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      GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?

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      fishpie
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #30: Jan 08, 2015 03:14:58 am
      I'm writing this at half time against Wimbledon and yet another goalkeeping howler has given me food for thought.

      We all know Mignolet is terrible, we all know Jones is terrible, and sadly, Reina's form dropped like a stone. All this has happened under John Achterberg's tenure as goalkeeping coach. The goalkeepers are bad, but it's bizaarly the same mistake over and over and over again.

      What is going on in the coaching department? All over there seems to be massive issues in coaching. Brendan is a great coach - that is proven - but the others? The others seem useless.

      He's the last person I'd want to think of, but perhaps Rodgers should take a leaf from Ferguson's book? Ferguson looked way better than he really was by hiring a team of proven top class coaches. At the moment, our coaching staff is mediocre and the problems all over the field is tantamount to this.

      Number 1 suspect well yes really. Just the same as the call for a defensive coach, I don't see the difference.
      Something isn't right, what is it? Where does it start? The stage of coaching that field of expertise. Simple straightforward common sense.
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #31: Jan 09, 2015 10:38:57 am
      The buck stops with the manager eh? What a silly, idiotic narrow minded point of view, based on complete irrationality on your dislike of the manager.
      Silly,  idiotic and dislike of the manager; eh?  :lmao:

      Well, first off - I don't dislike the manager... far from it in fact - something that is borne out in my posts, should you ever take time to read them, you twit. Unlike your good self; I have always stood firm in my support of Brendan. I have never called for his head; never called him names and very rarely criticised him you silly, f**king, idiot.  ;D

      Now, having established that you aren't the sharpest tool in the box, do yourself a favour: read my post, in context, again. Better still get someone to read it to you.

      * 7KK7 made a valid point - it contradicts your point of view, something which obviously makes you feel uncomfortable and defensive - after all you didn't start this thread for discussion; you just wanted people to agree with you. Yes, it is very "narrow-minded", of you, but that doesn't make his point any less valid.

      * I acknowledged 7KK7's valid point and asked the question - "Where does the buck stop; top or bottom?"

      * Obviously, if like 7KK7 and me, you believe the buck stops at the "top" [Brendan, in this instance]; then Achterberg, can't be suspect number 1.

      * However, if like others, you believe the buck stops at the "bottom" [Mignolet, in this instance]; then Achterberg, can't be suspect number 1. 

      So what we are left with are people like your good self who want and need the buck to stop, somewhere in the middle, with Achterberg.

      Now: if that's how you read it - then fair enough. You have an opinion; just like 7KK7 and just like me, you believe it is valid.

      I'm sure you are secure enough in your belief that your opinion is right... to the point that a couple of questions, or opposing points of view, aren't going to be enough to make you look daft; right? So...

      I was merely opening the discussion up - and pointing out that - "If, indeed, Achterberg is the problem (and I'm not saying he's not btw), then there's really only one man [Brendan] who can remove the problem, I suppose."

      Is there any part of that assertion which isn't accurate?

      I mean; I might be missing something [I often do] but if "Suspect No1" John Achterberg is to get the chop - who is the man to give him the chop; his manager maybe?  Yes? No? :confused-smiley-013:

      Are you, genuinely, suggesting that someone else should undermine Brendan's authority, step in and sack Achterberg instead? :o :dunce2:

       
      Well then, might as well bring in Dalglish, Hodgson and Benitez into this argument as Achterberg was at the club during their tenure. Since 'the buck stops with the manager' then they are all equally to blame

      Well the truth is - I haven't "blamed" anyone fella but the fact remains that; if Achterberg was thought to be a problem, under any of those managers, the way you say he is now then...

      ... it's my view that the manager [any manager] should have sacked him, if they were unhappy with his performance.  It's really that simple... the name of the manager makes no difference - it's weird that you think it should.  :o
      « Last Edit: Jan 09, 2015 12:02:53 pm by bad boy bubby »
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #32: Feb 08, 2015 11:46:50 am
      So... anyway... now that we've had 4 clean sheets on the bounce and 5 out of our last 7 [league games]...

      Who do we now praise; a) "Suspect No 1", b) Simon or c) Brendan?

      I'll start the ball rolling - believing as I do that (when it comes to football) only Brendan has the power to change things then... it's only fair and right that he gets the lion's share of the credit for doing just that.

      Just to be clear tho - I have no problem with anyone who blamed "Suspect No 1", or Simon, coming on here now to praise either of them. 8)
      Thaddeus
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #33: Feb 08, 2015 02:14:52 pm
      I think credit can go to all 3.

      Brendan deserves credit for identifying exactly what was the problem in his style of play and how it can be fixed, yet still integrate with his philosophy for the team as a whole. John deserves credit for providing training to help with executing that vision. Simon deserves credit because he was responsive to change.
      billythered
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #34: Feb 08, 2015 08:25:19 pm
      All of us may be missing a vital ingredient here, it's only a matter of weeks ago that Simon was getting pelters and rightly so, his arse was on the floor so much so that Brendan decided that Brad Jones was promoted,
      Unfortunately for Brad he got injured leaving BR little choice but to reinstate his no1,

      As goalkeeping is particularly a confidence position I find it quite surprising how quickly Simon returned to the kind of form that he has,
      Perhaps it wasn't only BR & JA that gave Simon the kick up the arse he desperately needed,
      Last season we had a particular individual who was a major influence for the players state of mind, namely Dr Stephen Peters
      I might be wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if in fact he was instrumental in Migs recovery, I don't know for sure but perhaps BR sought his help knowing how important Simon is to the squad,

      Can anyone elaborate ?


      YNWA
      Son Of A Gun
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #35: Feb 08, 2015 11:18:39 pm
      I credit the back three of Skrtel, Sakho and Can. The coaches and player himself (and Steve Peters?) have done much in recent weeks, but there's nothing more comforting for a keeper than the defence in front of you doing a good job. It's simple on the basis that the worse the defence is, the more times the keeper is going to be called upon, thus meaning the chances of the keeper screwing up are much higher I suppose. What little chances we are conceding, he has been excellent so far.

      I freely apologise for my harsh treatment of Skrtel prior to the change in formation, he's been excellent, and it's great to see that, after all, there is a decent keeper there in Mignolet after all. Backed him last season, started to worry he wasn't of the standard this year, but he has shown there is a future at the club for him in recent weeks. A big turn around after it seemed all was hopeless.
      Son Of A Gun
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #36: Dec 20, 2015 04:18:36 pm
      Bruce Grobbelaar was right - Achterberg must shoulder the blame for such goalkeeping woes. Our keepers can't even grasp the most basic things.

      If you are a professional keeper - whether that is the Premier League to League 2, they all - at the very least - have to grasp the basics. One thing that got me was Klopp stated last week that he would shoulder the blame for telling Mignloet to come off his line. Very admirable, but why isn't the goalkeeping coach telling Migs this. A goalkeeping coach should teach that to be instinctive. Very worrying.

      We are Liverpool, and our keepers can't even grasp the basics. This has been a problem since 2011, with a dramatic decline in form for Reina - surprise surprise, the exact year that Achterberg was hired.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #37: Dec 20, 2015 06:37:11 pm
      Bruce Grobbelaar was right - Achterberg must shoulder the blame for such goalkeeping woes. Our keepers can't even grasp the most basic things

      It's simple things though, I don't rate Achterberg but he is getting too much of the blame and it's got to stop because it's a simple case of our keepers not being good enough. The errors that Migs and now Bogdan have been making are comical that you wouldn't expect to see in the lower divisions. Simple, everyday things like catching and holding onto the ball when you are the favourite to do so, going to punch it but totally missing the ball...Migs can't even count for f**k sake.

      By all means blame the coach for all these simple errors but there is only so much he can do, he can't magically make the keepers be able to catch the ball in a game or kick it properly. I don't doubt for a second they manage these things in training so why is is they collapse mentally on the pitch.
      Son Of A Gun
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #38: Oct 01, 2016 02:46:04 pm
      Alright, let's play devils advocate and say he's still sh*te.

      Came from Tranmere. Even shiter.

      Only got his coaching license in the summer. Right, he's taking the piss.

      CV is a joke, and Liverpool's goalkeepers still look uncomfortable - it's been this way since he was promoted from coaching the youth in 2011, when Reina's form dropped like a broken lift....
      Magillionare
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #39: Oct 01, 2016 04:22:35 pm
      Get rid.
      MIRO
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #40: Oct 02, 2016 09:06:11 am

      Achterberg was joined on the FA’s 24-strong list of 2016 Pro Licence graduates by the likes of Rangers boss Mark Warburton, former Liverpool keeper Brad Friedel, Phil Neville, Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, Scott Parker and Leicester City assistant boss Craig Shakespeare. Anyone wanting to manage in top-flight football across Europe must secure the Pro Licence.


      Wow  !

      Exalted company.

      Article also features how he "served with distinction" at Tranmere.

      http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-coach-john-achterberg-how-11494233
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #41: Oct 02, 2016 09:51:28 am

      As in one gets rid on a good night out Mags? 'Cause that sounds like a nice reward for the bloke.  :P

      heimdall
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #42: Oct 02, 2016 10:16:29 am

      Achterberg was joined on the FA’s 24-strong list of 2016 Pro Licence graduates by the likes of Rangers boss Mark Warburton, former Liverpool keeper Brad Friedel, Phil Neville, Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, Scott Parker and Leicester City assistant boss Craig Shakespeare. Anyone wanting to manage in top-flight football across Europe must secure the Pro Licence.


      Wow  !

      Exalted company.

      Article also features how he "served with distinction" at Tranmere.

      http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-coach-john-achterberg-how-11494233


      Is it only ex players who can get a pro license then?

      Anyway Achterburg is utter sh*t, he hasn't improved any of our keepers, in fact he has invariably made them all worse, I really hope Klopp realises this sooner rather than later. I actually find a it a bit weird that Goalkeepers at this level don't have their own coaches, similar to in Tennis as its such a specialised field.
      Magillionare
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #43: Oct 02, 2016 11:16:01 am
      As in one gets rid on a good night out Mags? 'Cause that sounds like a nice reward for the bloke.  :P



      Haha, maybe he'll not find his way back to Melwood after a big one :P
      mcarz
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #44: Oct 02, 2016 12:32:24 pm
      Is it only ex players who can get a pro license then?

      Anyway Achterburg is utter sh*t, he hasn't improved any of our keepers, in fact he has invariably made them all worse, I really hope Klopp realises this sooner rather than later. I actually find a it a bit weird that Goalkeepers at this level don't have their own coaches, similar to in Tennis as its such a specialised field.

      I remember Reina wanting to bring in his own keeper coach and was willing to pay the guy's wages himself because he thought Achterberg was so sh*t.
      nelioneil
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #45: Oct 02, 2016 01:01:55 pm
      Is it only ex players who can get a pro license then?

      Anyway Achterburg is utter sh*t, he hasn't improved any of our keepers, in fact he has invariably made them all worse, I really hope Klopp realises this sooner rather than later. I actually find a it a bit weird that Goalkeepers at this level don't have their own coaches, similar to in Tennis as its such a specialised field.

      All these consecutive managers wanting to keep him as GK coach. Maybe they can't find anyone better?
      mcarz
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #46: Oct 02, 2016 01:18:10 pm
      All these consecutive managers wanting to keep him as GK coach. Maybe they can't find anyone better?

      Could it be that they don't focus on this area as much in training? The manager and coaches usually do the outfield players training so their focus lies away from keepers. Not sure if that makes sense, more along the lines of me thinking out loud.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #47: Oct 02, 2016 01:27:20 pm
      I am sure if in the fullness of time jurgen wants to replace him with his own man then he will.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #48: Oct 02, 2016 02:03:43 pm
      Do you really need a Goalkeeping coach to teach someone how to catch or punch a ball? Our boys cant catch sh*t!
      mcarz
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #49: Oct 02, 2016 02:07:50 pm
      Do you really need a Goalkeeping coach to teach someone how to catch or punch a ball? Our boys cant catch sh*t!

      Do you really need a coach to teach somebody how to pass 5 yards?
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #50: Oct 02, 2016 02:09:19 pm
      Do you really need a coach to teach somebody how to pass 5 yards?

      So in conclusion, he's not doin a great job!
      tezmac
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #51: Oct 02, 2016 02:10:40 pm
      Do you really need a Goalkeeping coach to teach someone how to catch or punch a ball? Our boys cant catch sh*t!

      My son was a keeper and went to a goal keeper coach and he made a big difference
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #52: Oct 02, 2016 05:11:21 pm
      Got to be honest he may or may not be a good coach, but I don't like the snobbish undertones of attacking the fella purely on the basis that he came from Tranmere!

      5timesacharm
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #53: Oct 02, 2016 06:45:10 pm
      Or perhaps Mignolet is just sh*t (the frailties he shows for us were apparent when he played for Sunderland) and Karius just needs time to bed into a new club in a new league in a new country.
      Alfie2510
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #54: Oct 02, 2016 06:48:37 pm
      I remember De Gea and Reina were awful judging crosses when they first came to England...let's give the boy some time to bed in and accept he's going to make mistakes
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #55: Oct 02, 2016 07:09:46 pm
      Or perhaps Mignolet is just sh*t (the frailties he shows for us were apparent when he played for Sunderland) and Karius just needs time to bed into a new club in a new league in a new country.

      Pics monsieur scout...or it didn't happen.
      Brian78
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #56: Dec 09, 2016 01:36:08 pm
      While I have my serious doubts about his ability as a coach, we have had too many cock ups from various keepers over his spell as coach, lets not overlook the fault of the keepers here themselves.

      There are basics to goalkeeping. Ignore for the moment how good a keeper is at being an Alonso with the ball at his feet spraying passes around, lets focus on goal keepings number 1 priority, stopping the ball going past you and into the net. Good hands needed, quick feet needed, hand to eye co ordination must be spot on, agility command of the area, ability to get up and take balls coming into the box in the air and common sense.

      Our current pair actually tick most of those boxes. Both underachieve in the dealing with crosses but there are so dew keepers in world football that master it that its almost a given now that whoever your keeper is will struggle on crosses.

      Common sense might be an issue with both. And you don't need a top coach to sort that out. Example being parrying a shot back into play instead of either holding it or palming it away for a corner or towards the sidelines. Common sense would tell a keeper "theres 7 bodies in my way here I wont get to that cross so ill hold my line" how often have our keepers rushed off the line to make a mess of a punch because they cant get the run at it they need? And how often have we seen them go to collect a cross cleanly only to see them misjudge the flight and have it fly over them?

      So while I thing Actherberg is out of his depth I think the individual keepers need to look at themselves from a mental point of view. But look both are young enough still to develop into excellent keepers. The best keepers in the game are mostly in there 30s   
      bigmick
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #57: Dec 09, 2016 06:54:38 pm
      If I was as good at my job as this fella is at his, I'd be on the streets.
      sebby
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #58: Dec 09, 2016 08:03:49 pm
      You can't teach reaction speed,you've either got it,or you aint,neither of our keepers have it,Clemence had it,Brucie had it,as did Reina,but all the coaching in the world,will not help,if your body reacts to slowly to your brains commands,for me i would see if we could land Joe Hart in the transfer window,and unload 1 of our keepers,can't see how it is the coaches fault if the keeper can't get down fast enough to make regular stops.
      Kop_it
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #59: Dec 10, 2016 03:16:21 am
      You can't teach reaction speed,you've either got it,or you aint,neither of our keepers have it,Clemence had it,Brucie had it,as did Reina,but all the coaching in the world,will not help,if your body reacts to slowly to your brains commands,for me i would see if we could land Joe Hart in the transfer window,and unload 1 of our keepers,can't see how it is the coaches fault if the keeper can't get down fast enough to make regular stops.

      Now the thing is, Reina's performance dipped when Achterberg became the first team goalkeeping coach in 2011. Conicidence? Possibly.

      Mignolet's performance dipped as Achterberg became his coach. Coincidence? Possibly.

      Karius' performance dipped as Achterberg became his coach. Coincidence? Possibly.

      I hope we're seeing the trend here. Solid keepers into average ones.

      I hate bringing this up, but De Gea was shocking coming in. He was young talent full of potential. He made a lot of mistakes and learnt from it. I'd classify him as one of the world's top keepers at the moment. If it wasn't for him, the scums would be in the lower half of the table. While our keepers are making mistakes, they're not learning from it.

      I'm hoping Karius can become top class. That's what we all want. Even if that means, Achterberg staying.

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