Jordon Ibe (Derby County)

But would you rather Ibe back or Lavezzi? I know what I'd rather and it already happened..

We spent a fortune on players in the summer, addressing every part of the team besides a GK. most of them have underperformed.

At this point in time I'm not going to blame FSG's reluctance to spend big.

Could also be the reason that Ibe has been bought back early is because Lille are playing hardball and Origi will not be here till next season.

We spent a fortune on players in the summer, addressing every part of the team besides a GK. most of them have underperformed.

At this point in time I'm not going to blame FSG's reluctance to spend big.

Yup we spent a fortune alright. But still didn't address the number one priority for this season... replacing Luis's goals.

Could also be the reason that Ibe has been bought back early is because Lille are playing hardball and Origi will not be here till next season.

All very commendable about people defending JWH & Co in spite of the fact if he conducted his other business interests in the way he does with LFC, he would be on the bones of his arse.
Acquiring potential to hone into a credible first team choice requires commitment and dedicated coaching, occasionally the apprenticeship may require the player be given experience in another team for the benefit of all.
Sides with a glut of talent take this course of action regularly when the multiple jostling for game time impinges on youth development, the loaning out scenario is indeed of use to all in that situation.

LFC have none of the attributes that would translate as it being of benefit to the club to loan players out, proof of the misjudgement is displayed right now in the pathetic action the manager is forced into when our only credible striker is injured, his stand in proves unsustainable and the bargain buys are what they are.

Jordan Ibe, Divock Origi and whoever else are just a thin veil to mask the short term aspiration of JWH & Co.

     

Can't wait to see Ibe play for us again the kid is electric.

Can't wait to see Ibe play for us again the kid is electric.

Agree.

Still shouldn't be in the transfer section though.

Jordan Ibe, Divock Origi and whoever else are just a thin veil to mask the short term aspiration of JWH & Co.
 

Without defending the owners, I can't really see how Ibe and Origi can be used in the same sentence as "short term aspiration"

Without defending the owners, I can't really see how Ibe and Origi can be used in the same sentence as "short term aspiration"

Those signings were supposedly brought in as part of a structure that if followed would culminate in the potential maturing and stepping into the shoes of possibly fading veterans.
Being thrown in at the deep end at such a tender stage in their apprenticeship might or might not be beneficial to the players or the team.
Don't forget neither of them have been expressly selected for their outstanding form in their adopted clubs, they are playing to expectation no more no less; they are being recalled because there is no cover for Sturridge or Sterling and that option is the most economical deal available.
Just the kind of short term option we expect JWH & Co to go for.

Those signings were supposedly brought in as part of a structure that if followed would culminate in the potential maturing and stepping into the shoes of possibly fading veterans.
Being thrown in at the deep end at such a tender stage in their apprenticeship might or might not be beneficial to the players or the team.
Don't forget neither of them have been expressly selected for their outstanding form in their adopted clubs, they are playing to expectation no more no less; they are being recalled because there is no cover for Sturridge or Sterling and that option is the most economical deal available.
Just the kind of short term option we expect JWH & Co to go for.

Ibe is arguably Derby's best player after Will Hughes this season.

Those signings were supposedly brought in as part of a structure that if followed would culminate in the potential maturing and stepping into the shoes of possibly fading veterans.
Being thrown in at the deep end at such a tender stage in their apprenticeship might or might not be beneficial to the players or the team.
Don't forget neither of them have been expressly selected for their outstanding form in their adopted clubs, they are playing to expectation no more no less; they are being recalled because there is no cover for Sturridge or Sterling and that option is the most economical deal available.
Just the kind of short term option we expect JWH & Co to go for.

Sorry mate, I disagree. I think that both Ibe and Origi are ready for minutes in our team now - and its better now than later. It can hardly be called short termism as it is setting them up for a future career with us. Integrating them early. To me it seems the direct opposite - integrating youth can't ever be considered short termism. Milner is looking at the short term. I'm not suggesting they should play every week, but if a player can't be thrown in the deep end - then they can't play for us, as we are always going to be the deep end.

As for the economic point - if we haven't got the money to spend on other players the whole thing seems smart enough to me. The alternative was looking like selling a great player like Lucas to have punt on another talented young thing who may or may not come good.
If you disagree with the premise that our spending is limited by FFP, thats fair enough, but I'd be interested to how you came to that conclusion.

Ibe is arguably Derby's best player after Will Hughes this season.

5 goals and 1 assist is very good for a wide player - and when his minutes are taken into account he was about 2 in 5 which is cracking. He is their 3rd top scorer, 1 behind their 2nd. For me Hughes has gone off the boil of late - I would have said Chris Martin was their best player - 18 goals this season in all competitions.

Agreed that Ibe was their 2nd best.

Is he ready for the EPL though? Most Derby fans don't seem to think so - they talk particularly of his "frustrating" decision making.

Things like this:

So what happens now?

He plays for them, doesn't make as good decisions as Sterling or Coutinho or Lallana and then spends the rest of the season getting splinters? Just when he was starting to show he's learned a bit.

I can actually see him having an impact on his return. But over time I think he's decision making will become frustrating.

And this:

I think players like Ibe probably look better than they actually are over the full 90 on highlights reels so can understand Liverpool wanting to recall him, though don't really see him starting too many games in the Prem at the moment. For the most part he was inconsistent with moments of magic every now and again, OK he had a couple of solid games on the trot just lately. A successful loan signing I would say and can only improve.

Or this:

He's got potential but no where near ready for premier league , his one big failing he never looks up and makes the right pass but if he gets that knocked into him there may be a really top player in the making

One went as far as to say this:

I really would not get too excited about him, he has probably only had 3 or 4 good games while he has been here and only got back in the team due to injuries.
 
Any defender with half a brain (which you would expect them to have if they are Premier League) can soon figure him out.
 
Definitely needs to try and develop a football brain and realise he does not have to do everything on his own. In fairness he was definitely improving in this area over the last 3 or 4 weeks.

Is he ready for the EPL though? Most Derby fans don't seem to think so - they talk particularly of his "frustrating" decision making.

Things like this:

And this:

Or this:

One went as far as to say this:

I've been reading their forums. They raved about him from November onwards, as soon as they caught wind he was off, he was sh*t again.

EDIT: also I've watched most Derby games this year - what they say has grains of truth. His football IQ isn't as advanced as Sterlings so he has some way to go in his decision making, but you don't become the championships best dribbler (in terms of stats) and score a decent return at such a young age by being sh*t. He has been one of their standout players by a good margin. I mean, hell, in 20 games they made a 19 year old their primary corner taker. Consistent in good chance creation and take ons, constantly looking to make something happen. Weak at crossing, but that doesn't really matter in our team.

I've been reading their forums. They raved about him from November onwards, as soon as they caught wind he was off, he was sh*t again.

EDIT: also I've watched most Derby games this year - what they say has grains of truth. His football IQ isn't as advanced as Sterlings so he has some way to go in his decision making, but you don't become the championships best dribbler (in terms of stats) and score a decent return at such a young age by being sh*t. He has been one of their standout players by a good margin. I mean, hell, in 20 games they made a 19 year old their primary corner taker. Consistent in good chance creation and take ons, constantly looking to make something happen. Weak at crossing, but that doesn't really matter in our team.

Ah that's far more encouraging. Honestly I haven't seen anything but highlights from him at Derby; he did look awesome but then again many players can look good on highlights.

Talking about young wingers in the championship, where is Tom Ince? I quite liked the look of him at Blackpool...

Ah that's far more encouraging. Honestly I haven't seen anything but highlights from him at Derby; he did look awesome but then again many players can look good on highlights.

Talking about young wingers in the championship, where is Tom Ince? I quite liked the look of him at Blackpool...

Just been recalled to Hull after a fairly meh loan with Nottingham Forest. We're finally getting our money for him though (half a million rising to 750,000 if Hull don't get relegated) as the court ordered Hull to pay Blackpool compensation to which we are owed 35%

We spent a fortune on players in the summer, addressing every part of the team besides a GK. most of them have underperformed.

At this point in time I'm not going to blame FSG's reluctance to spend big.

Cheers John.

Sorry mate, I disagree. I think that both Ibe and Origi are ready for minutes in our team now - and its better now than later. It can hardly be called short termism as it is setting them up for a future career with us. Integrating them early. To me it seems the direct opposite - integrating youth can't ever be considered short termism. Milner is looking at the short term. I'm not suggesting they should play every week, but if a player can't be thrown in the deep end - then they can't play for us, as we are always going to be the deep end.

Take the case of Sterling, thrown in at the deep end is an understatement, he has had to be rested at a vital part of the season because he is in danger of burning himself out. In terms of experience he is superior to both Origi and Ibe. To imagine they can cope adequately with the demands at this level is foolish.

As for the economic point - if we haven't got the money to spend on other players the whole thing seems smart enough to me. The alternative was looking like selling a great player like Lucas to have punt on another talented young thing who may or may not come good.
If you disagree with the premise that our spending is limited by FFP, thats fair enough, but I'd be interested to how you came to that conclusion.

FFP is bollocks - it's one law for Chelsea and different for everyone else.
Never mind Lucas let's talk about Suarez and not replacing his genius but using the fee to acquire half-a-dozen hopefuls to fill the gaps the manager wasn't allowed to after the wage ceiling adjustment requested by JWH & Co.
Selling a great player like Lucas for £7m and having a what?
Sure sounds like PR for JWH & Co.

Take the case of Sterling, thrown in at the deep end is an understatement, he has had to be rested at a vital part of the season because he is in danger of burning himself out. In terms of experience he is superior to both Origi and Ibe. To imagine they can cope adequately with the demands at this level is foolish.

FFP is bollocks - it's one law for Chelsea and different for everyone else.
Never mind Lucas let's talk about Suarez and not replacing his genius but using the fee to acquire half-a-dozen hopefuls to fill the gaps the manager wasn't allowed to after the wage ceiling adjustment requested by JWH & Co.
Selling a great player like Lucas for £7m and having a what?
Sure sounds like PR for JWH & Co.

Re: Sterling. He was thrown in the deep end, but both he and Liverpool are better for it. Ibe and Origi won't get as many games as Sterling so they won't thrown in quite so deep. If you are suggesting they aren't ready for any Prem minutes yet then I thoroughly disagree.

Chelsea cheated by spending a huge amount before FFP became enforced. Selling their loan army every year allows them to spend more but still balance the books. I'm not going to defend how the Suarez money was used because I don't think it was used well. But that's been spent and now we don't have money to spend. It is immaterial to point I am making.

I think you might have misunderstood my Lucas point; If we sell Lucas it would probably to fund money for some hopeful like Berahino. I think it is a much stronger move to keep Lucas and bring back Origi and Ibe. I don't believe we can spend on anything significant this summer.
I am not going to bother responding to the PR comment other than to say that it is beneath you.

He's back so this locked:

Player thread is here:  http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,44075.0.html