Summer Transfers IN/OUT

James Cooper (SkySports)
'Transfer Number 7 for Liverpool not far away either as LFC in market for an out and out striker.'

Liverpool are also favourites to sign Inter Milan midfielder Mateo Kovacic and Zenit forward Salomon Rondon as Rodgers rebuilds following a disappointing sixth-place finish in the Premier League last season.

There have been darker days

Lest we forget

NSFW

There have been darker days

Lest we forget

NSFW

Sad thing is there will have been some people who were excited at the time about seeing that photo. What's probably even worse than that is I was probably one of them  .

I beg to differ on this. Lucas, Busquet, Makelele types are pure defensive players that keep the ball ticking well and simple, where as Alonso, Schweinsteiger, Kroos types are similar but more creative than your usually defensive midfielder. From what I have seen of Illara, I feel he falls into the latter category and far more than a pure defensive midfielder.

Hence why I said he is a lot closer to that type of player I never said he was a pure defensive midfielder. I fully acknowledge that he is more than that. However the Alonso, Schweinsteiger, Kroos, Pirlo, Fabregas, Carrick and any other Examples you and I could come up with they are orchestrators, conductors, they run football games and all their team's play goes through them. You stop them you stop the rest of the team.

Perhaps a more apt comparison for Illarramendi would be Hargreaves (before his knees turned to marshmallows). Both are energetic, get around the pitch, put their foot in and are capable of putting their foot on the ball and pinging a pass but they're not going to step on the field, pull strings and dictate the tempo of the match.

Hence why I said he is a lot closer to that type of player I never said he was a pure defensive midfielder. I fully acknowledge that he is more than that. However the Alonso, Schweinsteiger, Kroos, Pirlo, Fabregas, Carrick and any other Examples you and I could come up with they are orchestrators, conductors, they run football games and all their team's play goes through them. You stop them you stop the rest of the team.

Couldn't agree more, and with the deep lying playmaker being shut down, this is where a #10 or perhaps your secondary midfielder should take authority.
Currently, the closest we have to a conductor is Lucas, but certainly not good enough if we want a deep lying playmaker. I feel Gerrard could've been moulded into an exceptional one when Alonso left and perhaps, still be playing in our midfield today if that had happened, but it just never did

Perhaps a more apt comparison for Illarramendi would be Hargreaves (before his knees turned to marshmallows). Both are energetic, get around the pitch, put their foot in and are capable of putting their foot on the ball and pinging a pass but they're not going to step on the field, pull strings and dictate the tempo of the match.

Since Illara joined Real and whenever he's played, he hasn't been the main midfieider and most of the play doesn't go through him, he has been over shadowed by either Kroos, Alonso or Modric (understandably) which is such a shame because I believe he certainly has the potential and ability to become a conductor. I just think he needs a team and manager to trust in him. He is so wasted at Real, same with Isco

Couldn't agree more, and with the deep lying playmaker being shut down, this is where a #10 or perhaps your secondary midfielder should take authority.
Currently, the closest we have to a conductor is Lucas, but certainly not good enough if we want a deep lying playmaker. I feel Gerrard could've been moulded into an exceptional one when Alonso left and perhaps, still be playing in our midfield today if that had happened, but it just never did

Since Illara joined Real and whenever he's played, he hasn't been the main midfieider and most of the play doesn't go through him, he has been over shadowed by either Kroos, Alonso or Modric (understandably) which is such a shame because I believe he certainly has the potential and ability to become a conductor. I just think he needs a team and manager to trust in him. He is so wasted at Real, same with Isco

In time I think he could step up and boss games I do rate the lad very highly I just think that if we signed him as he is now and he was on the team sheet on  the 8th of August he wouldn't fill that gaping Xabi sized hole we've had in our midfield for the last 6 years. I still think he's very much a work in progress he's just a lot closer to the finished article than an Allen or a Henderson or any other central midfielder we've bought since Xabi and Masch left.

In time I think he could step up and boss games I do rate the lad very highly I just think that if we signed him as he is now and he was on the team sheet on  the 8th of August he wouldn't fill that gaping Xabi sized hole we've had in our midfield for the last 6 years. I still think he's very much a work in progress he's just a lot closer to the finished article than an Allen or a Henderson or any other central midfielder we've bought since Xabi and Masch left.

Could not agree more. I just hope we'll take a "gamble" on him because at a reported 16m-20m, I think it would be silly to overlook it. As much as I love Lucas, realistically, he's not gonna be consistently available throughout the season, so I do think we need another defensive ball player.

Could not agree more. I just hope we'll take a "gamble" on him because at a reported 16m-20m, I think it would be silly to overlook it. As much as I love Lucas, realistically, he's not gonna be consistently available throughout the season, so I do think we need another defensive ball player.

Oh definitely for that kind of money I'd let him piggyback me from the Bernabeu to Anfield it's tremendous "value". Plus we've been way too soft in the middle of the park and he'd go towards correcting that as he's a much better fit for that position than any of our other players. Having Illarramendi to sit there, shield and work the ball would benefit us and his presence would get the best out of the players around him. Milner isn't an anchor, Can isn't an anchor, Henderson isn't an anchor, Allen, bless him, isn't really anything so getting the Illarramendi deal over the line would be a great bit of business.

There have been darker days

Lest we forget

NSFW

They all look a bit related.

They all look a bit related.

I think they all just had the same look of shock on their face that they were getting a paycheque at the end of the week.

with arrival of clyne to hopefully be annouced shortly do we think a LB is needed and sell Enrique or just stick with what we have, also do we really need a DM if we have Can, Lucas.

i hope come wednesday we start seeing some outgoings, Borini,alberto,Coates, Ballotelli,Lambert,Allen

We should get rid of the deadwood as fast as possible. Sell Allen, Enrique, Lovren, Lambert, Borini, Ilori, Alberto, Coates and end Manquillo's loan.

also do we really need a DM if we have Can, Lucas.

Can is not a defensive midfielder, and it would be stupid to play him there.... unless you want us to concede more goals than last season? :p

We should get rid of the deadwood as fast as possible. Sell Allen, Enrique, Lovren, Lambert, Borini, Ilori, Alberto, Coates and end Manquillo's loan.

How exactly is Ilori deadwood?

Can is not a defensive midfielder, and it would be stupid to play him there.... unless you want us to concede more goals than last season? :p

Wait, what?

Wait, what?

I think he's our weakest defensive midfielder we have. Allen, Lucas, Milner and Hendo are all better than him when it comes to defensive play unfortunately

I think he's our weakest defensive midfielder we have. Allen, Lucas, Milner and Hendo are all better than him when it comes to defensive play unfortunately

Are you for real? The guy who played well for us as a CB is not good defensively? And you think Allen is better? 

  

Are you for real? The guy who played well for us as a CB is not good defensively? And you think Allen is better? 

  

100% serious. I think CB and a forward thinking CM would be ideal for him.

The U21 tournament has highlighted Can's defensive flaws when he has played in midfield, even with a more defensive partner next to him. Originally, I think the U21 German manager wanted Can the more defensive with Leitner as the more offensive, but it didn't work out in the first 45 mins of the opening game, so he replaced Leitner with Kimmich and switched Can to a more offensive role which has been working out thus far.

Allen is better because his attributes are more catered for the defensive side. He is agile, harries the opposition better, quicker burst, decent at nicking the ball, better short passer and positionally more astute due to his experience. I just feel Can's attributes doesn't suit him as the main DM.

I am curious, what do you see that makes Can > Allen in the DM role, or good enough to play as our main DM?

100% serious. I think CB and a forward thinking CM would be ideal for him.

The U21 tournament has highlighted Can's defensive flaws when he has played in midfield, even with a more defensive partner next to him. Originally, I think the U21 German manager wanted Can the more defensive with Leitner as the more offensive, but it didn't work out in the first 45 mins of the opening game, so he replaced Leitner with Kimmich and switched Can to a more offensive role which has been working out thus far.

Allen is better because his attributes are more catered for the defensive side. He is agile, harries the opposition better, quicker burst, decent at nicking the ball, better short passer and positionally more astute due to his experience. I just feel Can's attributes doesn't suit him as the main DM.

I am curious, what do you see that makes Can > Allen in the DM role, or good enough to play as our main DM?

Last season is a testament to what he can do as a DM. The few times I saw him make runs forward he was great. And defensively he was an engine and work horse and I thought he did a fantastic job defensively. Arguably our best defender the whole season. I am sorry but there is no player on this planet that can cope as CB but can't cope with being a DM because he isn't good defensively. Makes no sense. So he is good at CB but can't play DM because he isn't as good defensively? Its an oxymoron no doubt.

To say Allen is better when Allen barely played last season, and Can was a regular is absolutely insane. If Allen is better defensively why didn't he play as a CB last season?

I could give a flying F**k what Can does with the German U21 side. I just care about what he does in an LFC shirt. He should play as a DM next season, either alone or with 2 DM's if we choose to play 4-2-3-1. And I have heard the same from just about every LFC fan I know.

Absolutely ridiculous saying Allen is better than him in the DM role.

Last season is a testament to what he can do as a DM. The few times I saw him make runs forward he was great.

How many games did he play as a DM? As for the marauding runs, it's a good indicator that CM could be his position as he likes to attack.

And defensively he was an engine and work horse

CB/RCB is not as demanding and did not showcase his fitness. Even when he played midfield, you could see his traits were more in the attacking areas rather than defensive.

Arguably our best defender the whole season.

Skrtel has something to say about that!

I am sorry but there is no player on this planet that can cope as CB but can't cope with being a DM because he isn't good defensively. Makes no sense. So he is good at CB but can't play DM because he isn't as good defensively? Its an oxymoron no doubt.

Metersacker, Terry, Godin etc.

You should know as a football fan (whether you play or not) that DM requires a different skill set to CB, just because you can make tackles and being positional astute in CB position doesn't mean you are capable of playing DM. And as for being poor defensively, I am referring to his midfield antics, not CB/RCB position.
Perhaps I am over exaggerating on him being poor defensively as a midfielder, but either way, he should not be the main defensive midfielder from what I've seen.

To say Allen is better when Allen barely played last season, and Can was a regular is absolutely insane. If Allen is better defensively why didn't he play as a CB last season?

Allen had some MOTM and good performances as a DM/CM last couple of season, and without looking it up, I'm sure Allen played more than Can in midfield last season?

He should play as a DM next season, either alone or with 2 DM's if we choose to play 4-2-3-1. And I have heard the same from just about every LFC fan I know.

I do not mind having him in midfielder, but not as a DM, he really needs cover as shown when he's played for us and the U21's.

Perhaps one day Can will become a defensive midfielder, who knows? But for now, he has the right traits to become a beastly CB or perhaps very good CM. All depends on the manager and how he wants to nurture him.

How many games did he play as a DM? As for the marauding runs, it's a good indicator that CM could be his position as he likes to attack.

CB/RCB is not as demanding and did not showcase his fitness. Even when he played midfield, you could see his traits were more in the attacking areas rather than defensive.

Skrtel has something to say about that!

Metersacker, Terry, Godin etc.

You should know as a football fan (whether you play or not) that DM requires a different skill set to CB, just because you can make tackles and being positional astute in CB position doesn't mean you are capable of playing DM. And as for being poor defensively, I am referring to his midfield antics, not CB/RCB position.
Perhaps I am over exaggerating on him being poor defensively as a midfielder, but either way, he should not be the main defensive midfielder from what I've seen.

Allen had some MOTM and good performances as a DM/CM last couple of season, and without looking it up, I'm sure Allen played more than Can in midfield last season?

I do not mind having him in midfielder, but not as a DM, he really needs cover as shown when he's played for us and the U21's.

Perhaps one day Can will become a defensive midfielder, who knows? But for now, he has the right traits to become a beastly CB or perhaps very good CM. All depends on the manager and how he wants to nurture him.

I am saying he has the attributes from last season to show he can play DM. The extreme defensive duties he did last season plus some of the passes and runs I saw him make when he did get forward a few times. Both traits a DM needs.

CB is not as demanding as DM? In what ways? I am sorry but nothing is more demanding defensively then being the last line of defense. Midfield antics? You claim he isn't good defensively in the DM position and that is what I am calling you out on, not midfield antics. Don't change your story midway through the debate.

I played my whole life as well as I had offers to play in college. I played every defensive position and DM on occasion. For me, I found the DM position a little more easier. You run around more but for me it wasn't as hard as commanding from the back as a CB must do.

As for the Mertesacker, Terry, etc. First of all Mertesacker is slow as f**k and he could not play DM solely because he doesn't have any pace, not because he lacks defense. Terry is/was a stud at CB why on earth would you want to move him to DM. Never saw Chelsea even remotely do that.

Allen barely f**king played, not one game did I see him as MOTM on any occasion. He isn't very strong in the tackle and to me is not very impressive. It doesn't matter who played in the midfield more last season. Can was bought by us as a DM. Rodgers needed a CB and Can stepped in. Just goes to show how the kids attitude is and how versatile he is.

Your statement is still so flawed by saying Can isn't good enough as a DM because he isn't good defensively even though he excelled at the CB position this past season.

Lets take this into the Can player thread

After Clyne we should go for Chicharito, Benteke and Illaramendi.