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      Joe Gomez Player Thread

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      AussieRed
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #650: Feb 02, 2019 12:05:06 am
      Get fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccc ccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkee eeeeeeeeeeeedddddddddddd dddddddddddd.

      We need him back badly, have no faith in Matip and have little faith in Lovren.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #651: Feb 02, 2019 12:12:24 am
      Lovren's injury record at previous clubs isn't that bad and young joe was just a promising kid at charlton

      Maybe but ;

      Most games missed since 15/16
      Kompany 99
      Gomez 84
      Jones 74
      Lovren 46
      Smalling 44
      Vertonghan 41

      Most individual injuries by a CB:
      Lovren 19
      Sokratis 15
      Kompany 14
      Jones 9

      Would suggest that Lovren is definitely injury prone and Gomez is trending the same way.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #652: Feb 02, 2019 12:19:45 am
      Maybe but ;

      Most games missed since 15/16
      Kompany 99
      Gomez 84
      Jones 74
      Lovren 46
      Smalling 44
      Vertonghan 41

      Most individual injuries by a CB:
      Lovren 19
      Sokratis 15
      Kompany 14
      Jones 9

      Would suggest that Lovren is definitely injury prone and Gomez is trending the same way.

      But that's after we signed them so tompkins point is pretty redundant
      HScRed1
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #653: Feb 02, 2019 12:23:13 am
      But that's after we signed them so tompkins point is pretty redundant

      Oh so that means they are not injury prone fair enough  :D
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #654: Feb 02, 2019 12:30:00 am
      Oh so that means they are not injury prone fair enough  :D

      The original point was don't buy injury prone players, gomez and lovren weren't when signed
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #655: Feb 02, 2019 12:30:12 am
      Out of curiosity, how many other teams does anyone know of that has 5+ registered CBs in their team and actually benefit from it?

      Arsenal (5) - Koscielny, Mustafi, Sokratis, Holding, Mavraponos.

      Bournemouth (3) - Cook, Ake, Smith.

      Brighton (4) - Duffy, Dunk, Burn, Balogun

      Burnley (4) - Tarkowski, Gibson, Mee, Long

      Cardiff (4) - Manga, Bamba, Morrison, Connolly

      Chelsea (5) - Luiz, Rudiger, Cahill, Christensen, Ampadu

      Palace (4) - Sakho, Dann, Tomkins, Riedewald

      Everton (5) - Jagielka, Mina, Zouma, Keane, Browning

      Fulham (4) - Chambers, Ream, Masson, Marchand

      Huddersfield (4) - Zanka, Stankovic, Schindler, Kongolo

      Leicester (4) - Morgan, Maguire, Soyuncu, Evans

      Liverpool (4) - Lovren, Virgil, Matip, Gomez

      Man City (5) - Otamendi, Magala, Kompany, Stones, Laporte

      United (5) - Rojo, Bailly, Smalling, Jones, Lindelof

      Newcastle (5) - Lascelles, Clark, Fernandez, Lejune, Schar

      Saints (4) - Yoshida, Bednarek, Vestergaard, Stephens

      Spurs (4) - Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Sanchez, Foyth

      Watford (5) - Britos, Mariappa, Prodl, Cathcart, Kabasele

      West Ham (5) - Rice, Ogbonna, Reid, Balbuena, Diop

      Wolves (3) - Bennett, Boly, Coady

      So, us having 4 CBs isn’t as much of a problem as some would have you believe, sure we could have had 5, by either keeping Klavan or bringing another player in, but how do we know we wouldn’t lose that player to injury? Or another player to injury still? The season would have gone differently and for all we know we could have ended up with the front 3 injured instead. Also is there really that much benefit to having 5 registered? City have 5 but Mangala is injured, Kompany always injured and Stones gets a number of knocks. United and West Ham have 5 but both have had loads of injuries and struggled for numbers there. Arsenal have 5 but have to play Xhaka and Monreal their due to injuries...Monreal has lots of injuries too.

      It’s all well and good saying Klopp messed up not bringing one in but in the grand scheme of things it’s not that much of a problem compared to the number of options for other teams. Fab can play there if need be. Injuries can’t be predicted, these things happen and signing players or keeping players just for the sake of it doesn’t help either because then you are expecting a player who hasn’t played any part up to that point to come in and do a good job. But then that won’t be right either because if he’s rusty from not playing matches then people will moan he played sh*t and isn’t reliable cover.
      It isn’t ideal losing a number of players from an area to injury but there’s nothing we can do about that, we have to deal with the situation. Maybe the people who were so pissed at us going out of the FA Cup will be more relieved now because it could have been a lot worse had we stayed in it.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #656: Feb 02, 2019 12:35:14 am
      Out of curiosity, how many other teams does anyone know of that has 5+ registered CBs in their team and actually benefit from it?

      Arsenal (5) - Koscielny, Mustafi, Sokratis, Holding, Mavraponos.

      Bournemouth (3) - Cook, Ake, Smith.

      Brighton (4) - Duffy, Dunk, Burn, Balogun

      Burnley (4) - Tarkowski, Gibson, Mee, Long

      Cardiff (4) - Manga, Bamba, Morrison, Connolly

      Chelsea (5) - Luiz, Rudiger, Cahill, Christensen, Ampadu

      Palace (4) - Sakho, Dann, Tomkins, Riedewald

      Everton (5) - Jagielka, Mina, Zouma, Keane, Browning

      Fulham (4) - Chambers, Ream, Masson, Marchand

      Huddersfield (4) - Zanka, Stankovic, Schindler, Kongolo

      Leicester (4) - Morgan, Maguire, Soyuncu, Evans

      Liverpool (4) - Lovren, Virgil, Matip, Gomez

      Man City (5) - Otamendi, Magala, Kompany, Stones, Laporte

      United (5) - Rojo, Bailly, Smalling, Jones, Lindelof

      Newcastle (5) - Lascelles, Clark, Fernandez, Lejune, Schar

      Saints (4) - Yoshida, Bednarek, Vestergaard, Stephens

      Spurs (4) - Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Sanchez, Foyth

      Watford (5) - Britos, Mariappa, Prodl, Cathcart, Kabasele

      West Ham (5) - Rice, Ogbonna, Reid, Balbuena, Diop

      Wolves (3) - Bennett, Boly, Coady

      So, us having 4 CBs isn’t as much of a problem as some would have you believe, sure we could have had 5, by either keeping Klavan or bringing another player in, but how do we know we wouldn’t lose that player to injury? Or another player to injury still? The season would have gone differently and for all we know we could have ended up with the front 3 injured instead. Also is there really that much benefit to having 5 registered? City have 5 but Mangala is injured, Kompany always injured and Stones gets a number of knocks. United and West Ham have 5 but both have had loads of injuries and struggled for numbers there. Arsenal have 5 but have to play Xhaka and Monreal their due to injuries...Monreal has lots of injuries too.

      It’s all well and good saying Klopp messed up not bringing one in but in the grand scheme of things it’s not that much of a problem compared to the number of options for other teams. Fab can play there if need be. Injuries can’t be predicted, these things happen and signing players or keeping players just for the sake of it doesn’t help either because then you are expecting a player who hasn’t played any part up to that point to come in and do a good job. But then that won’t be right either because if he’s rusty from not playing matches then people will moan he played sh*t and isn’t reliable cover.
      It isn’t ideal losing a number of players from an area to injury but there’s nothing we can do about that, we have to deal with the situation. Maybe the people who were so pissed at us going out of the FA Cup will be more relieved now because it could have been a lot worse had we stayed in it.


      I think even simpletons like me know that Lovren and Gomez can’t be relied on so that leaves us with 2 CB’s.
      Not sure why Edwards stats don’t pick up these sort of stats, maybe it involves spending money!
      HScRed1
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #657: Feb 02, 2019 12:42:46 am
      What we lose with potentially Gomez out for the rest of the season is we can afford to push up aggressively and just leave Gomez and VVD at the back, both with their pace will just mop up every counter attack but know we need to play another way.

      We saw the downside v Palace and Leicester!
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #658: Feb 02, 2019 02:13:05 am
      I think even simpletons like me know that Lovren and Gomez can’t be relied on so that leaves us with 2 CB’s.
      Not sure why Edwards stats don’t pick up these sort of stats, maybe it involves spending money!

      Why can’t Gomez be relied on? His injury was the result of impact, that literally can happen to any player on any challenge. Up until that moment, he has had no problems this season. He clearly hasn’t had any reoccurrence of any muscular, tissue or ligament injuries. This was purely from an impact from another player. How can a player who had been virtually ever present up until that point not be relied upon?

      Lovren is different, once again it’s a muscular problem which is a reoccurring issue for him. But then, how often are you expecting to rely upon arguably your 4th choice CB? Ultimately he isn’t first choice or 2nd choice for a reason.

      How can it have anything to do with spending money? We spent £170mill in the summer and £75mill the window before that. Whether that money came from Coutinho and the CL is irrelevant because the owners could well have pocketed that money, but they didn’t, every single penny of it was reinvested into recruitment. If there is one thing this club can no longer be accused of then it’s not being willing to spend money. On top of the transfers, we’ve given several players significantly improved contracts and building a new training complex... I can’t believe this is still a way to complain about something.

      Just as a side note, is Lovren actually injured again because I haven’t seen anything actually saying this other than someone reading into some cryptic message Lovren put online...
      « Last Edit: Feb 02, 2019 02:50:09 am by 7-King Kenny-7 »
      PolarBearRed
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #659: Feb 02, 2019 03:33:15 am
      Jesus Christ. It feels like I've been waiting for him to come back for 6 months now only to wake up to this today.   

      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #660: Feb 02, 2019 08:40:59 am
      Looks like he needs surgery. Wouldn't expect to see him back anytime soon folks.

      https://twitter.com/DominicKing_DM/status/1091469264085753858?s=19
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #661: Feb 02, 2019 08:49:28 am
      Oh dear!
      PolarBearRed
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #662: Feb 02, 2019 01:13:53 pm
      f*** this. Can we sell Lovren and Matip and buy Koulibaly this summer. Officially have the best defense in the world. We'll deal with the rest later.

      Edit: Just a fantasy...not really serious
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #663: Feb 02, 2019 01:21:26 pm
      f*** this. Can we sell Lovren and Matip and buy Koulibaly this summer. Officially have the best defense in the world. We'll deal with the rest later.

      Edit: Just a fantasy...not really serious

      I prefer younger!!!
      Swab
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #664: Feb 02, 2019 01:53:25 pm

      I bet you do...


      ;)
      PolarBearRed
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #665: Feb 02, 2019 03:18:52 pm
      My main concern here is: Is the guy injury prone? I'm not an expert on the subject and so I'm really asking the question out of pure curiosity based on the number of days/games he's missed since signing for us.

      The logic behind that question being that we know Lovren and Matip are not good enough to be VVD's main partner, so are we going to give this role to somebody who is, yes good enough to do the job, but going to be constantly out with injuries? The CB partnership is a duo that needs stability and understanding, constantly switching between Matip, Lovren, and Gomez is not good enough.

      If he is indeed prone to injuries then I see no reasons to not spend the money on another very good CB even if it means postponing moves for depth wingers and a playmaker. The effects of an airtight defense on the results of the team compared to those of a more dangerous attack due to the addition of a playmaker are not even close to being equal in my book.

      We've seen what difference and airtight defense does. We saw both sides of the medal. Last year offensive feats were nice on the eyes but it just wasn't enough. This year, up until the last couple of games, scoring one goal was often all we needed to collect the 3 points and move on. 

      We have a pretty good backline that includes a world class CB and a world class keeper, I prefer we splash the cash and secure the backbone of the team than spend the next couple of years having the best defense ''once this or that player comes back from injury''.



      heimdall
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #666: Feb 02, 2019 03:27:33 pm
      What we lose with potentially Gomez out for the rest of the season is we can afford to push up aggressively and just leave Gomez and VVD at the back, both with their pace will just mop up every counter attack but know we need to play another way.

      We saw the downside v Palace and Leicester!

      We'll just have to switch to the more gung ho style of last season, ie outscore opponents, we know we are capable of it, at least for 14 games.
      Having said that we still have Virgil and Allisson and they make a huge difference plus getting Trent back will also help massively.
      sore monad
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #667: Feb 02, 2019 03:37:02 pm
      Sh*t. Wasn't expecting to hear this.

      Our defending has taken a hit since Joe and Trent have been out. Our cover is not that bad, but Joe is a big part of the reason for that rock solid defence we had pre the new year. Still, our defence was pretty good with Lovren and Virgil in the second half of last season, so it's not a disaster. We really do not want any more injuries at the back from now on though.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #668: Feb 03, 2019 12:38:11 am
      Out of curiosity, how many other teams does anyone know of that has 5+ registered CBs in their team and actually benefit from it?

      Arsenal (5) - Koscielny, Mustafi, Sokratis, Holding, Mavraponos.

      Bournemouth (3) - Cook, Ake, Smith.

      Brighton (4) - Duffy, Dunk, Burn, Balogun

      Burnley (4) - Tarkowski, Gibson, Mee, Long

      Cardiff (4) - Manga, Bamba, Morrison, Connolly

      Chelsea (5) - Luiz, Rudiger, Cahill, Christensen, Ampadu

      Palace (4) - Sakho, Dann, Tomkins, Riedewald

      Everton (5) - Jagielka, Mina, Zouma, Keane, Browning

      Fulham (4) - Chambers, Ream, Masson, Marchand

      Huddersfield (4) - Zanka, Stankovic, Schindler, Kongolo

      Leicester (4) - Morgan, Maguire, Soyuncu, Evans

      Liverpool (4) - Lovren, Virgil, Matip, Gomez

      Man City (5) - Otamendi, Magala, Kompany, Stones, Laporte

      United (5) - Rojo, Bailly, Smalling, Jones, Lindelof

      Newcastle (5) - Lascelles, Clark, Fernandez, Lejune, Schar

      Saints (4) - Yoshida, Bednarek, Vestergaard, Stephens

      Spurs (4) - Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Sanchez, Foyth

      Watford (5) - Britos, Mariappa, Prodl, Cathcart, Kabasele

      West Ham (5) - Rice, Ogbonna, Reid, Balbuena, Diop

      Wolves (3) - Bennett, Boly, Coady

      So, us having 4 CBs isn’t as much of a problem as some would have you believe,

      Mate it never is until it becomes a problem like it has to us (LFC), and let me point out that Fab' back (Rushed Back) from a Hamstring could quite easily re-injury his and were would that leave our season...?

      And you claim it is not a problem for  most of the teams above... How many of them play in European competitions, as well as the Cup one and the Prem'...?
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #669: Feb 03, 2019 02:08:03 am
      Mate it never is until it becomes a problem like it has to us (LFC), and let me point out that Fab' back (Rushed Back) from a Hamstring could quite easily re-injury his and were would that leave our season...?

      And you claim it is not a problem for  most of the teams above... How many of them play in European competitions, as well as the Cup one and the Prem'...?

      Arsenal, Spurs, United all in Europe this season, all had injury problems in defence this season and all made it further through the domestic cups than us.
      Wolves still in the FA Cup.

      If a team has 5 registered CBs then they are a player short in another area of the pitch, an area where we would likely have an extra man, most likely the midfield would be my guess. City have 5 CBs, yet they seemed to struggle when they had KDB, Silva and Fernandinho injured/struggling for fitness, they were then short for numbers there and lost 2 games in December back to back. While we, without Trent, without Gomez, without Matip and without Lovren...as well as without the holy grail Clyne, have still managed to win all but 2 games in the league since this injury crisis happened. Think that says something about our team and the number of CBs registered not being the biggest problem when you compare it to other teams.
      Arsenal have struggled all season, the Mancs have 5 registered CBs and yet they are what, 16(?) points behind us. City have 5 and are 5 points behind us. Injury crisis’ can happen at any time, to any team and in any area of the pitch. City would have liked an extra man registered in the midfield back in December instead of having Mangala as a 5th defender not doing anything at all. These things happen and it’s not what happens to the players that is the problem, the problem is how you manage the situation and I’d say out of every teams injury problems this season, and teams have had it worse than us and better than us, I would say Klopp has managed the situation better than any other manager, as proven by our current league position.

      I hope I have answered what you were saying, but I’m not sure what point you are trying to make though if I’m honest...
      « Last Edit: Feb 03, 2019 02:26:31 am by 7-King Kenny-7 »
      Dmasta
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #670: Feb 03, 2019 06:48:06 am
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #671: Feb 03, 2019 02:18:32 pm
      Arsenal, Spurs, United all in Europe this season, all had injury problems in defence this season and all made it further through the domestic cups than us.
      Wolves still in the FA Cup.

      If a team has 5 registered CBs then they are a player short in another area of the pitch, an area where we would likely have an extra man, most likely the midfield would be my guess. City have 5 CBs, yet they seemed to struggle when they had KDB, Silva and Fernandinho injured/struggling for fitness, they were then short for numbers there and lost 2 games in December back to back. While we, without Trent, without Gomez, without Matip and without Lovren...as well as without the holy grail Clyne, have still managed to win all but 2 games in the league since this injury crisis happened. Think that says something about our team and the number of CBs registered not being the biggest problem when you compare it to other teams.
      Arsenal have struggled all season, the Mancs have 5 registered CBs and yet they are what, 16(?) points behind us. City have 5 and are 5 points behind us. Injury crisis’ can happen at any time, to any team and in any area of the pitch. City would have liked an extra man registered in the midfield back in December instead of having Mangala as a 5th defender not doing anything at all. These things happen and it’s not what happens to the players that is the problem, the problem is how you manage the situation and I’d say out of every teams injury problems this season, and teams have had it worse than us and better than us, I would say Klopp has managed the situation better than any other manager, as proven by our current league position.

      I hope I have answered what you were saying, but I’m not sure what point you are trying to make though if I’m honest...
      Full understand the point you have made, but while most of the top team have one maybe two CB we have two, plus two walking wounded, plus a make do Cb who also is a walking wounded.

      In a normal season we may have one of the above, injured so it would not really be a problem but four..? And that's not counting TAA (RB), and in case it is forgotten the first leg CL vs Bayern we are heading into the game with VVD suspended.
      As many here have pointed out both Lovren and Matip can't got four or five games without picking up an injury. Just believe it would have been prudent to have signed a Centre back in this window even if it did cost £50-£70 Mil given what is at stake and that any further set back could potentially destroy our season

      EDIT:- at 15:33 Point I was make re the other teams is that we and the other top clubs had potentially more games to play (especially if we go further in the cup than lets say Wolves) and on that basis alone  we should have a larger squad and more cover than a Wolves or a Brighton... But yes we should also move on the  injury prone as well
      « Last Edit: Feb 03, 2019 03:34:20 pm by The Real Donavan Ried »
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #672: Feb 03, 2019 04:04:03 pm
      EDIT:- at 15:33 Point I was make re the other teams is that we and the other top clubs had potentially more games to play (especially if we go further in the cup than lets say Wolves) and on that basis alone  we should have a larger squad and more cover than a Wolves or a Brighton... But yes we should also move on the  injury prone as well

      Gotcha ya. But, one thing worth considering is that every team has a maximum of 25(?) players they can register. Registering one or two more in one position can then leave you short in another area of the pitch, then if an injury crisis happens there, it would be the same situation. It’s a difficult one, I don’t have a problem with us going with 4 CBs for the season because in all honesty, even with the players having a history of injuries, I don’t think anyone would have predicted all these injuries would have happened at the same kind of time and all in the same area of the pitch. It’s just bad luck. Just makes me greatful that we do have players with good adaptability that allows them to cover areas of the pitch - Milner at RB, Fab at CB etc because in truth, apart from Milner having a very mixed game vs Palace, the players filling in have done so really well and we’ve still gotten the results.
      glennusmc
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #673: Feb 03, 2019 05:56:05 pm
      It’s official for Me now, hope Burnley gets relegated, that was a dirty, unnecessary foul on Joe that broke his ankle that game.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Joe Gomez Player Thread
      Reply #674: Feb 03, 2019 06:27:33 pm
      Gotcha ya. But, one thing worth considering is that every team has a maximum of 25(?) players they can register. Registering one or two more in one position can then leave you short in another area of the pitch, then if an injury crisis happens there, it would be the same situation. It’s a difficult one, I don’t have a problem with us going with 4 CBs for the season because in all honesty, even with the players having a history of injuries, I don’t think anyone would have predicted all these injuries would have happened at the same kind of time and all in the same area of the pitch. It’s just bad luck. Just makes me greatful that we do have players with good adaptability that allows them to cover areas of the pitch - Milner at RB, Fab at CB etc because in truth, apart from Milner having a very mixed game vs Palace, the players filling in have done so really well and we’ve still gotten the results.
      I get you, but it can be so frustrating at times

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