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      Colin Pascoe sacked

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      waltonl4
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      Re: Colin Pascoe sacked
      Reply #414: Jun 10, 2015 07:00:44 pm
      What's the point here Walton?

      We were on a fantastic run at the time and Brendan praised his assistants as you would expect most competent managers to do.

      So what?

      so you think the bloke who puts the cones out or does the warm ups are the problem this season. the problems are we sold a world class striker and signed a load of crap I dont see how that is Pascoe's or Marsh's fault.
      I also find it interesting that last week 75% wanted him gone but now that his team has been dismantled everything is back on track.
      The fact he hasn't said anything in the media means things are not good with his relationship with FSG.  Stevie is  surprised and so are a lot of ex players FSG are now calling all the shots and that is deeply disturbing. This has to be the quietest Brendan has been in his 3 years here.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Colin Pascoe sacked
      Reply #415: Jun 10, 2015 07:02:12 pm
      What you say is fine Debs if Brendan was the one sacking his number two or if Pascoe moved on himself but I think its more likely the change was imposed on him from above.

      agreed my concern is Brendan didnt have a choice well he did but he decided to keep his own job. The last thing we need is FSG getting involve din football matters
      reddebs
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      Re: Colin Pascoe sacked
      Reply #416: Jun 10, 2015 07:04:48 pm
      What you say is fine Debs if Brendan was the one sacking his number two or if Pascoe moved on himself but I think its more likely the change was imposed on him from above.

      I get that Si and I'm not disputing that that's probably how it went down but if Brendan can ditch his Mrs for an upgrade I don't see him being an emotional wreck at losing his Assistant. 

      That's not a personal attack on him by the way  ;D
      srslfc
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      Re: Colin Pascoe sacked
      Reply #417: Jun 10, 2015 07:10:48 pm
      so you think the bloke who puts the cones out or does the warm ups are the problem this season.

      No. And never had done and posted about it plenty of times on here.

      But I'm not sure why you wouldn't expect Brendan to praise his staff after a great run.

      reddebs
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      Re: Colin Pascoe sacked
      Reply #418: Jun 10, 2015 07:12:17 pm
      so you think the bloke who puts the cones out or does the warm ups are the problem this season. the problems are we sold a world class striker and signed a load of crap I dont see how that is Pascoe's or Marsh's fault.
      I also find it interesting that last week 75% wanted him gone but now that his team has been dismantled everything is back on track.
      The fact he hasn't said anything in the media means things are not good with his relationship with FSG.  Stevie is  surprised and so are a lot of ex players FSG are now calling all the shots and that is deeply disturbing. This has to be the quietest Brendan has been in his 3 years here.


      I think you're reaching a little there mate.

      Maybe the reason Brendan agreed to remove him is because he needs more from his team than putting the F***ing cones out.  He's expressed his frustrations about the lack of training time on many occasions so don't you think if he had a "better team" around him a lot of that extra work could have been delegated?

      Nobody is saying things are "back on track" because we don't know yet what or where the track is going and some of us are prepared to wait and see what comes of it before praising or condemning the change.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Colin Pascoe sacked
      Reply #419: Jun 10, 2015 07:20:18 pm
      I think you're reaching a little there mate.

      Maybe the reason Brendan agreed to remove him is because he needs more from his team than putting the f**king cones out.  He's expressed his frustrations about the lack of training time on many occasions so don't you think if he had a "better team" around him a lot of that extra work could have been delegated?

      Nobody is saying things are "back on track" because we don't know yet what or where the track is going and some of us are prepared to wait and see what comes of it before praising or condemning the change.

      he said his team were great last season so what has changed. 75% wanted him gone I dont know what to believe from this forum anymore.
      I am pleased they have gone they should never have been anywhere near the club along with Brendan and I hear more and more now even from players the Luis was the biggest influence on last seasons 2nd place so forgive me if my Agenda of wanting Liverpool FC to be succesful gets in the way of those who think Brendans charming ways will lead to success because they will not.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Colin Pascoe sacked
      Reply #420: Jun 10, 2015 07:27:14 pm
      Luis was the biggest influence on last seasons 2nd place

      The manager takes the glory when things go well and the heat when things go bad.

      In your mind Brendan takes gets no glory for the 2nd place but it 100% to blame for finishing in 6th

      So was it Kenny's fault or Luis's fault for finishing 7th in 2012? or do you have some one else to blame for that year?

      What a crock of sh*t.
      Swab
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      Re: Colin Pascoe sacked
      Reply #421: Jun 10, 2015 07:28:06 pm
      I think you're reaching a little there mate.

      Maybe the reason Brendan agreed to remove him is because he needs more from his team than putting the F***ing cones out.  He's expressed his frustrations about the lack of training time on many occasions so don't you think if he had a "better team" around him a lot of that extra work could have been delegated?

      Nobody is saying things are "back on track" because we don't know yet what or where the track is going and some of us are prepared to wait and see what comes of it before praising or condemning the change.

      Too close to the players?
      Too matey and not bollocking them when needed?

      I mean if BR wants to be Mr nice, he needs a nasty (or nastier) assistant, and it seems to me that the management are far too cosy with some of the players.
      First rule of management is to draw a line between yourself and those you are managing.
      I don't think BR has done this, and I don't think Pascoe is the man to do it either.
      Ideally, the assistant should be just enough of an arsehole to the players that they respect and don't want to cross him, and he should also be a buffer between the manager and the players. Again, I don't think this has happened.

      I think it's fine if BR wants to be matey and have a laugh with the players in training, but he also needs a bit of steel in his management team, and a buffer, and I just don't see it.
      Redtrader
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      Re: Colin Pascoe sacked
      Reply #422: Jun 10, 2015 07:29:50 pm
      It has undermined him bigmick. It needed doing though. It all points to things going on that many posters passed comment on. Sounds like the attitude was too relaxed and comfortable, a holiday camp if you like. I think it's a good thing that Pascoe is fu**ed off. The nodding dog is now gone and hopefully a stern assistant will take his place.
      Undermined him indeed, whether it was the owners decision or if they forced Brendan to admit Pascoe was no more than a yes man and clipboard holder, he's been neutered. My own feeling has been that Brendan is an insecure man, who doesn't really know how to handle big vocal personalities, (He had to fawn to and put up with Gerrard and Carragher), and will be dreading who they bring in, because he probably feels people like Pako or Sami will see right through him. This is not going to end well.
      « Last Edit: Jun 10, 2015 11:07:35 pm by Redtrader, Reason: Grammar »
      reddebs
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      Re: Colin Pascoe sacked
      Reply #423: Jun 10, 2015 08:51:45 pm
      he said his team were great last season so what has changed. 75% wanted him gone I dont know what to believe from this forum anymore.
      I am pleased they have gone they should never have been anywhere near the club along with Brendan and I hear more and more now even from players the Luis was the biggest influence on last seasons 2nd place so forgive me if my Agenda of wanting Liverpool FC to be succesful gets in the way of those who think Brendans charming ways will lead to success because they will not.

      Oh come on Walton, of course they were great last season, we were winning, they only had one a game a week to plan for, they had a much smaller squad to work with and barely any injuries. 

      That's a piece of piss to deal with compared to what they've had this season and if they've been little or no help to Brendan, then damn right to get shut. 

      A few weeks ago people were debating whether Brendan had lost the dressing room, that things just didn't feel right within the squad, well maybe it wasn't the players he'd lost but his coaching team?  Lost as in left them behind because he'd outgrown them?

      reddebs
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      Re: Colin Pascoe sacked
      Reply #424: Jun 10, 2015 09:00:32 pm
      Too close to the players?
      Too matey and not bollocking them when needed?

      I mean if BR wants to be Mr nice, he needs a nasty (or nastier) assistant, and it seems to me that the management are far too cosy with some of the players.
      First rule of management is to draw a line between yourself and those you are managing.
      I don't think BR has done this, and I don't think Pascoe is the man to do it either.
      Ideally, the assistant should be just enough of an arsehole to the players that they respect and don't want to cross him, and he should also be a buffer between the manager and the players. Again, I don't think this has happened.

      I think it's fine if BR wants to be matey and have a laugh with the players in training, but he also needs a bit of steel in his management team, and a buffer, and I just don't see it.

      Totally Swab but I'd also add that he needed more from them in terms of new ideas.  I get the feeling they were happy to be in his shadow  ;)
      srslfc
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      Re: Colin Pascoe sacked
      Reply #425: Jun 10, 2015 11:05:35 pm
      Totally Swab but I'd also add that he needed more from them in terms of new ideas.  I get the feeling they were happy to be in his shadow  ;)

      I also think Brendan was happy for them to be in his shadow Debs.

      reddebs
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      Re: Colin Pascoe sacked
      Reply #426: Jun 10, 2015 11:14:23 pm
      I also think Brendan was happy for them to be in his shadow Debs.



      He probably was Si but maybe not as the season unfolded?

      I'm feeling positive about this, mainly because I think there's more to come that could make a huge difference going forward but, there's always a but with our owners, if this is as far as they go with the changes then it's a bit pitiful considering how much apears to be wrong at the Club.
      srslfc
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      Re: Colin Pascoe sacked
      Reply #427: Jun 10, 2015 11:17:52 pm
      He probably was Si but maybe not as the season unfolded?

      I'm feeling positive about this, mainly because I think there's more to come that could make a huge difference going forward but, there's always a but with our owners, if this is as far as they go with the changes then it's a bit pitiful considering how much apears to be wrong at the Club.

      You think it dawned on him he needs more help beside him?

      Judging by the haunted look he had at points late last season you could have point.

      Look Debs if they are keeping Brendan then I hope he is on board with any changes as I don't see any point in continuing if he's going to be arsey about things going on.

      The big change I want and he should be onboard with is above him and a proper DoF coming in to totally run the football club.
      reddebs
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      Re: Colin Pascoe sacked
      Reply #428: Jun 10, 2015 11:26:02 pm
      You think it dawned on him he needs more help beside him?

      Judging by the haunted look he had at points late last season you could have point.

      Look Debs if they are keeping Brendan then I hope he is on board with any changes as I don't see any point in continuing if he's going to be arsey about things going on.

      The big change I want and he should be onboard with is above him and a proper DoF coming in to totally run the football club.

      Looking back I do Si.  He maybe didn't think "F**k this sh*t, they're a pair of useless tw*ts" and went running to Gordan demanding they be sacked but I can see how the suggestion that we could do better was agreed upon and why.  He'll probably be feeling shitty about it but I can also see him being excited about the future so I do think he's on board with the changes.

      redkop63
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      Re: Colin Pascoe sacked
      Reply #429: Jun 11, 2015 12:09:50 am
      he said his team were great last season so what has changed. 75% wanted him gone I dont know what to believe from this forum anymore.
      I am pleased they have gone they should never have been anywhere near the club along with Brendan and I hear more and more now even from players the Luis was the biggest influence on last seasons 2nd place so forgive me if my Agenda of wanting Liverpool FC to be succesful gets in the way of those who think Brendans charming ways will lead to success because they will not.

      I was one of those that defended BR last season against the onslaught of abuses against him from posters here. But when I start to analyse the events that unfolded before me till the end of last season, yes the posters here were and are right, Suarez is the a factor why we finished second. Take him off the equation that's where we are and we have seen the real BR  :-

      1. Totally lost for the first 10 games and did not re-act fast enough to the lost of Suarez. An experienced and world class manager would not allow that to happen. The players were like strangers to each other in those games. Even when we got some footing later on, some games that we won, we were a bit lucky if I may say so.
      2. Not knowing the strengths of the players and did not play to their strengths
      3.  Strange tactics, non stranger than the humiliating defeat against stoke.
      4.  Defence, midfield and attack is so compartmentalised that they worked like individual silos.
      4.. Playing players out of position
      5.  No plan B
      6.  Leaving out players in form

      These are some of the glaring weaknesses of BR that are so amateurish that can best be summed up in 6 points but the owners are much to be blamed for bringing in a rookie manager who is at the level of swansea and expects him to win things. So, lesson learn for the owners money cannot buy experience. I won't start putting the total blame on Pascoe and Marsh, their standards it at where they are as of BR.


      « Last Edit: Jun 11, 2015 12:21:12 am by redkop63 »
      FL Red
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      Re: Colin Pascoe sacked
      Reply #430: Jun 11, 2015 04:11:57 am



      I won't start putting the total blame on Pascoe and Marsh, their standards it at where they are as of BR.



      I've read this twelve times, no idea what it means.  ???

      hardcoresoldier
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      Re: Colin Pascoe sacked
      Reply #431: Jun 11, 2015 09:32:40 am
      I've read this twelve times, no idea what it means.  ???



      It means that the failure of Pascoe and Marsh is partially down to Brendan and his ability to control those under him. Not totally, but partially. If orders were not being carried out to his instruction then it was a failure on Brendan's part that he did nothing to address it.

      I've never bought the 'not enough time to train' bullshit he spewed this Season. No other manager ever complains about it. If indeed this was true then he should have had the nous to get the players in for extra training, it's not rocket science. All this comment did was make him look totally naive and strategically inept.

       
      TheRedMosquito
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      Re: Colin Pascoe sacked
      Reply #432: Jun 11, 2015 06:55:50 pm
      I've never bought the 'not enough time to train' bullshit he spewed this Season. No other manager ever complains about it. If indeed this was true then he should have had the nous to get the players in for extra training, it's not rocket science. All this comment did was make him look totally naive and strategically inept.
       

      Devil's advocate says if the players need that much training they aren't good enough.
      Swab
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      Re: Colin Pascoe sacked
      Reply #433: Jun 11, 2015 07:00:44 pm
      It means that the failure of Pascoe and Marsh is partially down to Brendan and his ability to control those under him. Not totally, but partially. If orders were not being carried out to his instruction then it was a failure on Brendan's part that he did nothing to address it.

      I've never bought the 'not enough time to train' bullshit he spewed this Season. No other manager ever complains about it. If indeed this was true then he should have had the nous to get the players in for extra training, it's not rocket science. All this comment did was make him look totally naive and strategically inept.

       

      This is one of the issues I raised when the replacement thread was up and running.
      I can't find the source right now (can't be arsed if truth be known), but it was an interview in which he said he builds the players understanding of what he wants them to do over the course of a weeks training, instilling it in them so it becomes second nature and works almost subliminally.
      "You train dogs, I educate players"
      It's a nice idea and almost the complete opposite of Rafa's "stratego" approach, but I think I know which method I prefer.

      srslfc
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      Re: Colin Pascoe sacked
      Reply #434: Jun 11, 2015 07:07:11 pm
      This is one of the issues I raised when the replacement thread was up and running.
      I can't find the source right now (can't be arsed if truth be known), but it was an interview in which he said he builds the players understanding of what he wants them to do over the course of a weeks training, instilling it in them so it becomes second nature and works almost subliminally.
      "You train dogs, I educate players"
      It's a nice idea and almost the complete opposite of Rafa's "stratego" approach, but I think I know which method I prefer.



      You and I have discussed this as well if I recall Swab.

      It was also a reason why I thought we should change manager as he simply won't ever have that time at Liverpool as we will be in Europe every season he is here more or less.

      It could be the reason the backroom staff is being changed. More experienced people brought in to lighten the load on the head coach.
      Swab
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      Re: Colin Pascoe sacked
      Reply #435: Jun 11, 2015 07:14:05 pm
      You and I have discussed this as well if I recall Swab.

      It was also a reason why I thought we should change manager as he simply won't ever have that time at Liverpool as we will be in Europe every season he is here more or less.

      It could be the reason the backroom staff is being changed. More experienced people brought in to lighten the load on the head coach.

      Yes we have, and it turns out we were right.
      I mean, this is great working at Swansea or another club without European competition, but as we said at the time, playing in 2 or 3 games in 7 days, it's not going to work.

      I agree as well that it may be the reason (or part of it) that the coaching staff is changing, so thanks for raising that as I hadn't previously thought about it.
      srslfc
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      Re: Colin Pascoe sacked
      Reply #436: Jun 11, 2015 07:16:54 pm
      Yes we have, and it turns out we were right.
      I mean, this is great working at Swansea or another club without European competition, but as we said at the time, playing in 2 or 3 games in 7 days, it's not going to work.

      I agree as well that it may be the reason (or part of it) that the coaching staff is changing, so thanks for raising that as I hadn't previously thought about it.

      Brendan effectively is a Head Coach now from what I can see which I'm onboard with.

      I hope we are going to appoint someone above him as well as new coaching staff though.

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