Can the 3 5 2 formation save us?

Currently it's moved on to "Is this the formation that best uses the players we have".
I'd say the answer is yes. Last season we beat Bournemouth 2-0 with Suarez and Sturridge.
This season we won 3-1.

This formation allows us to play in a more dynamic way than any other we have tried so far.
It may not save our season, but it has given more signs than any other that it might.

Is right. We can't possibly play our preferred team and system with Sturridge out injured. Gotta go with the next best thing, and our attack has looked more fluid with this 3-4-3 system.

Looks like someone in the Liverpool Echo had a read of the Bayern article and the discussion on here.

Wont work.

Bournemouth (a pub side apparently) could have scored at least 5 goals purely based on the wing backs and CB's having so much space between them. Its a giant weakness. Our CB's get pulled out to the fullback position. Its so easy for the opposition to create chances that way.

Man U scored 3 against us from 3 chances. Any decent team will score against us with 3 at the back. Its a temp fix, not a long term one against good teams.

Example of the problem here
DL

Wont work.

Bournemouth (a pub side apparently) could have scored at least 5 goals purely based on the wing backs and CB's having so much space between them. Its a giant weakness. Our CB's get pulled out to the fullback position. Its so easy for the opposition to create chances that way.

Man U scored 3 against us from 3 chances. Any decent team will score against us with 3 at the back. Its a temp fix, not a long term one against good teams.

Example of the problem here
DL

It's only the 2nd game we've played it. Juventus seem to do a pretty good job at defending with this formation. It will just take time for players to learn their roles.

Also, I could pull up about 50 videos of us getting ripped to shreds while defending with a back 4. We are going to concede chances and goals in either system, but from an objective standpoint we have looked better and more threatening in attack while using the 3-4-3 than we were when playing a 4-3-3.

I've never been a fan of three at the back. I remember last season we played this away against Newcastle and lost. Scottbot noted that you lose an outlet in midfield and like we did at St.James park failed to get going in midfield and attack because we didn't have enough options in midfield and Newcastle were able to shut us down quite easily.

United have won 6 games in a row with 3-5-2 how is that failing exactly?

I don't believe they have been playing three at the back for the whole of this winning run, just the last couple of games I think.

I wouldn't play it against the gooners but I have never liked the formation, particularly in wide areas. To be honest I don't think it matters what formation we play, we are fundamentally buggered when it comes to defending, don't know if it's the coaching or the players, probably both but we never look comfortable.

Bournemouth[s 2nd team could've scored 5 goals, so no, 3 at the back won't work.

I've never been a fan of three at the back. I remember last season we played this away against Newcastle and lost. Scottbot noted that you lose an outlet in midfield and like we did at St.James park failed to get going in midfield and attack because we didn't have enough options in midfield and Newcastle were able to shut us down quite easily.

You mean Arsenal surely?

Wont work.

Bournemouth (a pub side apparently) could have scored at least 5 goals purely based on the wing backs and CB's having so much space between them. Its a giant weakness. Our CB's get pulled out to the fullback position. Its so easy for the opposition to create chances that way.

Man U scored 3 against us from 3 chances. Any decent team will score against us with 3 at the back. Its a temp fix, not a long term one against good teams.

Example of the problem here
DL

Your example highlighted another example of poor defending by Lovren rather than the issues of 343. He was ball watching rather than tracking his man.

No doubt 343 carries a huge amount of defensive responsibility on the back 3 and holding midfielders, at the moment without Sturridge if may be our best form of defence because I don't think Rodgers knows how to set up a defence.

So might as well try and outscore the opposition.

Here's an article I thought was interesting.
It's about Guardiola at Bayern, but it's the 3-4-2-1 that interests me.
Especially if it helps us beat Chelsea, which the author suggests it would be strong against.


                                Jones

                                Skrtel
                Toure                         Sakho

Henderson       Gerrard       Lucas         Markovic

               Lallana                      Coutinho
                              Sterling
                             

Interesting read. Could actually work for us with the players we have. With everyone fit and a new keeper in January, I think we could still save something this season. This would be my preferred XI in this system.

Keeper

Skrtel - Lovren - Sakho

Sterling - Gerrard - Can - Markovic

Coutinho - Lallana

Sturridge

That's a 13421 rather than a 1352.

Both have strengths and weaknesses but the point of the formation is to maximise the qualities of the players available.

The latter formation could work for us but obviously has it's flaws - the main ones being that it is weak against teams that play with width and also that it splits the team into a defensive half and an attacking half unless you have two very good players who can do both jobs playing in the holding roles. The only point of justifying that formation would be to field two exceptional strikers such as Suarez and Sturridge.

Putting up with the deficiencies of the system just so we can get Lambert and Borini on the same pitch is useless.

In terms of proven quality to last through 90 minutes I'd hazard a guess to say our best players would be:

Mignolet
Sakho
Lucas
Henderson
Markovic
Lallana
Coutinho
Sterling

After that it gets tricky. The formation therefore has to include those players and sim for a style that would suit them. Even Migs is a huge dilemma since playing an aggressive high line is very difficult with him between the posts.

One thing I would be tempted to do would be to try Lucas as the central defender in a back three. That position really benefits from a player who can either bring the ball out or who possesses a good range of penetrative vertical passing.

Yes, I was talking about the 3-4-2-1, like the one analyzed in the article posted by racerx4. Right now we don't even have one proper striker let alone 2 for the 3-5-2.

I agree with the list of players you have there to suit the formation. I would definitely give Can a go in it as well. Unfortunately, we have to do with the rest until we can get someone in in January and Sturridge comes back. An upgrade at GK is a definite must, and not just for this, but for any formation we play.

I would think that we see the same XI tomorrow as the one v Arsenal. But looking ahead to the return of Sturridge and the possible arriving of a keeper, I'd play an XI as above, maybe with Lucas or Henderson in for Gerrard.