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      Carlos Bacca (Sevilla -> AC Milan)

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      srslfc
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      Re: Carlos Bacca
      Reply #115: Jun 26, 2015 11:51:29 am
      What's all this Sevilla talk?  Aspas had a reasonable season there.....

      Expand Ripa.

      Not sure what you're on about?
      ozi_wozzy
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      Re: Carlos Bacca
      Reply #116: Jun 26, 2015 11:53:44 am
      I watched a few of his YouTube montages (entire game clips) the other day mate and your evaluation is exactly what I saw, someone with clever movement who runs channels and times his runs well, does most of his best work in the box and is a tidy finisher with a bit of physical presecence. Your right, he would thrive with a couple players like Coutinho and Firmino behind him.

      Can't see the club throwing big money at a 30 year old though, it's the anti-thesis of all FSG stand for. We'll see, he looks a decent pLayer although I'm not completely knocked over by him.

      I tend to agree mate. Bacca isn't a glamourous signing and isn't the quickest by any means, but he does know where the goal is. Clevel movement, trickery around the box and finishing is what we missed this season so Bacca can definitely do a good job. You forget that we still have Studge to come back to provide pace, and Couts, Lallana, Firmino for creativity, so Bacca would work. He is similar to Soldado, I get the comparison, but Soldado doesn't have the creativity and fluidity behind him to support his finishing.

      I'd rather have Bacca, than rely on Lambert or Balo. Origi is still a prospect and needs time whilst I think Benteke is just not right for our system.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Carlos Bacca
      Reply #117: Jun 26, 2015 11:55:09 am
      Expand Ripa.

      Not sure what you're on about?
      people posting Sevilla stats to justify interest in Bacca, when Aspas who had a horrific experience here did okay in Sevilla. I am taking the Bacca scoring record with a pinch of salt.
      mcarz
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      Re: Carlos Bacca
      Reply #118: Jun 26, 2015 11:55:29 am
      What's all this Sevilla talk?  Aspas had a reasonable season there.....

      In the cup against low opposition yes but he was poor in the league.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Carlos Bacca
      Reply #119: Jun 26, 2015 11:58:18 am
      In the cup against low opposition yes but he was poor in the league.
      who did bacca score against? I see no details.  Aspas scored against real Madrid too btw, don't see many people floating that though.
      ayrton77
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      Re: Carlos Bacca
      Reply #120: Jun 26, 2015 12:02:18 pm
      who did bacca score against? I see no details.  Aspas scored against real Madrid too btw, don't see many people floating that though.

      Oh, come on.

      Andrea Dossena scored a beauty in the 4-1 win against Utd, but we don't want to re-sign him and play him up front.

      Awful argument, Aspas wasn't good enough, simple.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Carlos Bacca
      Reply #121: Jun 26, 2015 12:06:14 pm
      Oh, come on.

      Andrea Dossena scored a beauty in the 4-1 win against Utd, but we don't want to re-sign him and play him up front.

      Awful argument, Aspas wasn't good enough, simple.
      not trying to say he is, I am saying savilla stats don't impress that much.
      srslfc
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      Re: Carlos Bacca
      Reply #122: Jun 26, 2015 12:08:25 pm
      not trying to say he is, I am saying savilla stats don't impress that much.

      Your hard to please then.

      His stats at Sevilla alone impress. Not saying its a guarantee but I'm not sure how you can't be impressed by his stats.
      ayrton77
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      Re: Carlos Bacca
      Reply #123: Jun 26, 2015 12:14:51 pm
      I am saying savilla stats don't impress that much.

      As an example, people are comparing Bacca's goalscoring statistics to those of Benteke at Villa.

      Should we not count Benteke's scoring record either because it was at a sh*t club?

      Not sure how else we are meant to judge a player except through their playing style and scoring stats?
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Carlos Bacca
      Reply #124: Jun 26, 2015 12:16:32 pm
      Your hard to please then.

      His stats at Sevilla alone impress. Not saying its a guarantee but I'm not sure how you can't be impressed by his stats.
      from the video I saw.  Some of his goals were penalties and others against teams that may be below PL quality. I'd have him in place of Balotelli,  Lambert and Borini combined but we'd still need another striker.
      FL Red
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      Re: Carlos Bacca
      Reply #125: Jun 26, 2015 01:24:54 pm
      As an example, people are comparing Bacca's goalscoring statistics to those of Benteke at Villa.

      Should we not count Benteke's scoring record either because it was at a sh*t club?

      Not sure how else we are meant to judge a player except through their playing style and scoring stats?

      Maybe not for the club they play in so much but for who they scored against?

      If I scored 45 goals against my drunken grandma at the park, it's not quite the same as me beating Mignolet 45 times is it? ;D
      FL Red
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      Re: Carlos Bacca
      Reply #126: Jun 26, 2015 01:26:39 pm
      Your hard to please then.

      His stats at Sevilla alone impress. Not saying its a guarantee but I'm not sure how you can't be impressed by his stats.

      Sorry Si, the more I watch (and read of) him the less impressed I am with his returns. Now, if we are looking for a pure poacher, he seems to fit the bill. He scored a lot of penalties and he seemed to score a lot of cleanup, tap in or poached goals.

      The longer this goes on, the more I'm wishing we pushed all of our chips in on someone else that's a bit younger a bit more established or with a bit more "Wow".
      Aspi
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      Re: Carlos Bacca
      Reply #127: Jun 26, 2015 02:55:17 pm
      Sorry Si, the more I watch (and read of) him the less impressed I am with his returns. Now, if we are looking for a pure poacher, he seems to fit the bill. He scored a lot of penalties and he seemed to score a lot of cleanup, tap in or poached goals.

      The longer this goes on, the more I'm wishing we pushed all of our chips in on someone else that's a bit younger a bit more established or with a bit more "Wow".

      I'm thinking that is kind of what we need though IMO - we will have Coutinho and  Firmino putting chances on a plate for someone so that poacher type striker to stick them in the net you would think would fit the bill. 
      srslfc
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      Re: Carlos Bacca
      Reply #128: Jun 26, 2015 02:56:45 pm
      I'm thinking that is kind of what we need though IMO - we will have Coutinho and  Firmino putting chances on a plate for someone so that poacher type striker to stick them in the net you would think would fit the bill. 

      That's how I see it.
      FL Red
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      Re: Carlos Bacca
      Reply #129: Jun 26, 2015 02:58:42 pm
      I'm thinking that is kind of what we need though IMO - we will have Coutinho and  Firmino putting chances on a plate for someone so that poacher type striker to stick them in the net you would think would fit the bill. 


      Could very well be the case. I'm just looking at Sturridge and his injury record. If he's fit, I don't care who you pair with him for the most part, in fact Bacca would make a great #2 with Sturridge...but if it's Bacca being the main guy, I just don't see the qualities like I see in Sturridge that would make him the answer for us.
      bigmick
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      Re: Carlos Bacca
      Reply #130: Jun 26, 2015 03:17:08 pm
      In all seriousness if Sturridge does get fit, it would completely transform us as a football team.
      Bier
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      Re: Carlos Bacca
      Reply #131: Jun 26, 2015 03:26:48 pm
      Just looking at his goals last season, he scored 20 goals in La Liga. 14 of those goals were against the lower half of the league, numbers 11 to 20 on the table. Of the other 6 goals, 3 were penalties, coincidentally the 3 goals he scored against the strongest teams, Real Madrid, Villareal and Valencia. He has actually not scored a single "normal" goal this season against the top 6 teams in La Liga.

      So that raises some concerns, and I thought let's have a look at the season before that too. 13/14 season he scored 14 goals in La Liga, 10 of which were against the lower half teams. Interestingly enough 3 of the 4 other goals were against Real Madrid, none penalties, though all poacher goals.

      So what's the conclusion? I'm not sure. The Real Madrid goals make it not as clear cut. And it all depends on how you view the lower half of La Liga compared to the PL. One thing is for sure, he's very much a poacher, a finisher, limited striker. Unfortunately most strikers we are linked to seem to be. Ideally we'd have a striker who will perform regardless, and isn't too dependant on the form of his team mates. It's why you don't see many of these poachers at European top teams.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Carlos Bacca
      Reply #132: Jun 26, 2015 04:09:32 pm
      Reports are suggesting Roma are in for him for 21 mil quid which got rejected but are preparing a second bid.

      Aren't we both owned by FSG!!

      Tell Roma to F**k off before we embarrass them for a third time in their own back garden 8)
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Carlos Bacca
      Reply #133: Jun 26, 2015 10:10:27 pm
      Could very well be the case. I'm just looking at Sturridge and his injury record. If he's fit, I don't care who you pair with him for the most part, in fact Bacca would make a great #2 with Sturridge...but if it's Bacca being the main guy, I just don't see the qualities like I see in Sturridge that would make him the answer for us.

      Does there have to be a one and a two if two players are so different to each other? We've played our best football when we played two strikers up front, each with differing characteristics. Here's where he scored most of his goals last season:




      And some stats I've found for last season:

      - 71% shot accuracy
      - 33.9% chance conversion
      - 42 shots on target (in 37 appearances)
      - 17 shots off target (in 37 appearances)
      - 28 goals (in 37 appearances)
      - 67.5% pass success

      Plus at the age of 28 we're unlikely to be loosing him to Real or Barca in the next couple of years. I know stats are no measure of success in a different league but this guy looks the real deal and for considerably less than we'd spend on Benteke. For me, this is a no-brainer and I don't know what we're F***ing around for. Get him in.
      asharma.lfc
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      Re: Carlos Bacca
      Reply #134: Jun 27, 2015 05:29:51 am
      Just looking at his goals last season, he scored 20 goals in La Liga. 14 of those goals were against the lower half of the league, numbers 11 to 20 on the table. Of the other 6 goals, 3 were penalties, coincidentally the 3 goals he scored against the strongest teams, Real Madrid, Villareal and Valencia. He has actually not scored a single "normal" goal this season against the top 6 teams in La Liga.

      So that raises some concerns, and I thought let's have a look at the season before that too. 13/14 season he scored 14 goals in La Liga, 10 of which were against the lower half teams. Interestingly enough 3 of the 4 other goals were against Real Madrid, none penalties, though all poacher goals.

      So what's the conclusion? I'm not sure. The Real Madrid goals make it not as clear cut. And it all depends on how you view the lower half of La Liga compared to the PL. One thing is for sure, he's very much a poacher, a finisher, limited striker. Unfortunately most strikers we are linked to seem to be. Ideally we'd have a striker who will perform regardless, and isn't too dependant on the form of his team mates. It's why you don't see many of these poachers at European top teams.
      Well he is a poacher. And sevilla doesn't have many creative players. Against top teams they struggle to create good chances. Now compare that with us. At  OT  sterling got 3 one on one options against degea but couldn't finish. Baloteli again got two one on ones same match.

      With Coutinho and firmino,  Bacca will get plenty of chances against any team if he is willing to run, and from what I have seen he is a mad man always chasing and running and for passes even though lacks dribbling skills.
      carragerrard
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      Re: Carlos Bacca
      Reply #135: Jun 27, 2015 11:00:42 am
      don't know if we are  really in for Bacca hope so anyway
      but it will difficult , although it is reported he said he would like to join  LIVERPOOL (daily star)
       but apart from (yes, you guessed  right) ..spuds ,  there are Roma , and most of all Milan, who are desparate  to sign a good player after the missed heavily on Martinez(A.Madrid) and Kondobia to there eternal rivals Intermilan

       YNWA
      FL Red
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      Re: Carlos Bacca
      Reply #136: Jun 27, 2015 04:08:39 pm
      Does there have to be a one and a two if two players are so different to each other? We've played our best football when we played two strikers up front, each with differing characteristics. Here's where he scored most of his goals last season:




      And some stats I've found for last season:

      - 71% shot accuracy
      - 33.9% chance conversion
      - 42 shots on target (in 37 appearances)
      - 17 shots off target (in 37 appearances)
      - 28 goals (in 37 appearances)
      - 67.5% pass success

      Plus at the age of 28 we're unlikely to be loosing him to Real or Barca in the next couple of years. I know stats are no measure of success in a different league but this guy looks the real deal and for considerably less than we'd spend on Benteke. For me, this is a no-brainer and I don't know what we're f**king around for. Get him in.

      Is it ok that I just don't rate him, or do I have to submit to your opinion on him?
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Carlos Bacca
      Reply #137: Jun 27, 2015 06:48:03 pm
      Looks like Bacca is heading to Milan for £17.7 million.

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