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      Dejan Lovren (Liverpool > Zenit St Petersburg)

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      wellbuilt
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1909: Jul 12, 2018 10:52:04 am
      Thought he was 28?

      Still 29 CB's are entering their prime.

      hahahahaha, fair play mate.

      i 100% disagree with CB's entering their prime at 29+

      however, your opinion is always welcome
      stuey
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1910: Jul 12, 2018 10:58:45 am
      Apparently some of the Croatian players were singing fascist-nationalist songs after one of their earlier WC wins. They have that in their history, and a lot of them still seem quite attached to it. I'd rather have France win it, which I think they will.

      Fascism is unbelievably still an issue in Croatia with a shadowy acceptance of this most grotesque neo-nazi mantra, not the biggest fan of France but on this occasion I hope they hammer them.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1911: Jul 12, 2018 11:10:21 am
      Fascism is unbelievably still an issue in Croatia with a shadowy acceptance of this most grotesque neo-nazi mantra, not the biggest fan of France but on this occasion I hope they hammer them.

      No neo-Nazis in France right?..
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1912: Jul 12, 2018 11:46:10 am
      hahahahaha, fair play mate.

      i 100% disagree with CB's entering their prime at 29+

      however, your opinion is always welcome

      Best CB's in the world today.

      Thiago Silva 33
      Toby Alderweild 29
      Diego Godin 32
      Leonardo Benucci 30
      Matts Hummels 29
      Cesar Azpiliqueta 28
      Gerard Pique 30
      Sergio Ramos 32

      ;)
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1913: Jul 12, 2018 01:19:37 pm
      He's a Liverpool player who is a European and World Cup finalist in the same season. If he was somewhere else, we would be crying why we don't go and sign such players.

      Like most defenders, he has a wobble or two in his closet, and he hasn't been wobbleproof in this tournament. But he's still standing and before you go tearing into him, ask where will Stones be on Sunday? Walker? Vertonghen? Matic? Kompany? Otamendi? 

      Kane was anonymous in the semi final. He missed a sitter from two yards with two attempts to score it. That's England's main man on the biggest stage in world football, missing sitters and free headers when he can least afford it. Meanwhile Dejan has helped see off Argentina Russia and England just to reach the final, some of them after extra time. He had a great game in the semi final. Clearing his lines here, getting blocks there. Even with the last play of the game, when his country needed him, there he was to head the ball away to safety, the stuff that looks nothing special, but still has to be done.

      It's often said you can't play him to challenge for major trophies. Well he is already a European Finalist and could be a World Champion in a few days, and there's not really many bigger trophies around than those. While JĂŒrgen and Croatia consider him essential in the starting line up. So they must obviously see something about him that a lot don't.

      I could name you dozens and dozens of players who have medals who were garbage. He reached the CL final mainly because our attack is phenomenal. He's reached a World Cup final because Croatias midfield is phenomenal. Had Kane buried that chance last night then he would have been the sole reason why his country were out. And that's all it takes. One second were he switched off and his country could have been out of the World Cup. He got away with it big time.

      I've said several times he's had good games for both club and country. A lot more in recent times actually. In Kiev for example the lad was boss, couldn't fault him. He also had two very good games against city in the quarters. But he isn't consistent and he has a mistake in him all the time. He made several last night.

      It's often said (and it's something I agree with), that for defenders most of it is reading the game and that is something I think is a major weakness for Lovren and it separates him from the top cbs.

      I talk about standards and levels a lot on this forum. I know the standards required to win titles and other trophies. It seems like some of you have completely forgotten. I've said it elsewhere in another topic (shaqiri I think), but having a good game every now and then doesn't make you a top player. What makes you a top player is consistency and performing at the highest level week in, week out.

      Mark my words. If we persist with dejan Lovren this season he will cost us a handful of games next season with massive errors and I will be back in this thread reminding you of this conversation.

      And before you start, no I don't want to be proven right. I want us to sign a more consistent centre half and not one who is prone to making big errors. 

      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1914: Jul 12, 2018 01:39:50 pm
      Seems to have refound his confidence at least :D
      stuey
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1915: Jul 12, 2018 02:34:48 pm
      No neo-Nazis in France right?..

      Not as prevalent as in Croatia and certainly not tacitly supported.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1916: Jul 12, 2018 02:40:33 pm
      Quote from HamannsTheMan
      I could name you dozens and dozens of players who have medals who were garbage. He reached the CL final mainly because our attack is phenomenal. He's reached a World Cup final because Croatias midfield is phenomenal. Had Kane buried that chance last night then he would have been the sole reason why his country were out. And that's all it takes. One second were he switched off and his country could have been out of the World Cup. He got away with it big time.

      I've said several times he's had good games for both club and country. A lot more in recent times actually. In Kiev for example the lad was boss, couldn't fault him. He also had two very good games against city in the quarters. But he isn't consistent and he has a mistake in him all the time. He made several last night.

      I talk about standards and levels a lot on this forum. I know the standards required to win titles and other trophies. It seems like some of you have completely forgotten. I've said it elsewhere in another topic (shaqiri I think), but having a good game every now and then doesn't make you a top player. What makes you a top player is consistency and performing at the highest level week in, week out.

      Mark my words. If we persist with dejan Lovren this season he will cost us a handful of games next season with massive errors.

      Croatia have been behind 3 times on the bounce, and had the bottle to come back every time. So he's in the final. England went behind twice in the tournament, and had no answer. Indeed they kept just one clean sheet in the whole tournament, and now they're going home.

      Lovren will make mistakes next season, I won't deny that. So will most defenders at some point. But it's often said that you can't compete for major honours with him around. But this season he has shown that yes you actually can.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1917: Jul 12, 2018 02:48:05 pm
      Dejan Lovren believes that he has established himself as one of the world’s best defenders and deserves to be shown more respect after helping Croatia into the World Cup final. The Liverpool centre back also said his country was now thirsty for “revenge” over France in Sunday’s showpiece as they seek to banish the memory of their semi-final defeat to same nation 20 years ago.

      Lovren continued the excellent form he displayed in the second half of Liverpool’s season by repelling England and crushing their dreams of a first appearance in the final since 1966. He had been irritated on the eve of the game by references to his substitution after 31 minutes of a 4-1 defeat to Tottenham Hotspur back in October, when two errors allowed Harry Kane to open the scoring and create a second. But Lovren underlined his credentials in the Luzhniki Stadium with a dominant display. Kane was well marshalled by Croatia and Lovren took delight in thumbing his nose to the doubters once more.

      “It feels incredible, especially after everything that was said about us before the game,” Lovren said. “We showed our character. We showed that we deserved to be in the final and people should respect us. Not just the English press, I am saying from the beginning. It is just sometimes it is unfair. Like in my case when you are talking about me. I think people should respect me also.

      “I think I have done that [proved himself as one of the best defenders] without being arrogant. Definitely. If you are in the final you are the two best teams in the world. I received a question like, ‘What do you think about the 4-1?’ I really don’t understand these questions, always looking back to where I made some mistakes. I really don’t understand. There is too much about me. But whatever - this is what gets me more motivated to work harder and prove everyone wrong. Everyone.”

      Lovren said Croatia’s mental strength proved the difference against England, Zlatko Dalic’s side summoning reserves of strength as they negotiated a third successive game that eked into extra time, with Mario Mandzukic’s 109th-minute goal decisive in the 2-1 victory.

      France will begin the final as favourites with the prodigious Kylian Mbappé the latest talent Lovren will attempt to suppress as Croatia eye the ultimate prize. But having overcome Argentina and Lionel Messi in the group stage and now England, the 29-year-old harbours few fears.

      “The difference was mental. Mentally,” said Lovren. “Because we knew we could write history and we did it. Now there is only one game left to make it forever. We went through a lot of sh*t again - war, all these things and even now the situation is not the best but it is unbelievable how many talents we have in sports if you look At basketball, at handball, at water polo . . . tennis especially. I would say we have good mothers and fathers. They’re making good love I would say.

      “I think now after 20 years, people will remember us and not just the ‘98 team. This is what I wanted. This is why I am proud. “I was nine. I remember my mum was screaming and crying after the French game. Maybe it’s our time for revenge. It’s going to be a tough game, it will be difficult. MbappĂ© is one of the best wingers/strikers in the world, but we played - I played also - against the biggest players in the world and we managed to keep them out of the goal.

      “MbappĂ© showed his quality in this tournament and his speed is unpredictable. I remember I was looking at MbappĂ© three years ago. He was playing against my brother. They are the same age. It was under 17s or under 16s - Croatia was playing against France. I always believed that France is one of the favourites to win the World Cup. They showed in 2016 and now they’re here. It will be a big challenge, but I believe in this team. I said after the Argentina game I had a good feeling. People were mocking of us, but I felt we could do something.”

      Within the space of two months, Lovren will have played in the Champions League final and the World Cup final and he is anxious to go a step further than Liverpool managed against Real Madrid in Kiev.

      “Beautiful,” he said. “If somebody told me that, from the beginning of the season, I would be in two of the biggest finals in the world, I would have signed straight away. I went through a lot of sh*t I would say. Unfortunately, I didn’t win the Champions League final, but there is still this. It’s different, we have a lot of things to do to win this. I believed more that I could win the Champions League than coming here. In the Champions League, I believed from day one. We have the power and the speed. Here it is different players but we showed we can manage it.

      “This is my country and Liverpool is my club. I love this club. You saw me with tears in my eyes [after the final] and you saw I really care about this. It’s emotions.”

      https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/i-am-one-of-the-best-defenders-in-the-world-claims-dejan-lovren-5nfz0btr7
      CT_LFC
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1918: Jul 12, 2018 02:50:27 pm
      Best CB's in the world today.

      Thiago Silva 33
      Toby Alderweild 29
      Diego Godin 32
      Leonardo Benucci 30
      Matts Hummels 29
      Cesar Azpiliqueta 28
      Gerard Pique 30
      Sergio Ramos 32

      ;)

      You forgot VVD at the top of that list, because i've read on various occasions people say our vast defensive improvement in the last 19 games of last season was purely and only because of VVD and nothing to do with Karius, Arnold, Lovren or Robertson  ;)

      If he can single handedly turn a defense from sh*t show to the best in the league over half a season he must be on that list.
      CT_LFC
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1919: Jul 12, 2018 03:01:19 pm
      Happy for Lovren to reach the WC Finals. He has gotten so much sh*t from the fans and media throughout his Liverpool career, probably peaking after his nightmare against Spurs last season, that this is probably a big  "F**k you, haters" moment for him. However, i don't see how this ends in anything but another heartbreak as i don't see them beating France.

      Klopp speaks very highly of him and glad to see how much Lovren likes being at Liverpool.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1920: Jul 12, 2018 03:05:59 pm
      Croatia have been behind 3 times on the bounce, and had the bottle to come back every time. So he's in the final. England went behind twice in the tournament, and had no answer. Indeed they kept just one clean sheet in the whole tournament, and now they're going home.

      Lovren will make mistakes next season, I won't deny that. So will most defenders at some point. But it's often said that you can't compete for major honours with him around. But this season he has shown that yes you actually can.

      What has Lovren ever won in his career? Remind me.

      Back to levels and standards. He's not that level nor that standard.

      All it takes is a split second to switch off and thats it, the game could be gone.

      Surely you understand that after just witnessing Karius in Kiev? He had a very good cup run too in the champions league, and he had a very good second half to the season in general, but one mistake which WE ALL KNEW he had in him and that's it then. He crumbled and made another mistake and we lost the F***ing game.

      Will you say the same about Karius then? We got to the final of the European cup so does that mean Karius is good enough to be our keeper then? Your logic is daft and incredibly naive.

      Time will prove me right, but seriously, I bet you right now he makes a huge mistake in a game next season that costs us three points or puts us out of a cup somewhere. Mark my words. It won't just be one game either. It will be at least three. Quote me on it.

      Most of the time he has been carried by our attack and Croatias midfield and for that reason you're trying to justify he's some top centre half.

      You should re watch Tottenham away from last season and refresh your memory on what dejan Lovren is capable of.

      He's performed well at times I'm not denying that but it isn't enough. We need a centre half with incredibly high consistency levels and Lovren doesn't.


      lfc across the water
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1921: Jul 12, 2018 05:02:24 pm
      Quote from HamannsTheMan
      What has Lovren ever won in his career? Remind me.

      Back to levels and standards. He's not that level nor that standard.

      All it takes is a split second to switch off and thats it, the game could be gone.

      Surely you understand that after just witnessing Karius in Kiev? He had a very good cup run too in the champions league, and he had a very good second half to the season in general, but one mistake which WE ALL KNEW he had in him and that's it then. He crumbled and made another mistake and we lost the F***ing game.

      Will you say the same about Karius then? We got to the final of the European cup so does that mean Karius is good enough to be our keeper then? Your logic is daft and incredibly naive.

      Time will prove me right, but seriously, I bet you right now he makes a huge mistake in a game next season that costs us three points or puts us out of a cup somewhere. Mark my words. It won't just be one game either. It will be at least three. Quote me on it.

      Most of the time he has been carried by our attack and Croatias midfield and for that reason you're trying to justify he's some top centre half.

      You should re watch Tottenham away from last season and refresh your memory on what dejan Lovren is capable of.

      Having a bet on him to make a mistake is probably a safe bet, but you're again missing the central point about him. So I'll write it out again for you. Well quote it actually.

      Quote from lfc across the water
      It's often said that you can't compete for major honours with him around. But this season he has shown that yes you actually can.

      Karius made at least three great saves in the European Cup Final that nobody remembers, one of them 30 seconds before the last goal. He didn't lose the final on his own, there were several others responsible, some of them senior players who used the Salah sub as a reason to go missing when we needed them to step up another gear. So it's unfair to hold him squarely responsible for the result.

      As regards what Dejan has won, he could be a World Champion at the weekend, I repeat, a World Champion. He's not the greatest defender that has ever passed through these walls, but there is more to what he has achieved this season, than just be carried by his team mates.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1922: Jul 12, 2018 05:24:07 pm
      He was awful tonight, especially first half. Literally all over the place.

      Wish him all the luck in the world but F**k me I don't half worry about the thought of him being first choice for us.

      Recovered and was F***ing superb for Croatia for the rest of the game. The way he dealt with Kane was spot on too, also seems to have a disliking for Dele Alli!!
      Kopite78
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1923: Jul 12, 2018 08:13:44 pm
      Come on Degsy

      Hope you win it lad
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1924: Jul 12, 2018 08:14:52 pm
      Having a bet on him to make a mistake is probably a safe bet, but you're again missing the central point about him. So I'll write it out again for you. Well quote it actually.

      Karius made at least three great saves in the European Cup Final that nobody remembers, one of them 30 seconds before the last goal. He didn't lose the final on his own, there were several others responsible, some of them senior players who used the Salah sub as a reason to go missing when we needed them to step up another gear. So it's unfair to hold him squarely responsible for the result.

      As regards what Dejan has won, he could be a World Champion at the weekend, I repeat, a World Champion. He's not the greatest defender that has ever passed through these walls, but there is more to what he has achieved this season, than just be carried by his team mates.

      I agree with you and I said in the post match thread several senior players got away with murder in Kiev because of karius's blunders, one being my best mate and our very own captain, Jordan Henderson.

      But you said we can compete and challenge for honours no problem with players like Lovren in the team, because afterall, we got to Kiev.

      We got to Kiev with Karius in goal so I'm asking does your logic apply to him too?

      My argument is yes Lovren has good games sometimes. So does bloody Karius. But to reach the heights we all desire they have to be incredibly consistent all through the season and neither of them are.

      The way Karius crumbled in Kiev we all knew he had that in him. We all knew he was capable of a disaster like that and unfortunately for us, it happened in the biggest club game possible and our biggest match for a decade.

      Now you can argue and disagree with me all you want. You're entitled to you opinion that's fine. But I'm telling you the same applies to Lovren and I'm telling you right now he will cost us points next season.

      He isn't consistent enough to be in a title winning side. Just like Karius isn't. Just like Jordan Henderson isn't.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1925: Jul 12, 2018 08:17:05 pm
      Recovered and was f**king superb for Croatia for the rest of the game. The way he dealt with Kane was spot on too, also seems to have a disliking for Dele Alli!!

      He grew into the game I agree but that mistake could have (and bloody should have) proved costly and had Kane bagged then the game is over, it's done, and Croatia are going home.  If Kane had bagged then that mistake by Lovren would have been highlighted everywhere.

      It wasn't just that one mistake either. There were plenty, especially in the first half. His poor positioning and his diving into tackles without winning the ball had me cringing at times.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1926: Jul 12, 2018 08:54:30 pm
      Quote from HamannsTheMan
      I agree with you and I said in the post match thread several senior players got away with murder in Kiev because of karius's blunders, one being my best mate and our very own captain, Jordan Henderson.

      But you said we can compete and challenge for honours no problem with players like Lovren in the team, because afterall, we got to Kiev.

      We got to Kiev with Karius in goal so I'm asking does your logic apply to him too?

      My argument is yes Lovren has good games sometimes. So does bloody Karius. But to reach the heights we all desire they have to be incredibly consistent all through the season and neither of them are.

      The way Karius crumbled in Kiev we all knew he had that in him. We all knew he was capable of a disaster like that and unfortunately for us, it happened in the biggest club game possible and our biggest match for a decade.

      Re Karius, this isn't really the right thread to do the forensics on his performances, but no goalkeeper we've signed for this club has been waterproof since Ray Clemence. Even Grobbelaar was error prone, yet we still won leagues and cups every year with him around. Look at Dudek. He made that great save in Istanbul, ostracised, discarded and sold  after it. Were they carried by the rest of the team?

      The point is, goalkeepers and defenders will make mistakes, even the best ones, and sometimes they will hurt. All you can do is hope they are few and far between. Our biggest obstacle to success atm is the ability to cope with a setback, such as a sloppy goal or a Salah sub, and not lose the plot. Fix that and we can win major trophies, even with Karius and Lovren around.

      Making a mistake isn't the end of the world. You just get on with the rest of the game, as before. Croatia in this tournament have shown that they can cope, so Dejan is in the final, and other supposedly better players will be sitting at home this weekend.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1927: Jul 12, 2018 11:07:20 pm
      Re Karius, this isn't really the right thread to do the forensics on his performances, but no goalkeeper we've signed for this club has been waterproof since Ray Clemence. Even Grobbelaar was error prone, yet we still won leagues and cups every year with him around. Look at Dudek. He made that great save in Istanbul, ostracised, discarded and sold  after it. Were they carried by the rest of the team?

      The point is, goalkeepers and defenders will make mistakes, even the best ones, and sometimes they will hurt. All you can do is hope they are few and far between. Our biggest obstacle to success atm is the ability to cope with a setback, such as a sloppy goal or a Salah sub, and not lose the plot. Fix that and we can win major trophies, even with Karius and Lovren around.

      Making a mistake isn't the end of the world. You just get on with the rest of the game, as before. Croatia in this tournament have shown that they can cope, so Dejan is in the final, and other supposedly better players will be sitting at home this weekend.

      Just going round in circles here really aren't we.

      Karius was relevant to the conversation because you stated we can compete for trophies with Lovren in the team because we made it to Kiev. So I asked you whether that same logic applies to our goalkeeper too who I think 99.9% of us would swap if we were given the option.

      We made it to Kiev so we proved we can challenge for trophies so what's that point of us even being in the transfer market then? According to you our team is good enough. Something that I would strongly disageee with and I'd argue that the league table shows it. Taking nothing away from our Man City performances (both games i went too and they were the f**king bollocks), our run to the CL was f**king piss easy too. We couldn't have wished for a better or easier route.

      Yes defenders and goalies will make mistakes, of course they will, they're not robots. De gea made a massive one against Portugal the other week but he's still the best keeper in the world. Strikers will miss open goals. Midfielders will lose possession. It happens. It's football.

      The mistakes that the top players make are very rare though and this is what I'm trying to explain but i think it's going over your head. As I keep saying it's all about consistency. De gea performs at a 8, 9 or a 10 every single week. Karius doesn't. He varies anywhere between an 8 and a f**king 0 in truth.

      Dejan Lovren is exactly the same. He doesn't have the consistency levels that a top centre half has. The mistakes Lovren makes are far more frequent than what Virgil would make for example. That's the difference. And that's why he isn't and never will be a top CB.

      It's the same situation. Van Dijk performs at a 8, 9, 10 every week but Lovren can vary anywhere from a 0 to an 8. I would find it baffling if somebody told me that they thought different and believed he is consistent who performs at an 8 every week let's say and that his mistakes are rare.

      Let's not forget that before we signed Virgil our back line was a complete mess with Dejan being a massive factor. We couldn't keep a clean sheet. Take Van Dijk out of that team and we still have massive problems.

      I'm seeing quotes from Lovren today all over social media where he has apparently come out and said he is one of the best defenders in the world. Look at the reaction it's gotten. I haven't seen anybody in agreement. Just people pissing themselves. If Virgil came out and made a statement like that everybody would agree.

      I'm not going to make it 'I told you so' type of debate, but honestly mate let's end it here and just wait and see because I know it's only a matter of time before we see Lovren pull a typical Lovren type error.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1928: Jul 12, 2018 11:52:15 pm
      Quote from HamannsTheMan
      Karius was relevant to the conversation because you stated we can compete for trophies with Lovren in the team because we made it to Kiev. So I asked you whether that same logic applies to our goalkeeper too who I think 99.9% of us would swap if we were given the option.

      We made it to Kiev so we proved we can challenge for trophies so what's that point of us even being in the transfer market then? According to you our team is good enough. Something that I would strongly disageee with and I'd argue that the league table shows it. Taking nothing away from our Man City performances (both games i went too and they were the f**king bollocks), our run to the CL was f**king piss easy too. We couldn't have wished for a better or easier route.

      Yes defenders and goalies will make mistakes, of course they will, they're not robots. De gea made a massive one against Portugal the other week but he's still the best keeper in the world. Strikers will miss open goals. Midfielders will lose possession. It happens. It's football.

      The mistakes that the top players make are very rare though and this is what I'm trying to explain but i think it's going over your head. As I keep saying it's all about consistency. De gea performs at a 8, 9 or a 10 every single week. Karius doesn't. He varies anywhere between an 8 and a f**king 0 in truth.

      Dejan Lovren is exactly the same. He doesn't have the consistency levels that a top centre half has. The mistakes Lovren makes are far more frequent than what Virgil would make for example. That's the difference. And that's why he isn't and never will be a top CB.

      It's the same situation. Van Dijk performs at a 8, 9, 10 every week but Lovren can vary anywhere from a 0 to an 8. I would find it baffling if somebody told me that they thought different and believed he is consistent who performs at an 8 every week let's say and that his mistakes are rare.

      Let's not forget that before we signed Virgil our back line was a complete mess with Dejan being a massive factor. We couldn't keep a clean sheet. Take Van Dijk out of that team and we still have massive problems.

      I'm seeing quotes from Lovren today all over social media where he has apparently come out and said he is one of the best defenders in the world

      I don't know what you expected him to say, but he's a World and European Cup Finalist. So he was hardly going to say he really thinks he's crap.

      We've accepted that players make mistakes, because it's football. The problem here is, you have a set view about Dejan, and no matter how he plays or what he achieves, that view isn't going to change. You will probably tell me he committed too many fouls against France or something, if he goes on to win the thing. And if he dares make a mistake well.... Same goes for Karius.

      As for the Spanish manc, he made a major howler that cost his side 2 points on the biggest stage in football, the World Cup. Moreover, it was his second mistake in two internationals. He kept one clean sheet in the tournament and was gone halfway through the second round. That's the world's "best" keeper apparently. As for the other contender for that title, he didn't even make it out of the group phase.

      Sorry, not going to agree that we had an easy run in the European Cup. We had the toughest qualifier possible, then a group that went all the way to the wire, then had to go to City and Roma in the return legs, just to get to Kiev. We got to Kiev after a 3 hour long, 13 goal semi final slog. At no stage did I think we had made it until the ref blew his whistle in Rome. Then we had to play the best team in Europe in the final. It was far from easy, while getting to the final is not an annual event for this club.

      Domestically, you can remove City from the discussion as they were in a one team league. We finished 6 points off second, while retaining our European Cup spot, despite the issues, injuries and demanding schedules that went with it. It was by recent seasons, a very acceptable return and provides a good platform to take the next step in the project. With or without Karius and Lovren.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1929: Jul 13, 2018 12:24:47 am
      I don't know what you expected him to say, but he's a World and European Cup Finalist. So he was hardly going to say he really thinks he's crap.

      We've accepted that players make mistakes, because it's football. The problem here is, you have a set view about Dejan, and no matter how he plays or what he achieves, that view isn't going to change. You will probably tell me he committed too many fouls against France or something, if he goes on to win the thing. And if he dares make a mistake well.... Same goes for Karius.

      As for the Spanish manc, he made a major howler that cost his side 2 points on the biggest stage in football, the World Cup. Moreover, it was his second mistake in two internationals. He kept one clean sheet in the tournament and was gone halfway through the second round. That's the world's "best" keeper apparently. As for the other contender for that title, he didn't even make it out of the group phase.

      Sorry, not going to agree that we had an easy run in the European Cup. We had the toughest qualifier possible, then a group that went all the way to the wire, then had to go to City and Roma in the return legs, just to get to Kiev. We got to Kiev after a 3 hour long, 13 goal semi final slog. At no stage did I think we had made it until the ref blew his whistle in Rome. Then we had to play the best team in Europe in the final. It was far from easy, while getting to the final is not an annual event for this club.

      Domestically, you can remove City from the discussion as they were in a one team league. We finished 6 points off second, while retaining our European Cup spot, despite the issues, injuries and demanding schedules that went with it. It was by recent seasons, a very acceptable return and provides a good platform to take the next step in the project. With or without Karius and Lovren.

      That is a very lengthy post with hardly any relevance.

      To make things brief:

      1. I don't have an agenda against Lovren. To win league titles and European honours you need a team who is consistent. That's the whole point of the bloody league. Whoever is the most consistent over 38 games wins the bloody thing. Lovren isn't consistent enough it's that simple. And yes if he does make a mistake, which he will soon enough, I will highlight it.

      2.  De Gea is the best goalkeeper in the world or certainly top three. If your suggesting otherwise then your posts are no longer credible to me. Likewise, if you're dismissing neuer as one of the best keepers in the world the same applies.

      3. We had the easiest run in the champions league that we could have wished for.  This time last year, if you offered any Liverpool fan the run of: hoffenheim, a group consisting of sevilla, spartak and f**king Maribor, Porto, city, Roma then they'd have snapped your bloody hand off.

      Do you not remember the potential groups we could have been in or something? The potential knock out games we could have gotten?  F**k me, we didn't half get some luck in those draws and how you can deny that is just mind boggling. 

      You've basicslly dismissed de gea as being a top goalkeeper, same with neuer, and suggested our run to Kiev was difficult all to try and boost your arguments or something.

      People will say literally anything on here.

      4. No. I won't just dismiss Man City thank you. Because they are the bloody champions. THAT is the standard. The standard I keep banging on about and what is the whole point of this bloody debate.

      'You can discuss dejan Lovren and Liverpool but Man City aren't included because they're too good'

      Bloody ridiculous!


      We will have to agree to disagree anyway. You think dejan Lovren is boss and he's good enough for a team with title ambitions. I don't. That's the end of it haha.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1930: Jul 13, 2018 01:01:47 am
      Are you seriously asking a Liverpool fan that despises the mancs, to eulogise about a manc keeper? So when he makes his own share of errors, they are going to be fished out and highlighted. Same as you with Lovren, only he's one of us and you're supposed to get behind him, even if he'll never be a Hansen.

      Hoffenheim was the side I wanted to avoid in the qualifying round. Even more so when we had to face a penalty there after just 10 minutes. I also said I didn't want Roma in the semi final, and certainly not having to go there in the second leg, with all the hassle involved. But that's exactly what we had to deal with. One of our fans is still in hospital. As for City? Well who wants to play City? Our group went to the final day with nothing decided. There were not many other groups with that scenario. We got a nice fixture list for the group, but that was about it. If however, we had to go to Seville and get a result there on the last day to progress, well we know the hard way how tough Seville are.

      You have a view about Lovren, so no matter how he performs, it will never be consistent enough for you. The fact is he has achieved more than many players this season, and if he was somewhere else, we would take one look at his record this year, and see if he was available.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1931: Jul 13, 2018 04:11:29 am
      Are you seriously asking a Liverpool fan that despises the mancs, to eulogise about a manc keeper? So when he makes his own share of errors, they are going to be fished out and highlighted. Same as you with Lovren, only he's one of us and you're supposed to get behind him, even if he'll never be a Hansen.

      Hoffenheim was the side I wanted to avoid in the qualifying round. Even more so when we had to face a penalty there after just 10 minutes. I also said I didn't want Roma in the semi final, and certainly not having to go there in the second leg, with all the hassle involved. But that's exactly what we had to deal with. One of our fans is still in hospital. As for City? Well who wants to play City? Our group went to the final day with nothing decided. There were not many other groups with that scenario. We got a nice fixture list for the group, but that was about it. If however, we had to go to Seville and get a result there on the last day to progress, well we know the hard way how tough Seville are.

      You have a view about Lovren, so no matter how he performs, it will never be consistent enough for you. The fact is he has achieved more than many players this season, and if he was somewhere else, we would take one look at his record this year, and see if he was available.

      Are you six years old or something lad? Yes we all hate Man U but does that mean you can't accept that de gea is the best goalie in the world or something? That's just silly and immature.

      I would have used de gea in the example no matter who he played for because he's the best keeper in the world. It just so happens that it's man united. But the point i was making was that even the best players make mistakes at times but it's very rare that they do. It isn't just about making a mistake either, it's about performing to a high level every single week.  Lovren might not make any drastic mistakes that lead directly to a goal but it doesn't necessarily mean he's had a good game either.

      Well if we're shitting our knickers over F***ing hoffenheim then I don't even know why we bother qualifying for the damn thing then. No disrespect to them, but if we played them 100 times I'd expect to beat them about 80. We played them twice this season and we beat them twice. With ease.

      You know as well as I do that the champions league draw was very kind to us this season but let me refresh your memory anyway. We were in pot three. From all the teams we could have drawn from pot 1, 2 and 4 we got the weakest in each. We couldn't have possibly asked for a better draw so I can't actually believe what I'm reading here.

      So what if it went to the last game of the group to secure qualification? That doesn't mean the group was strong. Maybe it had something to do with our bloody defence throwing a 3-0 win away in Seville. Funnily enough, Lovren partnered Klavan in the defence that night as we didn't have VVD back then.

      Then we move into the last 16. Again, from all clubs we could have drawn we were gifted Porto, the weakest team we could have possibly faced. Just like hoffenheim, I expected us to comfortably beat them and that we did. We didn't just beat them, we F***ing smashed them apart and showed the difference in class.

      Then our luck changed and we were given city. Our performances in both legs was immense and I have stated several times Lovren more than played his part in them. He was solid.

      Then into the semi's and the luck was back on our side and we were given Roma instead of Bayern or real. Nobody cares what your personal preference was, it's irrelevant. And any off the field antics has nothing to do with what happens on the pitch either. The fact is Roma are a far weaker side than either Bayern or Real. End of.

      So the draw couldn't have gone any better for us so just come off it lad. Stop spouting sh*te trying to blag some weird point. It's just embarrassing trying to claim that we had this horrific run before we made it to Kiev and that dejan Lovren was a massive part of it. We couldn't have asked for a better run. 

      You keep repeating yourself in saying I have something against Lovren, that I have an agenda against him and that I never see any good in him but I've stated several times already and in this post alone he has performed on occasions and when he has done then I've openly said so. 

      If anything it's people like yourself who have the agenda just to defend him for the sake of it. It's like he and certain other players can do no wrong but the fact is he's not a top level centre half. You keep saying if he wasn't on our books then we would all be after him after the season he's had and we would all be desperate for him to sign. Ok, so tell me why not one big club has come in for him then if he's so great?  I'll tell you if you want. It's because he isn't CONSISTENT.

      At the start of your post you said I'm supposed to defend him. I want Liverpool to win titles. I want Liverpool to win European cups. For that to happen we have to be the best and there is very small margin for error. I don't believe dejan Lovren is good enough for those type of standards. I believe, well I don't just believe i F***ing know, that he has mistakes in him and that he can be a liability. I simply don't trust him.

      Look at the premiership winning teams of the past and be honest with yourself. Is dejan Lovren getting in those sides? No he isn't. Nowhere near them.

      It has been forgotten amongst us what it takes to win the league now and we've accepted so much mediocrity at Liverpool. So many average players over the years who our fans big up like they're world class.

      I have this conversation with my mates down the pub all the time. The example I always use is John Arne Riise. If you asked the average Liverpool fan what they thought of him they would say he was boss. That he's a legend. He wasn't boss at all. He was a very average full back who scored some absolute belters during his time and it basically conned people into thinking he was this world class left back. 

      As a season ticket holder I only remember too well the amount of times he was out of position and the way he got torn inside out all the time by wingers. He wasn't consistent enough either, nowhere near consistent enough, but you still get so many reds who will tell you what a fantastic player he was.

      Look at the best left backs who have ever played in the premier league. Nobody outside of Liverpool would ever mention John Arne riise's name in that conversation. It will be Cole, evra and even Baines. And that's the standard. That's the level required and that's what I keep repeating myself on.

      If you asked the same question now who's the best cb in the league, again, dejan Lovren will never come up in that conversation but you still get reds bragging he's this boss defender.

      Dejan Lovren would not get a game for any of our rivals. He will not be remembered as a great centre half when he retires either. He might have reached two finals this seeson but it's not F***ing dejan Lovren fc. He's playing for two bloody good teams here. One has the best club attack in Europe and the other has the best international midfied in Europe too.

      In my opinion his level is around 6th. On his day, very good. But 'his day' doesn't happen anywhere near enough. None of the big boys would touch him with a barge pole because he can't be trusted to peform every week.

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