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      Dejan Lovren Player Thread

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      FL Red
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1890: Jun 18, 2018 09:33:23 pm
      I'm all for bringing in another CB but I see no reason to break up the VVD Lovren partnership which has looked a world class pairing for a few game now.

      I don't know that I agree they (Lovren) look world class. Lovren to me still always appears to have a mistake ready to surface (much like a lot of the "Karius out" crew feel about him). But I would concede he's looked better since the arrival of VVD. Still would like to see us get hold of someone even better to put with VVD, especially if we are going to persist with Karius.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1891: Jun 18, 2018 09:39:05 pm
      I don't know that I agree they (Lovren) look world class. Lovren to me still always appears to have a mistake ready to surface (much like a lot of the "Karius out" crew feel about him). But I would concede he's looked better since the arrival of VVD. Still would like to see us get hold of someone even better to put with VVD, especially if we are going to persist with Karius.

      I don't mean Lovren is world class individually I mean as a pairing they compliment each other so well it's a brilliant partnership which I would be very reluctant to split up. Just becusue a CB might be an overall better individual player than Lovren it doesn't automatically mean he will compliment and gel with VVD.

      I would also be shocked if Karius is still our No.1 next season.
      FL Red
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1892: Jun 18, 2018 09:43:06 pm
      I don't mean Lovren is world class individually I mean as a pairing they compliment each other so well it's a brilliant partnership which I would be very reluctant to split up. Just becusue a CB might be an overall better individual player than Lovren it doesn't automatically mean he will compliment and gel with VVD.

      I would also be shocked if Karius is still our No.1 next season.

      Probably best for another thread, but I actually would be shocked if he's not.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1893: Jun 27, 2018 06:13:06 pm
      Arab Scouse
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1894: Jul 11, 2018 09:43:36 pm
      Lads

      Dejan Lovren is in a WC final.

      let that sink in...

      Kopite78
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1895: Jul 11, 2018 09:45:47 pm
      Well in Degsy hope you win it lad
      waltonl4
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1896: Jul 11, 2018 09:46:54 pm
      Dejan took some stick from the experts but guess what he is in the final good luck to him
      GegenPressClub
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1897: Jul 11, 2018 09:48:25 pm
      Lads

      Dejan Lovren is in a WC final.

      let that sink in...

      Haha yep.

      And that's despite that handball for a penalty against Iceland, and that brainsnap that almost gifted Russia a goal.

      Luckily for Croatia, they don't also have Karius in goal hahaha.
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1898: Jul 11, 2018 10:26:01 pm
      Go on Dejan lad!
      Arab Scouse
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1899: Jul 11, 2018 10:56:50 pm
      I would be made up if he won it.

      CL finalist and WC finalist. :)
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1900: Jul 11, 2018 11:00:30 pm
      I would be made up if he won it.

      CL finalist and WC finalist. :)

      Same, but even more made up for Croatia. Reading some of the players stories, I think it would be special for them to win it.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1901: Jul 11, 2018 11:08:40 pm
      Dejan took some stick from the experts but guess what he is in the final good luck to him

      He was immense tonight!!
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1902: Jul 11, 2018 11:09:49 pm
      He was awful tonight, especially first half. Literally all over the place.

      Wish him all the luck in the world but f**k me I don't half worry about the thought of him being first choice for us.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1903: Jul 11, 2018 11:11:49 pm
      He was awful tonight, especially first half. Literally all over the place.

      Wish him all the luck in the world but f**k me I don't half worry about the thought of him being first choice for us.

      I thought he was immense! Maybe I should re-watch the match!
      sore monad
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1904: Jul 11, 2018 11:11:56 pm
      Same, but even more made up for Croatia. Reading some of the players stories, I think it would be special for them to win it.

      Apparently some of the Croatian players were singing fascist-nationalist songs after one of their earlier WC wins. They have that in their history, and a lot of them still seem quite attached to it. I'd rather have France win it, which I think they will.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1905: Jul 11, 2018 11:12:54 pm
      Apparently some of the Croatian players were singing fascist-nationalist songs after one of their earlier WC wins. They have that in their history, and a lot of them still seem quite attached to it. I'd rather have France win it, which I think they will.

      Oh sh*t, I didn't know about that, I will have to look it up later.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1906: Jul 12, 2018 02:00:12 am
      I thought he was immense! Maybe I should re-watch the match!

      Funny old game isn't it mate.

      To be honest (and similar with Hendo), because I don't rate either of them I probably pick up on their faults more then I do when they do something good.  It's the same for people who rate them too.

      At the top of my head he dived in to a tackle with dele Ali who did a little flick and made him look stupid. He played Kane on side and had literally no idea Kane was even there. Kane should have bagged and the game was done then. He then dived into another tackle second half on Kane who megged him and again made him look like a fool. Shortly afterwards Lovren launched the ball into the crowd with a poor clearance.

      In general I thought he was rash tonight and his positioning was dire at times.

      I do think he improved slightly as the game went on though but he's another one I don't think is anywhere near good enough for Liverpool.  Not if we're serious about winning trophies.
      « Last Edit: Jul 12, 2018 02:16:18 am by HamannsTheMan »
      GegenPressClub
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1907: Jul 12, 2018 02:38:48 am
      Funny old game isn't it mate.

      To be honest (and similar with Hendo), because I don't rate either of them I probably pick up on their faults more then I do when they do something good.  It's the same for people who rate them too.

      At the top of my head he dived in to a tackle with dele Ali who did a little flick and made him look stupid. He played Kane on side and had literally no idea Kane was even there. Kane should have bagged and the game was done then. He then dived into another tackle second half on Kane who megged him and again made him look like a fool. Shortly afterwards Lovren launched the ball into the crowd with a poor clearance.

      In general I thought he was rash tonight and his positioning was dire at times.

      I do think he improved slightly as the game went on though but he's another one I don't think is anywhere near good enough for Liverpool.  Not if we're serious about winning trophies.

      Ha well Vida was still having a go at him for something later on in the second half too.

      But yeah, I think Lovren will always be in my group with Moreno and Karius. Risks and blunders. They all switch off or go for unnecessary hero players. When we're smashing 100+ goals the other end, we don't need defensive players who do that, just safe and reliable.

      Sadly, like the others, Lovren doesn't learn from his mistakes. For example, hero header attempt vs Tottenham, resulting in Kane goal. Hero header attempt vs Man City, resulting in Gundogan goal. And then hero header atrempt vs Roma, resulting in Dzeko goal.

      Nothing against the lad personally (ha as frustrating as he can be), but I'll always be on the edge of my seat when we're defending with him in our team, in a different manner to when he isn't. With Karius there still though, it'll remain constant anxiety sessions haha.

      Congrats to him making it to the WC final though in spite of his moments though. What a feeling!
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1908: Jul 12, 2018 03:35:21 am
      Ha well Vida was still having a go at him for something later on in the second half too.

      But yeah, I think Lovren will always be in my group with Moreno and Karius. Risks and blunders. They all switch off or go for unnecessary hero players. When we're smashing 100+ goals the other end, we don't need defensive players who do that, just safe and reliable.

      Sadly, like the others, Lovren doesn't learn from his mistakes. For example, hero header attempt vs Tottenham, resulting in Kane goal. Hero header attempt vs Man City, resulting in Gundogan goal. And then hero header atrempt vs Roma, resulting in Dzeko goal.

      Nothing against the lad personally (ha as frustrating as he can be), but I'll always be on the edge of my seat when we're defending with him in our team, in a different manner to when he isn't. With Karius there still though, it'll remain constant anxiety sessions haha.

      Congrats to him making it to the WC final though in spite of his moments though. What a feeling!

      Agree with every word.

      His fans will argue that his performances improved somewhat when van Dijk came into the team, which I suppose they did, but what happens when van Dijk gets an injury or needs a rest? We're in deep sh*t then.

      Lovren is a liability and he always has a mistake in him. He made a couple tonight and had England capitalised on them then they would have been highlighted.

      I wasn't fully listening to what was being said at half time (so if I'm wrong then i apologise) but I kind of got the gist that Gary Neville was criticising lovrens performance too.  Ex manc or not, he's a great pundit who knows his stuff and most of the time I find myself agreeing with him.

      I'm surprised to see purple say he thought he had a terrific game though (a poster i find myself agreeing with a lot of the time too), so perhaps he did things well that I didnt pick up on.
      GegenPressClub
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1909: Jul 12, 2018 04:34:41 am
      Agree with every word.

      His fans will argue that his performances improved somewhat when van Dijk came into the team, which I suppose they did, but what happens when van Dijk gets an injury or needs a rest? We're in deep sh*t then.

      Lovren is a liability and he always has a mistake in him. He made a couple tonight and had England capitalised on them then they would have been highlighted.

      I wasn't fully listening to what was being said at half time (so if I'm wrong then i apologise) but I kind of got the gist that Gary Neville was criticising lovrens performance too.  Ex manc or not, he's a great pundit who knows his stuff and most of the time I find myself agreeing with him.

      I'm surprised to see purple say he thought he had a terrific game though (a poster i find myself agreeing with a lot of the time too), so perhaps he did things well that I didnt pick up on.

      I think that's the challenge when assessing talent. Lovren, Moreno, and Karius are all capable of doing great things, and so when they go a few moments without blatantly stuffing up, they are made to look better than they are because the team then tends to get results without their more obvious blunders.

      Now I'm obviously a Liverpool fan, but I'm very much also a football fan. I've found myself scaling back some of my viewing of other sports in order to watch more football, so I find myself watching a lot of games from other teams. You really get a deeper understanding of team and player styles and temparement, and perhaps most importantly, what really makes up the margins between winning, drawing, and losing, which you don't get from highlights. And it's definitely not as simple as comparing individual class, more often than not.

      The thing that stands out to me is how I find myself viewing other defences when I watch them. With Liverpool, despite dominating most games, there is always a particular anxiety that comes when we're facing a corner or free kick. Any situation really which strips away the key advantages of our system, and leaves the players relying on focus and temparement, and their communication with, and confidence in, each other.

      As an observer, there is a lack of trust in too many players in our team (2 or 3 in particular) that they'll either switch off, or be too aggressive and blunder.

      And it comes down to that focus and temperament. It's not just with Liverpool. I get it (with less care obviously haha) with Arsenal, Stoke, and to a lesser degree, West Brom. Not with too many others though.

      For example, I never got it when watching lesser teams like Burnley, or even teams like Bournemouth (although Begovic did have a shaky period) and Newcastle (once they finally moved past Darlow and Elliot). Not a collective of standout players, but one never felt that there was an unnecessary stuff up just waiting to happen from one of these players.

      All of them probably made mistakes, sure, but for most, there isn't an inherent expectation that a mistake is on its way, especially one that could have easily been avoided.

      And that's all we need defensively! Just do your job. Do the simple things right. Let our attackers win us the games, and just concentrate on not gifting opponents chances. Sounds absurd, yet the same players continue to be liabilities. There are much lesser players though, who would not be liabilities, and we'd have turned many of those draws and losses last year into wins if we'd had them.

      No amount of WC final appearances or headed winners for us will take away the constant threat Lovren is of gifting a goal to an opponent. However, it looks like we're sticking by him as first choice beside VVD, so we can only hope another season beside him will at least minimise those key errors. I really wish he would develop into that reliable player we need, but he's highlighted quite clearly throughout the last couple of seasons that he has little interest in eliminating that impulsive irresponsibility from his game. Shame.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1910: Jul 12, 2018 06:51:48 am
      Quote from HamannsTheMan
      His fans will argue that his performances improved somewhat when van Dijk came into the team, which I suppose they did, but what happens when van Dijk gets an injury or needs a rest? We're in deep sh*t then.

      Lovren is a liability and he always has a mistake in him. He made a couple tonight and had England capitalised on them then they would have been highlighted.

      He's a Liverpool player who is a European and World Cup finalist in the same season. If he was somewhere else, we would be crying why we don't go and sign such players.

      Like most defenders, he has a wobble or two in his closet, and he hasn't been wobbleproof in this tournament. But he's still standing and before you go tearing into him, ask where will Stones be on Sunday? Walker? Vertonghen? Matic? Kompany? Otamendi? 

      Kane was anonymous in the semi final. He missed a sitter from two yards with two attempts to score it. That's England's main man on the biggest stage in world football, missing sitters and free headers when he can least afford it. Meanwhile Dejan has helped see off Argentina Russia and England just to reach the final, some of them after extra time. He had a great game in the semi final. Clearing his lines here, getting blocks there. Even with the last play of the game, when his country needed him, there he was to head the ball away to safety, the stuff that looks nothing special, but still has to be done.

      It's often said you can't play him to challenge for major trophies. Well he is already a European Finalist and could be a World Champion in a few days, and there's not really many bigger trophies around than those. While Jürgen and Croatia consider him essential in the starting line up. So they must obviously see something about him that a lot don't.
      wellbuilt
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1911: Jul 12, 2018 09:34:25 am
      i'm happy for Dejan, its nice to have a LFC player in the final of the world cup - but i do cringe when he talks as he always seems to over talk and talk absolute sh*te.

      bazspeedman
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1912: Jul 12, 2018 09:35:23 am
      Top CB.

      Still young.

      Will only get better.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1913: Jul 12, 2018 09:38:10 am
      I think that's the challenge when assessing talent. Lovren, Moreno, and Karius are all capable of doing great things, and so when they go a few moments without blatantly stuffing up, they are made to look better than they are because the team then tends to get results without their more obvious blunders.

      Now I'm obviously a Liverpool fan, but I'm very much also a football fan. I've found myself scaling back some of my viewing of other sports in order to watch more football, so I find myself watching a lot of games from other teams. You really get a deeper understanding of team and player styles and temparement, and perhaps most importantly, what really makes up the margins between winning, drawing, and losing, which you don't get from highlights. And it's definitely not as simple as comparing individual class, more often than not.

      The thing that stands out to me is how I find myself viewing other defences when I watch them. With Liverpool, despite dominating most games, there is always a particular anxiety that comes when we're facing a corner or free kick. Any situation really which strips away the key advantages of our system, and leaves the players relying on focus and temparement, and their communication with, and confidence in, each other.

      As an observer, there is a lack of trust in too many players in our team (2 or 3 in particular) that they'll either switch off, or be too aggressive and blunder.

      And it comes down to that focus and temperament. It's not just with Liverpool. I get it (with less care obviously haha) with Arsenal, Stoke, and to a lesser degree, West Brom. Not with too many others though.

      For example, I never got it when watching lesser teams like Burnley, or even teams like Bournemouth (although Begovic did have a shaky period) and Newcastle (once they finally moved past Darlow and Elliot). Not a collective of standout players, but one never felt that there was an unnecessary stuff up just waiting to happen from one of these players.

      All of them probably made mistakes, sure, but for most, there isn't an inherent expectation that a mistake is on its way, especially one that could have easily been avoided.

      And that's all we need defensively! Just do your job. Do the simple things right. Let our attackers win us the games, and just concentrate on not gifting opponents chances. Sounds absurd, yet the same players continue to be liabilities. There are much lesser players though, who would not be liabilities, and we'd have turned many of those draws and losses last year into wins if we'd had them.

      No amount of WC final appearances or headed winners for us will take away the constant threat Lovren is of gifting a goal to an opponent. However, it looks like we're sticking by him as first choice beside VVD, so we can only hope another season beside him will at least minimise those key errors. I really wish he would develop into that reliable player we need, but he's highlighted quite clearly throughout the last couple of seasons that he has little interest in eliminating that impulsive irresponsibility from his game. Shame.

      Moreno, and Karius are all capable of doing great things  :lmao:
      wellbuilt
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1914: Jul 12, 2018 09:46:46 am
      Top CB.

      Still young.

      Will only get better.

      is this a joke?

      hes 29 and not Benjamin Button
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1915: Jul 12, 2018 10:05:51 am
      is this a joke?

      hes 29 and not Benjamin Button

      Thought he was 28?

      Still 29 CB's are entering their prime.
      heimdall
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1916: Jul 12, 2018 10:24:33 am
      I thought he was immense! Maybe I should re-watch the match!

      I agree with you, I though he was very good, not that England managed to create very much, but perhaps he was one of the reasons for that.
      wellbuilt
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1917: Jul 12, 2018 10:52:04 am
      Thought he was 28?

      Still 29 CB's are entering their prime.

      hahahahaha, fair play mate.

      i 100% disagree with CB's entering their prime at 29+

      however, your opinion is always welcome
      stuey
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1918: Jul 12, 2018 10:58:45 am
      Apparently some of the Croatian players were singing fascist-nationalist songs after one of their earlier WC wins. They have that in their history, and a lot of them still seem quite attached to it. I'd rather have France win it, which I think they will.

      Fascism is unbelievably still an issue in Croatia with a shadowy acceptance of this most grotesque neo-nazi mantra, not the biggest fan of France but on this occasion I hope they hammer them.
      Shabs
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #1919: Jul 12, 2018 11:10:21 am
      Fascism is unbelievably still an issue in Croatia with a shadowy acceptance of this most grotesque neo-nazi mantra, not the biggest fan of France but on this occasion I hope they hammer them.

      No neo-Nazis in France right?..

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