Liverpool 1:1 FC Basel. In game & post match discussion.

Wow it's amazing how personally insulting people get when the results are just not going our way

That was a shocking result. I am an ever optimist and have been believing that we're just going through a perfect storm, which is still the case to some extent, but two things really worry me.

1 - Defence has HUGE problems. BR  played two holding midfielders and left Couts on the bench. I'd say that was because he has absolutely no confidence in it - rightly so - but why after half a season we still look so shambolic at the back? Are we doing no defensive coaching? Has he got no answers other than playing extra DMs? Why play Lovren and Skrtl together and leave Toure and Sakho out? So long as the defence is treated like a plague zone, it will undermine any possible recovery

2 - Players' attitude and confidence. Nobody covered themselves in glory but we looked something like what we're capable of in the last 20 minutes, so why aren't they playing with that urgency, aggression and attacking mentality more often? They've shown they can do it but they often fail to do so. It suggests there is something wrong with the team itself. Perhaps they've lost confidence in the manager, or the system, or there's division in the camp. Whatever it is, it looks more than just plain old loss of confidence.

We desparately need a striker now, it's urgent, but the above two areas are really scary.

Might as well throw in for good measure...I'd rather not be in EL at all.

One thing is for sure apart from the rendition of YNWA every game the supporters aren't the 12th man, it's a nervous cesspit, getting out sung by opposition fans every single game, are the mics more amped towards the other fans? Maybe. But, F**k that for a thing any more.

I only caught the first 5 minutes of the second half, can anybody tell me briefly how we did using the false 9? Did we create more chances and look more positive than with somebody like Lambert up front. Thanks

Yes we looked 3 times better even after Markovic getting sent off, he came on and looked our best player.
We aren't Spain and we should never be in the position to play without any striker, just weird.

Finally had time to contemplate the game after getting home.
I think some odd choices in the starting XI, surprised that Enrique started a tad surprised that Allen started too, whilst he is good defensively on whichever side he's on he offers virtually nothing going forward and we could have really done with Coutinho or Lallana starting in his place.
Fair enough though he made the right substitutions at the right times.

Unfortunate to get the red card for Markovic, seemed to be a bit of a spark when he came on, whether we would have won if he woulda stayed on is another question. Done well to up the intensity towards the end but a little too much too late for me.

Oh and by the way,
the kids are alright.

My ratings:

Mignolet: No chance with the goal and did little else wrong. I do wish though we'd drop the policy of playing it out at all costs, rank silliness it is at times (obviously he's been told to do it). 6/10.

Enrique: Obviously picked for his experience but looked well off the pace. 4/10.

Lovren: The future captain of the club was my MOM, and despite the dislike many have developed for him over his time at Liverpool which stops them seeing it, didn't put a foot wrong. 7/10.

Skrtel: Did very well, and like his partner did so despite the two holding midfielders providing next to zero protection. Even did Ok when he went forward. 6/10

Johnson: Not too bad, looks like a player who's playing for a contract somewhere next season. 5/10.

Allen: Inneffective, ponderous and lost. 3/10.

Lucas: Exposed unfortunately against a good side who moved it well. his worst game since he returned to the team. 4/10.

Henderson: Twice as good as he was in his last appearance, probably even better than that. 5/10 (that tells you how bad he was last time).

Gerrard: Still our best player but free kick aside didn't quite match his cameo against Sunderland. 7/10.

Sterling: Being our only attacking outlet is bound to get a bit tiring at times, but he did well. 7/10

Lambert: Brutal. 3/10.


Subs:

Moreno: Has unbelievable pace, but at the moment little else. 5/10.

Markovic: Yet more flashes from the kid. IMHO has to play against the Mancs. 7/10

Coutinho: Should have started, much like Markovic IMHO. 6/10     
 

We played some of our best football all season when we had 10 men !!.. WTF !

May as well play Skrtel up front from now on as you've got no f**ker else who can score part from Captain Marvel....

Glen Johnson was woeful, again !.. it was his fault for their goal, another kamikaze square ball to Lucas..

We blew it in the first half.. and why the F**k Lallana and Couthino didn't start in a must win CL game is beyond belief...

Mignolet is sh*te !... Sometimes I wonder if he is actually a Goalkeeper. his distribution was Sunday league stuff and once again he casually F***ing passes it out to the nearest Red shirt surrounded by Basel players..

Markovic is a Fanny... £20 million quids worth of Fanny !!..

I'm slowly losing the will to live.....

My ratings:

Mignolet: No chance with the goal and did little else wrong. I do wish though we'd drop the policy of playing it out at all costs, rank silliness it is at times (obviously he's been told to do it). 6/10.

Enrique: Obviously picked for his experience but looked well off the pace. 4/10.

Lovren: The future captain of the club was my MOM, and despite the dislike many have developed for him over his time at Liverpool which stops them seeing it, didn't put a foot wrong. 7/10.

Skrtel: Did very well, and like his partner did so despite the two holding midfielders providing next to zero protection. Even did Ok when he went forward. 6/10

Johnson: Not too bad, looks like a player who's playing for a contract somewhere next season. 5/10.

Allen: Inneffective, ponderous and lost. 3/10.

Lucas: Exposed unfortunately against a good side who moved it well. his worst game since he returned to the team. 4/10.

Henderson: Twice as good as he was in his last appearance, probably even better than that. 5/10 (that tells you how bad he was last time).

Gerrard: Still our best player but free kick aside didn't quite match his cameo against Sunderland. 7/10.

Sterling: Being our only attacking outlet is bound to get a bit tiring at times, but he did well. 7/10

Lambert: Brutal. 3/10.


Subs:

Moreno: Has unbelievable pace, but at the moment little else. 5/10.

Markovic: Yet more flashes from the kid. IMHO has to play against the Mancs. 7/10

Coutinho: Should have started, much like Markovic IMHO. 6/10     
 

Pretty accurate summation, but I personally disagree with regards to Lucas.  It was his worst performance of recent weeks, but he was still the best of our CM trio.  He should keep his place in the starting 11 while Allen and Hendo both need to be dropped.  In this scenario, the question becomes:  "How do you get the team to play well with both Lucas and Gerrard starting?"  They don't seem to be able to play well as a CM pair, so perhaps the answer is to also drop Lambert, push Stevie even further forward, and allow him to play as a false 9.  This would allow for more creativity in midfield and attacking intent from the wings.  Maybe something like:

Lucas
Lallana  -   Coutinho
Markovic - Gerrard - Sterling

Lucas provides plenty of defensive cover, while Lallana and Coutinho both bring plenty of energy to the midfield.  After how lackluster we've been in attack this year, I personally think it'd be worth a try.... what have we got to lose?

Not gonna lie, I'm bricking it thinking about how we will play this weekend against the Mancs..... Hope we get our sh*t together!! I can't F***ing stand losing to them 

Brendan has a problem managing a large squad, I think.

He is quoted as saying that he "Bulked Up " the squad in the summer.

Brendan has a problem managing .  Full stop.

Just one more thing:

We are all sat here talking about how poorly the team played etc, but there was one other big issue that we were up against last night, and that is---Basel were outstanding.

Especially in the first half.  They played us off the pitch.  I haven't seen a team performance like that in a while.  Even better to watch than when Madrid played us at Anfield.  Basel were finding little triangles, playing it long, playing it short, it was really top level football.  And what impressed me most was how they defended.  Rodgers always says we "defend as a team," but Basel are the ones who REALLY defended as a team.  They would lose the ball and then everyone would switch gears into "defence mode," even the attackers would run back to help out.  Their back four seemed to have a telepathic understanding of where every cross was going, seemed like there was someone there ready to block it without even breaking a sweat.

I remember a couple of times in the second half in particular when their players just came up to ours when we were in possession and just.... took the ball off of us.  There was one time early in the second half when Lucas passed the ball to Stevie, and when he turned to go forward, Schär was right there waiting for him; he took the ball and then bam, they were on the counter.  I'm not talking about a sliding tackle; no, he just stood up straight and took the ball from Stevie's feet like he was a child.  I haven't seen something so casual in a really long time.

Anyway.  You have to give them a lot of credit for how they played, especially in the first half.  They were a well-oiled machine when in possession, organized and committed in defence without ever parking the bus.  They are a very, very good side.

Don't know where to begin after that.  When I saw the starting team, I was quite puzzled to say the least.  In a game we had to win Coutinho or Lallana (and probably both) had to start for me (I guess that Lallana must be carrying some kind of injury to be getting as little playing time as he is).  Enrique is short of match fitness and looked totally off the pace.

Then we start and it looks like we are in a pre-season game.  The lack of desire is really quite worrying - we are slow and ponderous at best.  Its only in the last 10 mins that we actually looked anything like a team that needed to win, and it was too late by then.

Substitutions were a bit odd to me also.  Bringing on Moreno at half time is a waste of a substitution in my eyes - either start him, or accept that a more attacking player will have a greater influence on the game.  Markovic has done nothing yet in a red shirt and was a surprise introduction - he then starts to look like he might have a bit of something about him for 15 minutes and then ridiculously gets himself sent off.  As soft as it was I don't think the ref had much choice - what on earth was Markovic doing anyway and why.

Finally though, what a very good performance from Basel - I thought they were superior in every position and deserved to go through ahead of us.  It is a sad day indeed when we can be outplayed at home by a Swiss team.

In my first post in this thread before the match started I said  strange line up but we have to support those chosen
1st. half-   I don't know if it was , the players, the game plan, fitness, game strategy, the weather. what ever it was it did not work,
 it seemed  esp. defence and midfield,,they just did not want the ball at their feet, they just passed it to the nearest team mate even if he was pressed by a basle player, ex. mignolet passing the ball to lucas when the latter had 2 players near him , sometimes we made 10/15 passes between the back 4 and mignolet without gaining 2 yards on the pitch
Don't know if BR wanted to rest some players for the sunday match, but FFS this was a MUST  win game in that compettion,  and if we go with the same attitude on sunday I am afraid we will be battered and we all hate the sound of that
 
I don't believe that Luis leaving made all the difference to our style of play
yes there is sturridge missing too atm, but taking the starting line up, apart from lovren they were the same players we all were amazed how they ALL played well and fast onetouch football and you cannot argue on the new signings ,because they were ALL on the bench
 something is very much wrong in the dressing room,now if its player/manager , player/player , issue or something else I don't know but its evident for me,  It seems that not all the squad and staff are pulling the same rope,
  one example, Can anyone say what is the issue that Borini has not been  in the squad(not even on the bench) for so long and we have ONLY Lambert as a striker and NO back up on the bench, can't recall that FB is injured
    I don't know what it is but something is wrong and it has to be dealt with FAST !! because we are going to have one of the worst season we can remember if we don't solve  whatever the real problem is
  Normally I am very optimistic, but there is limit when you start looking at  the pessimistic side
   YNWA

This was a must win game.
Coutinho, Lallana, Markovic, Moreno.
All on the bench. Arguably that Can should have started.

Lallana and Can didn't even play!

We finished 1 point ahead of Ludogorets.

That front line of Lambert Henderson and Gerrard is pathetic. Lallana and Coutinho must be gobsmacked at the ammount of game time they're getting.
Can see Courinho leaving soon!

I watched the game this morning, knowing that we went out. I have to agree the initial line-up looked like BR didn't know whether to attack or not. The manager has to take the blame here, we looked like the ones playing for a draw, they way we started invited them on to us, they reminded me of Liverpool from last season the way they pressed, wtf has happened to our pressing as a team?

To wait 5 years and then go out like this is a sick joke.

1 win in 6 games, -4 goal difference.

Just one more thing:

We are all sat here talking about how poorly the team played etc, but there was one other big issue that we were up against last night, and that is---Basel were outstanding.

Especially in the first half.  They played us off the pitch.  I haven't seen a team performance like that in a while.  Even better to watch than when Madrid played us at Anfield.  Basel were finding little triangles, playing it long, playing it short, it was really top level football.  And what impressed me most was how they defended.  Rodgers always says we "defend as a team," but Basel are the ones who REALLY defended as a team.  They would lose the ball and then everyone would switch gears into "defence mode," even the attackers would run back to help out.  Their back four seemed to have a telepathic understanding of where every cross was going, seemed like there was someone there ready to block it without even breaking a sweat.

I remember a couple of times in the second half in particular when their players just came up to ours when we were in possession and just.... took the ball off of us.  There was one time early in the second half when Lucas passed the ball to Stevie, and when he turned to go forward, Schär was right there waiting for him; he took the ball and then bam, they were on the counter.  I'm not talking about a sliding tackle; no, he just stood up straight and took the ball from Stevie's feet like he was a child.  I haven't seen something so casual in a really long time.

Anyway.  You have to give them a lot of credit for how they played, especially in the first half.  They were a well-oiled machine when in possession, organized and committed in defence without ever parking the bus.  They are a very, very good side.

It's easy to look outstanding if the opposition are so poor. As in as we were first half.

I watched the game this morning, knowing that we went out. I have to agree the initial line-up looked like BR didn't know whether to attack or not. The manager has to take the blame here, we looked like the ones playing for a draw, they way we started invited them on to us, they reminded me of Liverpool from last season the way they pressed, wtf has happened to our pressing as a team?

To wait 5 years and then go out like this is a sick joke.

1 win in 6 games, -4 goal difference.

I think BR as a learning manager in the CL basically tried to copy the Mourinho plan in these situations. 4 CM to stodge it up and break the rhythm of Basel. Unfortunately Mourinho has better players and rehearsed (if 1 dimensional) plan to transition. Even throwing Skertl up front was a Mourinho ploy (re John Terry.)

In short I really think he panicked on this one and got it completely wrong. His white teeth and new office bird have got
him thinking he's Billy big bollocks. He needs to just get on with it and stick to a plan and a style.

This was a must win game.
Coutinho, Lallana, Markovic, Moreno.
All on the bench. Arguably that Can should have started.

Lallana and Can didn't even play!

We finished 1 point ahead of Ludogorets.

Yup. Only one win, against them at Home.

Truly appalling. I'm running out of ways to defend BR.

I haven't got time to read through the previous posts today and I presume it has already been said but why on earth is BR starting two holding midfielders in a must win game at home.

It was different against Chelsea at home last season. We didn't have to win the game for starters, Chelsea are superb at parking the bus under Mourinho and they have more quality on the break than Basel.

Last night was a must win game against opposition we should be beating. A cup final at Anfield if you like. We should have gone with an attacking team and let them worry about us rather than us worry about them.

I was impressed with Basel last night though. They could have turned up and done exactly that, park the bus, but they had a proper go and wanted to win the game. They looked like scoring on every attack to me. They played the game how it should be played. Yes some of their players were time wasting play acting bas**rds but overall they played very well so credit to them and I wish them luck in the competition.

We made them look good though. The first half was arguably the worst I've seen Liverpool play under BR. The majority of the second half we were sh*t too. Very disappointing and frustrating to see us only give it a go in the last ten minutes.

Mignolet - Couple of good saves to be fair but consistently puts us under pressure by passing to the full backs or Lucas. He kicked the ball out of play half a dozen or so times. Slowed the game down a few times too. Overall, sh*t.

Johnson - sh*te first half, he did a bit better second half when he played as a left CB of three in the last 15minutes. Still not good enough for us.

Enrique - Awful. I was made up to see him start because I haven't been particularly impressed with Moreno so far, but he was awful. Really, really awful. Rightfully dragged off at half time. He won't get a game for some time now.

Skrtel - Him and Mignolet love playing 1-2's and it always results in putting pressure on us. He got caught out of position a few times and Basel got through. Against a better team we may have been punished. Didn't have a good game for me.

Lovren - He was definitely the better of the two, he defended well. One of his better games in a red shirt.

Allen - Woeful.

Lucas - Played well, broke attacks up, got a yellow that was undeserved and it meant him getting subbed later on. Always looks to play the ball forward now too, his passing sideways and backwards days are long gone.

Henderson - sh*te.

Gerrard - gave the ball away quite a few times but was one of few who wanted it and tried to make things happen. Superb free kick for the goal.

Sterling - what you expect from him really. A few good runs, looked threatening at times but no real end product. He needs to chip in with more goals and assists for us.

Lambert - sh*te. But I felt he had no service all game. We didn't play to his strengths. Its not our style but F***ing hell get balls into the box for him and give him something to attack for fucks sake.

Markovic - only on the pitch for 10mins but its the best ive seen him play for us. haven't seen the replay yet but it looked like a red from where I was sitting. in modern football as soon as you put your hand in someones face your off.

Moreno - played well when he came on. full of energy.

Coutinho - should have been brought on at half time. he should have F***ing started actually. bringing him on with 15mins to go is a joke. I gave him MOTM anyway, the team finally decided to have a go when he came on, he changed everything for us.

Brendan has a problem managing a large squad, I think.

I'm not sure that it's the size of the squad that is the issue I think it's the imbalance of it.

I was watching our summer business go on and was slightly perplexed by of at the time, I tend not to say much about transfers or potential deals as I prefer to see what they are like when they get here and how they settle in, but when signings are made I tend to have an idea of 'how' they will fit and were they will play. This summer I scratched my head and even said about the odd one, such as Markovic for example that I don't see where he gets his playing time, it's almost as if the club signed him because of how highly he is rated and that long term he 'could' be world class.. But if a player doesn't play and I didn't see where he did with the other options we have in his role then they can't develop, they tend to go backwards in development and confidence and they inevitably fail..

Brendan has got a lot of questions to answer currently about the set up and his use of the squad and I'm starting to think that he is repeating mistakes.. However I'm struggling to say who is signing the players..

Now I know some will say head final say, and that he has stated things along those lines buthe won't say anything else publicly and is careful how he words certain things.
Recently he has said things like "the club decided he was the best option"
A couple of times regarding the keeper.

The way I look at it is why would he unbalance his squad so much, why sign players that don't suit that style that back him into a corner and make him look daft.. Why sign two target men when you don't suit a target man? It makesno sense, why sign kids like Markovic when you have so many other options in front of him in his natural position?

I genuinely think he gets certain players he wants but has others 'put to him'

I said yesterday that we know we have a way of doing transfers, it's for the main part younger players with potential to develop into stars, and to counter the off experienced player who is past their best and certainly not at the peak of their powers, mostly coming here on the downward slope of their career and on reduced wages from their peak..
So realistically who is pushing that? The manager? Or the club?

The one direct person brought in by the club that there is no question about is the manager who is young and yet at his peak, with the potential to become great.. Had the owners brought in an established world class manager then he decided he wanted to do what we are doing then you couldn't put it on the owners but where we are, who they brought in it leaves me with little doubt..
If they sacked Brendan I have no doubt they bring in another manager in the same mould. So if we know that's their vision for the manager it's safe to thinks it's their vision for the playing staff.

I don't think had the manager had full control of transfers we would end up with a completely unbalanced hard to work squad..

We have no striker of note, I have been to games this season where you see a quick footed sharp minded player in the middle of the park drop a should look up and there is nothing, one stationary striker who is touch marked, so they turn in again and the quickness of the attack is gone..
Yes we have been unfortunate with Danny's injuries, but Luis going, why the f**k end up with two immobile cart horses even as back up to him? Every player in our wide positions or midfield naturally looks for the movement between the lines or the full backs, the strikers pushing their defence back to allow runners? Yet they have no options, those two up front are so slow with such lack of movement the defence pushes them up, the midfield gets congested and they have no pace in behind..
The manager said no chance on Balotelli and we ended up with him.. You know what I believed him, I don't think he wanted him but because we want that perfect moneyball signing we ran out of options and he ended up here, we lose Danny and are left with two strikers who are utterly ill suited to the rest of our squad..

Whoever designed the summers transfer business should be sacked this morning, the club will know who it was, if it was the manager he should go, but I don't believe it was, that old saying too many cooks spoil the broth, that's what's happened here, we were in a perfect position to push on this summer and the club has fu**ed that chance up well and truly.

Yes the manager has questions to answer but I tell you what he hasn't been helped, our squad isn't too big it's just unbalanced and short in key areas and swelled in others

Complete and utter f**k up by the entire 'company'


They still expect us to fork out 50 quid a week though to watch their inadequacy

Glad I've not seen a few of our recent games, especially after reading some of the posts on various threads. Most of the time, after missing a game, I read through everything, now I'm just going to hit mark all read and start afresh. Worth missing the handful of decent posts to avoid so much vitriol & venom.  I know things aren't great at the moment but sheesh.

We needed a win, we needed goals.
Our most creative players were left on the bench.
Dumbfounded.

I think man of the match is a contradiction in terms.

This was sh*te to rival the worst of the Sourness era.
To think back in 2009, who would have expected this.
Reina for Mignolet
Arbeloa for Enrique
Masch for Allen
Alonso for Henderson
Torres for Lambert
Kuyt for Lucas
Gerrard for Gerrard who looks knackered
And arguably Keane for whoever.

Add in Suarez alone from last yr, and its no surprise we have become a bad joke.

PS £10, 000 for a season ticket with "fine dining".
Comedy gold, if it wasn't such a F***ing disgrace.