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      Inquest updates

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      RedPuppy
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #25: Jul 01, 2014 10:36:28 am
      Hillsborough 'mistake was repeated'
      A Spurs fan who witnessed ''enormous crushing'' at Hillsborough in 1981 has sais ''the same mistake'' was made in 1989.
      Professor Norman Felton at the new inquests into the later disaster which claimed 96 Liverpool supporters lives.
      In 1981 Prof Felton was secretary of the Sheffield Spurs Supporters Society.
      He said the society compained about being allocated the smaller Leppings Lane end of the ground.


      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-28095597
      Thanks Stuey, I'm on holiday, and it's difficult to find the links as it's BBC.com here.

      I can fully understand why they did not want any of this to come out.

      Hick and Gillette, said the NESV take over was an epic swindle, well this is a truly Epic Swindle of Justice.

      If there is any compensation to be paid, I hope it is paid on today's estimation of loss, and not 1989's.

      None of them can claim they did not know that the tragedy was a possibility after all the warning signs and concerns of staff and fans.
      stuey
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #26: Jul 01, 2014 12:58:46 pm
      Thanks Stuey, I'm on holiday, and it's difficult to find the links as it's BBC.com here.

      I can fully understand why they did not want any of this to come out.

      Hick and Gillette, said the NESV take over was an epic swindle, well this is a truly Epic Swindle of Justice.

      If there is any compensation to be paid, I hope it is paid on today's estimation of loss, and not 1989's.

      None of them can claim they did not know that the tragedy was a possibility after all the warning signs and concerns of staff and fans.

      Hope you're having a good time mate on your jollies.
      The complicity becomes clearer with every disclosure at the inquest on a daily basis, it is to be hoped that scratching the surface of the cover-up leads to some bigger heads rolling.
      reddebs
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #27: Jul 01, 2014 01:09:13 pm
      Hope you're having a good time mate on your jollies.
      The complicity becomes clearer with every disclosure at the inquest on a daily basis, it is to be hoped that scratching the surface of the cover-up leads to some bigger heads rolling.

      Pity nobody bothered looking at these things at the original inquests mate.  Let's hope the real culprits are forced to accept they were responsible for those 96 deaths and the subsequent tarnishing of anyone from the City.
      stuey
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #28: Jul 01, 2014 01:36:36 pm
      Pity nobody bothered looking at these things at the original inquests mate.  Let's hope the real culprits are forced to accept they were responsible for those 96 deaths and the subsequent tarnishing of anyone from the City.

      The outrageous cover up from the highest government departments to the plod outside the ground were all involved in not bothering to investigate the tragedy correctly, that was no coincidence Debs; the blame can be spread in equal measure to the very top of the political spectrum.   
      RedPuppy
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #29: Jul 01, 2014 01:43:23 pm
      Pity nobody bothered looking at these things at the original inquests mate.  Let's hope the real culprits are forced to accept they were responsible for those 96 deaths and the subsequent tarnishing of anyone from the City.

      It was convenient to just say we've had an inquest, and blame them scousers.

      A huge thanks should go out to the fan on the Kop who shouted Justice, I think it was, and fair play to the MP, sorry can't remember his name off the top of my head, who was speaking at the time
      who had the balls to actually start the First Proper Inquiry.

      I wonder how many of the authorities thought it would be as thorough as it has been.
      reddebs
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #30: Jul 01, 2014 02:19:37 pm
      The outrageous cover up from the highest government departments to the plod outside the ground were all involved in not bothering to investigate the tragedy correctly, that was no coincidence Debs; the blame can be spread in equal measure to the very top of the political spectrum.   

      It was just too easy mate, for them and the rest of the country to accept their version of things.  Whatever happens with these new inquests though, some people will never accept that they were so easily conned by all of the establishment.
      reddebs
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #31: Jul 01, 2014 02:25:11 pm
      It was convenient to just say we've had an inquest, and blame them scousers.

      A huge thanks should go out to the fan on the Kop who shouted Justice, I think it was, and fair play to the MP, sorry can't remember his name off the top of my head, who was speaking at the time
      who had the balls to actually start the First Proper Inquiry.

      I wonder how many of the authorities thought it would be as thorough as it has been.

      Andy Burnham was the MP mate and even he's admitted since that it took him aback at the time.  As you say though he had the balls to stand up and be counted.

      I doubt they did realise how in depth it would be but I said after the release of the HIP report that there would be nowhere for them to hide now.  It had to be thorough as it was too damning of too many for it to be another whitewash.
      RedPuppy
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #32: Jul 01, 2014 03:03:22 pm
      Cheers Debs 

      I wonder if he got a right telling off when he got back to Parliament.
      reddebs
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #33: Jul 01, 2014 05:47:13 pm
      Cheers Debs 

      I wonder if he got a right telling off when he got back to Parliament.

      No worries mate.

      More like a "why bother, there's been enough enquiries but all with the same outcome." 

      There's been disdain from the very top since day one mate so I doubt anyone gave it a second thought.
      stuey
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #34: Jul 01, 2014 08:08:06 pm
      waltonl4
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #35: Jul 04, 2014 10:08:47 am
      I can imagine the mutterings in the corridors of power "why don't those awful scouse people just let it go". The way the families have always had to play the "long game" is simply awesome and an enormous credit to each and every one of them.
      stuey
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #36: Jul 04, 2014 10:21:56 am
      I can imagine the mutterings in the corridors of power "why don't those awful scouse people just let it go". The way the families have always had to play the "long game" is simply awesome and an enormous credit to each and every one of them.

      Thatcher did all in her power to make the scousers ''just let it go''.
      stuey
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #37: Jul 05, 2014 05:06:47 pm
                                                                                                       
      'Wicked lie' over exit gate
                                  Journalist was told fans had broken through
      A ''wicked lie'' about supporters breaking open an exit gate at Hillsborough was told to a journalist at the disaster, the inquest was told.
      David Walker who was covering the 1989 FA Cup semi-final for the Daily Mail told the inquest it had been ''blindingly obvious'' from his view in the south stand that the central pens in the Leppings Lane end were full of fans who were in distress.
      Sunday Mirror sports editor Mr Walker who helped injured fans from the ground told the court the media had initially been ''misled'' and had been told LFC fans broke an exit gate to gain entry.
      Contrary to that information leaked by the FA supporters on the pitch that day told Mr Walker the gate had been opened by the police to allow more people into Leppings Lane.
       
      read more:
      http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/hillsborough-inquests-media-told-wicked-7369216

      The establishment had the conspiracy forming within half an hour of people dying.
      Obscene conduct.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #38: Jul 05, 2014 08:57:17 pm
                                                                                                       
      'Wicked lie' over exit gate
                                  Journalist was told fans had broken through
      A ''wicked lie'' about supporters breaking open an exit gate at Hillsborough was told to a journalist at the disaster, the inquest was told.
      David Walker who was covering the 1989 FA Cup semi-final for the Daily Mail told the inquest it had been ''blindingly obvious'' from his view in the south stand that the central pens in the Leppings Lane end were full of fans who were in distress.
      Sunday Mirror sports editor Mr Walker who helped injured fans from the ground told the court the media had initially been ''misled'' and had been told LFC fans broke an exit gate to gain entry.
      Contrary to that information leaked by the FA supporters on the pitch that day told Mr Walker the gate had been opened by the police to allow more people into Leppings Lane.
       
      read more:
      http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/hillsborough-inquests-media-told-wicked-7369216

      The establishment had the conspiracy forming within half an hour of people dying.
      Obscene conduct.

      but not really surprising to anyone who was around then. They hated football fans and they hated us more than anyone else.
      RedPuppy
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #39: Jul 08, 2014 04:57:32 pm
      Hillsborough Ch Supt David Duckenfield was a 'bully'
      The newly-appointed match commander in charge of Hillsborough on the day of the disaster was a "bully" looking for "scapegoats", the inquests heard.

      Retired PC William West said former Ch Supt David Duckenfield was "very authoritarian and aggressive" during a briefing a week before the match.

      Mr Duckenfield was "not a pleasant man" and told officers how it was "going to be his way", Mr West said.

      Officers were told the division was a "disgrace" and "had been badly run".

      'Useless, no good'
      Mr West said anyone who "refused to comply" would be gotten "rid of one way or another".

      Recalling the briefing, which did not mention football, he said: "It was a very one-way conversation by Mr Duckenfield.

      "He basically told us how we were useless, we were no good, we were doing it all wrong, it was going to be his way."

      "He was not a pleasant man," he added.

      Mr West, who was about to move to another district at the time, told the inquest jury in Warrington he "did not want to work under him".

      Ninety-six fans died as a result of the crush at the 1989 FA Cup semi-final on 15 April.

      Mr Duckenfield was appointed on 27 March 1989 after an "appalling incident" following a police "prank", his barrister John Beggs QC said.

      Mr Beggs said it "may be important for a senior officer to emphasise that he expected very important legislation to be complied with".

      He asked if Mr Duckenfield was from the "disciplinarian wing of senior officers", to which Mr West replied: "It appeared that way, yes."

      The inquest jury was told Mr West did not have any direct experience with the then match commander but it was how he felt at the time.

      Kirsten Heaven, who represents some of the Hillsborough families, asked Mr West if he thought Mr Duckenfield was a "bully".

      Mr West replied: "If he was given the opportunity to be, I believe he would be a bully and looking for scapegoats."

      When asked by Police Federation barrister Paul Greaney if from that briefing Mr Duckenfield expected his instructions to be followed without question, Mr West said: "Yes I did."

      Mr Greaney added: "And that if they were not, there would be consequences?"

      "Yes, that's correct," Mr West said.

      The hearing continues.
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-28210023

      stuey
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #40: Jul 09, 2014 06:33:07 pm
      Hillsborough Ch Supt David Duckenfield was a 'bully'
      The newly-appointed match commander in charge of Hillsborough on the day of the disaster was a "bully" looking for "scapegoats", the inquests heard.

      Retired PC William West said former Ch Supt David Duckenfield was "very authoritarian and aggressive" during a briefing a week before the match.

      Mr Duckenfield was "not a pleasant man" and told officers how it was "going to be his way", Mr West said.

      Officers were told the division was a "disgrace" and "had been badly run".

      'Useless, no good'
      Mr West said anyone who "refused to comply" would be gotten "rid of one way or another".

      Recalling the briefing, which did not mention football, he said: "It was a very one-way conversation by Mr Duckenfield.

      "He basically told us how we were useless, we were no good, we were doing it all wrong, it was going to be his way."

      "He was not a pleasant man," he added.

      Mr West, who was about to move to another district at the time, told the inquest jury in Warrington he "did not want to work under him".

      Ninety-six fans died as a result of the crush at the 1989 FA Cup semi-final on 15 April.

      Mr Duckenfield was appointed on 27 March 1989 after an "appalling incident" following a police "prank", his barrister John Beggs QC said.

      Mr Beggs said it "may be important for a senior officer to emphasise that he expected very important legislation to be complied with".

      He asked if Mr Duckenfield was from the "disciplinarian wing of senior officers", to which Mr West replied: "It appeared that way, yes."

      The inquest jury was told Mr West did not have any direct experience with the then match commander but it was how he felt at the time.

      Kirsten Heaven, who represents some of the Hillsborough families, asked Mr West if he thought Mr Duckenfield was a "bully".

      Mr West replied: "If he was given the opportunity to be, I believe he would be a bully and looking for scapegoats."

      When asked by Police Federation barrister Paul Greaney if from that briefing Mr Duckenfield expected his instructions to be followed without question, Mr West said: "Yes I did."

      Mr Greaney added: "And that if they were not, there would be consequences?"

      "Yes, that's correct," Mr West said.

      The hearing continues.
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-28210023



      ''Mr Duckenfield was not a pleasant man''.
      Understatement of all time.
      RedPuppy
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #41: Jul 09, 2014 07:15:16 pm
      ''Mr Duckenfield was not a pleasant man''
      Understatement of all time.

      You got that right.
      therealjr
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #42: Jul 09, 2014 11:24:30 pm
                                                                                                       
      'Wicked lie' over exit gate
                                  Journalist was told fans had broken through
      A ''wicked lie'' about supporters breaking open an exit gate at Hillsborough was told to a journalist at the disaster, the inquest was told.
      David Walker who was covering the 1989 FA Cup semi-final for the Daily Mail told the inquest it had been ''blindingly obvious'' from his view in the south stand that the central pens in the Leppings Lane end were full of fans who were in distress.
      Sunday Mirror sports editor Mr Walker who helped injured fans from the ground told the court the media had initially been ''misled'' and had been told LFC fans broke an exit gate to gain entry.
      Contrary to that information leaked by the FA supporters on the pitch that day told Mr Walker the gate had been opened by the police to allow more people into Leppings Lane.
       
      read more:
      http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/hillsborough-inquests-media-told-wicked-7369216

      The establishment had the conspiracy forming within half an hour of people dying.
      Obscene conduct.

      That lie was Duckinfield's and his alone. The problem was that others including Irvine Patnick and Graham Kelly heard it and chose to believe it.
      stuey
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #43: Jul 10, 2014 06:36:57 am
      That lie was Duckinfield's and his alone. The problem was that others including Irvine Patnick and Graham Kelly heard it and chose to believe it.

      Duckenfield was taking orders, the witch was given a guided tour of Hillsborough for the benefit of the cameras of course, before she and her lieutenants laid the foundations of the greatest conspiracy seen in modern times.
      The f**king witch was giving the orders. 
      Semple
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #44: Jul 11, 2014 12:33:37 pm
      Must admit, I have not been able to pay much attention to the inquests due to time. However, I trust from what is being said on here that the case will end positively. I will never forget the speech from Andy Burnham and the shout of 'Justice' from the supporter in the crowd. It was the first memorial I can remember watching and it sent shivers down my spine. It made me realise exactly what this meant to the people of Merseyside. The look on Burnham's face, who I have a lot of respect for, was telling. He knew then that something had to change. Even typing this now is making the hairs on my arms stand.
      RedPuppy
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #45: Jul 11, 2014 06:26:03 pm
      Hillsborough police told fans 'were fighting on the pitch'
      Police heading to Hillsborough during the disaster thought they were going to stop crowd trouble, the inquests into the deaths of 96 fans have heard.

      Sgt Richard Barnes said officers were told fans were fighting on the pitch.

      He agreed that officers en route were not looking forward to facing trouble and were told to "wipe the smiles off your faces because people are dying".

      A fan in a pen near where the disaster happened also told the court it was so full, he could not lift his hands.

      Ninety-six fans died as a result of the crush in the stadium's Leppings Lane end at the FA Cup semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest on 15 April 1989.

      Sgt Barnes, who had been a PC on patrol in Rotherham when the disaster happened, told the Warrington hearing he was radioed to respond to a "critical incident".

      'Struggling to breathe'
      Barrister Stephen Simblet, representing several of the victims' families, asked Sgt Barnes if "adrenaline [was] pumping, because you were going to deal with a public order situation at Hillsborough".

      Eight of the Hillsborough victims, CW from top left: Paul Clark, Stephen Copoc, Tracey Cox, Jon-Paul Gilhooley, Steven Fox, Vincent Fitzsimmons, Christopher Edwards

      Sgt Barnes said that as he and his colleagues travelled in a van towards the stadium, "it was fight or flight".

      However, he said the officers "certainly [were] not looking forward to confrontation, but obviously the reason we attended was totally different to what we were informed".

      He said he did not make it to the ground, instead being told to patrol in Sheffield city centre, but had been on duty during the previous year's FA Cup semi-final, which the jury has previously been told also saw a crush occur in the Leppings Lane end.

      He said at that tie, he had been at the tunnel which led on to the terrace pens and had heard an officer say space in them was "very tight [and] something about struggling to breathe".

      At that point, he said his sergeant had ordered them to stop people going into the pens and direct fans to other entrances.

      'So crushed'
      The court also heard from Geoffrey Bridson, a Liverpool fan who attended the 1988 and 1989 semi-finals and went onto the Leppings Lane terrace at both games.

      He said that in 1988, the pen he was stood in "was getting very congested by the time we got to kick off".

      However, he said that because he was "used to being in large crowds, it certainly was not frightening - very uncomfortable, but not frightening".

      He said that just before 15:00 BST "the density in 1989 was similar to 1988, but at some point, it got substantially worse".

      "I couldn't get my arms above my head at one point. We were so crushed leading up to the teams coming out at five to three."

      Liverpool fan Andrew Watson also gave testimony and said he had attended the semi-final and a league match between Liverpool and Sheffield Wednesday the previous January.

      He said that at the earlier game, police had blocked off the tunnel entrance to the central Leppings Lane pens because they were full.

      He said that standing on the "extremely congested" terrace in April, he had expected the same thing to happen.

      "I remember saying to my friends 'they will probably shut the gates at the mouth of the tunnel'," he said.

      The hearing continues.
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-28265459
      stuey
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #46: Jul 12, 2014 10:55:47 am
       
      Police 'told of Hillsborough fights'
      Police on their way to Hillsborough thought they were going to stop crowd trouble, the inquest has heard.
      Sgt. Richard Barnes said his colleagues were told fans were ''fighting on the pitch.''

      He agreed officers en route were not looking forward to facing trouble and were told to ''wipe the smiles off your faces because people are dying.''
      A fan in a pen near to where the disaster happened also told the court ''it was so full you could not raise your hands.''



      http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/police-called-reports-supporters-fighting-7411379
      RedPuppy
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #47: Jul 15, 2014 05:46:08 pm
      'Ticketless fans let into Hillsborough' in years before disaster
      A Hillsborough turnstile operator who worked at 1980s FA Cup ties took money to let ticketless fans into the stadium in the years before the disaster, the inquests heard.

      Dr James Gauntlett, who worked at the club from 1979 to 1985, said at his turnstile 10% of fans did not have a ticket or were at the wrong end.

      He said other stewards also allowed fans in while he worked there.

      By 1985 the club had tightened up procedures, the inquests heard.

      In April 1989, 96 Liverpool fans were fatally crushed at the FA Cup semi-final held at the stadium.

      During his six years with the club, Dr Gauntlett said he worked during FA Cup semi-finals at Hillsborough in 1980 and 1981.

      He said in 1981 he was told to allow fans "without a valid ticket" into the stadium to avoid a crush at the turnstiles.

      'Extremely dirty look'
      Dr Gauntlett told the Warrington court that the "lessons to be learned" from 1980 and 1981 had motivated him to write to the Taylor Inquiry, which investigated the causes of the disaster.

      He said at league games fans could buy tickets on the door. At those matches, there was an expectation the cash he had taken, along with the ticket stubs, would tally with the number of fans passing through the turnstiles.

      He said a supervisor, Basil Jones, would give turnstile operators an "extremely dirty look" if their cash and count did not match and could eventually be dismissed.

      But as FA Cup semi-final games were sell-outs, no tickets were sold on the door so they only collected ticket stubs.

      Dr Gauntlett said: "We were explicitly told in 1981 by Basil Jones that our job was to get people through the turnstiles to avoid any crush in the turnstiles and if somebody arrived at the turnstiles without a valid ticket, you should allow them in."

      He said that police would check tickets outside and his job was to "get them in to the ground as quickly as possible".

      At each semi-final, he estimated 20 people went through his turnstile without tickets and "probably 60 or 70" went through with a ticket for a different section of the stadium.

      Following a question by Jonathan Hough QC, junior counsel to the inquests, Dr Gauntlett said he took £70 in cash on top of his £10 shift payment in 1980. In 1981, he made "over £100".

      Andrew Waters, representing Sheffield Wednesday, said taking money from ticketless fans was "stealing from the club".

      Dr Gauntlett replied: "Nobody had a claim on that money. The club did not want the money. The club just wanted the ticket stubs."

      'Capacity exceeded'
      Mark George QC, who represents some of the Hillsborough families, asked Dr Gauntlett about what effect taking money from ticketless fans would have on the numbers inside the ground.

      He asked: "The net result of that would be that the capacity of the Leppings Lane would almost inevitably be exceeded if everyone turned up."

      Dr Gauntlett replied: "Yes."

      Mr George continued: "And it follows from what you have said that this would have been completely obvious both to the club and to the police?"

      "Yes, it should have been," Dr Gauntlett replied.

      The inquests continue.
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-28312907

      No wonder they did not want a proper inquest.
      stuey
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #48: Jul 17, 2014 08:01:09 pm
      stuey
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      Re: Inquest updates
      Reply #49: Jul 18, 2014 07:20:07 pm

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