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      James Milner Player Thread (M) (Liverpool > Brighton & HA)

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      Diego LFC
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      Re: James Milner Player Thread
      Reply #690: Apr 16, 2016 04:20:35 pm
      Considering I've been discussing him on the wrong thread, thought it was time to get back in here.

      Football is a complicated game. You can't evaluate a player in a vacuum and as fans we often tend to do that, and isolate them from context - usually in order to criticize players who for some reason we're not big fans of. I am guilty of that as much as anyone, by the way.

      In Milner's case, I think his problems at LFC are that he's often asked to do far more than he should. In a "healthier", more balanced team, he could be the workhorse who will cover large amounts of space with a very good delivery from wide areas, and that can do a job on pretty much every position on the pitch if required - he's that disciplined and professional. At LFC, he's often asked to do all that plus to be the main creative link in our midfield; to get the ball deep and spread it to a frequently dysfunctional attacking side.

      I would have loved to watch Milner play for a Rafa Benitez side, for example. Even an inferior and limited player like Jermaine Pennant had good moments at LFC under him - he was arguably our best player in Athens 2007 - and I wonder the kind of impact someone like Milner could have had. At the time we were a far more balanced side with more clearly defined roles. Players were not asked to do too much or try too much. Even Riera could look good on occasions. Add Riera to our current team and I can't think of him being anything other than useless.

      I look forward to seeing who Klopp will bring to this squad and to see it develop into a more consistent team. Then those who are being asked to do too much - like Can, who's far better playing quick simple passes forwards then striding forward with the ball, or Coutinho, who shouldn't feel the pressure to save the day week in week out - can focus on what they do best.
      mcarz
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      Re: James Milner Player Thread
      Reply #691: Apr 16, 2016 05:04:19 pm
      Considering I've been discussing him on the wrong thread, thought it was time to get back in here.

      Football is a complicated game. You can't evaluate a player in a vacuum and as fans we often tend to do that, and isolate them from context - usually in order to criticize players who for some reason we're not big fans of. I am guilty of that as much as anyone, by the way.

      In Milner's case, I think his problems at LFC are that he's often asked to do far more than he should. In a "healthier", more balanced team, he could be the workhorse who will cover large amounts of space with a very good delivery from wide areas, and that can do a job on pretty much every position on the pitch if required - he's that disciplined and professional. At LFC, he's often asked to do all that plus to be the main creative link in our midfield; to get the ball deep and spread it to a frequently dysfunctional attacking side.

      I would have loved to watch Milner play for a Rafa Benitez side, for example. Even an inferior and limited player like Jermaine Pennant had good moments at LFC under him - he was arguably our best player in Athens 2007 - and I wonder the kind of impact someone like Milner could have had. At the time we were a far more balanced side with more clearly defined roles. Players were not asked to do too much or try too much. Even Riera could look good on occasions. Add Riera to our current team and I can't think of him being anything other than useless.

      I look forward to seeing who Klopp will bring to this squad and to see it develop into a more consistent team. Then those who are being asked to do too much - like Can, who's far better playing quick simple passes forwards then striding forward with the ball, or Coutinho, who shouldn't feel the pressure to save the day week in week out - can focus on what they do best.

      The problems I have with Milner are mainly brought to light when he's playing centre mid. There's pressing and then there's going walkabouts. Henderson does this too. There were numerous times against Dortmund in the first half when Milner would be found at left back with Can occupying the entire central midfield area on his own and it enabled them to stroll right through the middle of our team.

      He also seems too slow to react when the ball is being passed around him, he commits to running towards the ball almost immediately and before you know it the ball is 10 yards away from him and he's left having to chase it again.

      We haven't quite mastered the pressing style as a team yet. People aren't waking up and covering the huge gaps in certain areas when somebody else commits to pressing.

      federer
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      Re: James Milner Player Thread
      Reply #692: Apr 17, 2016 09:10:18 am
      It doesn't really matter if he played sh*t or not, what matters he delivered that cross to earn us the winning goal.

      Rubbish.  Of course it matters if he played like sh*te.  Why does it matter?  Because we judge players not on one game, but on trends.  And if you play like sh*te, 9 games out of 10 bad things will happen.  Whereas if you play well, 9 games out of 10 good things will happen.  Milner had an awful game.  He had two assists.  Ok.  It gets back to the age old question, can you have a bad game, but then have a couple of good monents and end up having a good game?  this happened a few years back when we played Leicester, Stevie had a schocker but scored an important goal and suddenly he had "a good game."  No he didn't.  He had a bad game, with one good moment.  Same with Milner.  He had a bad game, with a couple of important moments.  And if we're honest the assists weren't even that special, that flick to Coutinho, anyone could've done it, the cross for Lovren was just a blind hope.

      And the rest of the game?  Well he was where to be seen as Dortmund ran riot through our midfield (of which he was part).  It was an incredible comeback but of course we only needed an incredible comeback because we dug ourselves a huge hole early on by playing like sh*te.  His corners and set pieces on the night were absolutely atrocious, the crowd were really getting on him.  And as the "captain" of the team, why was he not laying into everyone after the first goal, telling them to be organized and get tight?

      It's a similar situation Sakho.  Did he have "a good game"?  He was at fault for both of their first goals, absolutely woeful defending.  But later, he scored an important goal; so does that nullify how awfully he defended the other 99% of the game?  Of course not!

      And therein lies the rub.  If Milner plays like that consistently (and he does, just go look through his player thread to see everyone asking what on earth he contributes), then 9 games out of 10 nothing good will happen.  Same thing with Sakho.  If he keeps playing like that, 9 games out of 10 it will cost us goals, and 9 games out of 10 he won't score a goal to bail himself (and us) out.

      And take your bullshit advice for like 'we need a town cryer in the stands' and 'the Kop should wear Timmy Mallett glasses' or whatever bullshit you come up with as suggestions to make Anfield louder (but we all know it's just an attempt to belittle the Anfield atmosphere and compare it to your home ground Stamford Bridge). Hope you had your ears tuned in last night because THAT was noise. That was Anfield. But you wouldn't know would you.

      Actually I've got quite a bit to say about this, will post it in the Anfield atmosphere thread as Milner's thread probably isn't the best place.
      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
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      Re: James Milner Player Thread
      Reply #693: Apr 18, 2016 06:42:10 pm
      And therein lies the rub.  If Milner plays like that consistently (and he does, just go look through his player thread to see everyone asking what on earth he contributes), then 9 games out of 10 nothing good will happen.

      I'm sorry Fed, I can't accept what you're saying. 

      First, your suggestion that the fact that people criticise him in his player thread MEANS that he IS playing badly.
         Many fans criticise in the heat of the moment, without the analytical nous of someone who KNOWS the game, watches from the standpoint of experience, and perhaps has played to any level.  I haven't, but I know two lads who have, as pros.  They both say that without Milner we'd be relegation fodder, because he's the kind of player who gets his 'hands dirty' and allows more creative, technical players (and I'm certainly not saying he isn't creative or technical!) to play their game.  He gets criticised for things like 'having no end product' (how many assists?!), 'losing the ball,' (who do we have who doesn't deserve that one?), going missing in the middle (he isn't a CM, and we all know he's ineffective when played there - hardly his fault),  appearing a bit clumsy (OK he's not elegant a la Digger Barnes, but I don't mind - elegance doesn't always equate to quality in my book), and his poor set-piece delivery (and again, who have we got who IS reliable in that respect?).

      Second, your ..."9 out of 10 games nothing good will happen" comment is clearly nonsense when you consider the contribution Milner has made in the last 10 games.  Assists, goals, some great wins - Man Utd, Dortmund, Stoke, Man City, Palace, Bournemouth, the draw v Spurs - have you actually watched any of those?

      Third, he never lets anything stand in the way of doing his damndest to help his team win football matches.  He never disappears when fans get on his back, never sulks, never rants at refs or team-mates, never shirks a challenge, never passes-on responsibility and never takes to Twatter to tell the world what a wonderful human being he is, or someone else isn't.  He's professional in the old-fashioned sense, and so much of his good play goes unnoticed because he isn't naturally spectacular, and doesn't seek attention.  He's the kind of player every team needs; and every winning team has. 

      I have to say that a lot of fans strike me as ignorant about the nitty-gritty of football, and seem to think its like a game of FIFA in many respects. 

      I know you cop a fair bit of stick for some of your posts, mate, sometimes you deserve it.  But there's odd occasions when I actually think you might have a point.

      Sadly, this isn't one of them.

      He's a proper player.  Right now, I wouldn't swap him.
      Arab Scouse
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      Re: James Milner Player Thread
      Reply #694: Apr 20, 2016 08:57:03 pm
      As much as people can criticise him or whatever

      but then again he produced 2 beautiful sexy crosses tonight
      Arab Scouse
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      Re: James Milner Player Thread
      Reply #695: Apr 20, 2016 09:01:23 pm
      Rubbish.  Of course it matters if he played like sh*te.  Why does it matter?  Because we judge players not on one game, but on trends.  And if you play like sh*te, 9 games out of 10 bad things will happen.  Whereas if you play well, 9 games out of 10 good things will happen.  Milner had an awful game.  He had two assists.  Ok.  It gets back to the age old question, can you have a bad game, but then have a couple of good monents and end up having a good game?  this happened a few years back when we played Leicester, Stevie had a schocker but scored an important goal and suddenly he had "a good game."  No he didn't.  He had a bad game, with one good moment.  Same with Milner.  He had a bad game, with a couple of important moments.  And if we're honest the assists weren't even that special, that flick to Coutinho, anyone could've done it, the cross for Lovren was just a blind hope.

      And the rest of the game?  Well he was where to be seen as Dortmund ran riot through our midfield (of which he was part).  It was an incredible comeback but of course we only needed an incredible comeback because we dug ourselves a huge hole early on by playing like sh*te.  His corners and set pieces on the night were absolutely atrocious, the crowd were really getting on him.  And as the "captain" of the team, why was he not laying into everyone after the first goal, telling them to be organized and get tight?

      It's a similar situation Sakho.  Did he have "a good game"?  He was at fault for both of their first goals, absolutely woeful defending.  But later, he scored an important goal; so does that nullify how awfully he defended the other 99% of the game?  Of course not!

      And therein lies the rub.  If Milner plays like that consistently (and he does, just go look through his player thread to see everyone asking what on earth he contributes), then 9 games out of 10 nothing good will happen.  Same thing with Sakho.  If he keeps playing like that, 9 games out of 10 it will cost us goals, and 9 games out of 10 he won't score a goal to bail himself (and us) out.

      Actually I've got quite a bit to say about this, will post it in the Anfield atmosphere thread as Milner's thread probably isn't the best place.

       But at that moment I couldn't care less if he played like sh^t or not, it's BECAUSE OF HIM we ended up winning the game, his cross to Lovren was perfect and I only care about the final outcome. You want to criticise his performance, fine but don't take away the fact his cross gave us the final outcome. You always look for negatives and never for positives, most of us know Milner is an average squad player not a first team player but we also know he is playing at his best, which means he turns in a decent shift and some good crosses here and there, so I'm not going to take away his moments and just bash him over and over again, it's frankly ridiculous because he becomes a scapegoat.
      BarneyLFC
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      Re: James Milner Player Thread
      Reply #696: Apr 20, 2016 10:10:07 pm
      He just keeps on getting assists. 11 in the league now. Brilliant return.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: James Milner Player Thread
      Reply #697: Apr 20, 2016 10:11:13 pm
      Again industrious...

      Reminds me of Kuyt..
      bmck
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      Re: James Milner Player Thread
      Reply #698: Apr 20, 2016 10:41:09 pm
      Really good tonight. My MOTM. Well in James !  Maybe though fly them corners in just over the first man ;)
      LondonRed83
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      Re: James Milner Player Thread
      Reply #699: Apr 20, 2016 10:41:20 pm
      Our captain tonight was well up for it. You could tell from the initial challenges he put in.

      The second assist was sublime, with that delightful little run and dink.

      Superb.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: James Milner Player Thread
      Reply #700: Apr 20, 2016 10:42:18 pm
      Again industrious...

      Reminds me of Kuyt..

      He totally does. We've missed that grit and determination and never say die attitude.

      Captains performance by Milly this evening!
      waltonl4
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      Re: James Milner Player Thread
      Reply #701: Apr 20, 2016 10:45:24 pm
      he has taken a bit of time to appreciate but recently as our form has improved so as he so there has to be a connection. more than happy to praise the lad for his recent performances they have been outstanding long may it continue
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: James Milner Player Thread
      Reply #702: Apr 20, 2016 10:47:35 pm
      he has taken a bit of time to appreciate but recently as our form has improved so as he so there has to be a connection. more than happy to praise the lad for his recent performances they have been outstanding long may it continue

      Spot on Walt.

      As one of his critics he's really serving it up to me with performances like that because it was sublime.

      Well in Milly, fantastic display.
      FL Red
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      Re: James Milner Player Thread
      Reply #703: Apr 21, 2016 12:12:29 am
      I started really rating him and his signing, then went lukewarm and even soured on him a bit because he's not flashy. Well, he doesn't need to be. Think he is what Hendo is supposed to be. Nice run of form for Milly.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: James Milner Player Thread
      Reply #704: Apr 21, 2016 12:21:22 am
      Again industrious...

      Reminds me of Kuyt..

      He does.
      And I loved Kuyt so I've been a fan of Milner for a long time.
      Love to see him doing well for LFC.

      I just watched the highlights (missed the match) and it looks like Milner could have had something ridiculous like 4 or 5 assists! He made a superb long pass to Firmino in the 1st half and a good cross to Coutinho's feet in the second which could very easily have gone in.

      Does anyone know how many assists he has this season precisely? I'd guess it's around 15
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: James Milner Player Thread
      Reply #705: Apr 21, 2016 12:23:44 am
      Does anyone know how many assists he has this season precisely? I'd guess it's around 15

      They did say 15 in the match Diego (after his 2nd) so I'm guessing that's going to be quite accurate and that stat alone is truly incredible.
      BarneyLFC
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      Re: James Milner Player Thread
      Reply #706: Apr 21, 2016 01:28:02 am
      Does anyone know how many assists he has this season precisely? I'd guess it's around 15

      11 in the league and 3 in Europe. Not sure about the cups.
      Dadorious
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      Re: James Milner Player Thread
      Reply #707: Apr 21, 2016 03:43:46 am
      World class again just like against Dortmund.

      Keep it up James lad we need to find a spot for him on the right permanently.
      BarneyLFC
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      Re: James Milner Player Thread
      Reply #708: Apr 21, 2016 04:12:25 am
      World class again just like against Dortmund.

      Keep it up James lad we need to find a spot for him on the right permanently.

      He wasn't even close to being world class against Dortmund.
      GeorgeRed
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      Re: James Milner Player Thread
      Reply #709: Apr 21, 2016 06:45:00 am
      Fantastic, just fantastic in his last games. His workrate also is incredible, he just keeps on running.
      bigmick
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      Re: James Milner Player Thread
      Reply #710: Apr 21, 2016 09:39:50 am
      Plodder. As I said all along.
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: James Milner Player Thread
      Reply #711: Apr 21, 2016 10:35:03 am
      Good man James!! Think he should take his corners left footed too.
      crouchinho
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      Re: James Milner Player Thread
      Reply #712: Apr 21, 2016 10:35:56 am
      Best delivery in the country at the minute! On both feet, too.

      My fantasy team thanks you, Jimmy :D

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