Roberto Firmino Player Thread (F)

Mick we're going to have to agree to disagree. Two things to note on this, Mane isn't even in the picture so you can see how far back he crossed it from and secondly the shape that Firmino is having to make to get the contact (which was only minutely off) onto the ball.

If that's a sitter in your book then fair enough, it isn't in mine and never will be.

It's a sitter all day long in my book mate but I'm happy to agree to differ, no probs. I note you didn't repeat your "penalty spot" claim of earlier, I thought my memory wasn't deceiving me .

It's a sitter all day long in my book mate but I'm happy to agree to differ, no probs. I note you didn't repeat your "penalty spot" claim of earlier, I thought my memory wasn't deceiving me .

That's where he took off from I said, and it's true.

Frame earlier:



(by the way if that was you, you'd be saying all this "why lie" crap) I said where he took off from, not where he connected with it.

And the reason in that previous post that he's having to arch his body backwards is that he's slightly got underneath it. A proper striker stays behind it, Bobby gets into the impact zone a fraction of a second too early. Doesn't matter how many photos you put up though mate, it's a sitter.

AND, he ain't taking off in the second photo is he? Looks to me like he's getting under the flight of the ball (too early as I say).

I dunno about anybody else in this thread but I wanna just say an enormous thank you to Mick and Luke.












For making the winter shorter lads

I dunno about anybody else in this thread but I wanna just say an enormous thank you to Mick and Luke.












For making the winter shorter lads

Haha nice one mate.

Haha nice one mate.

Only teasing mate - I'm the last to criticise with some of the back 'n' fros I've had

A difficult header that, and hard to properly guide it while still getting enough power, to beat a decent keeper from a fair distance (for a header).
His other "sitter" was simple misfortune, as the defender in front of him got enough of a nick on it to change the direction, so it hit him in a place he couldn't anticipate.

A bit off form, but hardly "horrendous" or any of the other ridiculous hyperbole.

Sturridge, on the other hand, an alleged "natural goalscorer" (a F***ing nonsense statement if ever there was one) has missed sitter after sitter when he's come on.
The argument goes that he "needs a run of games" and indeed that argument might have merit if not for the fact that every time he gets a go, he ends up on the treatment table getting a torn cuticle looked at, which subsequently keeps him out for 6 months.

Given a choice between a player who gives maximum effort every time he goes on the pitch, and is integral to Klopp's style of play, and a gifted player who is made of glass and walks round like he can't be arsed half the time, I know which one I'd rather have in my team.

A difficult header that, and hard to properly guide it while still getting enough power, to beat a decent keeper from a fair distance (for a header).
His other "sitter" was simple misfortune, as the defender in front of him got enough of a nick on it to change the direction, so it hit him in a place he couldn't anticipate.

A bit off form, but hardly "horrendous" or any of the other ridiculous hyperbole.

Sturridge, on the other hand, an alleged "natural goalscorer" (a f**king nonsense statement if ever there was one) has missed sitter after sitter when he's come on.
The argument goes that he "needs a run of games" and indeed that argument might have merit if not for the fact that every time he gets a go, he ends up on the treatment table getting a torn cuticle looked at, which subsequently keeps him out for 6 months.

Given a choice between a player who gives maximum effort every time he goes on the pitch, and is integral to Klopp's style of play, and a gifted player who is made of glass and walks round like he can't be arsed half the time, I know which one I'd rather have in my team.

'Kin hell Swab man.......it's like having the actual sun on my back now you've joined too ☀️

'Kin hell Swab man.......it's like having the sun on my back now you've joined too ☀️

 

I just don't see how anyone can make a case for starting Sturridge over Firmino.
He's more like to break down in the first 5 minutes than get a goal.
The fella needs to grow a pair and stop crying about every little twinge.
He could have been a great, but he always looks a bit like he can't be arsed. That's probably unfair on the lad, but it seems that way to me sometimes.
Take last night for instance, there he was, casually wandering around, when it suddenly occurs to him that he should actually be doing his job, and only then does he start putting in a bit of effort.

A difficult header that, and hard to properly guide it while still getting enough power, to beat a decent keeper from a fair distance (for a header).
His other "sitter" was simple misfortune, as the defender in front of him got enough of a nick on it to change the direction, so it hit him in a place he couldn't anticipate.

A bit off form, but hardly "horrendous" or any of the other ridiculous hyperbole.

Sturridge, on the other hand, an alleged "natural goalscorer" (a f**king nonsense statement if ever there was one) has missed sitter after sitter when he's come on.
The argument goes that he "needs a run of games" and indeed that argument might have merit if not for the fact that every time he gets a go, he ends up on the treatment table getting a torn cuticle looked at, which subsequently keeps him out for 6 months.

Given a choice between a player who gives maximum effort every time he goes on the pitch, and is integral to Klopp's style of play, and a gifted player who is made of glass and walks round like he can't be arsed half the time, I know which one I'd rather have in my team.

Weren't you the other day saying Sturridge was more of a top striker than the EPL's top scorer for the past two seasons? Genuinely interested to know what made you change your mind.

As for Firmino - very good player but I'm afraid that we'll struggle to become a successful team if we do not have a goalscorer capable of constantly finding the net. Which is why a lot of people saw a striker as one of the priorities before the summer, but apparently changing Firmino's number to 9 made that go away. Perhaps we could change Klavan's number to 4 and pretend it's all fine at the back as well.

Weren't you the other day saying Sturridge was more of a top striker than the EPL's top scorer for the past two seasons? Genuinely interested to know what made you change your mind.

As for Firmino - very good player but I'm afraid that we'll struggle to become a successful team if we do not have a goalscorer capable of constantly finding the net. Which is why a lot of people saw a striker as one of the priorities before the summer, but apparently changing Firmino's number to 9 made that go away. Perhaps we could change Klavan's number to 4 and pretend it's all fine at the back as well.

I haven't changed my mind about his talent, and I thought I'd been pretty clear in other posts in this thread that I consider him to be a very gifted player.
There's no question about his ability in my mind.
His injury record and attitude however, are a different thing entirely.
We simply cannot rely on him.

As far as what people saw as priorities, Klopp himself has said a few times that he considers 3 players scoring goals (Firmino, Mane, Salah) to be better than relying on one player who scores goals, especially when we have a couple of others chipping in as well.
I agree with him.
For me, it's far better to have 3 constantly interchanging players, rather than a couple of predictable wide men just getting to the byline to fire in crosses for a CF.

I haven't changed my mind about his talent, and I thought I'd been pretty clear in other posts in this thread that I consider him to be a very gifted player.
There's no question about his ability in my mind.
His injury record and attitude however, are a different thing entirely.
We simply cannot rely on him.

As far as what people saw as priorities, Klopp himself has said a few times that he considers 3 players scoring goals (Firmino, Mane, Salah) to be better than relying on one player who scores goals, especially when we have a couple of others chipping in as well.
I agree with him.
For me, it's far better to have 3 constantly interchanging players, rather than a couple of predictable wide men just getting to the byline to fire in crosses for a CF.

How would having a "proper" No9 stop the other 2 scoring?

United have Lukaku, City have Aguero, Tottenham have Kane, Arsenal have Lacazette, Chelsea have Morata, Bayern have Lewandowski, Barca have Suarez etc. And that doesn't stop the likes of Martial, Sane, Alli, Sanchez, Hazard, Robben etc scoring goals and just being generally good.

All this negativity about a 'proper' number 9 is absolute bollocks. You need one to win titles.

I haven't changed my mind about his talent, and I thought I'd been pretty clear in other posts in this thread that I consider him

But if Harry Kane played for us, or Lukaku, or Greizman, we'd be f*****! The whole attacking impetus would grind to a standstill, Mane and Salah would never score another goal. As for our midfielders, forget about them scoring except for very occasionally too (what? well alright forget the midfielders.) 

IMHO an average striker or Sturridge scores that 9 times out of 10. Firmino is still a good player tho.

IMHO an average striker or Sturridge scores that 9 times out of 10. Firmino is still a good player tho.

Firmino IS a good player mate, there's no doubt in my mind about that. Equally though, there's no doubt in my mind that he ISN'T a striker. Maybe a number ten or an attacking mid, but never a striker unless the "false 9" is called for. When it is (called for) he's pretty good at it, but when you play it every single game it loses it's surprise value and goes from being a "false" 9 to becoming a "very ineffective" 9.

I haven't changed my mind about his talent, and I thought I'd been pretty clear in other posts in this thread that I consider him to be a very gifted player.
There's no question about his ability in my mind.
His injury record and attitude however, are a different thing entirely.
We simply cannot rely on him.

As far as what people saw as priorities, Klopp himself has said a few times that he considers 3 players scoring goals (Firmino, Mane, Salah) to be better than relying on one player who scores goals, especially when we have a couple of others chipping in as well.
I agree with him.
For me, it's far better to have 3 constantly interchanging players, rather than a couple of predictable wide men just getting to the byline to fire in crosses for a CF.

I personally prefer whatever option scores more goals for Liverpool FC, whether that be one player scoring 30 or three players scoring 10 each. However I don't see why it has to be a choice between one or the other. I don't think anyone advocates for a Mario Gomez type upfront, but rather someone who can link up play and be a more reliable goalscorer. As others have said, a Harry Kane upfront would hardly stop Salah and Mané from scoring, nor would it mean that we would have "predictable wide men" firing crosses for 90 minutes because of it. There are forwards out there who could do be that type of goalscorer for us - but they cost a lot of money, so hey, not very confident we'll get one.

I also don't think Klopp plays Firmino thinking "it's alright if he doesn't score much but runs a lot", rather I believe he sees potential in Bobby to become a more complete player in the coming years. The likes of Aubameyang and Lewandowski were also longer term projects for him, none were ready made products when he started managing them. After all the idea that Klopp doesn't "like" to play with a "proper" goalscorer is a strange one with no base on his managerial past. Anyway, I do hope that is the case and that he's right in sticking with Bobby if what I believe is true. I do like to think that at some point Firmino will "explode" and start scoring on a more regular basis.

I personally prefer whatever option scores more goals for Liverpool FC, whether that be one player scoring 30 or three players scoring 10 each. However I don't see why it has to be a choice between one or the other. I don't think anyone advocates for a Mario Gomez type upfront, but rather someone who can link up play and be a more reliable goalscorer. As others have said, a Harry Kane upfront would hardly stop Salah and Mané from scoring, nor would it mean that we would have "predictable wide men" firing crosses for 90 minutes because of it. There are forwards out there who could do be that type of goalscorer for us - but they cost a lot of money, so hey, not very confident we'll get one.

I also don't think Klopp plays Firmino thinking "it's alright if he doesn't score much but runs a lot", rather I believe he sees potential in Bobby to become a more complete player in the coming years. The likes of Aubameyang and Lewandowski were also longer term projects for him, none were ready made products when he started managing them. After all the idea that Klopp doesn't "like" to play with a "proper" goalscorer is a strange one with no base on his managerial past. Anyway, I do hope that is the case and that he's right in sticking with Bobby if what I believe is true. I do like to think that at some point Firmino will "explode" and start scoring on a more regular basis.

That's how I see it too. I don't think for one second Jürgen buys into this nonsense that in order for Salah and Mane to score lots of goals we need a striker who doesn't very often. Jürgen is IMHO playing Firmino to the exclusion of everyone else for two reasons.

1. He thinks there is a good possibility that Bobby will one day explode and become a scoring machine.

2. He isn't sufficiently confident in either of our two alternatives (Sturridge or Solanke).

I disagree with him on the first point as I don't think Bobby will ever be a heavy scorer. On the second point he maybe onto something. Even Sturridge's biggest advocates would find it hard to deny that if he DID get regular starts he'd probably get injured. Equally, it would take a King Canute style football philosopher to claim that Danny is quite the same player he was three or four seasons ago. Solanke could be anything, but the most likely scenario is that he'll be just OK. You do sometimes get World beater strikers change hands for 3 million quid, but it's a bit rare. Doesn't mean he won't be great, but the balance of probability says he'll do well to get regular football as a Premiership striker, and that's anywhere not just at Liverpool.

So we keep playing Bobby, and no doubt we'll play him again on Sunday. Of course eventually he'll score a couple, as would anyone who was being presented with sitters every week, but until and unless he does it on a consistent basis it won't stop people wondering.

Like I said earlier, it was IMHO daft to go into a season with Bobby as our own realistic option up top (in the managers eyes). It's a false/not real nine backed up by a kid and a cripple. Wait till we get a few injuries, we might yet be giving Steven Caulker a contract. 

I personally prefer whatever option scores more goals for Liverpool FC, whether that be one player scoring 30 or three players scoring 10 each. However I don't see why it has to be a choice between one or the other. I don't think anyone advocates for a Mario Gomez type upfront, but rather someone who can link up play and be a more reliable goalscorer. As others have said, a Harry Kane upfront would hardly stop Salah and Mané from scoring, nor would it mean that we would have "predictable wide men" firing crosses for 90 minutes because of it. There are forwards out there who could do be that type of goalscorer for us - but they cost a lot of money, so hey, not very confident we'll get one.

I also don't think Klopp plays Firmino thinking "it's alright if he doesn't score much but runs a lot", rather I believe he sees potential in Bobby to become a more complete player in the coming years. The likes of Aubameyang and Lewandowski were also longer term projects for him, none were ready made products when he started managing them. After all the idea that Klopp doesn't "like" to play with a "proper" goalscorer is a strange one with no base on his managerial past. Anyway, I do hope that is the case and that he's right in sticking with Bobby if what I believe is true. I do like to think that at some point Firmino will "explode" and start scoring on a more regular basis.

I'm with you all the way on this, but the points others are seemingly making is that without a "fox in the box" or poacher type, we won't win anything.
I dispute that, and I think the more players we have scoring goals the better.
Some seem to have this idea of an old fashioned CF, who stays in the box, relying on service from wide men, which iMO would negate both Mane's and Salah's strengths, not to mention the fact that Firmino creates the space for them to flourish in a lot of the time.
Klopp likes what some are saying are "proper" strikers, but the bigger picture is that he makes those players, rather than buys them, and that's what I see in Firmino.
If we could rely on Sturridge, based on ability alone, with fewer injuries and a better work ethic (personally, I think he just doesn't quite "get it" but that's a different conversation), I'd be all for starting him, with Firmino in behind in some games, particularly where teams park the bus, but we just can't rely on the lad, and it seems such a waste of talent to me.

Firmino is struggling for form, and looks a bit leggy to me, but I have no doubt he'll come good, and may very well explode in the same way Suarez did, and at around the same age as well.

I think it should also be considered that we are very much a work in progress, have a young squad with lots of talent and will only get stronger.

Klopp will be looking at the bigger picture, long term plans, and development of players.
The only question that has any relevance is whether or not people trust his ability as a coach and manager.
If they say "yes" then it seems a bit odd to tack a "but" onto it.

I'm with you all the way on this, but the points others are seemingly making is that without a "fox in the box" or poacher type, we won't win anything.
I dispute that, and I think the more players we have scoring goals the better.
Some seem to have this idea of an old fashioned CF, who stays in the box, relying on service from wide men, which iMO would negate both Mane's and Salah's strengths, not to mention the fact that Firmino creates the space for them to flourish in a lot of the time.
Klopp likes what some are saying are "proper" strikers, but the bigger picture is that he makes those players, rather than buys them, and that's what I see in Firmino.
If we could rely on Sturridge, based on ability alone, with fewer injuries and a better work ethic (personally, I think he just doesn't quite "get it" but that's a different conversation), I'd be all for starting him, with Firmino in behind in some games, particularly where teams park the bus, but we just can't rely on the lad, and it seems such a waste of talent to me.

Firmino is struggling for form, and looks a bit leggy to me, but I have no doubt he'll come good, and may very well explode in the same way Suarez did, and at around the same age as well.

I think it should also be considered that we are very much a work in progress, have a young squad with lots of talent and will only get stronger.

Klopp will be looking at the bigger picture, long term plans, and development of players.
The only question that has any relevance is whether or not people trust his ability as a coach and manager.
If they say "yes" then it seems a bit odd to tack a "but" onto it.

Doesn't seem odd to me at all. I trust him and his ability as a coach and a manager. That doesn't mean though that I agree with absolutely every single thing he does and says, and as this is a Liverpool fans forum where people discuss things, the odd bit would be to say nothing.

Doesn't seem odd to me at all. I trust him and his ability as a coach and a manager. That doesn't mean though that I agree with absolutely every single thing he does and says, and as this is a Liverpool fans forum where people discuss things, the odd bit would be to say nothing.

My approach would be to try and work out why he does something rather than questioning it because I don't agree with it.
He's forgotten more about football than I'll ever know.
This is a Liverpool fans forum that rarely see's that approach, and when someone like Danzel makes excellent posts, about the why's and wherefores, he gets shouted down.
On other forums they actually discuss and try to learn.
On here, people knee jerk and wallow in negativity and whinging.

My approach would be to try and work out why he does something rather than questioning it because I don't agree with it.
He's forgotten more about football than I'll ever know.
This is a Liverpool fans forum that rarely see's that approach, and when someone like Danzel makes excellent posts, about the why's and wherefores, he gets shouted down.
On other forums they actually discuss and try to learn.
On here, people knee jerk and wallow in negativity and whinging.

Yes mate it's a forum where we discuss, if we take everything Klopp does is beyond debate then no point in having a forum.
Klopp is not infallible just like all managers.

And I'm one of his biggest fans!

Yes mate it's a forum where we discuss, if we take everything Klopp does is beyond debate then no point in having a forum.
Klopp is not infallible just like all managers.

And I'm one of his biggest fans!

Yes it seems a little bit of a strange stance to simply accept your lot and not discuss things, on a discussion forum.