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      GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?

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      Dadorious
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #75: Dec 12, 2016 10:34:20 am
      As someone who watches him a fair bit would you take him now over our two?
      Mate only by a bees dick to be honest. Our problems and panick situations in front of goal arise when a ball is played into box Pepe in his prime wasn't world class in dealing with these situations and with the loss of some pace and agility he's regressed even further.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #76: Dec 12, 2016 11:02:31 am
      Never heard this at the time. Very valid points.

      Thing is, though, Pepe as of right now, at Liverpool, is easily our Number 1. Walks it.

      Thing is, he unfortunately had a dip in form and had a little flirt with Barca. No way the club was going to miss those opportunities to chop the wage bill.

      The problem is, and I say this again, we're not going to buy established goalkeepers. It's not how FSG work, it's not how Klopp works. Both want to develop players. People wanted Klopp as manager so now you have to give him time to coach out the issues with Karius. We're a developing squad so people are just going to have to accept that players will take time to develop. As for people calling for Mignolet to return, they will soon remember what a walking nightmare he is the moment he costs us a match. A couple of games without a mistake (which is different to saying 'good games') and people think he's the second coming of Ray Clemence.

      Karius may not have covered himself in glory yesterday but I wouldn't say he directly cost us the match. Klopp did. Origi might score every time he plays but so does Sturridge and it didn't stop him from putting Firmino up front and benching him. What's changed? We don't look any better with Origi playing there than we did with Sturridge and with Lallana back fit there is no excuse for it. There is plenty of collective responsability to be taken for the last two results and it's far too over simplistic to blame any one person for any of it.
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #77: Dec 12, 2016 11:23:42 am

      Karius may not have covered himself in glory yesterday but I wouldn't say he directly cost us the match. Klopp did. Origi might score every time he plays but so does Sturridge and it didn't stop him from putting Firmino up front and benching him. What's changed? We don't look any better with Origi playing there than we did with Sturridge and with Lallana back fit there is no excuse for it.

      Can't really agree with this part mate.

      If Karius does the bread and butter then we have won and no matter what we think of the performance, as a whole, everybody has done their job. Unfair to say the outfield players haven't done their bit when they have got us into two leads only for Karius to not do standard goalkeeping tasks. Are they expected to score again every time he doesn't do his job? Okay every now and again but I hope it stops.

      And Sturridge hasn't been scoring every game he plays at all? Clearly had a form problem in front of goal before he got injured for a change. I also don't get the Firmino/Lallana thing you were talking about. Can was injured yesterday so Lallana went back into midfield. A midfield that hasn't looked anywhere near as good without him.

      I agree it's not only Karius that needs to improve but when the chips are down and there are injuries and dips to a lot of player's form he's the only one I am looking at who isn't at least doing the bare minimum well.
      heimdall
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #78: Dec 12, 2016 11:31:01 am
      The problem is, and I say this again, we're not going to buy established goalkeepers. It's not how FSG work, it's not how Klopp works. Both want to develop players. People wanted Klopp as manager so now you have to give him time to coach out the issues with Karius. We're a developing squad so people are just going to have to accept that players will take time to develop. As for people calling for Mignolet to return, they will soon remember what a walking nightmare he is the moment he costs us a match. A couple of games without a mistake (which is different to saying 'good games') and people think he's the second coming of Ray Clemence.

      Karius may not have covered himself in glory yesterday but I wouldn't say he directly cost us the match. Klopp did. Origi might score every time he plays but so does Sturridge and it didn't stop him from putting Firmino up front and benching him. What's changed? We don't look any better with Origi playing there than we did with Sturridge and with Lallana back fit there is no excuse for it. There is plenty of collective responsability to be taken for the last two results and it's far too over simplistic to blame any one person for any of it.

      Sorry but what?? Was it Klopp who told Karius to stand all the way over to the left hand side of the goal and leave a huge gap for Payet to aim at, and then told him to wait a couple of beats before moving to cut out the shot. Even the second goal would have been saved by a top keeper. Yes we should have scored more but a bad goalkeeper is like a cancer that spreads through the team whilst a good goalie making great saves lifts the whole team.

      On goalkeeping coaches I would say the basic test is whether or not he improves a goalkeeper and so far I see no evidence that Achterburg does this, so why on earth is he getting a wage?
      5timesacharm
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #79: Dec 12, 2016 12:58:31 pm
      Can't really agree with this part mate.

      If Karius does the bread and butter then we have won and no matter what we think of the performance, as a whole, everybody has done their job. Unfair to say the outfield players haven't done their bit when they have got us into two leads only for Karius to not do standard goalkeeping tasks. Are they expected to score again every time he doesn't do his job? Okay every now and again but I hope it stops.

      And Sturridge hasn't been scoring every game he plays at all? Clearly had a form problem in front of goal before he got injured for a change. I also don't get the Firmino/Lallana thing you were talking about. Can was injured yesterday so Lallana went back into midfield. A midfield that hasn't looked anywhere near as good without him.

      I agree it's not only Karius that needs to improve but when the chips are down and there are injuries and dips to a lot of player's form he's the only one I am looking at who isn't at least doing the bare minimum well.

      A mistake from a defender and a free kick he got his hand to but didn't keep out is hardly the same as allowing the ball to slip under you, or flapping at a cross that leads to a goal. I'm not absolving him of blame, I'm simply pointing out he wasn't the only one to blame for the goals, hence why I said there is collective responsibility to be had.

      Whenever Sturridge or Origi play in that 4-3-3 set up we simply don't press as well as we do when we have Firmino through the middle. If Klopp wants to include an out-and-out striker then he needs to adapt the formation to get the best out of them, not try squeezing square pegs in to round holes. We're missing Coutinho but not because of the player himself but because he's playing the wrong players in the wrong system and it's only since he's started doing that that we have started throwing leads away because key players like Firmino look out of sorts. Wijnaldum should plug the hole Coutinho has left and the formation, not Origi.

      Similarly, Achterberg might be part of the problem but he's not the sole reason why our goalkeepers look fragile. At the end of the day we need a top class goalkeeper, not spend peanuts on one who might be good in five years time.
      Brian78
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #80: Dec 12, 2016 01:37:56 pm
      and a free kick he got his hand to but didn't keep out is hardly the same as allowing the ball to slip under you, or flapping at a cross that leads to a goal.

      That free kick was very saveable, he should have got his hand to it theres no getting away from that fact
      Tadders
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #81: Dec 12, 2016 01:46:01 pm

      Lloris, Cortouis, Cech, De Gea. Is it an wonder that both City and us are a laughing stock at the back? we need to score 4 goals to win a game, even Barcelona couldn't do this. We are going to win f**k all until we get a goalkeeper suitable to our attack.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #82: Dec 12, 2016 02:26:14 pm
      That free kick was very saveable, he should have got his hand to it theres no getting away from that fact

      It was also a decent free kick. A world class goal keeper would have saved it, your average keeper would not and that's precisely what Karius and Mignolet are. Distinctly average. There's only so much a coach can do with an average player. Rather than pointing the finger at Achterberg I'd sooner see us identify an established, world class goal keeper that ticks all the boxes and then go out and pay whatever is needed to bring him to Anfield. The blame game doesn't help. Buying decent players does. It's been the constant story of life under FSG. Everything has to be done on the cheap.
      CROM592
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #83: Dec 12, 2016 02:53:19 pm
      I've touched on the Achterberg debate in my blog post on Karius, Grobbelaar makes a good point about him being unable to improve Mignolet.

      https://scsportblog.wordpress.com/2016/12/12/can-liverpool-afford-to-stick-with-karius/
      Boston not la
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #84: Dec 12, 2016 04:20:19 pm
      I think i've asked this before but who are the top goalkeeping coaches available at the moment? i've not a clue about what a keepers coach does, but Achterberg must do something right to still be here,no?
      Munch101
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #85: Dec 12, 2016 04:28:53 pm
      I think i've asked this before but who are the top goalkeeping coaches available at the moment? i've not a clue about what a keepers coach does, but Achterberg must do something right to still be here,no?
      I think Evertons old keeper coach is one of the best, he turned Howard into one of the prems most reliable keepers for a few years and then went with Moyes to United and was the biggest influence in De Gea's change of fortune....then again Being at Everton and now United I highly highly doubt he'd come to us :(
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #86: Dec 12, 2016 05:46:04 pm
      I think i've asked this before but who are the top goalkeeping coaches available at the moment? i've not a clue about what a keepers coach does, but Achterberg must do something right to still be here,no?

      This was my counter to the 'blame Achterberg' shouts but I am now reading and hearing more counter arguments against him that make more sense to be honest.

      Reina is a solid number 1 at Napoli now. Would he have been, here, under Achterberg? Everyone agrees he regressed under him.

      Did Brad Jones improve? Has won an award in the Dutch league for NEC since he left, though.

      Gulacsi?

      Has Mignolet improved? It can be argued that he has regressed from being SFC player of the year however many times he was before he came here.

      Did Bogdan improve?

      Is Karius as bad as he looks now taking last season into account? Wasn't he awarded 2nd best GK behind Neaur?

      Thinking our Jürgen may have dropped a clanger in keeping this lad on.

      One simple question should sort this: Has any goalkeeper improved at this club since John Achterberg has been coaching for us?

      The answer should tell you that a change can only be a good thing and also take the spotlight off Karius and Mignolet. I won't apologise for saying that I think he can be a very worthy scapegoat.
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #87: Dec 14, 2016 05:20:29 am
      Well, I think we can scrap my post above :)

      Achterberg takes the flak but Klopp's faith in Liverpool coach is unwavering

      The criticism of long-serving Dutchman is wrong and disrespectful

      BY JAMES PEARCE

      Loris Karius wasn’t the only man to take the flak for Liverpool ’s failings against West Ham.

      Social media was awash with a torrent of criticism being aimed at a member of Jürgen Klopp’s backroom staff.

      Karius’ struggles have been held up as proof in some quarters that goalkeeping coach John Achterberg is the problem rather than the solution.

      It’s not an opinion which is shared by anyone inside Melwood.

      The fact is that the Dutchman is a highly-regarded coach who retains the full backing of the manager. The goalkeepers he works with on a daily basis also speak glowingly about the calibre of the sessions he delivers.

      Last summer the 45-year-old became one of the few keeping coaches in European football to acquire the UEFA Pro Licence - the highest qualification available. The idea that he’s a weak link is simply wrong and hugely disrespectful.

      How Liverpool FC should line up against Middlesbrough - is it time to get Firmino back in the middle
      If Klopp had any doubts about Achterberg’s capabilities then he wouldn’t still be part of the set-up.

      After all the German isn’t afraid to ring the changes - underlined by last summer’s overhaul which saw Andreas Kornmayer brought in as the club's new head of fitness and conditioning and Mona Nemmer follow him to Liverpool from Bayern Munich as head of nutrition.

      When Klopp and his trusted assistants Zeljko Buvac and Peter Krawietz penned new six-year deals back in July, Achterberg and first-team development coach Pep Lijnders were also handed contract extensions.

      He’s very much part of ‘Team Klopp’ and that isn’t likely to change any time soon.

      Achterberg joined the Liverpool Academy staff during Rafa Benitez’s reign in 2009 after 11 years of service to Tranmere Rovers and more than 300 appearances.

      It was Kenny Dalglish who promoted him to the role of first-team goalkeeping coach in the summer of 2011 and he’s retained that position under both Brendan Rodgers and Klopp.

      Critics highlight the issues Liverpool have had with keepers over the past five-and-a-half years and point to Achterberg as the one common denominator. They demand to know who he’s improved out of Pepe Reina, Alexander Doni, Péter Gulacsi, Brad Jones, Simon Mignolet, Adam Bogdan, Danny Ward and Karius.

      For a start Reina was in decline before Achterberg got to work with him, while Doni, Jones and Bogdan - who cost a combined total of £2.3million - simply weren’t up to it.

      Playing for Liverpool is not just a question of talent, there’s also the pressure and expectation which many struggle to handle.

      Gulacsi, who is now shining for RB Leipzig, was young and never got to to make a senior appearance for the Reds, while Ward’s development at Liverpool has been eye-catching and his education is currently continuing on loan at Huddersfield Town.

      Kop legend Bruce Grobbelaar has previously slammed Achterberg for the flaws he sees in Mignolet’s game.

      “I now know who the true person to blame is,” he said. “If he (Achterberg) can’t right Mignolet’s wrongs in two years then he shouldn’t be there.”

      However, it’s difficult to take Grobbelaar seriously when in the next breath he basically admitted that he wants Achterberg’s job.

      The reality is that Mignolet has kicked on over the past six months and it shows the value of having proper competition - something Mignolet didn’t really have with either Jones or Bogdan about.

      In terms of Karius, you can’t judge the impact of the coaching he’s getting after just 11 appearances. Has he performed for the Reds like someone who was voted the second best keeper in the Bundesliga last season? No, but then playing for Liverpool is a world away from life at Mainz.

      It’s also worth remembering that under both Rodgers and Klopp the Reds have been committed to a brand of attacking football which means the keeper isn’t blessed with a huge amount of protection.

      “I really trust in John Achterberg because he does a brilliant job here. He’s one of the hardest working people I’ve ever met.”

      They were the words of Klopp last season and they still ring true today.

      After the mistakes which have blighted recent Liverpool performances, a major improvement is required between the posts. But Klopp’s faith in Acherberg to help achieve that remains.

      Echo

      Beerbelly
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #88: Dec 14, 2016 09:17:12 am
      Well, I think we can scrap my post above :)

      Achterberg takes the flak but Klopp's faith in Liverpool coach is unwavering

      The criticism of long-serving Dutchman is wrong and disrespectful

      BY JAMES PEARCE

      Loris Karius wasn’t the only man to take the flak for Liverpool ’s failings against West Ham.

      Social media was awash with a torrent of criticism being aimed at a member of Jürgen Klopp’s backroom staff.

      Karius’ struggles have been held up as proof in some quarters that goalkeeping coach John Achterberg is the problem rather than the solution.

      It’s not an opinion which is shared by anyone inside Melwood.

      The fact is that the Dutchman is a highly-regarded coach who retains the full backing of the manager. The goalkeepers he works with on a daily basis also speak glowingly about the calibre of the sessions he delivers.

      Last summer the 45-year-old became one of the few keeping coaches in European football to acquire the UEFA Pro Licence - the highest qualification available. The idea that he’s a weak link is simply wrong and hugely disrespectful.

      How Liverpool FC should line up against Middlesbrough - is it time to get Firmino back in the middle
      If Klopp had any doubts about Achterberg’s capabilities then he wouldn’t still be part of the set-up.

      After all the German isn’t afraid to ring the changes - underlined by last summer’s overhaul which saw Andreas Kornmayer brought in as the club's new head of fitness and conditioning and Mona Nemmer follow him to Liverpool from Bayern Munich as head of nutrition.

      When Klopp and his trusted assistants Zeljko Buvac and Peter Krawietz penned new six-year deals back in July, Achterberg and first-team development coach Pep Lijnders were also handed contract extensions.

      He’s very much part of ‘Team Klopp’ and that isn’t likely to change any time soon.

      Achterberg joined the Liverpool Academy staff during Rafa Benitez’s reign in 2009 after 11 years of service to Tranmere Rovers and more than 300 appearances.

      It was Kenny Dalglish who promoted him to the role of first-team goalkeeping coach in the summer of 2011 and he’s retained that position under both Brendan Rodgers and Klopp.

      Critics highlight the issues Liverpool have had with keepers over the past five-and-a-half years and point to Achterberg as the one common denominator. They demand to know who he’s improved out of Pepe Reina, Alexander Doni, Péter Gulacsi, Brad Jones, Simon Mignolet, Adam Bogdan, Danny Ward and Karius.

      For a start Reina was in decline before Achterberg got to work with him, while Doni, Jones and Bogdan - who cost a combined total of £2.3million - simply weren’t up to it.

      Playing for Liverpool is not just a question of talent, there’s also the pressure and expectation which many struggle to handle.

      Gulacsi, who is now shining for RB Leipzig, was young and never got to to make a senior appearance for the Reds, while Ward’s development at Liverpool has been eye-catching and his education is currently continuing on loan at Huddersfield Town.

      Kop legend Bruce Grobbelaar has previously slammed Achterberg for the flaws he sees in Mignolet’s game.

      “I now know who the true person to blame is,” he said. “If he (Achterberg) can’t right Mignolet’s wrongs in two years then he shouldn’t be there.”

      However, it’s difficult to take Grobbelaar seriously when in the next breath he basically admitted that he wants Achterberg’s job.

      The reality is that Mignolet has kicked on over the past six months and it shows the value of having proper competition - something Mignolet didn’t really have with either Jones or Bogdan about.

      In terms of Karius, you can’t judge the impact of the coaching he’s getting after just 11 appearances. Has he performed for the Reds like someone who was voted the second best keeper in the Bundesliga last season? No, but then playing for Liverpool is a world away from life at Mainz.

      It’s also worth remembering that under both Rodgers and Klopp the Reds have been committed to a brand of attacking football which means the keeper isn’t blessed with a huge amount of protection.

      “I really trust in John Achterberg because he does a brilliant job here. He’s one of the hardest working people I’ve ever met.”

      They were the words of Klopp last season and they still ring true today.

      After the mistakes which have blighted recent Liverpool performances, a major improvement is required between the posts. But Klopp’s faith in Acherberg to help achieve that remains.

      Echo


      Interesting article.

      I know Achterberg is suspect number 1 for quite a while and there could be something in this theory. Yet, we don't actually know what goes on in training; you can only tell by watching your team perform.

      Basically, IMO it's all quite simple really, we simply don't buy right, and the goalkeeping department has been a bit of an Achilles Heel for this club for some time now.

      I mean, a coach can only work with what he's got - if he wants to coach a 'table and is given a lampshade' then he's got to coach the lampshade. Ability is everything.

      Again, do we blame Buvac and Klopp because Moreno is sh*t at defending? And thus, has never been coached properly. Of course we don't 1) because it would be sacrilege for many to admit, and 2) (the most important point)  because we know it isn't possible to coach every player into something they'll never become. Ability is everything.

      Look, there maybe some merit in Achterberg's own ability or lack of in coaching GK, but I don't know. Nobody does, apart from Klopp & co. There does seem to be a pattern, but there also seems to be a pattern that we purchase keepers that aren't up to task.
      Maybe if we did the latter better, we wouldn't be scapegoating all hope onto the coach's perceived lack of ability.
      althebest1
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #89: Dec 14, 2016 09:21:50 am
      What a load of bollocks this thread is, who is to blame for all the other crap keepers? There ain't many good ones about nowadays, they are are dying breed and they all wear kits that are two sizes too big.
      althebest1
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #90: Dec 14, 2016 09:23:20 am
      That free kick was very saveable, he should have got his hand to it theres no getting away from that fact

      The free kick was saveable no doubt, but not from his bad starting position.
      Beerbelly
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #91: Dec 14, 2016 09:27:05 am
      The free kick was saveable no doubt, but not from his bad starting position.

      Exactly.

      Now, unless Achterberg ran round the back of the net and whispered in Karius' ear to start where he did; we can safely say that was very poor goalkeeping.
      heimdall
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #92: Dec 14, 2016 09:34:43 am
      Exactly.

      Now, unless Achterberg ran round the back of the net and whispered in Karius' ear to start where he did; we can safely say that was very poor goalkeeping.

      But would it not be the coach's job to instruct Karius on positioning. Would it also not be the goalkeeping coaches job to recommend goalkeepers we should be buying ie running the rule over Karius and saying Nein to Klopp? That article in support of him is so biased its scary. Mignolet has improved under Achertburg, really?? in what way is that and does it explain why he doesn't get a game now!!!
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #93: Dec 14, 2016 01:56:09 pm
      and they all wear kits that are two sizes too big.

      :D
      ruthcity
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #94: Dec 18, 2016 07:41:59 am
      But would it not be the coach's job to instruct Karius on positioning. Would it also not be the goalkeeping coaches job to recommend goalkeepers we should be buying ie running the rule over Karius and saying Nein to Klopp? That article in support of him is so biased its scary. Mignolet has improved under Achertburg, really?? in what way is that and does it explain why he doesn't get a game now!!!

      I know Klopp would personally see to this particular positioning situation. But if Klopp hadn't, we don't even know if the goalkeeping department itself would conduct a review or just get on with life on the training pitch. Now that'll be a real coaching issue if so.
      billythered
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      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #95: Dec 18, 2016 08:48:25 am
      Well, I think we can scrap my post above :)

      Achterberg takes the flak but Klopp's faith in Liverpool coach is unwavering

      The criticism of long-serving Dutchman is wrong and disrespectful

      BY JAMES PEARCE

      Loris Karius wasn’t the only man to take the flak for Liverpool ’s failings against West Ham.

      Social media was awash with a torrent of criticism being aimed at a member of Jürgen Klopp’s backroom staff.

      Karius’ struggles have been held up as proof in some quarters that goalkeeping coach John Achterberg is the problem rather than the solution.

      It’s not an opinion which is shared by anyone inside Melwood.

      The fact is that the Dutchman is a highly-regarded coach who retains the full backing of the manager. The goalkeepers he works with on a daily basis also speak glowingly about the calibre of the sessions he delivers.

      Last summer the 45-year-old became one of the few keeping coaches in European football to acquire the UEFA Pro Licence - the highest qualification available. The idea that he’s a weak link is simply wrong and hugely disrespectful.

      How Liverpool FC should line up against Middlesbrough - is it time to get Firmino back in the middle
      If Klopp had any doubts about Achterberg’s capabilities then he wouldn’t still be part of the set-up.

      After all the German isn’t afraid to ring the changes - underlined by last summer’s overhaul which saw Andreas Kornmayer brought in as the club's new head of fitness and conditioning and Mona Nemmer follow him to Liverpool from Bayern Munich as head of nutrition.

      When Klopp and his trusted assistants Zeljko Buvac and Peter Krawietz penned new six-year deals back in July, Achterberg and first-team development coach Pep Lijnders were also handed contract extensions.

      He’s very much part of ‘Team Klopp’ and that isn’t likely to change any time soon.

      Achterberg joined the Liverpool Academy staff during Rafa Benitez’s reign in 2009 after 11 years of service to Tranmere Rovers and more than 300 appearances.

      It was Kenny Dalglish who promoted him to the role of first-team goalkeeping coach in the summer of 2011 and he’s retained that position under both Brendan Rodgers and Klopp.

      Critics highlight the issues Liverpool have had with keepers over the past five-and-a-half years and point to Achterberg as the one common denominator. They demand to know who he’s improved out of Pepe Reina, Alexander Doni, Péter Gulacsi, Brad Jones, Simon Mignolet, Adam Bogdan, Danny Ward and Karius.

      For a start Reina was in decline before Achterberg got to work with him, while Doni, Jones and Bogdan - who cost a combined total of £2.3million - simply weren’t up to it.

      Playing for Liverpool is not just a question of talent, there’s also the pressure and expectation which many struggle to handle.

      Gulacsi, who is now shining for RB Leipzig, was young and never got to to make a senior appearance for the Reds, while Ward’s development at Liverpool has been eye-catching and his education is currently continuing on loan at Huddersfield Town.

      Kop legend Bruce Grobbelaar has previously slammed Achterberg for the flaws he sees in Mignolet’s game.

      “I now know who the true person to blame is,” he said. “If he (Achterberg) can’t right Mignolet’s wrongs in two years then he shouldn’t be there.”

      However, it’s difficult to take Grobbelaar seriously when in the next breath he basically admitted that he wants Achterberg’s job.

      The reality is that Mignolet has kicked on over the past six months and it shows the value of having proper competition - something Mignolet didn’t really have with either Jones or Bogdan about.

      In terms of Karius, you can’t judge the impact of the coaching he’s getting after just 11 appearances. Has he performed for the Reds like someone who was voted the second best keeper in the Bundesliga last season? No, but then playing for Liverpool is a world away from life at Mainz.

      It’s also worth remembering that under both Rodgers and Klopp the Reds have been committed to a brand of attacking football which means the keeper isn’t blessed with a huge amount of protection.

      “I really trust in John Achterberg because he does a brilliant job here. He’s one of the hardest working people I’ve ever met.”

      They were the words of Klopp last season and they still ring true today.

      After the mistakes which have blighted recent Liverpool performances, a major improvement is required between the posts. But Klopp’s faith in Acherberg to help achieve that remains.

      Echo


      Hmm,
      After reading this I'm even more concerned, Achterberg a top GK coach because he earned his stripes at.....wait for it....... That incredible world beating European conquering EPL Championship winning, amazing, wonderful w*nk festing non league club... TRANMERE Fooking Rovers..... The experience he has is insurmountable, his phone must be in meltdown from all the world's keeper's ringing for advice,

      Ffs C'mon, seriously, so all in all it comes down to Migs having at last some competition or not as it may prove to be,
      Top FA coaching badges are all well and good on your CV but where is his experience playing at a top level club in a league second to none, where has he gained experience in European or world football,
      Maybe it's just that,  he has none or limited experience playing at the level he is now coaching in, he may be a good coach for a club at the level of the Championship, but is he really good enough for us, really?

      I guess the Migs needs competition mantra will be proven either way through time, Question is how much time do we afford?
      Someone once said that you can't polish a turd,  that's true, but are we trying to polish a turd with a turd,? Ain't gonna work is it?

      YNWA
      what-a-hit-son
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      • @MrPrice1979
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #96: Dec 18, 2016 09:02:12 am
      Hmm,
      After reading this I'm even more concerned, Achterberg a top GK coach because he earned his stripes at.....wait for it....... That incredible world beating European conquering EPL Championship winning, amazing, wonderful w*nk festing non league club... TRANMERE Fooking Rovers..... The experience he has is insurmountable, his phone must be in meltdown from all the world's keeper's ringing for advice

      Sorry mate, but this is complete and utter bollocks.
      billythered
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      • From Doubters to Believers
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #97: Dec 18, 2016 02:00:03 pm
      Sorry mate, but this is complete and utter bollocks.

       :lmao:
      Care to elaborate wahs, I can get the complete bit but utter as well, not that bad is it?
      YNWA

      RedWilly
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
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      • 7,618 posts | 944 
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #98: Dec 18, 2016 02:18:43 pm
      :lmao:
      Care to elaborate wahs, I can get the complete bit but utter as well, not that bad is it?
      YNWA



      Where he's played at isn't important though. Klopp never played at the top level and neither did a lot of managers.

      It's what he is teaching the players that is important and to be honest, I've not a f**king clue what he is teaching them and I doubt anyone else does.

      If he was sh*te though, I'm sure one manager would have given him the boot by now if he's been here since Rafa was.
      what-a-hit-son
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      • @MrPrice1979
      Re: GK Coach John Achterberg - Suspect No 1?
      Reply #99: Dec 18, 2016 06:10:26 pm
      :lmao:
      Care to elaborate wahs, I can get the complete bit but utter as well, not that bad is it?
      YNWA



      :D

      Sorry Bill, come across rude that.

      It's just that the fact he was plying his trade at Tranmere has absolutely nothing to do with anything. There will have been 100s, probably 1000s of coaches that have played or coached at low league level and gone on to become excellent at their job.

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