think about today's match, the more I think this thread's title should be changed to "post match disgust".

Lets be honest, whoever is to blame this is a sh*te result, theres no reason not to hammer Villa at home. Its points thrown away and (maybe jut I'm depressed post match) but these drop points are why we will now struggle to get top 4 or even top 6. Its so tight at the top 1 point instead of 3 is going to cost us very dear.

There's a way to go yet, but we have to start hammering the lesser sides, not just scraping wins and drawing, I mean genuinely hammering them, because today we took on an average side and looked no better than them. And thats not enough for a top 4 team.

Villa are awful but we've only beaten them once at home since 2009, and that was when half the fanbase genuinely wanted us to lose, so they could lay into Hodgson again.

Very disappointed with the result and performance. We were awful before half time and not much better after it. There was no urgency in the last half hour when we desperately needed a winner. Reminded me of the St. Petersburg game in that we didn't seem to know what to do after getting level and ended up doing nothing.

Defence is a shambles atm, with at least two goals conceded in 4 of the last 5 league games, and the blueballs are here next. We've been 7 points behind this season and retrieved it, and Arsenal lost to Villa at home.  But where we will retrieve 8 points from now,  I don't know.

Did anyone see the look Studge gave Toure in the second half when Toure just sent the ball up field to Studge and it came down with snow on it? He was like..."WTF was that man!?"

I actually thought Cissokho was our best attacking defender, right up until he wasn't. I mean, first half he was working hard, second half, oh my...oh my what was embarrassing

I'm also starting to get very nervous about WHOEVER it is has final say on our transfers:

Cissokho, Coutinho, Mignolet, Toure, Moses, Allen, Aspas

That lot have either been terrible from the start, or have gone terrible. If I were Henry, I'd start picking them myself. He couldn't do much worse

Coutinho? Allen? Both have shown their worth just a matter of a couple of games ago ESPECIALLY Coutinho who has a couple of average games and all of a sudden he's terrible. As for Mignolet's had a tough time of it but there has been some outstanding saves he has put in to safeguard many points this season. Christ almighty, knee jerk or what? Appalling coming on here and reading over reactions like that.

Just watched o MOTD and yeah first half we were abysmal, when the side was named I thought sh*t I hope that's not 4-4-2, as it turned out it proved to be a disaster in waiting,

I thought with Studgy back at home we could afford to play 3 at the back, not sure why Brendan thought playing with a weak midfield would give us the upper hand, clearly it didn't,

To be fair Villa could and should have been 3 up before we got our first, they totally outplayed us, until at last Brendan made the change, firstly by dropping Coutinho back and at half time when he replaced him with Lucss, moved Gerrard forward and played  3 at the back ,

With the extra man in midfield we at last started to dominate, despite all this I thought we were off the boil anyway,

Thought we could have nicked it but 'Desmond' 2-2, was a fair result,

I did listen on  'Talkshite' and I must say that that Kunt Collymore should be struck off , he blatantly called Suarez a cheat for what he described was a blatant dive for the pen, now that I've seen it for myself and heard the opinions on MOTD I'm f***in livid,

That dogging kunt kept on and on about it on air, f***in pr**k.

YNWA

Collymore? He's always going to be a misogynistic, women beating thick as pig sh*t sex deviant. Lower than vermin that man.

The way I see it:

We changed our formation to accommodate the return of Sturridge and it didn't pay off.

We started with a four man midfield, none of which are defense minded. Extremely risky against a team renowned for effective counter attacking.

I think everyone agrees that Suarez and Sturridge are starters, so Rodgers has a little problem on his hands now. Who is the man dropped? Today he went with Lucas and we saw quite clearly the negative impact it had on the team.

Also, the quicker Enrique returns the better. God do we miss him.

Agreed mate, good post.

It's a funny one because if either Suarez (ban) or Sturridge (injury) are out we tend to worry a bit, how well we'll cope with one of them out. We do indeed cope quite well if one or the other isn't playing because Rodgers can use an extra man in midfield or somewhere and all of a sudden we stop worrying about the striker who's out. It's when that striker comes back into the team things start to go a bit wonky because the balance that had been found in midfield now drops to accommodate the incoming striker and then as a team our form (on pitch) looks patchy until some kind of balance is restored with both Suarez and Sturridge in the side. This game highlights the patchy-ness we have to cope with before we find a formula/rhythm that accommodates these two.

IIRC, it was Sterling who missed out for a large part earlier on in the season with Coutinho, Suarez and Sturridge up top. The midfield wasn't nearly as much as disrupted like it was yesterday against Villa, because Rodgers still used 3 out and out midfielders.

So, Rodgers quite simply has to go on form, a straight choice between Coutinho and Sterling. It would also give us a good option from the bench. At the moment I'd have Sterling ahead of Coutinho as I think his form is very good and he does pitch in defensively too.

We looked much better when Lucas came on yesterday and whomever is picked between Gerrard and Lucas for the lone DM role, it doesn't really matter - so long as there are two midfielders ahead of the lone DM, Allen and Henderson, or Gerrard if Lucas goes in the DM positon. This is where the two points were dropped yesterday and Rodgers made a big error here. He's tried this before and it has failed, and in an attempt to accommodate all 4 forward attack minded players, he's left the opposition with acres of grass to exploit.

Our midfield isn't the best usually but it can just about get a job done; but weakening like Rodgers did yesterday was asking for trouble.

In a side like ours that ships in on average two goals a game, baring in mind the attacking talent of Suarez, Sturridge, Coutinho and Sterling, it essentially comes down to this: Who would you rather have in your side - Lucas or Coutinho/Sterling?

Agreed mate, good post.

It's a funny one because if either Suarez (ban) or Sturridge (injury) are out we tend to worry a bit, how well we'll cope with one of them out. We do indeed cope quite well if one or the other isn't playing because Rodgers can use an extra man in midfield or somewhere and all of a sudden we stop worrying about the striker who's out. It's when that striker comes back into the team things start to go a bit wonky because the balance that had been found in midfield now drops to accommodate the incoming striker and then as a team our form (on pitch) looks patchy until some kind of balance is restored with both Suarez and Sturridge in the side. This game highlights the patchy-ness we have to cope with before we find a formula/rhythm that accommodates these two.

IIRC, it was Sterling who missed out for a large part earlier on in the season with Coutinho, Suarez and Sturridge up top. The midfield wasn't nearly as much as disrupted like it was yesterday against Villa, because Rodgers still used 3 out and out midfielders.

So, Rodgers quite simply has to go on form, a straight choice between Coutinho and Sterling. It would also give us a good option from the bench. At the moment I'd have Sterling ahead of Coutinho as I think his form is very good and he does pitch in defensively too.

We looked much better when Lucas came on yesterday and whomever is picked between Gerrard and Lucas for the lone DM role, it doesn't really matter - so long as there are two midfielders ahead of the lone DM, Allen and Henderson, or Gerrard if Lucas goes in the DM positon. This is where the two points were dropped yesterday and Rodgers made a big error here. He's tried this before and it has failed, and in an attempt to accommodate all 4 forward attack minded players, he's left the opposition with acres of grass to exploit.

Our midfield isn't the best usually but it can just about get a job done; but weakening like Rodgers did yesterday was asking for trouble.

In a side like ours that ships in on average two goals a game, baring in mind the attacking talent of Suarez, Sturridge, Coutinho and Sterling, it essentially comes down to this: Who would you rather have in your side - Lucas or Coutinho/Sterling?

I understand how you would pick on form with Coutinho and Sterling but both SAS are in form, more so Suarez but Sturridge is looking really good.

I think as you said if we have a proper DM behind the midfielders and SAS it can avoid conceding less. I think an example was last night when Lucas came on and then Allen for Lucas later. We started playing great football, with Lucas/Allen they controlled the game, keep possession, distributed and intercepted play.

I think if we use this system, BR won't have to pick between the two. I completely agree though with picking on form, if Suarez wasn't playing well I would play only Sturridge and vise versa.

umm no guys, lets not oversteer this knee jerk reaction

SaS is good, both are  needed.  when you have two deadly players up front, you get goals.  as evidenced even by yesterdays game.  again.. we can score ... we just cant stop fishing the ball out of our side as well.

our midfield in the first half was shocking.  our defense/ goalie were shocking... especially on the 2nd goal.  Mig fu**ed up.  but at the same time wtf was johnson doing standing so close to mig and not marking his player.  had he stood correctly, after migs deflection, johnson could've cleared it.

what we need is to seriously look at our midfield.  its a travesty.  crappy going forward and crappy treading backwards.  i have said it so many times on this board, our team needs extremely mobile and specific skills to play the style BR wants.   it also doesnt help that halfway through a critical season, br is still juggling roles and lines.... he preaches stability with team ownership / managers.. same thing applies to players and positions.  F***ing shocking we were outplayed by villa at home....

a side comment.  i dont think BR can drop gerrard... it is a WC year and this will be gerrards last go at it.  i have a feeling BR is under some pressure to play gerrard   

When the second villa goal went in there was not a RED Shirt anywhere near Benetek,the marking was atrocious.

One word sums today up; atrocious.

Why the hell Rodgers went for that formation is beyond me, no matter what team, if they play that then they will get ripped apart.

This has eclipsed our worst performance to date this season and this is on par with the 3-0 hammering by West Brom at the start of last season. Will start with the keeper. Mignolet when he first signed and in his first handful of games for us I was confident, he looked assured and he looked like a very good signing. Now I am feeling less and less confident with every game that approaches because he is letting in more and more stupid goals, I know the defence play a big part in keeping a clean sheet but even without the defence side of things, Mignolet should have more shut outs than he has so far. Instead he is just getting more and more likely to let in a sloppy goal. Today he made a decent save from Agbonlahor I think it was but even then it was straight at him so it wasn't exactly difficult. The 2nd goal they scored, well, I have no idea what the hell he was playing at.

Johnson, my god I wish he would just retire now. He has been poor in recent months but today was probably the worst I have ever seen him play. I would make comment on him going forward in the game but I can't remember him having any sort of positive impact in doing so. Defensively he was once again no where to be seen, constantly out of position and he was just as much to blame for that 2nd goal as Mignolet. What them two were playing at is something only they know. Shocking and he needs to be spending some time on the bench, might give him the kick up the arse he needs.

Skrtel, was our est defender and even he wasn't great, half the time he was stood around looking dopey and playing astray passes when on the ball. However, he made some good tackles and was fairly decent in the air. Spends a lot of time having to cover one of the full backs that has gone missing.

Toure, another poor performance and showed why City never played him. Got beaten by the slowest step over in the history of world football that led to the opening goal. His performance was summed up when in the second half he went to head it, baring in mind there was no other player near him but completely missed the ball and then ended up having to scamper to get to it before the Villa player.

Aly "I've taken someone deserving of being a pro's place" Cissokho. Arguably one of our worst signings, right up there with Paul Konchesky. He was woeful defensively, got beaten so easily every time, especially when Agbonlahor eased past him and put in the cross for the 2nd goal. Was yelling at the tele when that happened!! Offered nothing going forward and we all know Suarez' infamous bite but when Cissokho had that abysmal shot I thought he'd be lucky to get away with just a bite from Suarez, thought he going to go over and batter the c**t to an inch of his life. COuld tell Suarez really didn't want to have to try and link up with him again after that point in the game. Could have done a lot better for the first goal too, he should have been aware of the player beyond him.

Gerrard, first half was shocking beyond belief. He was given the run round with ease, couldn't tackle, couldn't pass and was giving the ball away so cheaply when trying to travel with it. Was just as much at fault for the first goal as Cissokho, in fact I think he was just stood there with his hands on his hips looking at the Villa player, almost telling him to just put the ball in the net. Second half he was better but he was still playing badly. Took his penalty well though, will give him credit for that.

Hendo, I thought he played relatively well. He drifted in and out of the game and while he didn't help out much defensively he was more use than Gerrard in doing so. Was denied by a good save and got the assist from a clever pass on to Sturridge. The formation held him back in a game he could have taken control of IMO.

Coutinho, shocking. Will leave it at that because just thinking of his pass towards the corner flag alone if pissing me off.

Sterling I though played well, more so in the second half. Wasn't any use when it came to tracking back but he made some good runs with the ball and put a few Villa players on their arse more than once, tried linking up with SAS but was thwarted when it came to the vital moment. Not great but certainly one of our better players.

Suarez, looked very frustrated and probably regretted signing that new contract up until our first goal. Was given no service from the midfield and had to drop a lot deeper than he should be to get the ball. Played a big part in the opening goal and linked up fairly well with Sturridge. Wasn't a lot more he could have done today because of how poor everyone around him was and when he was in a good position to score it was fu**ed up, most notably Cissokho!! Let's not forget though, he did nearly score another beautiful free kick, was no way Guzan would have kept that out but for it going just wide.

Sturridge, much like Suarez he was given no service but dropped back into the midfield and showed them how it's done when you have to win the ball back. Took his goal well and kept his impressive goal rate going.

Lucas, sparked a bit of life into the team for about 5 minutes but faded big time after that, gave the ball away cheaply was taken off again after 25mins, something no player likes after being put on at half time.

Allen replace Lucas (apparently) only remember seeing some guy in the number 24 shirt spending most of his time on his arse from getting shoved off the ball constantly though.


Really poor team performance as a whole and although Rodgers can't accept responsibility for the on pitch performances by the players he does have to accept full responsibility for the way he set the team up. Today he went back a few months to when he couldn't work out what formation to use, except today it looked a lot like a case of having a very strong attacking players in SAS, Coutinho along with Hendo and Sterling who are in blistering form but had no idea how to play them.

It's all well and good thinking we showed good character and all that bullshit from coming back from 2-0 down but fact of the matter is, we shouldn't have been 2-0 down against  a team like Villa in the first place. We were the home team today against a very average (at best) team but in truth we didn't deserve that point, even that was generous because for the majority of that game they ripped us apart and made us look like a very poor team that should be battling relegation. Not good enough.

The only good thing that could come from this result is that the owners were at the game so let's hope they realise the need to invest more in the team and get a move on in doing so or we wont get top 4 because we are now well behind Arsenal and City, Chelsea will pull ahead of us even more if they beat the Mancs, Everton will leap frog us if they win and Spurs will go level with us.

Very disgruntled Red here!!

I like your analysis, this is a: good, honest and really useful dissection of the game yesterday. Thank you for the effort.
At least we got the draw, all things considered, is my feelings after the match and after waking up today.

I understand how you would pick on form with Coutinho and Sterling but both SAS are in form, more so Suarez but Sturridge is looking really good. 

Which is why SAS would be picked every time. But with SAS in the team we could only really pick one of Coutinho and Sterling without disrupting our midfield. We disrupted it yesterday with four attack minded players and dropped two points.

I was actually about to say something similar to the post I've quoted from 7-King Kenny-7 in relation to the owner being there.
 The owner being here; must know, even with limited knowledge of our league, that our midfield and wing backs need revamping or total overhauling, to put it in purely business terms.
Investment is needed
BR got it very wrong for this game.
I am not knee-jerking, it was so wrong from the outset, all my family could see that when we watched it.
they sliced through us from the first few kicks and it looked like we were playing with 9 men, not totally sure why.
The players did well to come into the second half with the attitude they did to be fair but omg what an odd game.

> Looking around the interwebs for MOTD
> not as easy as I thought it would be
> just realised it's on BBC1 again in two minutes

If anyone wants to watch it, it's on the telly now ppls.

Coutinho? Allen? Both have shown their worth just a matter of a couple of games ago ESPECIALLY Coutinho who has a couple of average games and all of a sudden he's terrible.

Don't agree. Couts has shown his worth, and has been fantastic for us, but lately he's been terrible. I didn't say he is full stop, just currently. And Allen, he's had has a fairly good game now and again, but to me he has never 'shown his worth' as you put it. That's my opinion; you think Couts has been average, I actually think he's been terrible and needs dropping.

As for Mignolet's had a tough time of it but there has been some outstanding saves he has put in to safeguard many points this season.

I never said he's not been outstanding for us - I agree he has been. But lately he's been a liability and cost us a few goals/points. Right now I think he's having a terrible time of it.

Christ almighty, knee jerk or what?

Not at all

Appalling coming on here and reading over reactions like that.

I'll clarify then

Cissokho for 98% of this tenure here, has been terrible
Coutinho for the last half a dozen games, has been terrible, not even close to average. His passing has gone to pot, his shooting has been woeful, and he's faded in games
Mignolet, for the last half a dozen games, has been very poor.
Toure, for the last dozen games, has been gradually getting worse, last night, he was terrible
Moses, has just been plain terrible
Allen, apart from three maybe four games, has been terrible, and he's not been anything special in those three or four games
Aspas, aside from that one goal has been terrible when played

Context is important, and I said "That lot have either been terrible from the start, or have gone terrible". I've not said they are terrible - ship them out now

We can discuss semantics all day and perhaps I should have used the word 'very poor', or, 'extremely disappointing'. It's my opinion that at some point in their career to date, and for all of those players, whether right now in time, or the last 6 games/days, every one one of those players mentioned has been terrible for us at some point in their career.

Villa sliced thru our midfield last season and they did the same this time round. When are we going to learn to counter Villa's midfield? That engine room has been chugging away since last season and it is still so. We simply do not have the burly, fast running and tough tackling midfielders but we got Cissokho instead. What made the signing committe got him onboard I just couldn't understand. Perhaps they had too much to drink when they made the decision. He offers nothing going forward and defending, as if we're playing with only 10 players and plenty of backpasses from him. Talking of Traore the worst player, I'm afraid that spot has been taken over by Cissokho. At least Traore did one thing right in his Liverpool career, that is to stop a goal bound shot in the 2005 CL final that won us the cup. That itself is enough to balance up for whatever deficiencies he had in his game.

Don't agree. Couts has shown his worth, and has been fantastic for us, but lately he's been terrible. I didn't say he is full stop, just currently. And Allen, he's had has a fairly good game now and again, but to me he has never 'shown his worth' as you put it. That's my opinion; you think Couts has been average, I actually think he's been terrible and needs dropping.
I never said he's not been outstanding for us - I agree he has been. But lately he's been a liability and cost us a few goals/points. Right now I think he's having a terrible time of it.
Not at all
I'll clarify then

Cissokho for 98% of this tenure here, has been terrible
Coutinho for the last half a dozen games, has been terrible, not even close to average. His passing has gone to pot, his shooting has been woeful, and he's faded in games
Mignolet, for the last half a dozen games, has been very poor.
Toure, for the last dozen games, has been gradually getting worse, last night, he was terrible
Moses, has been just awful
Allen, apart from half a dozen games, has been terrible
Aspas, aside from that one goal has been terrible when played

You took the word 'terrible' and never read the context I used it in. I stated "That lot have either been terrible from the start, or have gone terrible". Not that, they are terrible, ship them out now

We can argue semantics all day and perhaps I should have used the word 'very poor', or, 'extremely disappointing'. It's my opinion that at some point in their career to date, and for all of those players, whether right now in time, or the last 6 games/days, everyone one of those players mentioned has been terrible for us

Sadly, gotto agree with this. Either they are not good enough or that they coudn't adapt to the tactics. Not sure which is more acurate, perhaps both.

Don't agree. Couts has shown his worth, and has been fantastic for us, but lately he's been terrible. I didn't say he is full stop, just currently. And Allen, he's had has a fairly good game now and again, but to me he has never 'shown his worth' as you put it. That's my opinion; you think Couts has been average, I actually think he's been terrible and needs dropping.

Allen doesn't ever seem to get a run of games to really prove his 'worth' due to the relationship he has with the physio's bed. I thought he was good when Gerrard was out over the Christmas period but as he's always in and out the side it's hard to really gauge. Regarding Coutinho, I'd say his shooting and his final ball have been terrible but his involvement during the game has been good, over all I'd say he's been average and would definitely have Sterling ahead of him at the moment, going on form.

I never said he's not been outstanding for us - I agree he has been. But lately he's been a liability and cost us a few goals/points. Right now I think he's having a terrible time of it. 

100% agree. His form has dipped, no doubt. Whether that's a knock on effect from our pi$$ poor defending I don't know, but his form is worrying.

Villa sliced thru our midfield last season and they did the same this time round. When are we going to learn to counter Villa's midfield? That engine room has been chugging away since last season and it is still so. We simply do not have the burly, fast running and tough tackling midfielders but we got Cissokho instead. What made the signing committe got him onboard I just couldn't understand. Perhaps they had too much to drink when they made the decision. He offers nothing going forward and defending, as if we're playing with only 10 players and plenty of backpasses from him. Talking of Traore the worst player, I'm afraid that spot has been taken over by Cissokho. At least Traore did one thing right in his Liverpool career, that is to stop a goal bound shot in the 2005 CL final that won us the cup. That itself is enough to balance up for whatever deficiencies he had in his game.

Indeed they did. Twice now Rodgers has played right into their hands.

MOT F***ing D only had a phone in about the pen - was it a dive by Suarez or not?!?!?!
Not a regular feature by any means, in fact I can't recall it happening before.

MOT f**king D only had a phone in about the pen - was it a dive by Suarez or not?!?!?!
Not a regular feature by any means, in fact I can't recall it happening before.

My thoughts too, the vendetta against suarez is ongoing, however, I'll or I'd take it with a pinch of salt, lets not all act like football hooligans or yobs please.
Remember a sense of humor approach to life

They usually do a vote of some sort and they did say in the studio that Suarez didn't dive. What I was more annoyed about was the headline in the paper they showed, "Suarez in a spot of bother...again." Really? Because he might have went down under minimal contact? This happens nearly every game these days and I don't remember a player occupying the full back page as a result.

MOT f**king D only had a phone in about the pen - was it a dive by Suarez or not?!?!?!
Not a regular feature by any means, in fact I can't recall it happening before.

Can't remember myself,I could not tell from where I was sat but friends who were bang on with it said deffo pen so I waited to watch replay's contact was made deffo pen so how could MOTD have a phone poll? (x)Ar******s...How many times have we had them given? we have either been awarded or in most cases NOT!,just seems to be cause it's Suarez he went down,dived,played for it,the BBC and other pundits should leave it to the fella in the black shirt of which it's very rae they get it right but in this case YES!.

Did not read most of the pages apart from the last 2
  I think  these 2 points we lost( or  a point gained) was a wrong tactic IMHO, we gave the midfield in the hands of AV, we missed a player like Lucas, we played with only 2 stevie and  Hendo,  when we were playing so good with Lucas (or Allen) in there too, , Personally I don't see stevie as a DM,
 I just hope these lost points will not come to haunt us come May !!

 Now we have to move on and think about the next game

 YNWA

1 day later and the lost points still hurt