Besiktas v Liverpool - Post Match Discussion

I think the antidote could also be the Arsenal game.  A massive game an excellent opportunity.  

Shanks would be turning in his grave at that performance tonight.

Where's the passion? I don't really know what to say about tonight, except that I am very disappointed with the team overall,, I have sat and read what everyone has written tonight, agree with some, disagree with others!!

I just feel that there is a complete lack of confidence running through the whole team, which is affecting everybody, once we get back to winning ways , which would be good to start with a thrashing of the Arsenal on Sunday, although after tonight's performance it's looking just a little bit doubtful, the lads will certainly need to raise their game.

I really thought that we'd be up for this game tonight, after beating the bluenoses last Saturday, but there was just nothing in that game tonight that was even remotely memorable, maybe the players can't be arsed with the Champions League, they certainly looked to me like they couldn't be arsed......too much money!!!! I think if I'd have been Rafa tonight I'd have told them that you don't get a penny tonight unless you win this game, maybe I am being too harsh........but Liverpool have a love affair with the Champions League, and it just won't seem right if we go out so soon......but we certainly have left ourselves a mountain to climb.
Let's just hope we can pull ourselves out of this mini/massive (whichever way you want to look at it) slump, and kick start against Arsenal on Sunday.

COME ON LIVERPOOL       ALL TRUE REDS ARE BEHIND YOU     WE CAN DO IT      IN RAFA WE TRUST

Shanks would be turning in his grave at that performance tonight.

He's probably been shaking a lot of late its time to put a smile on his face!

It is simple....if we cant defeat poor teams by 3 or 4 goals, we dont deserve do be champions. Arsenal and the mancs are punishing teams, and why cant we do that???
We continue to play poorly....now its evident, the absence of Agger is a factor, and same with Alonso....
Hyypia is clearly not good enough anymore....
I've never been so disgusted in my life.....i was upset that we didnt win the champions league 5-6 months ago.....i was very angry when we lost the merseyside derby last season 3-0.....but ive had enough, and this has really pissed me off...many things have to change at that club, beginning with Rafa pulling his finger out of his ass, swollowing his pride and brigning back Paco....Secondly, getting rid of atleast 3-4 players in january, and bringing in some key position players....a winger, a centre back, and another striker....

I've told you all before...this team is not capable to challenge for anything this year....until those YANKS sack RAFA we won't win anything....I'm hoping the team will get thrash by Arsene team this weekend.......HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

im REALLY worried about Arsenal, i think torres (is he fit?) and kuyt should be up front and crouch should come on (hopefully to get another 3).  hyypia shouldnt be allowed near the pitch let alone a ball, any one will do better in his position than what hes done to us in the past couple of games, sorry mate but you aint good enough anymore

F**k we are in serious ...

We still have a chance....if we win all 3  games....we can quality for the knockout stages...

I've told you all before...this team is not capable to challenge for anything this year....until those YANKS sack RAFA we won't win anything....I'm hoping the team will get thrash by Arsene team this weekend.......HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I've had enough of you now, you're not a fan at all.

Permanent ban.

Couldn't come on here last night. I don't know what I would have come out with at the time  I was so annoyed

Calmed down a bit now so here I go

I'm beginning to wonder if  indeed Pako had a bigger input then I would have expected. Did he have a say in when subs come in to a game and who comes in? I cant get my head around why Crouchy was left so late. Kuyt/Voronin partnership didn't work. Crouch played a huge part in our goal.

Our passing was at times desperate last night it was calling out for Xabi to come in and spray a few balls around again this didn't happen and Lucas was the one called and he offered little

Finnan looked very sloppy which was unusual for him. I'm not a big Riise fan as i've said before but surely hes mature enough to start learning when to get beyond his winger and when to stay behind. He bombed forward several times last night ahead of babel which meant the man on the ball had no passing option other then babel who was always tightly marked. If Riise had stayed behind babel he could have took the pass give it and then go

Besiktas are no great side and we did own them in the second half but why is it with only 5 mins to go knowing we have to score that we start to try different things? why don't we try these things all through out the game? we stick to our tactics way too much. And for me that tactic is too defensive

A mate of mine texted me last night to say that it was like watching Ireland play and he wasn't too far wrong very little imagination in our game.

I'm only glad we are at Anfield on Sunday as I fear Arsenal could open us right up as they have done before

Come on Rafa lets sort it out before its too late   

EddieC go apply for pakos job right now!!! you seem to know your sh*t and you look like god himself so that should be enough to get your foot in the door and start talking sence to Rafa!

GRRRRR! The team is in a state of shock i think after Pako left. No excuses from the good start we had, now were in this mess. Rafa isnt the right man and i think we all should see that especially recently. Stubborn is the best word to use. The team doesnt look happy and its Rafa i blame.

I've had enough of you now, you're not a fan at all.

Permanent ban.

Was the only thing you could have done there Eddie, we can do without dick heads like him

Sack RAFA...Sack RAFA...Sack RAFA...Sack RAFA...Sack RAFA

You are either a bluenose or twelve years old - or both.

For me one of the saddest things I have seen lately is Sammi trying to recapture his old form and failing miserably, I’m not talking about own goals but his play in general. He doesn’t seem to win half the amount of headers he did anymore he has always lacked pace for me but alays had the positional awareness Carra has to compensate for it and this I am afraid has now also deserted him. I am not going to lay the blame for our ‘dodgy’ defence purely at Sammi’s door but you must admit at the very least it is affecting Carra’s game as well and with Finnan deciding to have a bad spell on the right and the ginger winger on the left not sure what he is doing the saying that a team is built from the back proves to be only too true and the sooner Agger is back the better.

The midfield for me is fixable as Babbel is young and shows some promise but unfortunately we need the finished article now and promises of future star quality wont win us anything, I would like to see more of Ryan partnering Kuyt rather than Voronin who tends to make Dean Windass look mobile!, I do wonder how a player who scored 12 in 43 last year for Leverkusen is keeping Peter Crouch out of the team. For me Crouch for all his inadequacies does score goals and even though he’s got a head like a 50p does offer an aerial threat as well so would be a more offensive threat even if he isn’t one of my favourite players, ah but there is the word Rafa does not seem to like ‘offensive’, I just don’t understand the use of tactics that say they will not pass and we will then try and grab one up the other end, we have enough attacking players in our squad to go at teams I don’t mean go gung ho ten up front one at the back but patient fluid football in a forward direction and not sideways crab movements in the last minute of injury time when we are in search of a goal.
Don’t get me wrong having a tight defence is a must and I am not suggesting we mimic previous Newcastle sides with the ‘we will score more than we let in attitude’ no I am suggesting the balance of a solid defence with competent wingbacks who can get up and down when needed, in midfield if possible wingers  these are not outdated and many a team still employ wide men who stay wide and don’t end up getting in the way in the middle of the park whilst leaving gaps down the right and left sides.

Central midfield is surely a holding player paired with a more attack minded player who has freedom to push up and support the front two and not two holding players scared two push on for fear of letting the opposing team through, how many midfielders have you seen up in support of the front two lately?
A forward line in August that had me wetting my lips now in October has me wetting my pants!, Torres is a very good player and yes we miss him but just look at the options without him, Kuyt who came to us with a twenty odd goal a season reputation just isn’t a striker and it says to me just how poor the Dutch league is at the moment and if one more person uses the excuse that ‘he works hard’!, we signed him to score goals not build a bloody house! Mr Voronin I am afraid is looking like the twenty eight year old free transfer bargain he is, except for the bargain part obviously! I honestly would have preferred to keep Pongolle or God for another season as they would have offered so much more and wouldn’t have kept running into Kuyt half as much either!

Now I have ripped our team to bits the positives…..errrrr the pies in the Kop café are alright!         Only joking a bit of humour is good for morale.

We can still qualify for the knockout stages of the Champions league, we are fourth in the league not too distant from the top and frankly all that is wrong with a lot of the players I mentioned is confidence and a good run of form which I believe will start on Sunday against Arsenal will certainly go a long way to rectifying that.
Rafa still has my confidence but his tactics and team selections do leave me bemused at times but hey he’s a lot wiser and gets a lot more money than me for making those decisions. Finally we do still need defensive cover a decent winger and a goal scorer not a hard worker but we all know that anyway don’t we?

Shanks would be turning in his grave at that performance tonight.

Where's the passion? I don't really know what to say about tonight, except that I am very disappointed with the team overall,, I have sat and read what everyone has written tonight, agree with some, disagree with others!!

I just feel that there is a complete lack of confidence running through the whole team, which is affecting everybody, once we get back to winning ways , which would be good to start with a thrashing of the Arsenal on Sunday, although after tonight's performance it's looking just a little bit doubtful, the lads will certainly need to raise their game.

I really thought that we'd be up for this game tonight, after beating the bluenoses last Saturday, but there was just nothing in that game tonight that was even remotely memorable, maybe the players can't be arsed with the Champions League, they certainly looked to me like they couldn't be arsed......too much money!!!! I think if I'd have been Rafa tonight I'd have told them that you don't get a penny tonight unless you win this game, maybe I am being too harsh........but Liverpool have a love affair with the Champions League, and it just won't seem right if we go out so soon......but we certainly have left ourselves a mountain to climb.
Let's just hope we can pull ourselves out of this mini/massive (whichever way you want to look at it) slump, and kick start against Arsenal on Sunday.

COME ON LIVERPOOL       ALL TRUE REDS ARE BEHIND YOU     WE CAN DO IT      IN RAFA WE TRUST

Agree with a lot of what you say here mate.

Too much football. Too much money. Too little passion. Too many egos = DISASTER. ALWAYS.

World class man-management skills are asked for now - Rafa step-up fella.

It is simple....if we cant defeat poor teams by 3 or 4 goals, we dont deserve do be champions. Arsenal and the mancs are punishing teams, and why cant we do that???
We continue to play poorly....now its evident, the absence of Agger is a factor, and same with Alonso....
Hyypia is clearly not good enough anymore....
I've never been so disgusted in my life.....I was upset that we didnt win the champions league 5-6 months ago.....I was very angry when we lost the merseyside derby last season 3-0.....but ive had enough, and this has really pissed me off...many things have to change at that club, beginning with Rafa pulling his finger out of his ass, swollowing his pride and brigning back Paco....Secondly, getting rid of atleast 3-4 players in january, and bringing in some key position players....a winger, a centre back, and another striker....

Top post. Looks like I have somebody who wants to share my "Pako drum"...

I've told you all before...this team is not capable to challenge for anything this year....until those YANKS sack RAFA we won't win anything....I'm hoping the team will get thrash by Arsene team this weekend.......HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

EddieC go apply for pakos job right now!!! you seem to know your sh*t and you look like god himself so that should be enough to get your foot in the door and start talking sence to Rafa!

Parry's timing of Pako leaving was a very bad judgement call - he is Rafa's boss after all.

I begin to think that Rafa must of said it's me or him - which is NOT good... My gut feel is that a couple of more bad results in the Prem and and out the CL ... and Rafa would be the one leaving us soon, of his own accord. He had done it before - Valencia.

Imagine the positive impact at Melwood if Rafa and Pako made up this week and he was re-introduced to the players... then I woke up!

Sack RAFA...Sack RAFA...Sack RAFA...Sack RAFA...Sack RAFA

tw*t

My last post re Sami before the game yesterday - I must be mistic megs son...

He can still really contribute this season (no doubt), but I honestly feel he can't put more than one Quality performance in a week/10 days. Asking more from him than that - at the highest level of club football in the world is not doing our glory-aspirations justice and is being a tad unfair on him personally.

If AA still unfit Hobbs to have a baptism of Anfield fire on Sunday... surely.

Leto in for Finnan... big risk, but yesterday Steve was an embarrasment to himself and the club... and I think he is probably injured - or the hostile atmosphere "broke" him.

I repeat, I feel the Besiktas fans were superb and a credit to the their club. Wow.

Top post. Looks like I have somebody who wants to share my "Pako drum"...

Spot on mate....I'm a man of facts, if not facts, highly correlation facts. There has been something absent in this squad ever since:
1) Paco's departure
2) Alonso's and Agger's injuries
Ever since these have been missing, the team has never been the same....it is evident in our play...Rafa has never made stupid/irrational and somewhat clueless management decisions...So why this season has he begun to do that??

Too much football. Too much money. Too little passion. Too many egos = DISASTER. ALWAYS.

World class man-management skills are asked for now - Rafa step-up fella.

Its not about too much money.... We only made one massive summer signing this season, big deal mate, that doesnt mean anything.... Nando has proved himself, and he, by all means does NOT have an ego.
Is there too much money at Chelsea and Real Madrid?? Offcourse there is, they have more money so solve world poverty...and you know what, they still perform and kill sides on match day....they play an attractive brand of football....
We have NO ego's in this team....name them if that's the case....

We have no money compared to those big teams...

Also....i read this on an earlier post on a different thread, pitty i cant find it...Rafa is not like a friend with the players, he appears very cold, and not there for the players on a personal level. Paco, was like a friend to the players...he was there for them if they had any personal issues, and was very approachable...

The one difference is this....our team is NOT BALANCED. And maybe Rafa should really think about who he lets go, and who he buys in january....
With a tripod, if one leg is shorter than the other 2, it falls over, or it cant be used to for its actual purpose. This squad is very much like this...

Spot on mate....I'm a man of facts, if not facts, highly correlation facts. There has been something absent in this squad ever since:
1) Paco's departure
2) Alonso's and Agger's injuries
Ever since these have been missing, the team has never been the same....it is evident in our play...Rafa has never made stupid/irrational and somewhat clueless management decisions...So why this season has he begun to do that??
 

Its not about too much money.... We only made one massive summer signing this season, big deal mate, that doesnt mean anything.... Nando has proved himself, and he, by all means does NOT have an ego.
Is there too much money at Chelsea and Real Madrid?? Offcourse there is, they have more money so solve world poverty...and you know what, they still perform and kill sides on match day....they play an attractive brand of football....
We have NO ego's in this team....name them if that's the case....

We have no money compared to those big teams...

Also....I read this on an earlier post on a different thread, pitty I cant find it...Rafa is not like a friend with the players, he appears very cold, and not there for the players on a personal level. Paco, was like a friend to the players...he was there for them if they had any personal issues, and was very approachable...

The one difference is this....our team is NOT BALANCED. And maybe Rafa should really think about who he lets go, and who he buys in january....
With a tripod, if one leg is shorter than the other 2, it falls over, or it cant be used to for its actual purpose. This squad is very much like this...

Fair enough - point taken re egos - I was talking about top flight football in general...

I agree Nando hasn't got an ego - top class bloke off the field.

By the way. I'm still p*****d off.  

I wish all the liverpool players would stop telling me that they were unlucky.  I don't think the goalkeeper made more than 3 saves.  Unlucky is when you are flagged offside, when you weren't or you score a perfect goal and a free kick is given for an earlier incident.

I'm not going to call for Rafa's head.  But I do believe that the board must ask questions.  

I put this earlier.  T Henry admitted that losing the champions league final affected Arsenal for months (About Christmas time).  Could this be the problem?  or do we all think that Pako's departure and our lack of form are connected?  

My last post re Sami before the game yesterday - I must be mistic megs son...

He can still really contribute this season (no doubt), but I honestly feel he can't put more than one Quality performance in a week/10 days. Asking more from him than that - at the highest level of club football in the world is not doing our glory-aspirations justice and is being a tad unfair on him personally.

If AA still unfit Hobbs to have a baptism of Anfield fire on Sunday... surely.

Leto in for Finnan... big risk, but yesterday Steve was an embarrasment to himself and the club... and I think he is probably injured - or the hostile atmosphere "broke" him.

I repeat, I feel the Besiktas fans were superb and a credit to the their club. Wow.

Don,  I have been agreeing to much of what you have been saying.  But Leto in for Finnan!!  Leto is a Left-sided midfielder. Not a right-sided defender/wingback