Southampton 0:2 Liverpool. In game & post match debate.

I don't think it is a coincidence that all three teams that played in the Europa league on Thursday struggled yesterday, so for us to get an ugly win will do me. I hate this Thursday night sh*t! what team can we put out on Thursday and then Sunday against City? Will take a monumental effort to get a result from both matches.

If we had lost yesterday then I think Brendan would have had no other choice than to field his strongest 11 in every Europa League game we play. Our priority would have turned towards that.

Our win yesterday was massive and we have great momentum in the league right now. All of a sudden our best chances of securing champions league football next season is through the league. I wouldn't be surprised if Brendan gave a few players a rest on Thursday.

Playing in Turkey on Thursday, coming home on Friday and then playing the current champions on Sunday doesn't give you much time to prepare at all!  Although Besiktas will give us a tough game, I think some of our second team players could still do a job there. I can't say Im as confident about them performing V City.  I expect Brendan will make 3 or 4 changes at least.

A win is a win, don't care how we did it. No need for a Hollywood performance for every game won. Bearing in mind, we are still in a transitional period, we are most probably looking at a post Gerrard era team and mistakes here and there will be expected, as long as BR takes quick measure to address that.

Don't meant to sound "us vs them" but if you have such strong opinions don't be so shallow to hide when things turn against your views.

That's exactly how you sound.

If you are going to give him credit for the past few months (as I have) then you have to be critical of his first few months (as I was). 

He rightly deserved criticism of what happened from July to November just as he deserves credit for what has happened December to February.

There are too many people on both sides of the fence here who somehow think that support/criticism of Rodgers should be placed ahead of Liverpool FC. 

Do not know why you think we did not deserve the win the more clinical and dangerous team won.

I will agree to disagree but if you think we deserved to win after penaltys we got away with and possession then you must have watched a different game . The scoreline flattered us fullstop.

What a vital win considering the results of other teams over the weekend. Good to see we can grind out 3 points when needed.
Migs: Quite possibly the most in-form keeper in the league right now. Has always had the shot stopping ability, and now the rest of his game is coming along as well.

Lovren: Absolutely terrible in the 1st, and just ok in the 2nd. I am really waiting for him to step it up and cement that spot so Can can move up. I really was excited when I heard we were signing this guy as I was very impressed with him last year. Biggest disappointment for me so far.

Skrtel: MOTM. Solid as a rock. From the opening game of the season to now, has there been more of a consistent player than him? He's a warrior.

Can: Not his best performance, but he did switch sides so maybe that had something to do with it.

Markovic: Our worst player on the day. Amazes me how he looks so promising for 5 minutes, then can't find a pass/loses possession in one way or another for the next 30. Starting to have my doubts as he is showing a lack of quality, more often than quality.

Hendo: Great shift today. Amazing how energetic he was in the last few minutes, still pressing until the end. That's what a captain does, leads by example.

Allen: Probably our most underrated player on the day. He does the little things that no one on here seems to give him credit for. He always seems to be there on the defensive side, helping out/double teaming/pressing the ball. And offensively, he really keeps the ball moving for us: one side to the next, making the other team constantly shift. Even if it is side to side passing, that helps us spread teams out. His best performance in a while.

Ibe: I didn't think he was as dominating while running with the ball, but he put one hell of a shift in. He's really made that position his own.

Couts: What a goal. I agree he looks a little tired, but he's our most creative player by a country mile. His role in the squad is vital.

Lallana: I really, really rate him. But not good today. Ineffective when he had the ball. I love his energy though.

Sterling: Opportunistic with his goal. I really would like to see him clean up his passing though. His pass to Moreno on the build up to his goal was sloppy, and I feel I say that a lot about him during the games. I would like to see one game where we deploy him as a wingback, with Ibe on the other side. Talk about speed and directness on the wings.

Moreno: Gave us stability that we desperately needed.

Studge: He's always been greedy, that is not going to change. He made an immediate impact though, and we look ten times more dangerous when he's on the pitch.

Johnson: wasted a bit of time with his injury. His best contribution in a while.

Onwards and upwards. City does not scare me, unless we get beat up in away leg on Thursday. Have to say, I do think Southampton are a good side. Quality players and a quality manager. Was surprised how bad Forster was as I really rate him.

Johnson made his long awaited return to the first team and I'd like to say it was great to see him back but we all know it'd be a lie. He better not replace Ibe in the team.

I doubt Glen will replace Ibe, but I do think he will come back into the starting lineup. Most likely at the expense of Allen with Emre pushing into CM and Johnson slotting in at RCB.

That was not a bad game but i think we need to play much better if we are aiming for the top four.We scored two goals from notting,Coutinho scored a great goal but the rest of the team didnt looked like scoring till the last 10mins.Im glad that we got the victory.

I doubt Glen will replace Ibe, but I do think he will come back into the starting lineup. Most likely at the expense of Allen with Emre pushing into CM and Johnson slotting in at RCB.

That would be a disaster. In no way is he fit to play centre back.

I don't say we were lucky to win
 apart from the penalty shouts , which we had one more evident on sterling  they had only one clear chance to score in the first half when simon came out and cleared and maybe some freekicks in the 2nd
 we took 2 of the chances thet came our way
many times before we missed to get points in a game due to our mistakes in defence  or attack
 we did not fluke the win , we took our chances,,,we fought for it so we deserved  it
 So happy with  a hard fought win , any way it comes
 YNWA
 

Allen did not defend properly and was rarely if not never influential when it came to passing.
He did not defend like a DM should/would and his passing did not have any influence on the game. Next time Lucas or Gerrard play as DM just pay more attention to their positioning, the rate at which they ask for the ball and the type of passes they make.  Allen is Allen, every player is unique but when it comes to defending and passing Allen doesn't come even close to the level of other DMs in the league.

I'm not saying Gerrard would have bossed the game but when he plays as DM, although he is average there, he tries his best to defend, would have hardly tackled like Allen(which should have been a penalty - Allen did not even touch the ball), and Gerrard's postionning as DM is much better that Allen's. I do not even have to mention passing.

The role of a DM is to break down attack firstly and then if he is good enough, pass the ball to strikers to start attacks or at least get the ball out of defense without losing possession. Allen hardly did that yesterday. Even Spearing would have played better.

Gerrard has hardly bossed any games for years now but when he plays as DM, he has influence on the game: he defends and passes properly(although the adverb is very weak when taling about Gerrard's passes).

Bizarre post. Allen is great defensively. He has a excellent rate of ball winning (interceptions and tackles) - the criticisms which can be leveled at him are not related to his defensive contribution at all.

I tend to find a fairly strong correlation (not 100% mind) between people who know jack-all about football and people who think players like Allen are sh*te. Lucas had to become the best DM in the league (and he has been by a good margin this season) before people gave him any credit. My heart bleeds for the water-carriers.

That said, I wouldn't give him man of the match for this game, because though he was good, there were several players who were better (Skrtel, Migs, Henderson)

I doubt Glen will replace Ibe, but I do think he will come back into the starting lineup. Most likely at the expense of Allen with Emre pushing into CM and Johnson slotting in at RCB.

I doubt it. Rodgers tends not to rotate much. The back 3 is proven. Barring an injury that seems unlikely.

Bizarre post. Allen is great defensively. He has a excellent rate of ball winning (interceptions and tackles) - the criticisms which can be leveled at him are not related to his defensive contribution at all.

I tend to find a fairly strong correlation (not 100% mind) between people who know jack-all about football and people who think players like Allen are sh*te. Lucas had to become the best DM in the league (and he has been by a good margin this season) before people gave him any credit. My heart bleeds for the water-carriers.

That said, I wouldn't give him man of the match for this game, because though he was good, there were several players who were better (Skrtel, Migs, Henderson)

Allen isn't the man you're making him out to be, so if someone doesn't rate Joe Allen they are stupid? Lmao.

Allen isn't the man you're making him out to be, so if someone doesn't rate Joe Allen they are stupid? Lmao.

No, its not 100% correlation. But anyone not engaging in hyperbole recognizes he is "decent". Its more a point about people who don't understand football underrating DMs. Or even that people who underrate DMs tend not to understand football. The watercarrier rarely gets the recognition they deserve.


Edit: perhaps I'm being harsh - it is fairly easy to see why people underrate their own team's DM. I lived with a few Saints fans last year. They absolutely couldn't stand Wanyama. I've always thought he was quite decent. But it makes sense; we see our attacks snuffed out by Wanyama and they see a player who offers little going forward.
Throughout the last game we felt like there were times when we were on the ropes - Southampton fans didn't see it that way. They felt frustrated and like they never actually troubled our goal (and they reckon they should have had 3 pens but thats beside the point). We are geared to notice our attacks and the other teams defense perhaps.

I doubt it. Rodgers tends not to rotate much. The back 3 is proven. Barring an injury that seems unlikely.

If you consider Can as a CB, then we only have 2 fit CM's right now and we have games coming thick and fast. We will need to rotate players here and there just to keep legs fresh. Moving Johnson into RCB and Can into midfield will allow us to do so.

Also, let's not forget that BR has already played Glen in this role a few times already this season, so it's not that far fetched....

No, its not 100% correlation. But anyone not engaging in hyperbole recognizes he is "decent". Its more a point about people who don't understand football underrating DMs. Or even that people who underrate DMs tend not to understand football. The watercarrier rarely gets the recognition they deserve.


Edit: perhaps I'm being harsh - it is fairly easy to see why people underrate their own team's DM. I lived with a few Saints fans last year. They absolutely couldn't stand Wanyama. I've always thought he was quite decent. But it makes sense; we see our attacks snuffed out by Wanyama and they see a player who offers little going forward.
Throughout the last game we felt like there were times when we were on the ropes - Southampton fans didn't see it that way. They felt frustrated and like they never actually troubled our goal (and they reckon they should have had 3 pens but thats beside the point). We are geared to notice our attacks and the other teams defense perhaps.

I've stuck up for Joe Allen so much that it's become a chore because I don't actually believe he's that good.
I will say I might miss the nuances he provides maybe? God knows.
He's not the level of player Liverpool require, then someone will say he's good to have in the squad.

I've stuck up for Joe Allen so much that it's become a chore because I don't actually believe he's that good.
I will say I might miss the nuances he provides maybe? God knows.
He's not the level of player Liverpool require, then someone will say he's good to have in the squad.

Here's some statistical analysis (not the be all and end all but gives us a good overview); http://tinyurl.com/pn44v4r
He holds up well compared to the best DMs in the league for everything save aerial duels (challenge for anyone interested; find me a player with atleast 500 minutes who has a worse aerial duel rate than Allen in the prem) - in fact he even offers the most going forward!

He is a decent player. He'll never be first choice whilst we have Lucas, but I'm glad we have a decent back-up in Allen.

Edit: Statistical analysis is the wrong word. I mean Comparision

No, its not 100% correlation. But anyone not engaging in hyperbole recognizes he is "decent". Its more a point about people who don't understand football underrating DMs. Or even that people who underrate DMs tend not to understand football. The watercarrier rarely gets the recognition they deserve.

"Decent" being the right word.

We already have a better "Water Carrier" in Henderson.
Lucas is a world ahead in terms of DM.
Gerrard is a world ahead in terms of creativity.
Can is already a better utility CB/DM.

Allen, let's be honest here, isn't good enough.

Hey Thaddeus.. are these stats the last games or overall? Thank you btw.

He won £2.99 tackles.. someone owes me that money, he earns at least what? 60 thousand a week, that always puts life in perspective for me.

"Decent" being the right word.

We already have a better "Water Carrier" in Henderson.
Lucas is a world ahead in terms of DM.
Gerrard is a world ahead in terms of creativity.
Can is already a better utility CB/DM.

Allen, let's be honest here, isn't good enough.

I don't actually rate Can as a DM. Much more a marauding CM. His ball winning (tackles and interceptions) always drops off when he moves to the midfield and his creativity (dribbles and key passes) always spikes. Its an offensive move to play Can in midfield over Allen, and the inverse defensive. Lucas is the best DM in the league so no debates there. Gerrard is ahead in creativity but makes us so much more defensively vulnerable that I don't think he is a viable option in central midfield anymore. Henderson is a different kind of water carrier - he isn't there to shield the defense - he facilitates play all over the pitch.

Long term Allen will always be third choice in the current system (hopefully 4th choice depending on summer purchases), but 3rd/4th choice isn't a bad place to be when there are two positions available. He is definitely good enough to be 3rd or 4th choice here.
 

Hey Thaddeus.. are these stats the last games or overall? Thank you btw.

Overall mate.

Here's some statistical analysis (not the be all and end all but gives us a good overview); http://tinyurl.com/pn44v4r
He holds up well compared to the best DMs in the league for everything save aerial duels (challenge for anyone interested; find me a player with atleast 500 minutes who has a worse aerial duel rate than Allen in the prem) - in fact he even offers the most going forward!

He is a decent player. He'll never be first choice whilst we have Lucas, but I'm glad we have a decent back-up in Allen.

Edit: Statistical analysis is the wrong word. I mean Comparision

Your wasting your time mate, people have made up their minds and even if the evidence in his contribution is contrary to those views peeps will stick make something up to back up their views.

Given that he is being asked by Rodgers to act as a defensive shield to the defence and our results since he has been tasked with this puts us top of the form league not sure what else he can do.

He is doing exactly what Lucas does albeit only difference being he is not as good as Lucas at retrieving the ball or in his aerial ability but no other DM in the league compares to lucas in those catergories.

Overall mate.

Quite amazing, I still don't get the guy, I stood up for him (past tense) now I don't care if he goes.