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      Alberto Moreno (Contract Expired)

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      heimdall
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      Re: Alberto Moreno Player Thread
      Reply #1426: Nov 22, 2017 04:00:56 pm
      Can't blame Moreno for that second goal, it was an awful f**king ball to him from Coutinho. Trying way too hard if you're gonna put all the blame on Alberto for the second. Coutinho should take as much blame for not getting rid of the ball instead of playing an hospital ball back to Moreno.

      The pen was a bit harsh imo anyway, the f**king Sevilla player went down in f**king stages.


      Can't blame him for giving away a pen for a player running away form goal in the sixteen yard box by doing a fuckwit clumsy challenge? Excuse me but I think you'll find I bloody well can ;-)
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Alberto Moreno Player Thread
      Reply #1427: Nov 22, 2017 04:10:47 pm
      Can't blame him for giving away a pen for a player running away form goal in the sixteen yard box by doing a fuckwit clumsy challenge? Excuse me but I think you'll find I bloody well can ;-)

      It was a hospital ball from Coutinho in the first place, I'm not even sure there was that much contact from Moreno on the Sevilla player, who was always gonna go down in the box.

      I'd rather blame the soft c**t for giving away the free-kick for the first goal.
      Swab
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      Re: Alberto Moreno Player Thread
      Reply #1428: Nov 22, 2017 04:33:59 pm
      So every time we play Sevilla he needs dropping. Not the first time the occasion has got the better of him then!!

      Can't use that as an excuse, he had a F***ing shocker and it isn't the first time playing Sevilla it's happened.

      It's not an excuse, just an observation.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Alberto Moreno Player Thread
      Reply #1429: Nov 22, 2017 04:43:22 pm
      It's not an excuse, just an observation.

      A blind man could tell you that, happens a lot with Moreno, when his head goes, it goes big time!
      Breeding-Reds-In-The-434
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      Re: Alberto Moreno Player Thread
      Reply #1430: Nov 22, 2017 05:13:09 pm
      These are the things about Klopp that drive me mad. Everyone can see Robo is the more well rounded player yet he insists on playing Moreno because Robo isn’t a a “Klopp player”. How about playing the dude who is better? What’s wrong with that philosophy? Moreno is improved, sure. But he just can’t defend, and in order to be the best possible versions of ourselves our FBs need to defend. So let’s keep asking Bertie to do what he can’t do because he’s one of Klopps guys? Smh
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Alberto Moreno Player Thread
      Reply #1431: Nov 22, 2017 06:12:15 pm
      These are the things about Klopp that drive me mad. Everyone can see Robo is the more well rounded player yet he insists on playing Moreno because Robo isn’t a a “Klopp player”. How about playing the dude who is better? What’s wrong with that philosophy? Moreno is improved, sure. But he just can’t defend, and in order to be the best possible versions of ourselves our FBs need to defend. So let’s keep asking Bertie to do what he can’t do because he’s one of Klopps guys? Smh

      Can you though BRIT? I confess I never saw much of Robertson before we signed him and what I've seen while he's been here are some absolutely orgasmic crosses, but in terms of defending I honestly can't comment too much. Seen him get too far ahead of the game on occasion, that's quite natural in our early season formation but beyond that, tackling, heading, dealing with overlaps and covering for others I've seen none of it because he's played in games where we've absolutely dominated.

      So what JĂźrgen sees on the training ground I'm willing to trust, the proof has been there for all to see in Alberto's early form, now if it dips again then I'd expect Robbo to get a look in but on the basis of one poor display that would probably be a little harsh, essentially he's earned credit in the bank and it's now spent. Another F**k up of similar magnitude over the next 4 or 5 games and I'd have Robbo straight in the team and Alby could have no complaints.
      season12
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      Re: Alberto Moreno Player Thread
      Reply #1432: Nov 22, 2017 06:17:24 pm
      Moreno is a luxury player, the same kind like Marcelo. So if he was in RM/Barcelona, he would look solid as he would get a free run down the flank . But he is now at LFC and premier league, and we need our side defenders to defend first.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Alberto Moreno Player Thread
      Reply #1433: Nov 22, 2017 06:38:07 pm
      A lot of games coming up in the next few weeks, robbo will definitely get his chance
      Swab
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      Re: Alberto Moreno Player Thread
      Reply #1434: Nov 22, 2017 06:43:46 pm
      There's another issue here which no one has touched on yet, and that was the support Moreno got from the players in front of him.

      It was non existent.

      Coutinho spent most of his time on the field strolling around with a face like a slapped arse after a couple of heavy challenges early on, and Mane just looked as though he didn't have a clue what to do.

      Again, not an excuse, just an observation.
      Having said that, it's a team game, and we have every right to expect the lads up front to do their defensive jobs, just as people are right to point out Moreno's mistakes.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Alberto Moreno Player Thread
      Reply #1435: Nov 22, 2017 07:04:05 pm
      There's another issue here which no one has touched on yet, and that was the support Moreno got from the players in front of him.

      It was non existent.

      Coutinho spent most of his time on the field strolling around with a face like a slapped arse after a couple of heavy challenges early on, and Mane just looked as though he didn't have a clue what to do.

      Again, not an excuse, just an observation.
      Having said that, it's a team game, and we have every right to expect the lads up front to do their defensive jobs, just as people are right to point out Moreno's mistakes.

      None of the back 4 got any protection and none of them were as calamitous as Moreno.

      noggin
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      Re: Alberto Moreno Player Thread
      Reply #1436: Nov 22, 2017 08:09:42 pm
      Moreno could have shepherded the guy away from danger, didn't need to touch him, he was running away from goal, defending 101 doesn't require rashness just some composure.
      Swab
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      Re: Alberto Moreno Player Thread
      Reply #1437: Nov 22, 2017 08:49:29 pm
      None of the back 4 got any protection and none of them were as calamitous as Moreno.

      Gomez had a minder, the 2 CB's had players in front of them regardless of how ineffective they were, at times there was no one within 20 yards of Moreno.
      Sevilla targeted Gomez almost immediately, and thereafter, he had one of Henderson, Wijnaldum or Salah in attendance, and at times had Lovren stepping across to help him.
      Throughout most of the 2nd half you could clearly see 2 banks of 4, but the MF shifted slightly right, so that Moreno looked (and was) isolated.

      These glib responses do nothing for analysis and only serve to show that he is subject to the usual witch hunt that goes on amongst so many posters looking to lay blame without looking at why certain situations happened.

      Yes, he had a stinker, yes the occasion probably got the better of him, but people would do well to look past the obvious, and look at the bigger picture.
      For instance, was it Klopps notion again to leave the left open and try to force their attacks down that side as he has done before?
      If it was, they read it and exploited it, and it was something that should have been addressed sooner.
      bmck
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      Re: Alberto Moreno Player Thread
      Reply #1438: Nov 22, 2017 08:55:37 pm
      Thought Gomez on the other side did well.
      Moreno unfortunately can't defend to the same level.
      Pity, cause he's had a better start to the season, but mistakes are part of the package.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Alberto Moreno Player Thread
      Reply #1439: Nov 22, 2017 09:47:11 pm
      Gomez had a minder, the 2 CB's had players in front of them regardless of how ineffective they were, at times there was no one within 20 yards of Moreno.
      Sevilla targeted Gomez almost immediately, and thereafter, he had one of Henderson, Wijnaldum or Salah in attendance, and at times had Lovren stepping across to help him.
      Throughout most of the 2nd half you could clearly see 2 banks of 4, but the MF shifted slightly right, so that Moreno looked (and was) isolated.

      These glib responses do nothing for analysis and only serve to show that he is subject to the usual witch hunt that goes on amongst so many posters looking to lay blame without looking at why certain situations happened.

      Yes, he had a stinker, yes the occasion probably got the better of him, but people would do well to look past the obvious, and look at the bigger picture.
      For instance, was it Klopps notion again to leave the left open and try to force their attacks down that side as he has done before?
      If it was, they read it and exploited it, and it was something that should have been addressed sooner.

      Your last bit about him having a stinker is correct which is exactly how i saw it.

      Interesting your last paragraph because the way i saw it was that the Sevilla manager did a number on Klopp in the way he managed to get our midfield to lose shape and hence the lack of protection for the back 4, there again it doesn't take a genius to work out the weaknesses of our midfield.

      Swab
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      Re: Alberto Moreno Player Thread
      Reply #1440: Nov 22, 2017 10:27:26 pm
      Your last bit about him having a stinker is correct which is exactly how i saw it.

      Interesting your last paragraph because the way i saw it was that the Sevilla manager did a number on Klopp in the way he managed to get our midfield to lose shape and hence the lack of protection for the back 4, there again it doesn't take a genius to work out the weaknesses of our midfield.

      Re-visit Danzels post taken from RAWK in the tactics thread.
      The midfield didn't lose shape, they were trying to push Seville left, so that Mane's pace could be used on the left, which is why they looked lopsided in favour of the right.
      This also afforded Gomez more protection.
      It's a tactic Klopp uses regularly, and used it again last night, with the exception that Moreno (for whatever reason) wasn't up to the job.

      Seville were also very good at playing between our midfield, with lots of short balls, and passes in crowded area's, and only then spreading the play wide left, cleverly working an overload on Moreno while Mane was waiting for the out ball, and neglecting his defensive duties.
      One of the keys to Klopp pushing the opposition left is that Moreno wins the ball early, and gets it to Mane early; this was where he came unstuck, with one mistimed challenge (yellow), and then a poor pass from Coutinho that put him under pressure.

      Our problems last night went a lot deeper than Moreno or a misfiring midfield, because there was tactical failure as well.
      Yes, it was rectified pretty quickly, but we'd already conceded, and they had there tails up.
      They're also a very good side at home, as their record testifies.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Alberto Moreno Player Thread
      Reply #1441: Nov 22, 2017 10:37:52 pm
      Re-visit Danzels post taken from RAWK in the tactics thread.
      The midfield didn't lose shape, they were trying to push Seville left, so that Mane's pace could be used on the left, which is why they looked lopsided in favour of the right.
      This also afforded Gomez more protection.
      It's a tactic Klopp uses regularly, and used it again last night, with the exception that Moreno (for whatever reason) wasn't up to the job.

      Seville were also very good at playing between our midfield, with lots of short balls, and passes in crowded area's, and only then spreading the play wide left, cleverly working an overload on Moreno while Mane was waiting for the out ball, and neglecting his defensive duties.
      One of the keys to Klopp pushing the opposition left is that Moreno wins the ball early, and gets it to Mane early; this was where he came unstuck, with one mistimed challenge (yellow), and then a poor pass from Coutinho that put him under pressure.

      Our problems last night went a lot deeper than Moreno or a misfiring midfield, because there was tactical failure as well.
      Yes, it was rectified pretty quickly, but we'd already conceded, and they had there tails up.
      They're also a very good side at home, as their record testifies.

      You are right mate we didn't lose shape in midfield because because right from the start that was one of the worst midfield performances i have seen under Klopp so just because we got lucky in the first half when they missed a couple of glorious chances our luck was bound to run out.

      Im being slightly flippant, we were done over good and proper in that second half and for me that stemmed from our lack of control and protection in midfield.

      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Alberto Moreno Player Thread
      Reply #1442: Nov 22, 2017 10:54:39 pm
      I can forgive Moreno for the penalty, even thought i was a soft one, and he just reacted on instinct... But what for me was unforgivable was the foul he gave away which lead to the first goal.... What the F**k was he thinking?...Has to go
      Swab
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      Re: Alberto Moreno Player Thread
      Reply #1443: Nov 22, 2017 10:59:50 pm
      You are right mate we didn't lose shape in midfield because because right from the start that was one of the worst midfield performances i have seen under Klopp so just because we got lucky in the first half when they missed a couple of glorious chances our luck was bound to run out.

      Im being slightly flippant, we were done over good and proper in that second half and for me that stemmed from our lack of control and protection in midfield.

      To me the problems started at the front.
      We had 2 wide players who didn't play particularly well, didn't track back very well, and even Firmino was a bit out of sorts.
      This in turn put more pressure on midfield, who dropped deeper and deeper in the 2nd half, isolating the front 3 who didn't drop deep along with the midfield.
      At some points there was less than 5 yards between our defense and midfield, with 2 wide players 20 yards further up.

      It's a team game, one mistake begets another mistake until it turns into a cascade.

      Klopp is entirely right; we were too passive, from the front 3 all the way back during the 2nd half, and yet despite that, we still had chances to put it to bed.

      To me, it doesn't make sense to take one player or one part of the team and look at it in isolation.
      If the front 3 don't perform defensively it puts added pressure on the midfield, which then puts pressure on the defense.
      All the parts need to function properly, and last night, too many didn't function as they should, which is why we became passive (as a team).

      They're also a very clever team, and passed around us, probing and eventually finding gaps, rather than trying to go through us; in fact a pretty typical Spanish team, very good technically, good at finding space, and keeping the ball.
      Even then, with a decent ref we would have won that (again, the crappy ref is an observation, not an excuse).

      I just don't buy into all this doom and gloom and scapegoating.
      We all know Moreno had a poor game, but it wasn't him alone; it started from the front 3 being unable to adequately pressure them, and cascaded from there.
      PGlynn91
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      Re: Alberto Moreno Player Thread
      Reply #1444: Nov 23, 2017 11:16:56 am
      I can forgive Moreno for the penalty, even thought i was a soft one, and he just reacted on instinct... But what for me was unforgivable was the foul he gave away which lead to the first goal.... What the f**k was he thinking?...Has to go

      The penalty is unforgivable also. Sticks his leg back without looking not knowing what was going to happen.

      I don't care how decent he is going forward we are devastating that way anyway. I want my defenders to defend and our lads don't enjoy defending or want to.

      I used to love games 10 years ago when we might be winning 3-0 and Carra & co would lose their sh*t if we conceded a late consolation. They took pride in defending.
      Scotia
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      Re: Alberto Moreno Player Thread
      Reply #1445: Nov 23, 2017 11:28:51 am
      The penalty is unforgivable also. Sticks his leg back without looking not knowing what was going to happen.

      I don't care how decent he is going forward we are devastating that way anyway. I want my defenders to defend and our lads don't enjoy defending or want to.

      I used to love games 10 years ago when we might be winning 3-0 and Carra & co would lose their sh*t if we conceded a late consolation. They took pride in defending.

      It was poor all around for me - despite what some have said I thought he was very eratic in first half.

      The first goal was a clusterfuck - out of position, stupid challenge to recover and then seemed to wallow in it and just wasn’t alert / challenging on the free kick.

      He was shot to sh*t by the time he made the challenge......

      Same with his control etc before - his brain was fried.

      With him and Lovren that’s a common flaw - when they make a mistake in game that costs us they lose all focus and try to overcompensate.

      I said earlier on - I don’t think you can change that psychological wiring easily so you really need to limit the mistakes.

      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Alberto Moreno Player Thread
      Reply #1446: Nov 23, 2017 12:08:50 pm
      The penalty is unforgivable also. Sticks his leg back without looking not knowing what was going to happen.

      I don't care how decent he is going forward we are devastating that way anyway. I want my defenders to defend and our lads don't enjoy defending or want to.

      I used to love games 10 years ago when we might be winning 3-0 and Carra & co would lose their sh*t if we conceded a late consolation. They took pride in defending.
      The Penalty, It happens, you set all defenders doing it....

      Total agree on your second point... That was my main gripe with Glen Johnson, he could not defend... Moreno is cut from the same cloth he just can't defend and is in fact worse than G.J., He will dive in when there is no need to
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Alberto Moreno Player Thread
      Reply #1447: Nov 23, 2017 04:21:49 pm
      I'm going to overlook Alberto's mistakes against his old club, I'm going to give his the benefit of doubt on this one.

      The lad has just become a father, was not there for the birth of his little one, he turned up at the request of the Boss, I know Alonso refused to travel to inter for a far more important a game for similar reasons.

      Just let this one slide, lad has improved & come on from last season..
      Swab
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      Re: Alberto Moreno Player Thread
      Reply #1448: Nov 23, 2017 04:22:06 pm
      "Unforgivable"   :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

      F***ing hell, the level of hyperbole in here has gone through the roof.

      Have a F***ing word with yourselves.

      "Unforgivable" my arse.

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