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      Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia

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      Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Mar 04, 2014 09:41:45 pm
      Global sports events are about solving disputes between countries through competitive sports, rather than battlefields. They are also about creating effective infrastructure and boosting economic development for the host nation. The recent 2014 Winter Olympics have shown that neither of that is true if Russia is the host country.

      Just days after 2014 Winter Olympics ended, the Russian Federation Council approved Vladimir Putin’s request to send military troops to Ukraine – the third conflict (after Chechnya and Georgia) that Russia engaged itself into since the new millennium.

      The infrastructure development connected to 2014 Winter Olympics turned into an enormous theft of public funds, with some USD 24bn used for kickbacks to Russian officials. In the recent opinion poll 43% of Russians said they no longer want Olympic Games to be held in Russia, with 26% undecided and only 32% in favor of hosting another event.

      The preparations for 2018 Football World Cup in Russia will almost certainly be coupled with a large scale theft of public funds. And as the recent events in Ukraine show, hosting the event in Russia will have no positive effect on peace in the region.

      The misappropriated public funds and media frenzy connected to the World Cup in Russia will only help Vladimir Putin win his fourth term in the office on presidential elections that are scheduled to take place on the very same 2018 year.

      Taking into consideration the abovementioned, we ask FIFA to REVOKE its decision to host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia.

      We also ask FIFA partners Adidas, CocaCola, Hyundai, Kia Motors and Visa to do everything possible to move the event into a peaceful and less corrupt country.

      We also call on professional football players and football fans to publicly endorse the idea of transferring the right to host 2018 FIFA World Cup to another country.

      Moving 2018 FIFA World Cup to another country will save Russia’s public funds from theft by corrupt government officials, and help distance football from politics of war and authoritarianism.

      If you support the initiative please sign the petition.
      http://www.change.org/petitions/fifa-revoke-the-decision-to-host-2018-fifa-world-cup-in-russia
      fishpie
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #1: Mar 05, 2014 11:18:41 pm
      Global sports events are about solving disputes between countries through competitive sports, rather than battlefields. They are also about creating effective infrastructure and boosting economic development for the host nation. The recent 2014 Winter Olympics have shown that neither of that is true if Russia is the host country.

      Just days after 2014 Winter Olympics ended, the Russian Federation Council approved Vladimir Putin’s request to send military troops to Ukraine – the third conflict (after Chechnya and Georgia) that Russia engaged itself into since the new millennium.

      The infrastructure development connected to 2014 Winter Olympics turned into an enormous theft of public funds, with some USD 24bn used for kickbacks to Russian officials. In the recent opinion poll 43% of Russians said they no longer want Olympic Games to be held in Russia, with 26% undecided and only 32% in favor of hosting another event.

      The preparations for 2018 Football World Cup in Russia will almost certainly be coupled with a large scale theft of public funds. And as the recent events in Ukraine show, hosting the event in Russia will have no positive effect on peace in the region.

      The misappropriated public funds and media frenzy connected to the World Cup in Russia will only help Vladimir Putin win his fourth term in the office on presidential elections that are scheduled to take place on the very same 2018 year.

      Taking into consideration the abovementioned, we ask FIFA to REVOKE its decision to host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia.

      We also ask FIFA partners Adidas, CocaCola, Hyundai, Kia Motors and Visa to do everything possible to move the event into a peaceful and less corrupt country.

      We also call on professional football players and football fans to publicly endorse the idea of transferring the right to host 2018 FIFA World Cup to another country.

      Moving 2018 FIFA World Cup to another country will save Russia’s public funds from theft by corrupt government officials, and help distance football from politics of war and authoritarianism.

      If you support the initiative please sign the petition.
      http://www.change.org/petitions/fifa-revoke-the-decision-to-host-2018-fifa-world-cup-in-russia

      The most corrupt and cowardly nation in the world is the USA, constantly bullying random nations that aren't even on the same continent.
      Killing random civilians as if it's justified, sending in drones and killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
      just because Russia doesn't want to bend and be weak in the face of American arrogance and disgusting obnoxious actions it doesn't make them worse.
      Just because Russia haven't got a media campaign to promote homosexuality like English and American media organisations have doesn't make them Neanderthal or backwards. It's their culture.
      We are forced to have notions rammed down are throat by the corrupt media to the point where we are sick of hearing the same crap over and over, we get in trouble if we voice an opinion.

      No, I won't boycott or join your weird campaign against Russia, can I join one against America?


      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #2: Mar 06, 2014 12:02:35 am
      Since when he F**k was this about the US??
      Reslivo
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #3: Mar 06, 2014 12:07:33 am
      Nah, I don't dislike Russia so they can keep the WC.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #4: Mar 07, 2014 12:25:51 pm
      Nah, I don't dislike Russia so they can keep the WC.

      Your post reminded me of that article on the Financial Times by Simon Kuper:

      Sports events: Faded glory
      By Simon Kuper

      Russia is learning that playing host is a dubious honour and requires new tactics

      In July 2007 the International Olympic Committee gathered in Guatemala City to choose a host for the 2014 Winter Olympics. Pyeongchang in South Korea was expected to win. But when Russia’s president Vladimir Putin strode into the IOC’s hotel, the entire lobby and floor above gawped. To general surprise, Mr Putin opened Sochi’s presentation in touchingly poor English. Visibly, the man was trying. When an IOC member asked the Russians whether Sochi would have enough snow, Mr Putin stood up and promised snow. Sochi was named host. Mr Putin got credit for the victory but told Russians the IOC’s vote was “a judgment of our country”.

      Days before Sochi’s games start next Friday, he is sounding less triumphant. Foreign media reports are focusing on Olympic cost and waste, notably the 48km-long, $8bn road-and-railway, which for that price could have been coated in Beluga caviar. With a total bill of about $50bn, Sochi is the most expensive Olympics. And Russia’s games have also become a lightning rod for western anger over Moscow’s homophobic policies.

      Other hosts of big sporting events are suffering, too. Brazilian protesters poured into the streets last June to protest (among other things) about the expense of this year’s football World Cup and the Rio Olympics of 2016. Qatar has experienced multiple embarrassments since being awarded the 2022 World Cup, including reports of mistreated workers. Hosting has rapidly lost much of its prestige.

      Why has public opinion shifted, and how should international sporting bodies and hosts reinvent hosting?

      Before the 1990s hosting was usually a low-key affair. Los Angeles was the only bidder for the 1984 Olympics. It funded its games almost entirely with private money, as largely did Atlanta in 1996. Most football World Cups were played in scarcely renovated older stadiums.

      But globalisation and new television channels showing sport changed that. Each new host raised the bar, with spiffy new sporting facilities. Politicians, needing to justify the rising cost, claimed that hosting would boost the economy. They invoked hordes of shopaholic visitors, the free advertising of host cities and the long-term benefits of the roads and stadiums that would be built. When Tokyo was named host of the 2020 Olympics, Shinzo Abe, Japan’s prime minister, said: “I want to make the Olympics a trigger for sweeping away 15 years of deflation and economic decline.”

      Yet these claims of economic bonanza are false. Most economists agree that hosting big sporting events is an economic strain, says Stefan Szymanski, economics professor at the University of Michigan, with whom I have co-authored a book.

      This is largely because the things a country buys for a sports tournament – stadiums, roads to the stadiums, extensive security – are rarely the things it needs for daily life. Often the venues become white elephants the moment the tournament ends. That happened in South Africa after the World Cup of 2010, and is forecast to happen to many Brazilian stadiums after this year’s tournament. London’s Olympic stadium eventually found a tenant, West Ham United Football Club, but the state is paying most of the costs of revamping the venue.

      In addition, the much-touted shopaholic visitors rarely materialise. Some people do come for the tournament but others who would otherwise have visited the country stay away to avoid the high prices and frenzied atmosphere. Greece estimated that tourism fell 10 per cent during the Athens Olympics of 2004, as vacationers chose other summer destinations. The South African World Cup also drew far fewer visitors than forecast.

      Worse for the hosts, the income from these tournaments – chiefly from TV rights and sponsorship deals – mostly goes to the IOC and Fifa.

      Admittedly, the costs of hosting are usually small in the scale of government budgets. The estimated price of Brazil’s stadiums for the World Cup has ballooned since 2007 to about $3.5bn. That is not much alongside the $400bn-plus that the country plans to plough into its ageing infrastructure in coming years. It also seems a small price to pay for the national glory that politicians in host nations typically promise. When Rio was awarded the 2016 Olympics, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, then president, said the “victory” showed that Brazil was becoming a “first-class” country.

      Yet worldwide the political pendulum is swinging from national glory to issues of the pocket. For western countries, this is the age of austerity. The sight of governments spending billions on a fortnight of sport can be offensive. In referendums last year, the citizens of Munich and Vienna voted against bidding to host the Olympics.

      “Anti-stadium movements” have popped up across the US. Local politicians in Minnesota and Atlanta have recently not let residents vote on tax-funded stadiums for sports teams, presumably for fear of No votes.

      Citizens of developing countries such as Brazil or Russia can think of other things their governments could spend money on. Brazilian protesters have demanded “Fifa-standard” schools and hospitals.

      It is no longer even clear that hosting increases national glory. Instead, it can highlight a host’s flaws. Munich and Atlanta emerged from staging the Olympics with battered reputations.

      Now Qatar is taking a beating. Almost all publicity about its prospective World Cup has been about the country’s brutal heat, immigrant construction workers dying in accidents, and allegations that Qatar, in the phrase of Jérôme Valcke, Fifa’s secretary-general, “bought the WC [World Cup]” – something that Qatar denies.

      Likewise, when Bahrain hosted a Formula One race last year, F1’s boss Bernie Ecclestone, said: “The government here are stupid to put this race on. It is a platform for people to use protesting.”

      In the past, a smooth tournament was taken as proof of the host country’s efficiency and knowhow. But the South African World Cup of 2010 changed perceptions.

      South Africa, not exactly known for smooth delivery of public works, pulled off a flawless World Cup. But instead of reflecting well on the country, the lesson many took away was that Fifa and the IOC had become so experienced at organising these tournaments that they can stage them almost anywhere. The host country just needs to follow the guidelines – and pay up.

      In this new hostile climate, host governments are on the defensive. Mr Putin said recently that Sochi’s games would cost the Russian government only $7bn – about a seventh of the sum that Dmitry Medvedev, his prime minister, admits to.

      Rising costs and diminishing glory will put some countries off hosting. Fifa and the IOC therefore need to change tack. One temptation for them is to give tournaments to dictatorships that do not care much what their inhabitants think. As Mr Valcke lamented about Brazil: “Sometimes less democracy is better for organising a World Cup.” The dictatorships of Angola, Gabon and Equatorial Guinea have hosted recent African Nations Cups in football.

      . . .

      But even leaving aside ethics, anointing authoritarian regimes is problematic. Mike Wragg, head of market research at Repucom, an industry monitoring group, notes that “public interest and awareness levels broadly speaking are down” for the Sochi Olympics. More people than usual worldwide do not know these games are happening.

      Mr Wragg says this is largely because western sponsors have done little advertising around the games, in part perhaps for fear of associating themselves with Mr Putin’s government.

      The IOC understands the growing scepticism about hosting and seems to be trying a new strategy: to scale down the Olympics. It chose Tokyo for the 2020 summer games partly because the city promised a relatively modest event, using many existing venues. An Olympics there seemed likely to do less economic damage than in smaller rival bidding cities Madrid and Istanbul. And a cheaper games need not mean a less popular games. Most people watch the Olympics for the sport, not the facilities.

      Uefa, Europe’s football association, is trying a more radical strategy. Michel Platini, its president, uneasy about white elephants left behind by previous European Championships – notably Euro 2004 in Portugal – decided not to name a single host for Euro 2020. The burden would have been too great, especially in these tough economic times, explained Gianni Infantino, Uefa’s general secretary. Instead Uefa will choose 13 host cities in different countries.

      Governments that still want to host need a new strategy, too. Instead of promising economic benefits, they should tell their citizens the truth: hosting a tournament is like hosting a party. You do not throw a party to make money. You do it to have fun.

      And hosts do seem to have more fun. When Prof Szymanski and Georgios Kavetsos of the London School of Economics studied European hosts of football tournaments, they found that inhabitants’ self-reported happiness rose after the tournament.

      Likewise, British happiness rose slightly after London’s Olympics despite the economic crisis. Especially in developed countries, happiness is a good argument for hosting. An “economic bonanza” is not.

      http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/88e6a890-8a65-11e3-ba54-00144feab7de.html#slide0
      FL Red
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #5: Mar 08, 2014 07:30:59 am
      The most corrupt and cowardly nation in the world is the USA, constantly bullying random nations that aren't even on the same continent.
      Killing random civilians as if it's justified, sending in drones and killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
      just because Russia doesn't want to bend and be weak in the face of American arrogance and disgusting obnoxious actions it doesn't make them worse.
      Just because Russia haven't got a media campaign to promote homosexuality like English and American media organisations have doesn't make them Neanderthal or backwards. It's their culture.
      We are forced to have notions rammed down are throat by the corrupt media to the point where we are sick of hearing the same crap over and over, we get in trouble if we voice an opinion.

      No, I won't boycott or join your weird campaign against Russia, can I join one against America?




      Yes please boycott America, you will definitely teach them a lesson, stupid yanks! :lmao:

      stuey
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #6: Mar 08, 2014 09:03:12 am
      Yes please boycott America, you will definitely teach them a lesson, stupid yanks! :lmao:



      Got no dog in this tete a tete but that response does bear out the comment to which it is addressed. 
      FL Red
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #7: Mar 08, 2014 03:19:27 pm

      Got no dog in this tete a tete but that response does bear out the comment to which it is addressed. 

      Yes...because hundreds of millions of American citizens are the ones perpetrating the alleged injustices that he's talking about. So you want to boycott an entire nation because of the actions of their (non) Representative Government?? That makes a lot of sense.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #8: Mar 08, 2014 04:07:21 pm
      The West has never understood Russia, Russian politics, or Russian culture.

      Russia, like many countries across the world, is in favour of family-friendly policies. Just because the Western media wants everyone to be treated the same, regardless of the consequences, doesn't make their policy a human rights abuse.

      In Ukraine, Russia has decided to flex it's muscle. A "referendum" has been called to ratify the polticians announcement that Crimea will return to Russia. It will be ratified. The referendum will be Russian democracy in action, where all means necessary are taken to ensure a proposal gets over the line. The west says it won't recognise the result. The reality is they will have to. It is democracy, just not as we know it.

      In Western culture, everyone is treated the same. In Russian culture, the man has his role in life and the woman has her role in life. Arguably, their culture is more stable and secure. And that's what ethnic Russians want in Ukraine now.

      In Brazil, wums are protesting about hosting the WC, demanding more cash be spent on infrastructure. The reality is Brazil hasn't hosted a WC in 60+ years. How many hospitals have been built there in that time? People still fall ill. That's not FIFA's fault, is it?
      staffletop
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #9: Mar 08, 2014 05:00:40 pm
      I am not going to respond to fishpie...he is either Russian (in which case I understand why he is angry) or he just hates America and he isn't worth listening to because his points have nothing to do with this situation.

      Russia wants the Crimea, its very important to them, its just a shame they couldn't have found a peaceful way of getting there.

      On the referendum...its a farce and a lie. There's only 2 questions on it.
      1..Do you want to be Russian?
      2..Do you want the borders returned to what they were in 1954, (when Crimea was Russian as was most of eastern Europe)?
      There's no question asking if they want to remain Ukrainian...there's nothing democratic about the referendum at all, its a cheap way for Russia and Crimean politicians to legitimise their take over of the region.

      I guess the west (NOT JUST AMERICA) will allow Russia to keep the Crimea, there isn't much they can do about it and aren't really that bothered anyway. But if Russia tried to further encroach on Ukrainian territory THE WEST will impose trade sanctions on Russia and push them into a third world economy. Putin knows this and will back down. Ofc he wont tell his people this, he will puff his chest out in that overly masculine way that he is fond of, and tell them he alone is responsible for his victory in the Crimea, and the Russian people will accept this as truth because they are just a gullible as the rest of us when it comes to nationalism.

      If that's not made my opinion clear enough I will make it easier...I have signed the petition because I think Russia's behavior in this instance is dsigraceful, undemocratic and criminal and they don't deserve to host the worlds most prestigious competition.
      stuey
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #10: Mar 08, 2014 05:09:40 pm
      Yes...because hundreds of millions of American citizens are the ones perpetrating the alleged injustices that he's talking about. So you want to boycott an entire nation because of the actions of their (non) Representative Government?? That makes a lot of sense.

      I was referring to the perceived arrogance/dismissiveness of your response, I do believe a great many Americans have the same attitude without realising it's existence, I have no view on the matter you speak of above. 
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #11: Mar 08, 2014 05:18:43 pm
      Can't see the issue here, I did not see many folks protesting against England hosting the Olympics even though we participated in Illegal wars & backed extremist elements in certain countries to destabilise them further.

      Its a shame when sporting events are hijacked for political agendas.

      FL Red
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #12: Mar 08, 2014 09:50:54 pm
      I was referring to the perceived arrogance/dismissiveness of your response, I do believe a great many Americans have the same attitude without realising it's existence, I have no view on the matter you speak of above. 
      Has nothing to do with arrogance, it has everything to do with the perception that all Americans are lock step supporters of the type of foreign policy and arrogance shown by our government. "Boycotting" America has no affect on the foreign policy of our government which is why I made the comment I did. What it boils down to is that it's convenient to blame "America" for the ills of the world when the entire human race on this planet is the real perpetrator. We are all guilty.
      Canuck33
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #13: Mar 15, 2014 10:53:41 pm
      If the Russians are stupid enough to elect themselves a peasant like his predecessor Ras-Putin, then that's their problem.
      « Last Edit: Mar 15, 2014 11:38:37 pm by Canuck33 »
      manwithnoname
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #14: Mar 17, 2014 01:37:54 pm
      The West has never understood Russia, Russian politics, or Russian culture.

      Russia, like many countries across the world, is in favour of family-friendly policies. Just because the Western media wants everyone to be treated the same, regardless of the consequences, doesn't make their policy a human rights abuse.


      In Western culture, everyone is treated the same. In Russian culture, the man has his role in life and the woman has her role in life. Arguably, their culture is more stable and secure. And that's what ethnic Russians want in Ukraine

      What are you actually on about? Family-friendly policies? The woman has her role in life? Their culture is more stable and secure?

      I've got a bad feeling about this
      manwithnoname
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #15: Mar 17, 2014 01:41:40 pm
      The most corrupt and cowardly nation in the world is the USA, constantly bullying random nations that aren't even on the same continent.
      Killing random civilians as if it's justified, sending in drones and killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
      just because Russia doesn't want to bend and be weak in the face of American arrogance and disgusting obnoxious actions it doesn't make them worse.
      Just because Russia haven't got a media campaign to promote homosexuality like English and American media organisations have doesn't make them Neanderthal or backwards. It's their culture.
      We are forced to have notions rammed down are throat by the corrupt media to the point where we are sick of hearing the same crap over and over, we get in trouble if we voice an opinion.

      No, I won't boycott or join your weird campaign against Russia, can I join one against America?

      Sorry who has a campaign to promote homosexuality?

      As for the rest of your swivel-eyed gibberish, I'm afraid to say that it's risible and borderline lunacy. Using 'culture' as a mitigating differential factor is retarded.

      Female genital mutilation is culturally acceptable in many parts of the world. It's still F***ing retarded though
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #16: Mar 19, 2014 03:19:20 am
      Quote from manwithnoname
      What are you actually on about? Family-friendly policies? The woman has her role in life? Their culture is more stable and secure?

      I've got a bad feeling about this

      Russian culture is traditional, and what Russians (especially from the Soviet era) want. They want an orderly society, and the state to look after them, even if it comes with a lack of democracy and accountability.

      However flawed the referendum was, it was passed. The West may talk tough, but those who voted rejected Kiev rule. Russia runs the place now, and have given the Ukrainian soldiers the week to get out. However bitter they feel, they have no choice. If they don't go voluntarily, they'll be driven out, which may lead to a war in the rest of Ukraine, that they simply cannot win.
      fishpie
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #17: Mar 26, 2014 01:32:00 pm
      I am not going to respond to fishpie...he is either Russian (in which case I understand why he is angry) or he just hates America and he isn't worth listening to because his points have nothing to do with this situation.

      Russia wants the Crimea, its very important to them, its just a shame they couldn't have found a peaceful way of getting there.

      On the referendum...its a farce and a lie. There's only 2 questions on it.
      1..Do you want to be Russian?
      2..Do you want the borders returned to what they were in 1954, (when Crimea was Russian as was most of eastern Europe)?
      There's no question asking if they want to remain Ukrainian...there's nothing democratic about the referendum at all, its a cheap way for Russia and Crimean politicians to legitimise their take over of the region.

      I guess the west (NOT JUST AMERICA) will allow Russia to keep the Crimea, there isn't much they can do about it and aren't really that bothered anyway. But if Russia tried to further encroach on Ukrainian territory THE WEST will impose trade sanctions on Russia and push them into a third world economy. Putin knows this and will back down. Ofc he wont tell his people this, he will puff his chest out in that overly masculine way that he is fond of, and tell them he alone is responsible for his victory in the Crimea, and the Russian people will accept this as truth because they are just a gullible as the rest of us when it comes to nationalism.

      If that's not made my opinion clear enough I will make it easier...I have signed the petition because I think Russia's behavior in this instance is dsigraceful, undemocratic and criminal and they don't deserve to host the worlds most prestigious competition.

      I'm neither anti-American or Russian.
      My point wasn't really about the US v Russia.
      To me, I don't see any outcry about the illegal activities of American bullying of nations that aren't even on the same continent.
      Uproar abut Russia from the Americans and England is a joke.
      Diplomacy will prevail in regards to the Ukraine, but, the Russians aren't pussies and won't roll over to the arrogant US government and their twisted agendas.
      Wow! Like England have been so respectful about other peoples borders and have never went from this island and invaded another country by force... Oh wait!


      You are listening to the story through English and American media so the information will be biased accordingly.
      OK? My opinion. Leave it at that and don't take pot shots at me.
      fishpie
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #18: Mar 26, 2014 01:37:51 pm
      Sorry who has a campaign to promote homosexuality?

      As for the rest of your swivel-eyed gibberish, I'm afraid to say that it's risible and borderline lunacy. Using 'culture' as a mitigating differential factor is retarded.

      Female genital mutilation is culturally acceptable in many parts of the world. It's still f**king retarded though

      You mean Circumcision of the clitoris like circumcision of a penis?
      Why do they do it to men?
      What is swivel eyed gibberish you cretinous troll of a person?
      I mentioned homosexuality because that was the last controversy they aimed at Russia before the Winter Olympics.
      I'd boycott Qatar. Where is that poll?
      FL Red
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #19: Mar 26, 2014 01:47:36 pm
      I'm not defending the US, but to try and defend Russia by pointing the finger at the US and England is foolish. But if you want to appear foolish, keep it up.

      shabbadoo
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #20: Mar 26, 2014 01:58:50 pm
      I'm not defending the US, but to try and defend Russia by pointing the finger at the US and England is foolish. But if you want to appear foolish, keep it up.



      I think Fishpie is pointing out the double standards from certain countries,USA,UK,France,Germany etc have all condemned Russia regarding Crimea but those very same countries have facilitated the creation of Israel on a state called Palestine.

      Double standards indeed.
       
      heimdall
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #21: Mar 26, 2014 02:05:38 pm
      In t
      You mean Circumcision of the clitoris like circumcision of a penis?
      Why do they do it to men?
      What is swivel eyed gibberish you cretinous troll of a person?
      I mentioned homosexuality because that was the last controversy they aimed at Russia before the Winter Olympics.
      I'd boycott Qatar. Where is that poll?

      In modern society persecution based on sexuality or religion should never be accepted, especially not by a government.
      Can you inform me please when was the last time ANY country in the west annexed a part of another by force? I'll give you a hint, it led to World War 2.
      Now I'm not sure if Russia wants to start World War 3, I hope and pray they don't, but if they keep pushing they'll get wiped out, it will be a bloody and horrible war but they will NOT win.
      heimdall
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #22: Mar 26, 2014 02:07:29 pm
      I think Fishpie is pointing out the double standards from certain countries,USA,UK,France,Germany etc have all condemned Russia regarding Crimea but those very same countries have facilitated the creation of Israel on a state called Palestine.

      Double standards indeed.
       


      Almost 70 years ago!!! Israel in hindsight probably was a mistake but it was backed by almost every single country in the world, although not necessarily in the middle east ;-).
      FL Red
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #23: Mar 26, 2014 02:12:45 pm
      I think Fishpie is pointing out the double standards from certain countries,USA,UK,France,Germany etc have all condemned Russia regarding Crimea but those very same countries have facilitated the creation of Israel on a state called Palestine.

      Double standards indeed.
       


      So if a police officer (who has admittedly broken the speed limit while driving his personal car at one point in time) pulls you over for breaking the speed limit, does his history of exceeding the speed limit mean that you weren't actually speeding?



      shabbadoo
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #24: Mar 26, 2014 02:15:24 pm

      Can you inform me please when was the last time ANY country in the west annexed a part of another by force? I'll give you a hint, it led to World War 2.


      Now I'm not sure if Russia wants to start World War 3, I hope and pray they don't, but if they keep pushing they'll get wiped out, it will be a bloody and horrible war but they will NOT win.

      The bold bit, Yugoslavia,Serbia, Kosovo ring a bell?.

      The second part about Russia being wiped out,let me draw your attention to this link, you been listening to her? ;)

      Former Ukrainian Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko threatens to wipe Russia out.

      Daft bi*ch I would say,world was safer when she was behind bars.


      http://xrepublic.tv/node/8134


      So if a police officer (who has admittedly broken the speed limit while driving his personal car at one point in time) pulls you over for breaking the speed limit, does his history of exceeding the speed limit mean that you weren't actually speeding?



      No, but I would expect the officer to lead by example & show some understanding of the situation as appose to issuing sanctions a ticket.


      TheRedMosquito
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #25: Mar 26, 2014 02:20:52 pm
      I think Fishpie is pointing out the double standards from certain countries,USA,UK,France,Germany etc have all condemned Russia regarding Crimea but those very same countries have facilitated the creation of Israel on a state called Palestine.

      Double standards indeed.
       


      Germany wasn't involved in the creation of Israel as they weren't included on UN Partition Plan. The Soviet Union, however, did in fact vote in favor of creating Israel. The UK was an abstention, but did set forth the agenda regarding Palestine. Not sure how this example is relevant.
      FL Red
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #26: Mar 26, 2014 02:31:07 pm
      No, but I would expect the officer to lead by example & show some understanding of the situation as appose to issuing sanctions a ticket.

      Thanks, I needed a good laugh today. :lmao:

      shabbadoo
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #27: Mar 26, 2014 03:01:59 pm
      Thanks, I needed a good laugh today. :lmao:



      Me too, hence the response.
      FL Red
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #28: Mar 26, 2014 03:39:16 pm

      So by your logic only a nation that has a completely untarnished track record throughout it's history should ever be involved in condemning the rogue actions of one country against another.

      So basically anarchy is cool then. Understood.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #29: Mar 26, 2014 04:04:10 pm
      So by your logic only a nation that has a completely untarnished track record throughout it's history should ever be involved in condemning the rogue actions of one country against another.

      So basically anarchy is cool then. Understood.

      Quote
      Jesus

      "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her"

      Anarchy is controlled, there would be none if there were justice in the world, it's that simple.
      FL Red
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #30: Mar 26, 2014 04:32:52 pm
      Anarchy is controlled, there would be none if there were justice in the world, it's that simple.

      Justice? What is justice but a man made idea to attempt to justify one's morality?
      heimdall
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #31: Mar 26, 2014 05:12:58 pm
      The bold bit, Yugoslavia,Serbia, Kosovo ring a bell?.

      The second part about Russia being wiped out,let me draw your attention to this link, you been listening to her? ;)

      Former Ukrainian Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko threatens to wipe Russia out.

      Daft bi*ch I would say,world was safer when she was behind bars.


      http://xrepublic.tv/node/8134


      No, but I would expect the officer to lead by example & show some understanding of the situation as appose to issuing sanctions a ticket.




      WTF are you on about, in what way was Yugoslavia annexed?? "The Breakup of Yugoslavia occurred as a result of a series of political upheavals and conflicts during the early 1990s." "After the Communist victory in World War II, Yugoslavia was set up as a federation of six republics, with borders drawn along ethnic and historical lines: Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro and Macedonia." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_of_Yugoslavia
      If anything the terrible wars which raged in the early 90's was a result of the borders created by the Soviets.
      fishpie
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #32: Mar 26, 2014 06:41:48 pm
      I'm not defending the US, but to try and defend Russia by pointing the finger at the US and England is foolish. But if you want to appear foolish, keep it up.

      It's not really that foolish to be reasonable. Most of the time what we hear on the news isn't the real story and I'm not versed enough in the history of Crimea to know the logistics or events that have initiated this coup or whatever it's actually supposed to be.
      Why on Earth America is poking their noses into Europe when we have other countries here who can deal with the issue makes me suspicious.
      America start things slyly to get people in power who will go along with some dodgy plan they set in motion.
      For now I'm looking forward to the match today and won't keep track of this, so, sorry about that.
      fishpie
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #33: Mar 26, 2014 06:47:35 pm
      In t
      In modern society persecution based on sexuality or religion should never be accepted, especially not by a government.
      Can you inform me please when was the last time ANY country in the west annexed a part of another by force? I'll give you a hint, it led to World War 2.
      Now I'm not sure if Russia wants to start World War 3, I hope and pray they don't, but if they keep pushing they'll get wiped out, it will be a bloody and horrible war but they will NOT win.

      My feeling is; there is more to the story than we've been led to believe. I never dismiss Russia's stance on certain things as stupid or from another era, their world is a different place type ideals. I like that Russia and China are not so easily led by American based world games.
      I'd shudder if I thought America had free right to stomp around the globe and implement it's various f'd up ideas.
      To me now, America is in the transition of becoming a fascist police state.
      FL Red
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #34: Mar 26, 2014 06:53:13 pm
      It's not really that foolish to be reasonable. Most of the time what we hear on the news isn't the real story and I'm not versed enough in the history of Crimea to know the logistics or events that have initiated this coup or whatever it's actually supposed to be.
      Why on Earth America is poking their noses into Europe when we have other countries here who can deal with the issue makes me suspicious.
      America start things slyly to get people in power who will go along with some dodgy plan they set in motion.
      For now I'm looking forward to the match today and won't keep track of this, so, sorry about that.
      I've actually been to Ukraine...spent a couple of weeks in Kiev back in 2008 for work. Small sample size but the people that I talked to were none too happy even back then with Russia's disputes over the Crimea and with what they saw as lingering Russian influence.

      If you want to put America on a pedestal of being the bad guy, go ahead....but to leave Russia off (among others) is ridiculous. Their intentions are no better than what you claim are America's intentions in foreign affairs.
      heimdall
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #35: Mar 26, 2014 07:02:53 pm
      My feeling is; there is more to the story than we've been led to believe. I never dismiss Russia's stance on certain things as stupid or from another era, their world is a different place type ideals. I like that Russia and China are not so easily led by American based world games.
      I'd shudder if I thought America had free right to stomp around the globe and implement it's various f'd up ideas.
      To me now, America is in the transition of becoming a fascist police state.

      You seem to have some kind of agenda against the USA, calling it a fascist state is absurd, what are you actually basing that on? Like it or not Russia invaded and annexed a part of another country, there is no way of sugar coating that, they acted like bullies but ultimately lost a lot of respect from other countries in the world. It was a stupid stupid move from them, the clever play would have been to buy Crimea from Ukraine in return for erasing their debt and maybe some money on top.

      manwithnoname
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #36: Mar 27, 2014 01:13:23 pm
      My feeling is; there is more to the story than we've been led to believe. I never dismiss Russia's stance on certain things as stupid or from another era, their world is a different place type ideals. I like that Russia and China are not so easily led by American based world games.
      I'd shudder if I thought America had free right to stomp around the globe and implement it's various f'd up ideas.
      To me now, America is in the transition of becoming a fascist police state.

      As opposed to the liberal rose garden that is China and Russia.

      You are totally mental.
      vitez
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #37: Mar 28, 2014 02:40:30 pm
      WTF are you on about, in what way was Yugoslavia annexed?? "The Breakup of Yugoslavia occurred as a result of a series of political upheavals and conflicts during the early 1990s." "After the Communist victory in World War II, Yugoslavia was set up as a federation of six republics, with borders drawn along ethnic and historical lines: Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro and Macedonia." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_of_Yugoslavia
      If anything the terrible wars which raged in the early 90's was a result of the borders created by the Soviets.

      Serbia did infact annex parts of both Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina.  Croatia in turn annexed parts of Bosnia-Herzegovina (a good chunk of the Herzegovina part).  The terrible wars which raged in the early 90s were the result of borders created by the UK, France, Russia and Italy (see: London Pact of 1915) and later the Germans, who thought it was more important to make Yugoslavia a military might (despite the obvious cultural, linguistic and most importantly, religious differences - cultural, not so much) so as to withstand German expansionism rather than having money for the simple things, like food for your people.  Yugoslavia (albeit by a different name) had been around for over 20 years by the time WWII broke out.  1920s Yugoslavia and 1990s Yugoslavia was for all intents and purposes the same country.
      « Last Edit: Mar 28, 2014 03:46:42 pm by vitez »
      waltonl4
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #38: Apr 30, 2014 03:43:43 pm
      Russia loves to portray itself as the injured party and the usual " nobody understands" us bollox. Russian citizens should ask themselves the question who has killed more Russians , America or Russia. It has to be the most corrupt nation on Earth when it comes to politics.
      I am really not a Fan of the USA's politics but do me a favour.
      .
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #39: Apr 30, 2014 04:23:59 pm
      Russia loves to portray itself as the injured party and the usual " nobody understands" us bollox. Russian citizens should ask themselves the question who has killed more Russians , America or Russia. It has to be the most corrupt nation on Earth when it comes to politics.
      I am really not a Fan of the USA's politics but do me a favour.
      .

      No great fan of Putin but Russia do have a valid case regarding Ukraine & Crimea.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Revoke the Decision to Host 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia
      Reply #40: Aug 03, 2014 12:32:16 pm
      No great fan of Putin but Russia do have a valid case regarding Ukraine & Crimea.

      Russia dose not but maybe the people do. the fall of the former Soviet Empire was not done well this is the aftermath of it all and it needs to be dealt with without the influence of outside forces. Jeez the world is in a shitty state at present.

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