Can we avoid doing a Tottenham?

With respect, CR, you are increasingly coming across with a "my way or the highway" attitude in this thread. Anyone that doesn't agree with you "clearly doesn't get it". That's not the way to have a constructive debate. Many of the replies put counter points to your argument that you may not have considered and you are ignoring them rather than presenting thoughts of your own in response. If you want to have a debate, fine but allow others to have an opposing view. Otherwise it's not a debate.

Now I think part of your problem is that you undervalue English players and over value foreign players. Whilst I agree that on the whole, English players are not as technically talented as their foreign counter parts, some are. You also fail to take in to account that with loosing Luis next season, Brendan may be looking to adapt our system to accommodate that and is looking for players who fit in to that system. Someone like Lallana may not have fit in that system last year but perhaps he will this coming season. People have said they want to see Brendan backed in the purchase of players he deems suitable not because they're blindly going along with the status quo but because the alternative is we operate with a Director of Football and BR becomes coach and that hasn't exactly worked at other clubs such as Spurs or Newcastle, nor would BR be accepting of that situation.

You should also show a modicum of patience because the window just opened and we've been trying to sign Sanchez since the season closed, albeit without success and you seem perfectly happy to have him in the side. So who knows whether over the next two months we'll sign some superstar player? Your concerns will have some merit if come September, all we've done is spend the Summer buying squad players rather than immediate starters. We haven't had the money in the past, nor Champion's League football, now we have both. Let's see what he does with it before passing judgement.

I almost didn't click on this thread but eventually did.

Stopped reading after this.

I really don't get why people think it's more important that we sign the players they want than the one's the manager wants.

Also is it still really too difficult to understand that FSG will only pay what they think a player is worth to us and therefore they don't see it as 'overpaying'?

I read the whole first paragraph as "I know better than the manager".

With respect, CR, you are increasingly coming across with a "my way or the highway" attitude in this thread.

With respect 5timesacharm, CR has clearly been rounded upon  since the inception of this second page with debate that wasn't as constructive  as it was and it has started to take a turn for the worse. CR hasn't stated Brendan is a liar, or is in bed with the Yanks and is as culpable as Ayre and co when our signings aren't made, or that he is a mere yes man, or any of the utter tripe we've had to endure about him in the past. This rabble-rousing, when things weren't going to plan on the pitch incidentally, pretty much stopped as the results picked up and the hypocrisy and simpletons decided to keep sch-tum their petty agitating about Rodgers' credentials, both professionally and personally.

What CR is putting across 5timesacharm is us possibly "doing a Spurs" which has evolved into him not agreeing with all of Rodgers' signings and valuations of some signings. I, myself have aired no personal opinion on the value of players and signings in this thread but have watched as others who don't like the idea of another opinion re value & signings not being congruent with Rodgers' exact outlook on the same players come in and pretty much start the demise of what was a decent thread. I think even a simpleton can see there is a difference between lambasting a manager as opposed to having a different outlook to the manager on a players' potential and value without being an utter fuckwit about it. (Not you BTW) 

I read the whole first paragraph as "I know better than the manager".

Or maybe just "I have a different opinion than the manager on occasion."

I am sure most people disagree with Brendan sometimes, and sometimes perhaps unsurprisingly we are right to disagree. We have a much more blinkered view, we don't see the complications, our knowledge is not so great and so solutions are (or seem)much simpler for us. Disagree with 3 or four transfers and the odds are you will be proved right and Brendan wrong on at least one occasion, as not every transfer a manager makes will be a success.

The very fact that sometimes we are right and the "experts" are wrong is what make football so interesting. If the best team always won, the dearest players were always the best and managers never got things wrong, football forums would be a very boring place to be. Similarly if we all just agreed with everything the manager did because he is a professional and knows better (which obviously he does) the forum would be dead.

First post "I think Brendan is right", followed by 253 posts simply agreeing wouldn't make for scintillating reading.

Obviously our opinions prove wrong much more than Brendan's, but sometimes we get it right too and that makes it all worthwhile.... at least for a minute or two.

For me football is all about opinions with few indisputably "right or wrong" answers but a myriad of choices. 

   

Good for you. Another one who has missed the point. If say Brendan wanted Lallana for £30m, would you want him to go ahead with the transfer? It's a good example of what I am talking about.i wouldn't want him to sign player at whatever price simply because I wouldn't want to see him spend ridiculous amounts on someone who is deemed average. I've got no problem with him signing Lallana, just not at whatever price. We saw that with Downing and Carroll (and here come the excuses...)

Moving on, have been browsing forums of opposing clubs. The general thought seems to be that we are buying in quantity and not quality. Even with the players rumoured, we are perceived as a club who is increasing their squad depth but not the strength of the first XI. I suppose that is accurate somewhat. Sanchez would have been our ready made star signing, but seems he is going to le arse.

We tried for Sanchez as did other clubs so how can you blame the club if he didn't want to come to us. One option could have been to make an insane offer which Barca and the player would not have been able to refuse but then it goes against your philosophy of buying at any price. Also, how can you gauge the quality of our signings by looking at other fans' views, they are anyways going to write off our signings. All the signings we have made till now are independent of the Suarez sale, now starting with Markovic we have set out on replacing him and I guess we just have to be a little patient before the replacement plan is ready. Shaqiri, Greizmann, Munian along with Markovic can easily soften the blow. 

Or maybe just "I have a different opinion than the manager on occasion."

I am sure most people disagree with Brendan sometimes, and sometimes perhaps unsurprisingly we are right to disagree. We have a much more blinkered view, we don't see the complications, our knowledge is not so great and so solutions are (or seem)much simpler for us. Disagree with 3 or four transfers and the odds are you will be proved right and Brendan wrong on at least one occasion, as not every transfer a manager makes will be a success.

The very fact that sometimes we are right and the "experts" are wrong is what make football so interesting. If the best team always won, the dearest players were always the best and managers never got things wrong, football forums would be a very boring place to be. Similarly if we all just agreed with everything the manager did because he is a professional and knows better (which obviously he does) the forum would be dead.

First post "I think Brendan is right", followed by 253 posts simply agreeing wouldn't make for scintillating reading.

Obviously our opinions prove wrong much more than Brendan's, but sometimes we get it right too and that makes it all worthwhile.... at least for a minute or two.

For me football is all about opinions with few indisputably "right or wrong" answers but a myriad of choices. 

 

It was perhaps wrong of me to read the first paragraph in the context of CR's other posts on this forum, but that's what I did, and all I see is a litany of complaints about signings or potential signings, and posts about who we could or should sign instead.
In that light, the opening post jumped out at me as I previously posted.

I'm reading Soccernomics at the moment, and the one thing that is clear is that the transfer market is incredibly inefficient given the amounts spent.
I was under the impression that FSG and by default BR are finding ways to challenge the way things have always been done, and that's a major reason why I don't comment on price or alternatives to what BR wants.
Another reason is that I am loathe to make decisions or judgement calls when I don't have all the information that others have, "others" being BR and his team responsible for bringing players in.

It seems reasonable to me, given the above, to wait and see how it pans out.

With respect 5timesacharm, CR has clearly been rounded upon  since the inception of this second page with debate that wasn't as constructive  as it was and it has started to take a turn for the worse. CR hasn't stated Brendan is a liar, or is in bed with the Yanks and is as culpable as Ayre and co when our signings aren't made, or that he is a mere yes man, or any of the utter tripe we've had to endure about him in the past. This rabble-rousing, when things weren't going to plan on the pitch incidentally, pretty much stopped as the results picked up and the hypocrisy and simpletons decided to keep sch-tum their petty agitating about Rodgers' credentials, both professionally and personally.

What CR is putting across 5timesacharm is us possibly "doing a Spurs" which has evolved into him not agreeing with all of Rodgers' signings and valuations of some signings. I, myself have aired no personal opinion on the value of players and signings in this thread but have watched as others who don't like the idea of another opinion re value & signings not being congruent with Rodgers' exact outlook on the same players come in and pretty much start the demise of what was a decent thread. I think even a simpleton can see there is a difference between lambasting a manager as opposed to having a different outlook to the manager on a players' potential and value without being an utter fuckwit about it. (Not you BTW) 

I know what he's on about and there are certain elements of his argument that I agree with which is why I've responded with thoughts of my own. My opening paragraph is because some people have put opposing opinions across and he's shouted them down by saying they're missing his point. How is he acting any differently than those claiming he arrogantly knows more than the manager? Two wrongs don't make a right, do they?

We were never going to buy just 3 players for £35mil each Brendan needs bodies in his already small squad and so far I think everything is going to plan .The unknown is the Luis factor and how Barca will finance the deal. Still plenty of time to get another "star" in to replace Luis if indeed he does go.

We were never going to buy just 3 players for £35mil each Brendan needs bodies in his already small squad and so far I think everything is going to plan .The unknown is the Luis factor and how Barca will finance the deal. Still plenty of time to get another "star" in to replace Luis if indeed he does go.

Lets put that one to bed.  As it stands, only Chelsea, Mancester United and Tottenham Hotspur have larger first team squads.

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/startseite/wettbewerb/GB1

Lets put that one to bed.  As it stands, only Chelsea, Mancester United and Tottenham Hotspur have larger first team squads.

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/startseite/wettbewerb/GB1

It is a slightly misleading statement when people refer to our "small squad" mate.  We obviously have the numbers it was the quality we were lacking and that looks like it's being addressed this window.

We were relying on a core of 13/14 players last season whereas we need at least 17/18 for this season.  We had little on the bench to shore up the defense when we had a slight lead and nobody to come on to get a breakthrough goal when up against stubborn defenses.  We also suffered when any of our regular starters were injured or needed resting.

It's the terminology which is wrong, rather than the statement 

It is a slightly misleading statement when people refer to our "small squad" mate.  We obviously have the numbers it was the quality we were lacking and that looks like it's being addressed this window.

We were relying on a core of 13/14 players last season whereas we need at least 17/18 for this season.  We had little on the bench to shore up the defense when we had a slight lead and nobody to come on to get a breakthrough goal when up against stubborn defenses.  We also suffered when any of our regular starters were injured or needed resting.

It's the terminology which is wrong, rather than the statement 

And it could be said that we've added  3-4 and are looking likely to add 2-3 more, with only 2-3 leaving that are part of the 13-14 you mentioned,  thus hitting that 17-18 bracket in your post.

And it could be said that we've added  3-4 and are looking likely to add 2-3 more, with only 2-3 leaving that are part of the 13-14 you mentioned,  thus hitting that 17-18 bracket in your post.

Agreed mate, as I said "it seems to be being addressed this window".  Overall we'll have a stronger squad but the numbers will be the same as we can only register 25 players, same as everyone else 

Or maybe just "I have a different opinion than the manager on occasion."

I am sure most people disagree with Brendan sometimes, and sometimes perhaps unsurprisingly we are right to disagree. We have a much more blinkered view, we don't see the complications, our knowledge is not so great and so solutions are (or seem)much simpler for us. Disagree with 3 or four transfers and the odds are you will be proved right and Brendan wrong on at least one occasion, as not every transfer a manager makes will be a success.

The very fact that sometimes we are right and the "experts" are wrong is what make football so interesting. If the best team always won, the dearest players were always the best and managers never got things wrong, football forums would be a very boring place to be. Similarly if we all just agreed with everything the manager did because he is a professional and knows better (which obviously he does) the forum would be dead.

First post "I think Brendan is right", followed by 253 posts simply agreeing wouldn't make for scintillating reading.

Obviously our opinions prove wrong much more than Brendan's, but sometimes we get it right too and that makes it all worthwhile.... at least for a minute or two.

For me football is all about opinions with few indisputably "right or wrong" answers but a myriad of choices. 

   

Classy post S@int, I wish more on here would post so tolerantly.

Spurs actually bought good players. The problem is they didn't have a good enough tactical setup, so what their business amounted to last season was buying players who simply didn't fit. Like Soldado. He's a good striker, but Spurs' tactics didn't get the best out of him like when he was at Valencia. Lamela is another good player, but it looks as if he struggled to adapt to England plus had injuries.

So for us, it's not even so much about a big name quality as it is good players who actually fit Brendan's setup. Because Brendan's been in the job longer than AVB was (and without Levy over his shoulder), I think we'll be better off trying to replace Suarez then they were Bale.

This is purely MY opinion on what Spurs did last summer, as obviously they are a professional football club and their dealings would not follow what I am about to say... but anyway...

I got the impression that Spurs last season, panicked in the wake of the Gareth Bale sale, and to try and keep the the fans happy, conducted several pieces of business to "improve" their squad as a result.

Paulinho (25y/o) - £17m
Chadli (23 going on 24y/o) - £7m
Soldado (28y/o) - £25.8m
Capoue (25 y/o) - £8.6m
Eriksen (21y/o) - £11m
Lamela (21y/o) - £25.8m
Chiriches (23y/o) - £8.5m (All figures taken from http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/tottenham-hotspur-transfers.html)

These dealings struck me as you or I opening up a FM season, setting the filters to:

Age: 21-25
Price: Max £30million.

Then selecting "Remove all unlikely targets" and were left with a pool of players from which they selected several and ended up with the names above (bar Soldado, which would require an adjustment to the filters! )

The point I am (badly) trying to make is, each and every transfer came across as a desperate attempt to fill positions with the impending Bale money. It didn't seem like much scouting had taken place or that anyone at the club had taken due care and consideration in terms of targets. It seemed like the board was buying the players and AVB was more or less left with a "make it work" type attitude.

Spurs didn't have TOO bad a season, considering how many changes to the playing staff there were, that's granted, and now with a season under their belts playing together will be surely looking to push on this season.

Liverpool however, had a great season. Exceeded all expectation in the league, were setting new records etc, and were definitely looking the part playing BR's style of football. The team were cohesive (despite lacking in depth) and each and every player knew what was expected of them.

This season, I cannot wait to see how we will perform. Yes, Suarez looks set to leave, BUT... I have every confidence in Brendan to fill the gap, AND to strengthen us elsewhere. He knows what he wants (whether or not he gets it is another matter), and I firmly believe that if BR is allowed to add to a team which he has built, and has playing the way he wants the team to play, we will only go from strength to strength.

The players we are bringing in really do excite me. There seems to have been careful consideration as to who we want to add to the team (certain attributes are key to the way BR wants to play). I just do not see such a lack of attention to detail with Liverpool as I noticed with Tottenham's reckless spending last season.

Again this is my take on the respective situations and I get that not all will agree, but one thing we all can agree on (I hope!) Is that mutual trust we place in Brendan, the man oozes knowledge, class, ambition but most importantly, PRIDE for Liverpool Football Club and all he has done, and continues to do here.

In Brendan we trust.

Agreed mate, as I said "it seems to be being addressed this window".  Overall we'll have a stronger squad but the numbers will be the same as we can only register 25 players, same as everyone else 

Stronger squad maybe but I still don't think we have a strong enough starting eleven to win the league or progress far in the UCL with. We need to add at a couple more players in my opinion. Still there's time yet. The window only just opened after all.

Stronger squad maybe but I still don't think we have a strong enough starting eleven to win the league or progress far in the UCL with. We need to add at a couple more players in my opinion. Still there's time yet. The window only just opened after all.

Agreed mate there's still plenty of additions to come and plenty of time to do it.

You clearly did, and if you are here to moan about ones post then I think you should kindly f**k off. Either engage in the conversation or do one, sunshine.

I understand though, it's difficult for guys like you who are too scared to have an opinion..

By engage in the conversation I take you mean only if I agree with you then?

By engage in the conversation I take you mean only if I agree with you then?

Ain't it great how so many people love to post their opinions, but then belittle others for having the audacity to disagree with them

Yes we will avoid doing a Spurs. The targets we have been linked with and the players we've already purchased, plus the Biter leaving, all point to a formation change to me. lambert and Sturridge could each play as a lone striker with inside forwards behind, which was BRs original plan when he first came. Of course we are loosing 30+ goals when Suarez goes but the goals should now come from other areas plus with a formation change to 4 3 3  should also give us a better defence.

Big difference with Tottenham is that we already have a good core. Even without Suarez and our new additions we have a good first 11 that's already settled in, with some exciting players like Sturridge, Raheem and Coutinho. As good as Suarez is, our team never needed him to tick, we played fine when he was suspended.

Last summer, Tottenham offloaded Gareth Bale for £85m or thereabouts. Everyone assumed thereafter that Tottenham would be able to strengthen other areas of the team, thus improve overall. The summer signings they made appeared pretty decent to me at the time:Chadli (£7m), Chirchires (£8m), Capoue (£9m), Eriksen (£12m), Paulinho (17m), Soldado (£26m), Lamela (£26m). That is approximately £105m. To me, that looks like a decent bunch of players signed up. So where did it all go wrong for Spurs? And if the reports are anything to go by, then why are we not in danger of repeating their mistake by signing a load of first team players? The pattern is there - sell one of the best players in the world for an astronomical fee, and then spend those funds on a number of different players.

It's a good question and a decent thread.

- I must admit I was very impressed with the ways Spurs handled the Bale transfer last summer, they dragged it out, did all their business first without getting completely ripped off (except for Lamela) and I know that Levy was getting quite a bit of praise even on this forum. I'm not completely sure why it didn't work out for them, I still think they bought some good players ie. Capoue is a decent player who simply didn't perform at Spurs and I think Paulinho will be better next season. The only unequivocal success was Eriksen and I think he was the last one to come in (why the fook we didn't bring him in is still an even bigger head-scratcher than why we bought Alberto!)

- I also think it's important to recognise that Spurs didn't completely drop off the planet, they finished 6th last season and I believe the previous 5 seasons they had finished either 4th or 5th so it isn't like they completely messed it up. But no doubt they were not the same side of the previous season and without Bale's wonder goals (many of them winners) they simply didn't replace that game-breaking quality that he was able to provide.

Is the same thing going to happen to us? Can we be as good as last year or better? Without Luis!? At the moment I don't know if we can be. We've got some players (certainly more than Spurs had) who can still provide that bit of magic and creativity (Sturridge, Sterling, Coutinho) so I don't see us falling away like Spurs BUT perhaps our biggest challenge is to cope with the demands of 4 competitions and i'm guessing what will turn out to be a squad increase of about 25% in order to deal with it. From that perspective (of improving the depth and quality of the squad) the Suarez sale may do us some favours but whether the first 11 can perform as well as last season and repeat another title challenge will be tough going. I do like our chances of finishing top 4 again though. Our transfer dealings so far seem to have been pretty decent but we've still got issues at full-back, centre -half and we need to plug the Luis gap somehow.

Reasons to be optimistic:

- Sterling, Sturridge and Coutinho will all get better
- Lallana is a terrific signing who will walk into our squad and style without missing a beat
- It's year 3 for many of the players in Brendan's system/philosophy.
- We will still score a bunch of goals (let's hope we can concede a few less!)
- We haven't finished buying players yet

We may do a Spurs if:

- Sturridge gets injured for a long period of time
- We don't find a player who can play as a 9, 10 and in wide areas (fuc...kin Sanchez how perfect would he have been ;-(

I would actually like us to improve on those 84 points that we achieved next season. This is a massive summer so far. We have in some respects done a Tottenham - selling a key player and replacing that key player with 4-5 signings. We are still set to sign other players however, including Remy, Origi and Lovren. Possibly Moreno too. That'd take our spending to over £110m.

You cannot replace quality with quantity.