Trending Topics

      Next match: LFC v Man Utd [Premier League] Sun 16th Dec @ 4:00 pm - Pre Match Topic
      Anfield

      Today is the 16th of December and on this date LFC's match record is P22 W10 D3 L9

      GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?

      Read 15298 times
      0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
      Son Of A Gun
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****
      • Started Topic

      • 5,136 posts | 1250 
      GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Jan 05, 2015 08:53:46 pm
      I'm writing this at half time against Wimbledon and yet another goalkeeping howler has given me food for thought.

      We all know Mignolet is terrible, we all know Jones is terrible, and sadly, Reina's form dropped like a stone. All this has happened under John Achterberg's tenure as goalkeeping coach. The goalkeepers are bad, but it's bizaarly the same mistake over and over and over again.

      What is going on in the coaching department? All over there seems to be massive issues in coaching. Brendan is a great coach - that is proven - but the others? The others seem useless.

      He's the last person I'd want to think of, but perhaps Rodgers should take a leaf from Ferguson's book? Ferguson looked way better than he really was by hiring a team of proven top class coaches. At the moment, our coaching staff is mediocre and the problems all over the field is tantamount to this.
      TheRedMosquito
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 12,200 posts | 631 
      • Elmore James got nothin' on this baby!
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #1: Jan 05, 2015 09:56:21 pm
      Achterberg is something that has been talked about, but I was always surprised it never got more attention. We saw Reina's form dip considerably under his tenure. We saw Mignolet join the club, start brilliantly, and then spiral out of control from December 2013 onwards. Jones is Jones, a backup keeper not up to Prem standard, but even then he doesn't look any better a keeper than when he joined.

      In my opinion, we need to significantly improve in this aspect of coaching. Pepe was great under Jose Ochotorena and Xavi Valero. Not so much under Achterberg. There were, of course, other mitigating factors at play (different managers, different styles of play), but I do wonder how much of a coincidence it is.
      PastorGeek
      • Not Actual Geek
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,520 posts | 256 
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #2: Jan 05, 2015 10:38:51 pm
      I dont think Migs is 'terrible' tbh.

      His confidence is shot to pieces from constant, unnecessary criticism even when he wasn't playing badly. It is part of being a goalkeeper at Liverpool in recent history. Every single goalkeeper we've had in modern times has been labeled 'crap' or terrible at some point down to a dip in form which every keeper has.

      James - was a baby when we got him, being at a big club was a shock to him, improved as he got older but alway was 'shakey' never really shook the tag off.

      Brad Friedel - Started well for us, made a couple mistakes in the odd game. Was labeled 'terrible', hounded by the media was sold and later became one of the top 10 keepers of the modern prem league era.

      Sander Westerveld - was a good keeper for us, im not even sure when he became 'crap' but it was suddenly a thing that everyone said in the media, affected his confidence, was later replaced when we got Dudek and Kirkland.

      DUDEK - I personally loved this guy, was a great keeper imo, apparently made 'mistakes' in games against basel (i used the term mistakes loosely, he basically saved some hard shots, the defense didnt clear the rebounds but pundits claimed it was a 'mistake') The truth is he was hounded out because the after david james was going into retirement the media realized there were slim pickings for the england no1 position and there was 'young english' goalkeeping prospect sitting on the liverpool bench, everything he did came under a microscope to the point where if he saved a 30 yard drive and didnt hold on to the ball it was considered 'dodgy'. He was under so much presser we tried Kirkland for a bit, but he wasnt good either. Eventually was replace by Pepe when Rafa Came in.

      Reina - Another great one. I believe all the managerial (rafa leaving) / ownership changes + Torres leaving affected him. He did ok , but it was clear his form/ enthusiasm had dipped. He could have played though the bad form, but his insanely high wages + bad form meant he had to be moved on under the new regime.

      Basically what im saying is. For some reason we write goalkeepers off too quickly. One bad spell for our keepers and we want to get rid instantly. Im not sure where this came from.

      Keepers from other teams have been RUBBISH and they play through it and become stronger. DeGea was written off heavily when he first came, Szczęsny was roasted by arsenal fans, but has played on. Just a couple of examples i can think of, off the top of my head.

      That being said, i think Migs confidence is so low at this point , there may be no coming back. But i really hope this trend of writing players off if they go though a bad spell or arent instant hits becomes less intense. It doesnt help in the long run

      GERNS
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 6,727 posts | 415 
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #3: Jan 05, 2015 11:23:56 pm
      Migs proved tonight with one save, that his shot stopping is fine.It's his failure to command his box, and lose crosses that lets him down, along with poor distribution.
      With the goal conceded tonight, he jumped for the cross with Akinfenwi, and immediately dropped to his knees to claim he was fouled. Had he stayed on his feet, he may have got to the second ball.
      Poor decision making at a very risky time in play.
      Thought the idea was to just go through players and make sure you get something on the ball. There was very little forward momentum when he jumped, it was  vertical and lightweight. Just not commanding enough.
      5timesacharm
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 4,409 posts | 897 
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #4: Jan 05, 2015 11:29:36 pm
      Mignolet's problem is he's a one trick pony. Great at shot stopping, utter garbage at everything else. He was the same for Sunderland and I was never in favour of his transfer. It's just one more in a long list of howlers by our transfer committee. Achterberg may not be helping matters, and the only fair analysis would be to look at the performance of other keeper's he's coached prior to joining Liverpool, but any suggestion that Mignolet isn't at fault is wide of the mark.
      DutchLiverpoolFan
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
      • ****

      • 782 posts | 30 
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #5: Jan 05, 2015 11:33:36 pm
      I remember him goalkeeping in Holland...





      he was sh*t



      Frankly, Mr Shankly
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 19,117 posts | 4587 
      • YNWA
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #6: Jan 05, 2015 11:44:59 pm
      Mignolet is much better than he is showing. The fact we've not had reliability in goal since 2011 must mean that Achterberg has some serious questions to answer. I don't know what the hell he does on the training field but it sure as hell ain't showing up on match day.
      KopiteLuke
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • *****

      • 21,056 posts | 3784 
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #7: Jan 05, 2015 11:50:17 pm
      Mignolet is much better than he is showing. The fact we've not had reliability in goal since 2011 must mean that Achterberg has some serious questions to answer. I don't know what the hell he does on the training field but it sure as hell ain't showing up on match day.

      Exactly, many have questioned this since Xavi Valero left and the fact it hasn't been addressed for so long is disturbing.

      It's the same when you suggest a defensive coach should be employed and people come back with responses as if we're talking about some American Football position. Of course managers have coaches who specialise in distinct areas, because their job title doesn't reflect that doesn't mean this isn't their actual role.

      For instance if we brought Carra in, I doubt very much if he's involved with the intricate final 3rd drills we run every day. But you can be damn sure as soon as we set up to practise defending corners he'd have a wealth of experience to bestow on every single member of that unit.

      If we want to re-assert ourselves on that top tier of teams then coaching is something we can certainly improve upon and perhaps compete with the best around. (although I don't actually believe we will) Getting the best young coaches in would be a huge step in the right direction, even more so as we have so many young players who are nowhere near fully developed yet.
      bigears
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 6,125 posts | 287 
      • My bird looks great in red
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #8: Jan 05, 2015 11:53:53 pm
      Achterberg, Marsh, Pascoe are all mediocre. Chief scouts and the lad with the computer . they're all sh*t and it shows on the pitch .
      7-King Kenny-7
      • Lives on Sesame Street
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 37,701 posts | 2615 
      • You'll Never Walk Alone!
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #9: Jan 06, 2015 12:04:42 am
      Exactly, many have questioned this since Xavi Valero left and the fact it hasn't been addressed for so long is disturbing.

      Our keepers haven't been the same since he left.

      Although I don't make much of Achterberg, he can't be the one we go pointing fingers at first or classing as Suspect Number 1. At the end of the day, suspect 1 has to be the manager. He is the one over seeing the regimes etc, and given how bad we have been in terms of goal keepers, surely something must click and if he changes the regime or gets Achterberg to try something different and if we still aren't seeing results then he has to make a decision that either the coaching/coaches in place aren't working out or the keepers at the club just aren't good enough.

      We don't know what goes on behind closed doors, for all we know they could be constantly changing regime's etc but the fact we are getting worse and worse at defending/goal keeping after about 3 years under the Rodgers era, suggests to me that although he has it planned how he wants us to set out in a game in terms of game plans and how he wants to attack, he hasn't got a clue about the defensive side of things.

      IMO the keeper coaches need to be given the boot because this dates back to since Xavi Valero left; he was getting the best out of Reina and we all saw that Reina in his last couple of season wasn't what he once was, he was still a very good goal keeper but something just wasn't right. However, it is also clear that our crop of keepers at the moment simply aren't good enough either and the situation needs addressing because even in a game against lower league teams Migs looks a complete and utter nervous wreck, the guy hasn't got a clue.
      Guruji
      • Forum Alf Arrowsmith
      • *

      • 57 posts | 50 
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #10: Jan 06, 2015 08:12:13 pm
      but the fact we are getting worse and worse at defending/goal keeping after about 3 years under the Rodgers era

      Interestingly, our defending (statistically) has neither improved nor got worse since last season. If you take out the last game vs Leicester, we have conceded 25 goals from 19 PL games with 4 clean sheets so far. Last season we conceded 50 PL goals in total with 8 clean sheets for Mignolet. Because we have scored far fewer goals this time around it has made our defence seem even worse than last season but statistically it has been performing the same.
      7-King Kenny-7
      • Lives on Sesame Street
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 37,701 posts | 2615 
      • You'll Never Walk Alone!
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #11: Jan 06, 2015 08:45:03 pm
      Interestingly, our defending (statistically) has neither improved nor got worse since last season. If you take out the last game vs Leicester, we have conceded 25 goals from 19 PL games with 4 clean sheets so far. Last season we conceded 50 PL goals in total with 8 clean sheets for Mignolet. Because we have scored far fewer goals this time around it has made our defence seem even worse than last season but statistically it has been performing the same.

      If you take out the last game?! You can't just forget about a fixture to make the stats work mate.
      insideanfield
      • Forum Sami Hyypia
      • ***

      • 472 posts | 22 
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #12: Jan 06, 2015 09:08:47 pm
      Achterberg, Marsh, Pascoe are all mediocre. Chief scouts and the lad with the computer . they're all sh*t and it shows on the pitch .

      I'm slowly beginning to agree with this now.

      Some of the players we missed out on are outrageous - how can we fail to land so many targets?

      Costa, Willian, Mkhitaryan, Salah, Konoplyanka, Eriksen, Shaqiri
      bigears
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 6,125 posts | 287 
      • My bird looks great in red
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #13: Jan 06, 2015 09:20:01 pm
      I'm slowly beginning to agree with this now.

      Some of the players we missed out on are outrageous - how can we fail to land so many targets?

      Costa, Willian, Mkhitaryan, Salah, Konoplyanka, Eriksen, Shaqiri

      lets take Konoplyanka as the best example , Rodgers chased this lad for the whole of the January transfer and failed to get him , why then did he not go all out in the summer to get him . There's something rotten away at our club and it starts at the top right down to the dressing room . The amount of poor signings Rodgers and his buddies have signed is remarkable to say the least .

      billythered
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 6,022 posts | 1693 
      • From Doubters to Believers
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #14: Jan 06, 2015 09:35:12 pm
      What I cannot understand is Brendan through his experience should recognise that for any side irrespective of the system should always always have a solid defence,
      and that starts with your keeper,

      Shanks knew it , as did Sir Bob and so to did the King, we have for most of the time had top keepers with one or two dodgy ones in between, ie James, Westerveld , but in all honesty Migs has to go down as the worst I can remember,

      Achterberg obviously has to shoulder a lot of the blame but it's not all down to him, keepers good or bad can have moments of brilliance as well as moments of sheer f**king idiocy,
      It's about decision making and positioning both of which Migs has been lacking for over a year,

      So what to do about it, for me in all honesty Migs will never be good enough, a decent 2nd yeah maybe but not first choice,

      This is another example of FSG penny pinching ,
      We had a very good keeper in Pepe, yeah for sure he had dipped in form but he was still miles better than Simon, but he was being over paid so he had to go,
      You cannot put a price on defence, look at chavs, their back 5 probably the most secure in the prem costs the best part out entire f***in team Gerrard & Johnson aside, even their back up are better than our regulars,

      I don't think we're going to get any better until a decent top quality keeper is found(Cech),
      A keeper such as he will instill the confidence in those in front of him simply because of his decision making, his positioning , his organising , the problem we have is our cb's have no trust in Migs, no confidence , hence the amount of leakage this season,

      Get it sorted Brendan, this month, priority number one !


      YNWA

      Guruji
      • Forum Alf Arrowsmith
      • *

      • 57 posts | 50 
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #15: Jan 06, 2015 10:29:26 pm
      If you take out the last game?! You can't just forget about a fixture to make the stats work mate.

      I'm not forgetting mate, it was just to say that at the midway point this season, we had conceded exactly half the number of goals as last season with half the clean sheets. This despite spending £30m+ on the 'leader' Lovren and Moreno.  :-\
      Hollywood Balls
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 3,802 posts | 469 
      • PhD, School of Hard Knocks, University of Life.
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #16: Jan 06, 2015 11:47:18 pm
      Our keepers haven't been the same since he left.

      Although I don't make much of Achterberg, he can't be the one we go pointing fingers at first or classing as Suspect Number 1. At the end of the day, suspect 1 has to be the manager. He is the one over seeing the regimes etc, and given how bad we have been in terms of goal keepers, surely something must click and if he changes the regime or gets Achterberg to try something different and if we still aren't seeing results then he has to make a decision that either the coaching/coaches in place aren't working out or the keepers at the club just aren't good enough.

      We don't know what goes on behind closed doors, for all we know they could be constantly changing regime's etc but the fact we are getting worse and worse at defending/goal keeping after about 3 years under the Rodgers era, suggests to me that although he has it planned how he wants us to set out in a game in terms of game plans and how he wants to attack, he hasn't got a clue about the defensive side of things.

      IMO the keeper coaches need to be given the boot because this dates back to since Xavi Valero left; he was getting the best out of Reina and we all saw that Reina in his last couple of season wasn't what he once was, he was still a very good goal keeper but something just wasn't right. However, it is also clear that our crop of keepers at the moment simply aren't good enough either and the situation needs addressing because even in a game against lower league teams Migs looks a complete and utter nervous wreck, the guy hasn't got a clue.

      Though I'm still puzzled as to why we went for Migs in the first place I don't think it's true to say BR doesn't have a clue how to defend.

      A lot of people have been advocating bringing back Steve Clarke as some kind of defensive coach to solve our problems but Rodgers, with his newl  promoted  shoestring-budget Swansea side managed more clean sheets than Kenny and Clarke did - and played  a better possession based attacking game at the same time.

      For me the "chief culprit" surely has to be Gerrard. When he is taken out of the deep lying role we look much tighter, concede less and score more points per game.

      Ultimately though, you are right in saying BR bears overall responsibility as the manager; I think he has taken the decision to play the captain there because he believes he brings more to the game to make up for his defensive frailties.

      A mistake, I think, but one of judgement not competence.
      7-King Kenny-7
      • Lives on Sesame Street
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 37,701 posts | 2615 
      • You'll Never Walk Alone!
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #17: Jan 07, 2015 12:01:41 am
      I don't think it's true to say BR doesn't have a clue how to defend.

      Then why are we getting worse at defending with each passing season regardless of who we sign?

      For me the "chief culprit" surely has to be Gerrard. When he is taken out of the deep lying role we look much tighter, concede less and score more points per game.

      How is Gerrard the chief cluprit? I'm more concerned about how our keeper can barely even catch a ball or move for a ball, the amount of goals we have let in from basic errors by our defence and keeper is beyond a joke and is just a complete piss take now, they can't even put a sodding tackle in 9 times out of 10, they are constantly out of position, zero communication, they don't trust the keeper and the keeper doesn't trust them. There is far too many stupid errors costing goals from our defence or keeper for Gerrard to be the main culprit.

      I think he has taken the decision to play the captain there because he believes he brings more to the game to make up for his defensive frailties.

      I'm curious to see just how much he plays that role now he is leaving. I think part of it was to try to prolong his career with us but with him leaving will we see him further up the field like the last couple of games I wonder.


      Not to mention Migs is completely and utterly incapable of kicking a ball or kicking it before it goes out for a corner for that matter and then when he does succeed in kicking it, he puts it straight back out of play again...even went out for a sodding corner earlier in the season!!!

      Our keeper and most of our defence are a complete embarrassment to the club compared to what we once had.
      Hollywood Balls
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 3,802 posts | 469 
      • PhD, School of Hard Knocks, University of Life.
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #18: Jan 07, 2015 03:17:43 am
      Then why are we getting worse at defending with each passing season regardless of who we sign?

      Are we though?

      Last season teams were frightened to attack us because they knew Suarez, Sterling and Sturridge would kill them if they overcommitted themselves. Even then we conceded 50 goals - 1.3 goals a match.

      This season, we have now played everyone being half-way through so how much worse are we now that teams are no longer frightened to attack us?

      We have conceded 27 goals in 2o matches - 1.35 goals a match.

      In other words, at this rate (and I bet you we get better as the season goes on) we won't even have conceded TWO whoie goals more than we did in the entireity of last season.

      We aren't that much different to last year - it's just that we haven't played with proper strikers to mask things so our perceptions are altered and it seems much worse.


      How is Gerrard the chief cluprit? I'm more concerned about how our keeper can barely even catch a ball or move for a ball, the amount of goals we have let in from basic errors by our defence and keeper is beyond a joke and is just a complete piss take now, they can't even put a sodding tackle in 9 times out of 10, they are constantly out of position, zero communication, they don't trust the keeper and the keeper doesn't trust them. There is far too many stupid errors costing goals from our defence or keeper for Gerrard to be the main culprit.


      For me, this is the key point here. Yes there has been mistake after mistake by the centrebacks and both keepers.

      Logically then, there is either a problem with the players or they are getting exposed by a systemic problem.

      Both keepers, and all four of our main centrebacks can't coincidentally have become garbage overnight. Look at the international performances they are putting in. In the case of Toure look at the experience he has from his previous clubs.

      So why are they being exposed time and again? It's because they are caught between two different styles of playing. They can't push up otherwise there are huge gaps behind them as Migs doesn't come off his line and they can't drop back because Gerrard doesn'r have the mobility, pace, aceleration, workrate, pressing or positional sense to cover them.

      Take him out of the equation in the DLPM position and suddenly our performances, clean sheets, points per game all suddenly improve.

      If we are going to play him there (and it's hard to see where else he could start) the only option as I see it is to get rid of Migs and get in a proper sweeper-keeper so that at least our back line can move up the pitch and close down the space around Gerrard. This would also mean getting rid of Skrtel who is statistically our best defender but wants to play close to the goalie.
      « Last Edit: Jan 07, 2015 03:32:55 am by Hollywood Balls »
      bad boy bubby
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 14,536 posts | 3140 
      • Better Red Than Dead @KaiserQueef
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #19: Jan 07, 2015 12:26:02 pm
      Although I don't make much of Achterberg, he can't be the one we go pointing fingers at first or classing as Suspect Number 1. At the end of the day, suspect 1 has to be the manager.
      That's a very interesting and valid point 7KK7: something we often try to avoid. Where does the buck stop; top or bottom?

      If, indeed, Achterberg is the problem (and I'm not saying he's not btw), then there's really only one man [Brendan] who can remove the problem, I suppose.  :-\



      srslfc
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 25,099 posts | 1700 
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #20: Jan 07, 2015 12:32:04 pm
      That's a very interesting and valid point 7KK7: something we often try to avoid. Where does the buck stop; top or bottom?

      If, indeed, Achterberg is the problem (and I'm not saying he's not btw), then there's really only one man [Brendan] who can remove the problem, I suppose.  :-\





      It is a good point Mouse and something I've brought up in the Pascoe and Marsh debate.

      Brendan is very much a hands in manager and seems to like full control of training so I've always been of the opinion if you're criticising how we are coached and how we approach playing football it is Brendan who takes that 'blame' and not those working under him who are most likely doing as they are told.
      ruthcity
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 3,449 posts | 275 
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #21: Jan 07, 2015 12:37:37 pm
      Since we are on this fella, what is his CV? What has he achieved? A lack of information or achievement would mean he is cheap to hire. Anyway we are just a financial asset to FSG. The whole coaching team could be cheap to hire. You get what you pay for...
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,330 posts | 1760 
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #22: Jan 07, 2015 12:58:34 pm
      If I remember right, weren't there reports coming out of Anfield about Achterberg really giving Reina a hard time in training?
      And by that, I mean taking the piss out of him, slagging him at every turn and basically being a proper c**t.

      At the time it was said that this was taking its toll on Reina's confidence, and coincidentally, that's when we really started to see a drop in form.
      srslfc
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 25,099 posts | 1700 
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #23: Jan 07, 2015 01:09:58 pm
      If I remember right, weren't there reports coming out of Anfield about Achterberg really giving Reina a hard time in training?
      And by that, I mean taking the piss out of him, slagging him at every turn and basically being a proper c**t.

      At the time it was said that this was taking its toll on Reina's confidence, and coincidentally, that's when we really started to see a drop in form.

      Wasn't that Hodge's right hand man though Swab?

      Forget his name now and still you could very well be correct.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,330 posts | 1760 
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #24: Jan 07, 2015 01:21:17 pm
      Wasn't that Hodge's right hand man though Swab?

      Forget his name now and still you could very well be correct.

      It may have been mate.
      My memory isn't what it was, but the name (Achterberg) stuck in my mind.
      Maybe I'm confusing things, because Achterberg wasn't promoted to first team coach until after hodgson left according to wiki.

      Whatever the case, our current goalkeeping coach doesn't seem to be earning his corn.
      bad boy bubby
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 14,536 posts | 3140 
      • Better Red Than Dead @KaiserQueef
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #25: Jan 07, 2015 01:21:21 pm
      It is a good point Mouse and something I've brought up in the Pascoe and Marsh debate.
      I think 7KK7 has hit the nail on the head to be fair Si.

      I know you own/manage a couple of businesses mate - I'm sure you would you accept responsibility and act to remedy the problem, if you knew someone was bringing your business down.  :-\




      Brian78
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 14,245 posts | 987 
      • A Liverbird upon my chest
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #26: Jan 07, 2015 05:41:46 pm
      I have no doubt that this man is nowhere near good enough to be our goalkeeping coach. But 2 things here regarding our current keepers and the coach. I nor anyone else knows what they do on a day to day basis in training but a blind man can see MIgnolets weaknesses. If the coach isn't working on them then he should be hauled in by the boss but MIgnolet is a big boy to, well capable of staying behind after training and working on his weaknesses himself

      Secondly a post was made making out that the coach ruined Reina. If Reina let a fella like AChteberg in his head so much that he lost his form completely then Pepe must be held up as a mentally weak person, which I don't believe he is.

      So basically he's not good enough to be our coach but the keepers themselves must take a lot of responsibility for there own failings
      Hollywood Balls
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 3,802 posts | 469 
      • PhD, School of Hard Knocks, University of Life.
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #27: Jan 07, 2015 05:59:32 pm

      Brendan is very much a hands on manager and seems to like full control of training

      I wish he'd train the goalie to get his ****ing hands on the ball :)
      Son Of A Gun
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****
      • Started Topic

      • 5,136 posts | 1250 
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #28: Jan 07, 2015 06:19:24 pm
      That's a very interesting and valid point 7KK7: something we often try to avoid. Where does the buck stop; top or bottom?

      If, indeed, Achterberg is the problem (and I'm not saying he's not btw), then there's really only one man [Brendan] who can remove the problem, I suppose.  :-\





      The buck stops with the manager eh? What a silly, idiotic narrow minded point of view, based on complete irrationality on your dislike of the manager. Well then, might as well bring in Dalglish, Hodgson and Benitez into this argument as Achterberg was at the club during their tenure. Since 'the buck stops with the manager' then they are all equally to blame - especially Dalglish as Achterberg was promoted to the senior side prior to his full season in charge in 2011. As ever with the Brendan haters, this argument is left untouched to avoid all exposure in hypocrisy (of which you are the self-proclaimed expert on).

      As such, that isn't my point of view. I don't blame Dalglish any more than Rodgers. Maybe - just maybe - questions have to be asked into coaching recruitment (in addition to player recruitment) as to why a coach with a bare CV with nothing remotely impressive on it was promoted to an important position in the coaching team. It seems to me - as ruthcity pointed out - a strange decision, but one that smells of yet another cost cutting measure. Thus, despite the obvious responsibility the manager does have, the buck stops with the overall strategy of the club, offering nothing but constraints upon constraints.

      But I will undoubtedly get shouted down from your esteemed intellectual and superior viewpoint and called a fool, as is the rule with anyone who vehemently disagrees with your viewpoint.
      « Last Edit: Jan 07, 2015 08:20:17 pm by Son Of A Gun »
      TheRedMosquito
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 12,200 posts | 631 
      • Elmore James got nothin' on this baby!
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #29: Jan 07, 2015 08:33:54 pm
      I don't blame Dalglish any more than Rodgers.

      Not to pick this out, but isn't kind of funny that under Kenny we had a great defensive record but were crap at scoring, and the opposite under Brendan? Kenny was a striker, Brendan was a defender. I just find it ironic hah

      Quick Reply