Ludogorets Razgrad 2-2 Liverpool: In Game and Post Match Dirty Sheet

Stoke is going to be a lot harder and I fear Hughes will just put men behind the ball and we'll struggle to score.

Don't think that'll happen, have you seen Stoke this season? They actually play football these days, and to be honest, with our defence, I wouldn't be surprised if Hughes sets out his team to attack and be aggressive from the word go to win. Lucas needs to keep his place because the defence needs all the protection it can get.

Did anyone hear Brendan Rodgers' post-match interview. 

Is he taking the F***ing piss?

i think he's too into all this psychology and team building crap that the new crop of supervisors and managers in the workplace have to spout out, like hippies or something.
Everything is great and wow man everyone's doing great, it's a way of lying to yourself, he needs to just act normal and get real, start being a boss.
I found it strange that the interviewer after the match wasn't full of ill will though it was a pleasant change, it was positive from him, are you glad things are turning around etc? I think that was the gist of what he asked Rodgers and Lambert/Henderson.

Thought Lucas was fantastic tonight I hate to think what would have happened with Gerrard in that role.

PS why the F**k can't Rodgers see when Stevie is knackered!

My motm, he looks better than he has for a long time when we've seen him this year.

You're having a joke.

Other than the assist he was awful tonight. It's not even a debate. Not sure how you can say he was dangerous. Every time he got in a position to do something he fell down, made a horrible pass or allowed himself to get bullied off the ball.

Piss poor.

Have to disagree slightly there fella. Firstly, his performance was an improvement on Crystal Palace where he was indeed "piss poor" but tonight he was the only player who ran at them with the ball. He was our only genuine threat from midfield. He worked tirelessly for the team and tracked back on many occasions and put a shift in. Granted his end product isn't there yet this season but he did make a nice assist for Henderson which was the result of him running at them with the ball. Something none of our players offered, or could do.

I can't believe he got hooked and Gerrard stayed on the pitch in fairness, the captain looked fu**ed and didn't really have the impact many had anticipated playing higher up the pitch.

As for the defense, well bring back Traore, Josemi and Kvarme. All is forgiven!

Got to love some of the back page headlines in today's papers:

"BLOWN IT" Liverpool let lead slop and must beat Basel (Daily Star)

Think somebody should tell 'em that the situation hasn't changed and that we'd have to beat Basel regardless.

Got to love some of the back page headlines in today's papers:

"BLOWN IT" Liverpool let lead slop and must beat Basel (Daily Star)

Think somebody should tell 'em that the situation hasn't changed and that we'd have to beat Basel regardless.

some might want to tell some of our "fans" first. 

Really?


Agree or disagree I still think people have the right to criticise both the manager and the players  performance after the start to the season we have had.

I'm not trying to start a fight, but if you read my post in full, you can see I question what is going on too. Its just that some of
the comments on here are nothing but personal attacks on individuals who only a few months ago we thought where the best in
the world. And we are their supporters?

Question the tactics yes, call Brendan a moron no. Thats how I see it. If he gets it wrong then he will have to go but I hope that
day never comes, he turns it around wins the league and we all talk about the days when he nearly got fired and laugh at the
idea.

Some of the posts nearly seem to want him and the players to fail so he can get fired, its an attitude I haven't seen since
Hodgson was here and I hate seeing it at our club.

I'm not trying to start a fight, but if you read my post in full, you can see I question what is going on too. Its just that some of
the comments on here are nothing but personal attacks on individuals who only a few months ago we thought where the best in
the world. And we are their supporters?

Question the tactics yes, call Brendan a moron no. Thats how I see it. If he gets it wrong then he will have to go but I hope that
day never comes, he turns it around wins the league and we all talk about the days when he nearly got fired and laugh at the
idea.

Some of the posts nearly seem to want him and the players to fail so he can get fired, its an attitude I haven't seen since
Hodgson was here and I hate seeing it at our club.

Saw it when Rafa was here too mate. Remember the booing of the draw against the Hammers that took us top of the league.

Sadly we have a big element of these kinds of fairweather fans at the club; ready to stick the boot in at any opportunity and convinced that they are entitled to success because of our history.

Game was ill-fated from the line-up.Starting Allen,Lucas and Henderson at the same time was a defensive call.Playing defense to "Ludogorets"?And when you need a hard win?Bizarre.Lallana can´t apparently be trusted to perform against even this team,neither Can or Coutinho...Ominous...

And so the obvious and expected happens;we strain to attack and only manage 2 goals,1 a gift.But what was honestly shocking was how defense-minded  the team was.Deploy all the DM´s you want,but have them scoop up the ball and press,have them create attack.What we saw was the whole team dropping back,the entire 11 behind the midline,inside the box defending.It was like we were playing Real Madrid but if we were leading 1-0 with 5 minutes to go.Jamie Carragher sharply pointed out Coutinho´s movements vs Crystal Palace,showing a generalised defensive behaviour,such as dropping back to receive the ball instead of standing your ground or pressing forward.Seeing these exact same patterns for 2 games in a row against Crystal Palace and then Ludogorets is inmensly worrying.

About justifying being more defensive in midfield to make up for a leaky defense...well last season we had an offensive approach which almost got us the prize by compensating for a hole of a defense.So now dropping back and turning our midfield into defense with an absurdly lessened strikeforce...Don´t see it working.We still concede and goals will be difficult to come by like this...Only way out is through.

Attack.Have Lallana,Can,Coutinho,Gerrard up front (even if it means having to play Lucas to compensate for back 4) feeding Lambert,Borini,Sturridge...This is the only way out.Sitting these players out while continually fielding the unbelievably irrelevant Allen is inadmissible.We´re doing ourselves in with this lineup but more than anything with the mentality.Watching Liverpool being pressed by a horribly misfiring Bulgarian team that had desire and nothing else,after watching Crystal Palace do the same...

We need to get our spirit back.The way we were playing last season we could have arranged Lambert in there I´m sure,probably Borini.But dipping in form and reverting to defending?Not fielding attack-minded players?Is it a form problem or is it tactical to have these players benched?Why are they there if we´re not subbing them in?Why does BR insist on late 80 min changes?Why is Joe Allen still playing?

Positives:

Sterling was attack minded and was the most energetic on the pitch.Lost the ball and was out-manned throughout,could be overplayed.Anyhow,his mindset should be template for the team.The only acceptable reason to not start him next game would be to rest him,kid runs his socks off,always.

Again Lambert scoring at the slightest oportunity.A specialist at scoring early and with first touches.This man is the antithesis of Balotelli (#If they had told me 3 months earlier...),we must play to him.

Manquillo was lively,good pressure when defending.Still we can´t have only the really young ones show energy,hunger.What we´re going through is also psychological,they must all wake up or nothing will change.

I'm not trying to start a fight, but if you read my post in full, you can see I question what is going on too. Its just that some of
the comments on here are nothing but personal attacks on individuals who only a few months ago we thought where the best in
the world. And we are their supporters?

The majority are not bitchy, personal attacks but informed comment on a player's performance over an extended period and contribution to the cause.
Of course credit is given when earned but when that scenario does not apply are we to act like the sycophants down the Lancs and sing the praises of none-performers?
Our status in the Prem tells the story, idiotic comment and wind ups are par for the course yet still irrelevant; under-performers who refuse to up their game should be despatched.

Question the tactics yes, call Brendan a moron no. Thats how I see it. If he gets it wrong then he will have to go but I hope that
day never comes, he turns it around wins the league and we all talk about the days when he nearly got fired and laugh at the idea.

Anybody disrespecting the manager in such a way would be brought to order and rightfully so.
BR is faced with more problems than which forum thread to choose, Rome and for that matter Anfield was not built in a day.

Some of the posts nearly seem to want him and the players to fail so he can get fired, its an attitude I haven't seen since Hodgson was here and I hate seeing it at our club.

To compare BR's tenure in any respect to that of Hodgson is ludicrous.
It appears you were not fully in touch with the horror and humiliation that man and his mentors heaped on this club, something nobody wants to contemplate ever again.

To compare BR's tenure in any respect to that of Hodgson is ludicrous.
It appears you were not fully in touch with the horror and humiliation that man and his mentors heaped on this club, something nobody wants to contemplate ever again.

You are making the same point as me and I was completely in touch. Hodgson was a ludicrous appointment and a disaster from start
to finish, his attitude alone was enough to move him on.

I'm not comparing the too, merely saying I hated how he made, us, the fans behave. I don't want to see us slipping into that with
Brendan. Like I posted above, if things don't work and he has to go then so be it, but it will be a very sad day. Not so with Hodgson, it
was total relief.

Our miserable season continues. A MUST WIN was always going to be at best a draw.

Now we have to beat Basel to go through.

Easy. Winning any F***ing game would be nice.

Let's not beat around the bush, 2-2 against Ludogorets is a poor result to say the least. I know that the difference between a win and a draw meant little last night however we should not let that distract us from the fact we were poor yet again against a team that we should be beating.

Firstly I thought the lineup was wrong yet again. What ever happened to the saying "You're only as good as your last performance". I'm fed up with players being placed in the squad on name alone.

Secondly, the substitutions made over the last few games have been woeful. I mean anyone who has watched us this season could see we needed a 3rd goal. So Brendan decides to bring on Moreno. I can't see the working out behind it. If we were trying to hold 2-1 then why not bring on Can? I want to understand the reasoning behind it but I just can't.

Lastly, Simon Mignolet. The man has zero confidence in his defence, zero control of his area and his distribution is painful to watch. He's actually a good shotstopper when he acts instinctively but give him two options and he'll generally choose the worst.

Secondly, the substitutions made over the last few games have been woeful. I mean anyone who has watched us this season could see we needed a 3rd goal. So Brendan decides to bring on Moreno. I can't see the working out behind it. If we were trying to hold 2-1 then why not bring on Can? I want to understand the reasoning behind it but I just can't.

Have to disagree with this

We did not have to chase the game for a 3rd goal, I thought he had learned his lesson when we pressed against Chelsea last season and ultimately lost the league as a result. My beef was bringing on a defender and playing him as an attacking wing back when all we needed to do was play out the game and keep possession

To compare BR's tenure in any respect to that of Hodgson is ludicrous.
It appears you were not fully in touch with the horror and humiliation that man and his mentors heaped on this club, something nobody wants to contemplate ever again.

Agreed  100%  ...  but the traits are starting to surface Stu , with Rodger's soundbites.
Not a good indicator.
All it belies is someone who knows that he is out of his depth and has been found out.

To be honest, a draw isn't as awful as what some are making out. We should be going there and winning but it wouldn't have made much difference either way (it would have been a nightmare if Basel had beaten Madrid though).

Ludo had to beat us to have any chance of going through. Until last night, they still had a slim chance. So we have in effect, knocked them out and also kept our chances alive.

Ludo are out. It doesn't matter if they beat Madrid 50-0. If Basel win or draw at anfield then they have more points than Ludo so they would go through, and if we beat Basel at Anfield and Ludo win in Madrid then we will be level on points but rather than goal difference it goes on head-head and we have four points from Ludo so it would see us through.

No matter what, we would have had to beat Basel anyway - we couldn't have drawn with them and gone through. So nothing has changed.

Regarding our performance - we were sloppy but there were some positives.

I'm surprised Stevie is getting so much stick on here. It wasn't a man of the match performance by any means but I thought he played a lot better than he has been. He put Sterling clean through who should have buried it and put us 3-1 up.  His passing was a bit better.

Thought Lucas did well.

Lambert put a decent shift in too.

Once again I was disappointed with the usual suspects - Mignolet, Johnson, Manquillo, Skrtel.

I was also disappointed with Brendan for taking Sterling off trying to see the game out. The game was crying out for coutinho in my opinion and with them pushing forward we would caught them on the break with him on the pitch.

Poor performance overall but not a terrible result like some are suggesting.

Have to disagree with this

We did not have to chase the game for a 3rd goal, I thought he had learned his lesson when we pressed against Chelsea last season and ultimately lost the league as a result. My beef was bringing on a defender and playing him as an attacking wing back when all we needed to do was play out the game and keep possession

Our inability to defend almost dictates that we need a two goal cushion ( for me at least). I'd of been content if we did defend deep if we used the substitutes to make the job easier. Brendan had a simple choice to make, go for the extra goal and put Lallana/Borini on or all hands to the pump to defend what we had in which case use subs that improve the defence. What we ended up with was a tactically inept substitution that offered no advantage to either cause.

I think it's got to a point now were Rodgers is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't in regards to team selection and substitutions. If we win that game last night everyone is relieved at how we managed to come from behind to scrape a 1-2 win - incidentally the same result Real Madrid got who themselves came from 1-0 down to win the game. Ludogorets should not be underestimated simple because they're not a big European name because they're a team very much in form.

Because we didn't win it his team selection is wrong, his substitutions were wrong, people second guessing him without looking at the match in the wider context of our respective seasons, the fact it's a European away game or the fact that Basel predictably lost - and let's be clear here, anyone who thinks Real will not want to win this competition with a 100% record knows nothing about football - we're no worse off than we were at kick off. What's more, there are positives to take such as the fact we went away and scored twice, not something we've done very often this season, nor the fact that for the first time in a long time when we conceded the player's heads didn't go down but they dug in and got something out of the game and but for a mistake, could have won it. Some fans need to take a step back and regain some perspective. You wanted fight, you wanted character and we got it last night.

Agreed  100%  ...  but the traits are starting to surface Stu , with Rodger's soundbites.
Not a good indicator.
All it belies is someone who knows that he is out of his depth and has been found out.

Traits is by definition a none specific term Skip, in the same way that the general business process applied by NESV has been compared in a none specific broad sense to that of H&G.
Before anyone demands the reintroduction of the negative mantra award I should mention the premise has been made more than once on these boards.
FSG as they are now known are a business concern and as such are slaves to the markets, unless there is some emotional content as apparently there is with the Red Sox the owners will treat LFC as purely a business proposition, in that sense a comparison with H&G is viable.
The manner of conducting that proposition is where the comparison is faulted, the initial premise is tangible LFC is purely a business venture to which FSG apply their own code of conduct and time scale for success or otherwise.
In a sense the traits therefore that were prevalent during the H&G horror show are still in existence to an extent, the manager is still subject to financial constraint and boardroom meddling to whatever extent.

Oh dear oh dear, that Bulgairan team were bloody awful, and thank god they were, otherwise they would have beaten us. How on earth a football genius who knows so much about football can think that clinging onto a 1 goal lead with 20 minutes left when you have the worst defence any Liverpool team has ever had is a good idea is quite simply beyond me. And then to make it even better he takes off our only goal threat, despite his inability to score any goals even 1 on 1, to let the opposition increase the pressure even more!! That equaliser was bloody obvious to everyone bar our esteemed genius manager!!

I have come to the conclusion that Brendan is either really F***ing stupid or wants a nice payoff so he can toddle off to Spain and practice his tiki taki bollocks on some other poor unfortunate team.

Have to disagree with this

We did not have to chase the game for a 3rd goal, I thought he had learned his lesson when we pressed against Chelsea last season and ultimately lost the league as a result. My beef was bringing on a defender and playing him as an attacking wing back when all we needed to do was play out the game and keep possession

Comparing this team and last seasons team is a waste of time mate. I am beginning to think it was all a very lucid, wet dream

Olympiakos.
2004
Needing to score 3 goals to get through.

So, it could be worse and none of us know what the future holds.

I voted for Mignolet. Just because I was howling at the first goal. I can't stop laughing at how sh*t he is.