Is our defence REALLY weak or do the attacking tactics leave them exposed...?

I think Johnson has always been a massive liability it's just he used to have Dirk Kuyt covering him out wide when he didn't run his lazy ass back.

The Dirk point is a decent one as he worked his arse off on that side but we play a different way now and Glen has to cover the right side basically by himself at times especially when hendo has been out.

The Dirk point is a decent one as he worked his arse off on that side but we play a different way now and Glen has to cover the right side basically by himself at times especially when hendo has been out.

I think that is a good point mate. It has been noticeable that when we play in a diamond with Henderson further out wide Johnson hasn't seemed the same liability as he has when we have played a "three" in midfield when Henderson has had to do more of his work centrally.

The one man we've missed the last few games is Henderson, he has been outstanding for me this Season. Breaking up attacks is his forte and we've missed that, especially against Palace.

I think where he breaks up attacks is the key thing.
He presses so well and so aggressively, that he breaks up attacks a lot further up the field.

It's interesting how many different opinions there are regarding why we've conceded so many goals this season but if you think back to Brendans own words it's not really surprising.

He stated that to qualify for CL we needed to score more goals so his focus last summer was to work out a way to achieve that.  He tried desperately to add some more attacking players, didn't get them but achieved it anyway.  He changed his training and tactics to make sure we got the best out of our attacking force and that's exactly what's happened.

I believe there is a "method" that coaches/managers go through when taking over a club/team which usually starts with sorting out the defense, make it as watertight as possible then start adding to the attack.  Brendan's done it the other way round.

We failed to buy the attacking options last summer but bought 4 new defensive players instead, Migs, Toure, Sakho and Ilori, he also added Aly on loan.  You could say they haven't strengthened the squad as only Migs has been an ever present, Flanno has emerged from nowhere and Ilori has been sent out on loan.  Whether they are good enough, once the other pieces of the jigsaw are in place, nobody knows but I think we need to stop looking back at how we used to defend, or the players we used to have in defense because we're evolving away from that way of playing.

To keep saying we need a Steve Clarke type defensive coach or a Masch type destroyer to sort out the defense is silly because Brendan doesn't want that style of play.  We only play a deep defensive line because we don't have the players yet to play a high defensive line but that's the way we'll be going, maybe not next season but we will eventually. 

To reiterate, qualifying for the Champions League was our priority target this season, Brendan believed to do that we needed to add more goals, not have a better defense.  We have achieved both. 

Maybe if Brendans priority target was winning the Title this season we would have seen a better defensive performance but then we wouldn't have witnessed the free flowing all out attack we've all enjoyed and might not even have finished top 4.

Despite the amazing season we've had, we're still a work in progress so rather than being disappointed that we've conceded too many goals let's just revel in the fact that we're not far off and that Brendan knows what needs to be done next 

I think we badly missed Henderson and his energy was sorely missed against Chelsea and Crystal Palace.
I'd have liked to have seen Agger feature and maybe go three at the back against Chelsea.
Maybe being a home game prevented that, but I think defensively we are far better with Agger in the back line.

Watching the three games with Lucas and Gerrard in the team together reminded me of our early season form.
Storm off into a lead, run out of legs, get over run in midfield.
Feels like in the City game we won the battle but lost the war.

I also think our system is heavily dependant on the quality of the full backs.
I think we need at least two in the summer.

there or thereabouts all season ran out of steam in the last few games (squad too small).But a fantastic exciting season that gives a lot of hope for next season.
For me the angst of the ownership turmoil the  Kenny sacking have finally been put to bed.

It's not that our defence is to week but I just cant blame anything else than inexperience. When I think about it the title would be ours If we just played  with that amount of risk  away at City and Chelsea. Even without those two games we could have played with less risk at home vs Chelsea. We could have easily gotten a point and play the remaining two games like it's the last days of our lives. But can't bother about could have, would have, if this and if that. It's our attacking style what got us this far so credit to Boss and the lads. Next season CL and we'll get some good players in with the lads that played this will be more matured and better. So lets just go all guns blasing next season again and it will be ours deservedly. We'll be more experienced.

YNWA

leaving one defender back at a corner when you're 3-1 up was naive, the defence needs to be improved but we need to defend better as a team, poor Lucas looked fu**ed after an hour and the mobility towards the end was non existant.

Inability to keep some energy in reserve for the last 20 mins is a factor. Thats' inexperience and naivety

Inability to keep some energy in reserve for the last 20 mins is a factor. Thats' inexperience and naivety

This is also a reflection of the lack of impact our subs make. We need better quality.

  :gt-happyup:To be fair to BR he admitted in the press conference on friday that from last season to this the attacking play needed looking at, so to go from scoring 65-70 odd to nearly 100 fair play to him and this summer he will look at the defence, onwards and upwards ynwa

I think where he breaks up attacks is the key thing.
He presses so well and so aggressively, that he breaks up attacks a lot further up the field.

Exactly what i said after the Chelsea game mate. His presence when Chelsea were counter attacking would have been the key to breaking them down when they opened up.

The defence lacks the leadership Carragher use to have. Someone to organise them and keep them focussed on the game.

At times, you need someone to shout at the others and get them to provide cover when required. That Carragher eye.

A) we need more of a leader in defence who will organise
B) we need a outright DM with a good engine who will sit deep and protect the back 4 wen we are looking to close out games or against big teams
C) we need full backs who have the work rate to be able to get up and down the pitch much quicker

A) we need more of a leader in defence who will organise
B) we need a outright DM with a good engine who will sit deep and protect the back 4 wen we are looking to close out games or against big teams
C) we need full backs who have the work rate to be able to get up and down the pitch much quicker

Brendan doesn't play with a DM. 

Why do you think he's moved Stevie there or why he hasn't used Lucas there when he's been available? 

I agree with you though, we need better fullbacks.

Got a feeling Sakho will become the leader we need at the back.

Exactly what i said after the Chelsea game mate. His presence when Chelsea were counter attacking would have been the key to breaking them down when they opened up.

Are you talking about Henderson here?

I had a horrible feeling when Henderson got sent off against City that we had won the battle and lost the war.
It was a great result, but the resulting 3 game ban for Henderson had me worried.
I think we'd have won the league had he not picked up that ban.

I'm not having a got at Henderson either,
I just think that losing his energy in midfield led us to the early season issues we had with Gerrard and Lucas
getting over run at times with fast counter attacking play. Not just them. I think Henderson was vital in covering
our fullbacks and that was something, against Crystal Palace, that saw us exposed.

Are you talking about Henderson here?

I had a horrible feeling when Henderson got sent off against City that we had won the battle and lost the war.
It was a great result, but the resulting 3 game ban for Henderson had me worried.
I think we'd have won the league had he not picked up that ban.

I'm not having a got at Henderson either,
I just think that losing his energy in midfield led us to the early season issues we had with Gerrard and Lucas
getting over run at times with fast counter attacking play. Not just them. I think Henderson was vital in covering
our fullbacks and that was something, against Crystal Palace, that saw us exposed.

Is right mate. Once Henderson got sent off i felt exactly the same. No offence to Allen or Lucas but they just don't have what Henderson has. Since Henderson was banned we've seen them try and fail. If Henderson had been on the field against Chelsea and Palace we would have won those games. It's all by the by now, so near yet so far.

Nah, we are weak, however you look at it. Also, take into account many teams left their left and right backs close to their goalie, for the sheer terror our forward line inspired. And we still conceeded a lot against those teams too.

The defence lacks leadership. This article has it spot on for me. The problem is not as easy to solve as it sounds though. Leaders like Carra or Terry or Ferdinand are once in a generation players for teams.

Our problems at the back stem from a combination of things that include our attacking play, lack of organisation and vocal leadership at the back from both Mignolet and our center back pairing and also the discipline of our full backs.

I think the key lies in our full backs. We need two top quality full backs who are just as good defending as they are at attacking.

We need two Jordan Henderson's of the full back world.

I would agree with this and add to it.

Skrtl scored 4 own goals and Toure got one as well. Not because they're hapless but because the opposition have managed to get in behind the full backs and whip dangerous balls into the box (ok maybe 1 or 2 ogs were hapless but the point still stands). Flanno has been a revelation but he can still be defensively naiive at times (he's young so all is forgiven). Enrique is a better defender. Johnson is great going forward but not great defending (I was excited about Kelly tbh).

However, we have missed an organizer and a leader in the callibre of Carra and Hyppia. We have conceded far too many goals where a striker has ghosted in unmarked or had too much space (note Palace's last two goals).

we also need to address the issue of a defensive midfielder. Someone with power and pace. We have been having to accomodate Stevie in his new deeper lying role (and he has been fantastic), but it leaves our defence exposed. Lucas isn't the answer and Hendo doesn't have strength or leadership (allbeit he has the energy).

Some decent analysis here

http://thinkfootball.co.uk/archives/15501

we also need to address the issue of a defensive midfielder. Someone with power and pace. We have been having to accomodate Stevie in his new deeper lying role (and he has been fantastic), but it leaves our defence exposed. Lucas isn't the answer and Hendo doesn't have strength or leadership (allbeit he has the energy).

I don't think we have been 'accomodating' Stevie as Brendan has said it is a role he has earmarked for the captain and has said he is the best in Europe there.