The defence, a discussion

Well as uneasy as it is to watch sometimes, and relief when the final whistle goes sometimes, I wouldn't swap the way we play for the likes of Chelsea etc.

I bet there are a lot of people who support other teams wished they were playing like us.

Lets just enjoy the ride, and see where it takes us.

F**k that. Football is about winning. That's all that counts. I couldn't give a merry F**k if we were the most boring, hated team in the league as long as we win it.

Which, incidentally, is what we actually were often viewed as in our glory years. Don't all get carried away with that one glorious season of Barnes, Beardo, and Aldo. We bored our way to trophies quite often and made more use of the back pass to the keeper than forward pass to the striker. We always used to approach away games with the mantra "keep the crowd quiet". That didn't mean scoring 4 first half goals. It meant boring the tits off them and passing it between ourselves to grind out a win.

You cannot entertain your way to a title. Winning 1-0 in a bore-fest is equally important, and until we can do that, we won't win it again.

Defence needs sorting.

One thing I think we are lacking at the back, and take away everything here in terms of tactics but I think we are lacking a leader..

No one is taking hold of it, say what we will about drop offs in form or age coming to it but to lose Carra and to an extent Pepe from that back 4/5 at the end of last season is telling..
Carra was a great leader, as well as all of his other qualities he marshalled the back 4 and talked players through games.. Pepe was a very vocal keeper who would take control of the defence by either sweeping up or keeping the defenders on their toes..

Mignolet for his obvious shot stopping qualities just simply won't come off his line, the cbs at times seem to be waiting for him to come and he won't.. So maybe they need to just take control themselves and clear everything out and just think Mignolet won't come at all.

Skrtel and Agger aren't natural organizers or the most vocal..

We have always had leaders back there and dominant keepers and I seriously think we are missing Carra and Pepe more than we give credit for..

We need a natural leader back there.

My honest opinion is this get Reina back in goal next season keep the rest
& we have a great chance of the title.

Mignolet imo is simply not ready he needs a season learning from Reina

Just like Clemence did back in Shanlkly's time.
Just like Grobb did in Paisley's era..

We can't afford to do that. We paid £10m for Mignolet and were paying Reina £100,000 a week. As if FSG would allow that to happen.

I'm note even sure if that works at all in football these days, buy a player and let him learn "The Liverpool Way" in the ressies for a season or two. They'd be on the phone to their agents about a loan move in about 10 seconds unless they're under 18. And even then, probably.

You cannot entertain your way to a title. Winning 1-0 in a bore-fest is equally important, and until we can do that, we won't win it again.

We did the 1-0 bore fests at the beginning of the season to set ourselves up for an assault on the league.  Then we released the krakens on an unsuspecting public and hey presto, we've been in the top 4 virtually all season.

Maybe we won't win the title this season due to it being a little too soon for Brendans plan but if we can improve 3 places again next year, we'll be Champions.

We need a natural leader back there.

Might be the most important thing said in this entire thread. I wonder if Brendan thought Toure would add that leadership to the lineup and that's part of the reason he brought him in?

Might be the most important thing said in this entire thread. I wonder if Brendan thought Toure would add that leadership to the lineup and that's part of the reason he brought him in?

I think he did and too an extent particularly in training ( from what we hear) he certainly adds that.. And when he came on on Sunday he added that.. Unfortunately he doesn't have the legs anymore for 90minutes a week with the looks of things.







I also think there may be a mentality thing to the way we approach games.. If you look at the Arsenal game and the Everton game the way we started and the high energy we threw into closing down and pressing meant we just didn't let them settle.. Against Swansea it was maybe 10% off and gave them a foothold in the game, maybe the lads thought we could blow them apart as they aren't the level of those other two without mentally as much effort..
That must drive Brendan mad and that where we can improve, take every game like the Arsenal game

Would be handy if we could see a compilation of our goals conceded. There are a few games that have led to us either drawing or losing where the goals against us have been individual errors.

The Southampton game - for example wasn't a systemic problem. Skrtel tries to be fancy and let the ball run past him and runs it out of play, then from the throw-in Toure takes a bad touch and runs it into touch for a corner. Completely avoidable if The two players in question make better decisions.

The Hull game - as dreadful as we were was an own-goal by Skrtel and a deflection.

The Newcastle game - the goal to put them 2-1 up Toure and Skrtel actually challenge each other for the header, neither deal with it and it gets flicked on and its a good finish from Dummet.

The West Brom game - We all know what happened with Toure and this game.

The Villa game - the way we started that game we didn't deserve a draw really. Either way it was points dropped and mabe a little critical but I think Toure sits a little too deep, we could have stepped up and maybe played Agbonlahor offside for Weimann's goal. The second goal was Mignolet coming for a cross and not dealing with it. Gerrard was at full back and Toure was at left wing when Benteke scores the goal.

The Man City game - Perhaps Mignolet could have done a little better with Negredo's shot.

The Chelsea game - Aside from the referee's inability to act on a few decisions which helped to cost us points, There are two or three occasions where we could have defended a little better for the Eto'o goal. Agger could do more to prevent a ball coming in, the ball bounces around off Sahko and then Skrtel could be a little better at getting in front of his man. (Skrtel getting goalside on the whole is something that needs working on).

The Everton game - Mirallas goal again we sit too deep and Skrtel attacks the man more than the ball. The Lukaku goal, Johnson gives the ball away when he doesn't need to and Lucas gives away a clumsy foul to put us under pressure which we could have avoided. The third goal Henderson and Gerrard make a couple of poor decisions to put us under pressure and lead to the corner which Lukaku put in. I do have to mention though that Mirallas had a hand in most of what Everton did well that day and he should have seen red so had the game been referreed correctly then the result may have been different.

Nobody is perfect and defenders are always the first to be blamed. But if we are looking at it you have to dissect each and every mistake. Very few of those badly conceded goals came from Sahko or Flanagan. They have made the least individual errors between them and so are the most reliable. The more we can get those two in the eleven the better.

I agree that the way we are set up means we are always liable to concede as we push forward, but when you look at most of the goals we actually do concede, we usually have numbers back and it is individual errors or players not doing their jobs correctly that was the cause.

Take the three goals against Swansea. The first goal (Shelvey) we had enough players back, we allowed a player to run along the edge of our penalty area before passing to Shelvey who admittedly finished superbly.

The second goal (Boney), Skrtel gave away a silly foul, we then had numbers back to defend the free kick and in all honesty the goal itself was just bad luck. 

The third goal was a mistake by Stirling and Johnson giving the ball away out on the wing when there was absolutely no danger. A simple cross and maybe a dubious call but Skrtel needn't have touched him as Agger cleared the ball easily.

We are conceding a lot of goals , but most of them are individual mistakes rather than inherent to our tactics or style of play. These type of mistakes are usually due to mental tiredness which I do believe is a factor.The way our defenders are asked to play means that they not only have to concentrate on defending, but also on distribution as well.

The other factor is that our defenders are having to defend more because we no longer have two defensive midfielders covering in front of them. The more often defenders are asked to defend the more likely that they will make an error.

I think our defenders had it much easier before Brendan and now they are being called on more frequently, their flaws are beginning to show more frequently too. 

I also think they had it easier before because they had Pepe and Carra telling them what to do and where to go .... now they have to make their own decisions.

I agree S@int I just think our defenders need to be more disciplined, it's great to see us playing the way we are attacking wise,and it's clear it's working, we are always going to be more exposed at the back so for me our defenders need to be at the top of their game in every single match,

With injuries and what not we have not been consistent enough hence BR mixing things up, that brings about the inconsistencies and in turn a change in how confident players have in one another,
We have all seen recently that cohesion is lacking amongst the back 4 especially between Migs and the CB's,

So for me I believe a defensive coach solely to work with BR and the back 4/5 would bring about a more cohesive unit, disciplined and all singing from the same song sheet, I don't think we can ever completely eradicate individual mistakes but with special coaching it could lessen the amount of mistakes we see each season, ive said before that Steve Clarke could be very helpful for our defense, don't think it's to bad a shout if he were to come in , don't think he'd refuse either.



YNWA

BR needs to decide who is 2 centre halves are now for the last 11 games. Those 2 need to live together for those 11/12 weeks know each other inside out. Know each others thoughts know each others movements know each others strenghts and weakness's. And play a lot closer to each other then our pairings have to date. Almost a Toshack/Keegan realytionship but at the back.

Mignolet then needs to to come in and make it a threesome, that he knows them 2 inside out and knows when they need him to take command of the area and when he can leave it to his 2 centre halves.

If we get that in place then we can leave our front 6 to do what they do outstandingly well and we can continue to fire in goals but cut out conceeding as many. Do that = Champions

Too simple? 

I admire how Brendan sends out this current team to win every game and by doing so we end up winning far more than we lose so I'm not too unhappy right now.

I think that's one of the best things about him mate.

He has installed that belief that we don't fear anybody, we go out and try to win every game. The only game I think we didn't have that attitude was Arsenal away in the League. But for me that was at a time where we didn't believe in ourselves - especially as title contenders. But the past couple of months, we've just diminished those thoughts and truly believed that we are better than the opposition.

BR needs to decide who is 2 centre halves are now for the last 11 games. Those 2 need to live together for those 11/12 weeks know each other inside out. Know each others thoughts know each others movements know each others strenghts and weakness's. And play a lot closer to each other then our pairings have to date. Almost a Toshack/Keegan realytionship but at the back.

Mignolet then needs to to come in and make it a threesome, that he knows them 2 inside out and knows when they need him to take command of the area and when he can leave it to his 2 centre halves.

If we get that in place then we can leave our front 6 to do what they do outstandingly well and we can continue to fire in goals but cut out conceeding as many. Do that = Champions

Too simple? 

Tut tut Brian, your not advocating that our defenders take part in a spot of
Spit-roasting are you ?     

YNWA

Tut tut Brian, your not advocating that our defenders take part in a spot of
Spit-roasting are you ?     

YNWA

The past time of every pro footballer isnt it?   

Tut tut Brian, your not advocating that our defenders take part in a spot of
Spit-roasting are you ?     

YNWA

Jeez Bill

If it would guarantee clean sheets and the title they could spit roast me

Jeez Bill

If it would guarantee clean sheets and the title they could spit roast me

I've never seen a clean sheet after a bit of spit roasting & the last thing I would want is being sandwiched between any of our back 4 especially Toure & Sahko

Jeez Bill

If it would guarantee clean sheets and the title they could spit roast me

I've never seen a clean sheet after a bit of spit roasting & the last thing I would want is being sandwiched between any of our back 4 especially Toure & Sahko

 

F**k that. Football is about winning. That's all that counts. I couldn't give a merry f**k if we were the most boring, hated team in the league as long as we win it.

Which, incidentally, is what we actually were often viewed as in our glory years. Don't all get carried away with that one glorious season of Barnes, Beardo, and Aldo. We bored our way to trophies quite often and made more use of the back pass to the keeper than forward pass to the striker. We always used to approach away games with the mantra "keep the crowd quiet". That didn't mean scoring 4 first half goals. It meant boring the tits off them and passing it between ourselves to grind out a win.

You cannot entertain your way to a title. Winning 1-0 in a bore-fest is equally important, and until we can do that, we won't win it again.

Defence needs sorting.

Ok fella, calm down, just my opinion like.

BR needs to decide who is 2 centre halves are now for the last 11 games. Those 2 need to live together for those 11/12 weeks know each other inside out. Know each others thoughts know each others movements know each others strenghts and weakness's. And play a lot closer to each other then our pairings have to date. Almost a Toshack/Keegan realytionship but at the back.

Mignolet then needs to to come in and make it a threesome, that he knows them 2 inside out and knows when they need him to take command of the area and when he can leave it to his 2 centre halves.

If we get that in place then we can leave our front 6 to do what they do outstandingly well and we can continue to fire in goals but cut out conceeding as many. Do that = Champions

Too simple?

You kinky f**ker Brian .

Twos company.
Threes an orgy.

Where is this going .......

Twos company.
Threes an orgy.

Where is this going .......

Fours a Giroud ?

I think there isn't a lot of instruction to the defenders from the coach staff. I don't see a clear strategy defending set pieces or what to do with a long ball from the opposite team. The defenders doesn't seem to have a great understanding between them.

 

I've never seen a clean sheet after a bit of spit roasting & the last thing I would want is being sandwiched between any of our back 4 especially Toure & Sahko

You experienced in the noble art are we Shabs ?   

I think there isn't a lot of instruction to the defenders from the coach staff. I don't see a clear strategy defending set pieces or what to do with a long ball from the opposite team. The defenders doesn't seem to have a great understanding between them.

Very insightful are you on the coaching staff.

Fair enough it may be sh*te or the players don't carry it out very well but do you honestly believe they don't have any defensive coaching.............!!