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      Roberto Firmino Player Thread (F)

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      bigmick
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #1288: Aug 21, 2017 10:46:29 am
      i agree, he does so much work for the team its almost like scoring goals is a bonus, even though I know that sounds bizarre. I also have this feeling that it will just click into place for Bobby then he'll start scoring for fun.

      Hope you're right Heimy. DLS posted up yesterday though that he's now gone seven games without scoring a goal in open play. It's rare for teams to have a centre forward with that sort of goals to game ratio and prosper, regardless of whether or not he runs around a lot.

      Currently Bobby is like Heskey with ability, for me a central striker must contribute more goals. 
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #1289: Aug 21, 2017 10:49:53 am
      Hope you're right Heimy. DLS posted up yesterday though that he's now gone seven games without scoring a goal in open play. It's rare for teams to have a centre forward with that sort of goals to game ratio and prosper, regardless of whether or not he runs around a lot.

      Currently Bobby is like Heskey with ability, for me a central striker must contribute more goals.

       :D

      Laughing aside, he does seem one of only a few in this team that has a bit of character (fight) about them, and will try and put himself about. I do like that about him - Henderson and a few others could take note.
      « Last Edit: Aug 21, 2017 11:55:46 am by Beerbelly »
      Benito
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #1290: Aug 21, 2017 02:11:09 pm
      What a stonker of a player we have on our hands here.
      FL Red
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #1291: Aug 21, 2017 02:38:09 pm
      :D

      Laughing aside, he does seem one of only a few in this team that has a bit of character (fight) about them, and will try and put himself about. I do like that about him - Henderson and a few others could take note.

      He also NEVER goes down, he always tries to fight through challenges. I think it's one reason he loses the ball so much. Most players would go down at first touch and win a free kick but Bobby actually does the admirable thing and tries to play through contact and sometimes it doesn't pay off.

      When you watch the game, watch how many times he receives the ball and 3 guys  descend on him. The opposing team knows his quality and they look to stifle him as much as they can. One reason we need more quality in midfield...the more technically able players we have (like Coutinho and Lallana) behind Bobby, the more it frees him up to do his thing in my opinion.
      bigmick
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #1292: Aug 21, 2017 02:38:25 pm
      What a stonker of a player we have on our hands here.

      This is the Firmino thread mate.































       :f_whistle:
      Benito
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #1293: Aug 21, 2017 05:12:42 pm
      This is the Firmino thread mate.
       :f_whistle:

      Run!   :f_run:
      Seriously, the best false 9 out there - I cant think of another player that is in his mold (Okazaki maybe?).
      I watched the game again last night, and while I was one of our loudest critics while watching it live, I hadn't noticed how much Firmino bossed the game from deep post Solanke coming on.
      Bobby loves getting dirty, and his doggedness provides us so many opportunities - I can see us being succesfull against the big teams due to his unique style - powerful CBs don't know how to handle him. I still think we need an out and out striker (replacement for Sturridge) to dominate the lower-class opposition, but Bobby is going to have a big impact (again) on the big games - backing him for a brace vs Gooners.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #1294: Aug 21, 2017 05:47:46 pm
      he's now gone seven games without scoring a goal in open play. It's rare for teams to have a centre forward with that sort of goals to game ratio

      Suarez went 6 games without a single goal for us on multiple occasions. To be fair, we haven't exactly been providing him with great service, our midfield has been abysmal at the start of the season so far and he is constantly dropping further and further back to get the ball. A lot of our attacks this season are happening because of one of the front 3 dropping back, getting the ball and trying to create something. We may as well be bypassing our midfield they've been that useless so far.

      I'm confident once he gets another goal or 2 that he will then be ssmashing then in regularly.
      bigmick
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #1295: Aug 21, 2017 10:37:36 pm
      Suarez went 6 games without a single goal for us on multiple occasions. To be fair, we haven't exactly been providing him with great service, our midfield has been abysmal at the start of the season so far and he is constantly dropping further and further back to get the ball. A lot of our attacks this season are happening because of one of the front 3 dropping back, getting the ball and trying to create something. We may as well be bypassing our midfield they've been that useless so far.

      I'm confident once he gets another goal or 2 that he will then be ssmashing then in regularly.


      Fair play and I hope you're right. To be honest though I wouldn't be rushing to compare him to Suarez, he's not in the same universe. Ian Rush went nine games without scoring when he first broke into the team too, but the fact that he went on to leave that form well behind doesn't mean Firmino is about to do it. Usually when players spend two seasons scoring very infrequently as Bobby has, they at best improve a little bit going forward. The idea that he's suddenly going to turn into a Suarez, while being I suppose possible, seems a little unlikely to me.

      Just to be clear, I think Bobby is one of our better players. I just don't think if we keep playing him as our first choice centre forward that we'll achieve much. Teams that do tend to have a number 9 who scores heavily.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #1296: Aug 21, 2017 11:03:15 pm
      To be honest though I wouldn't be rushing to compare him to Suarez, he's not in the same universe.

      Wasn't comparing them at all mate, didn't mean for it to come across that way because there's only really 2 or 3 players that are up there with Suarez and I wouldn't be surprised if it's a while before we have a player of that ability at the club again. Was more a case of saying that even the best of players will have droughts in front of goal. Important thing is that Bobby isn't losing confidence, he's still getting into the positions and still taking shots at goal and like I said, that shambles of a midfield really isn't helping matters. Hopefully when Coutinho gets over his strop he will help our midfield step up a few gears and hopefully we will see Bobby and the other 2 as well, benefit as a result.
      bigmick
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #1297: Aug 21, 2017 11:05:51 pm
      Wasn't comparing them at all mate, didn't mean for it to come across that way because there's only really 2 or 3 players that are up there with Suarez and I wouldn't be surprised if it's a while before we have a player of that ability at the club again. Was more a case of saying that even the best of players will have droughts in front of goal. Important thing is that Bobby isn't losing confidence, he's still getting into the positions and still taking shots at goal and like I said, that shambles of a midfield really isn't helping matters. Hopefully when Coutinho gets over his strop he will help our midfield step up a few gears and hopefully we will see Bobby and the other 2 as well, benefit as a result.

      No question it's hard for any striker with Henderson, Wijnaldum and Milner in behind, only a muppet would dispute that (and hopefully I ain't one of those). Sturridge still copped a bit of flak for Saturday though, mind you I too thought he was quiet.
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #1298: Aug 22, 2017 06:33:19 am
      Some still think he is a number "9" or a false "9" down the middle striker, until they stop thinking along these lines they will never understand how Klopp wants the team to play, he thinks everyone should contribute goals.

      Except for false 9 Bobby.  :f_tongueincheek:
      « Last Edit: Aug 22, 2017 06:38:55 am by Beerbelly »
      Swab
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #1299: Aug 22, 2017 01:02:50 pm
      Some still think he is a number "9" or a false "9" down the middle striker, until they stop thinking along these lines they will never understand how Klopp wants the team to play, he thinks everyone should contribute goals.

      Exactly.
      Clinging to the idea that we play a central striker after watching Klopp's teams, is a bit of an odd one to me.
      We play 3 rotating attackers, and they are all expected to score goals, as well as the AM chipping in a few.
      When we are not in possession, we play (more or less) a 6 man midfield, with designated trigger men for the press, and others stepping forwards to close down passing lanes.
      This is why when at his best and fit, we see Henderson leading the press, and often being the furthest forwards.

      I said it before; we got used to this idea of rigid systems, and player positions under Rafa, but Klopp is a completely different kind of coach.
      Rafa was famous for telling his players where they should be, almost to the inch, Klopp prefers players who are more instinctive, and who are thinkers. Yes he will instruct them, but it's more about guidance than "you must be here, when player x is there".
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #1300: Aug 22, 2017 01:36:10 pm
      Our top goalscorer 2015/16 and 2 goals behind Mane and Couts last season  :f_tongueincheek:

      In the League that is because in all competitions he was behind Coutinho and Sturridge.

      His 11 goals in 49 games, compared to Coutinho getting 12 in 43 and Sturridge scoring 13 in just 25 games in all competitions in 15/16.

      While last season; he scored 12 goals in 41 games. Coutinho netted 14 goals in 36 games and Mane scored 13 in 29 games.
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #1301: Aug 22, 2017 01:42:31 pm
      In the League that is because in all competitions he was behind Coutinho and Sturridge.

      His 11 goals in 49 games, compared to Coutinho getting 12 in 43 and Sturridge scoring 13 in just 25 games in all competitions in 15/16.

      While last season; he scored 12 goals in 41 games. Coutinho netted 14 goals in 36 games and Mane scored 13 in 29 games.

      Don't forget, Mane was Africa while Coutinho was in midfield.

      As your numbers show, both Coutinho and Mane played considerably less games than Firmino.

      Hardly a ringing endorsement of him in the goals scored department.
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #1302: Aug 22, 2017 01:45:14 pm
      Don't forget, Mane was Africa while Coutinho was in midfield.

      As your numbers show, both Coutinho and Mane played considerably less games than Firmino.

      Hardly a ringing endorsement of him in the goals scored department.

      I'm just stating the numbers mate, get into all the technical stuff about positions and what not and you then have the easy reply of Firmino wasn't deployed as a forward under Rodgers when he first arrived and this, that and the other.
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #1303: Aug 22, 2017 01:47:35 pm
      I'm just stating the numbers mate, get into all the technical stuff about positions and what not and you then have the easy reply of Firmino wasn't deployed as a forward under Rodgers when he first arrived and this, that and the other.

      Well, the numbers are what they are, like I said not a ringing endorsement IMO.
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #1304: Aug 22, 2017 01:57:55 pm
      Well, the numbers are what they are, like I said not a ringing endorsement IMO.

      No they're not mate, if we're judging a forward on how many goals he scores - which for me is the fundamental purpose of a forward. Others though judge more on a players all round game and therefore see Firmino as doing his job.
      Munch101
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #1305: Aug 22, 2017 03:36:30 pm
      I've said it once and i'll say it again on this forum.

      Firmino doesn't work well in our system I think he IS the system. Klopp has slightly tweaked his Gegenpressen football which usually requires a pacey striker to get in behind from winning the ball back and changed it to be Firmino winning it high up the pitch and then giving it to Mane and Salah who can quickly back him up.

      Not many strikers can press like he can and create so much space for Salah and Mane.
      I'd probably say there's only 5 or so strikers in world football that squeeze the life out of defenders. Suarez being one of them.
      Scotia
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #1306: Aug 22, 2017 06:47:03 pm
      I've said it once and i'll say it again on this forum.

      Firmino doesn't work well in our system I think he IS the system. Klopp has slightly tweaked his Gegenpressen football which usually requires a pacey striker to get in behind from winning the ball back and changed it to be Firmino winning it high up the pitch and then giving it to Mane and Salah who can quickly back him up.

      Not many strikers can press like he can and create so much space for Salah and Mane.
      I'd probably say there's only 5 or so strikers in world football that squeeze the life out of defenders. Suarez being one of them.

      Lot of truth in that mate.

      Still, half a dozen extra every season wouldn't half render this debate redundant as well 😉
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #1307: Aug 22, 2017 10:26:54 pm
      His all round game is up there, it's not all about his goal tally, he does so much more but I guess some only see certain things they want to see.

      Of course his game is much more about his goal tally.

      With a goal tally like that it's got to be.  :D
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #1308: Aug 23, 2017 07:28:23 am
      I've said it once and i'll say it again on this forum.

      Firmino doesn't work well in our system I think he IS the system. Klopp has slightly tweaked his Gegenpressen football which usually requires a pacey striker to get in behind from winning the ball back and changed it to be Firmino winning it high up the pitch and then giving it to Mane and Salah who can quickly back him up.

      Not many strikers can press like he can and create so much space for Salah and Mane.
      I'd probably say there's only 5 or so strikers in world football that squeeze the life out of defenders. Suarez being one of them.

      I've seen some hyperbole on this forum about Roberto such as, at the beginning of last season he was going to become as good as Suarez and if not, he would be our top goalscorer, and if not he'd be our player of the year, and if not we'd have to wait for more inevitable predictions and superlatives about the lad for this season.

      Alas...

      Now, in a Klopp team Roberto is the system ;D. So much for the TEAM being the system, and the sum of it's parts coming together to make it a system. I will grant Roberto is no slouch when it comes to team work and is part of that sum. However, this Gegenpress talk is sporadic and isn't the only strategy our opponents let us ply. We haven't really pressed effectively for a while, even against Hoffenheim who would be prized opponents to press we didn't do this like we did early on last season. Teams like Crystal Palace won't allow us to Gegenpress because they sit deep and hand over possession to us; therefore rendering 'running down defences' rarer in 90 minutes of play. Ball retention/creation and pass and move is the key driver in opening up many defences in the Premier league. And it's during these type of games where Roberto's best work (his running and hassling) renders him invisible like it has done on so many occasions since he's been deployed as "false 9". What we do see in these games more than his pressing is him trying to retain possession and this along with his poor goal return has got to be one of the worst aspects of his game, whether it's due to poor control or a wayward pass he surrenders possession far too easily. Granted, he'll try his hardest to win it back even though any momentum in our possession was seized the moment Bobby got on the ball. But that's not the quality you want in a SYSTEM that has to break an opponent down.

      Nobody has doubted Firmino's running is useful against those bigger, more expansive sides and it will probably feature very well in many Champions League games this season. However, when 'running' isn't the order of the day, and making yourself the 'fox in the box' - who can make their own space by pulling off a defender and finding yourself in goal scoring positions, and being clinical to boot then for me Firmino isn't the answer IMHO. Strikers naturally not only make space for themselves by pulling defenders out, they'll make it for other attacking players, so there is a bit of a narrative going on here and it seems that Roberto is the only player who can currently make room for players like Mane and Salah. That's utter tosh. It's just another superlative to notch to his belt along with his pressing to supplement the shortfall in his goal scoring - like many in here are doing for him. Looking for anything to clutch at.

      It seems to me, certain players are fair game for critique on here like your Lovren's, Mignolet's, Milner's etc. Yet, when you critique a decent player like Bobby, sharing your opinion that certain games would be better optimised in using his talent, your met with ridiculous hyperbole in his defence. Like, when he doesn't play he still gets MotM (figuratively speaking). He had that many 7's, 8's, 9's out 10's last season on here you'd have thought he would have automatically been our player of the season - instead, it went to the fella who spent two months in Africa.  :D


      « Last Edit: Aug 23, 2017 07:40:50 am by Beerbelly »
      skamp
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #1309: Aug 23, 2017 10:11:29 am
      I've seen some hyperbole on this forum about Roberto such as, at the beginning of last season he was going to become as good as Suarez and if not, he would be our top goalscorer, and if not he'd be our player of the year, and if not we'd have to wait for more inevitable predictions and superlatives about the lad for this season.

      Alas...

      Now, in a Klopp team Roberto is the system ;D. So much for the TEAM being the system, and the sum of it's parts coming together to make it a system. I will grant Roberto is no slouch when it comes to team work and is part of that sum. However, this Gegenpress talk is sporadic and isn't the only strategy our opponents let us ply. We haven't really pressed effectively for a while, even against Hoffenheim who would be prized opponents to press we didn't do this like we did early on last season. Teams like Crystal Palace won't allow us to Gegenpress because they sit deep and hand over possession to us; therefore rendering 'running down defences' rarer in 90 minutes of play. Ball retention/creation and pass and move is the key driver in opening up many defences in the Premier league. And it's during these type of games where Roberto's best work (his running and hassling) renders him invisible like it has done on so many occasions since he's been deployed as "false 9". What we do see in these games more than his pressing is him trying to retain possession and this along with his poor goal return has got to be one of the worst aspects of his game, whether it's due to poor control or a wayward pass he surrenders possession far too easily. Granted, he'll try his hardest to win it back even though any momentum in our possession was seized the moment Bobby got on the ball. But that's not the quality you want in a SYSTEM that has to break an opponent down.

      Nobody has doubted Firmino's running is useful against those bigger, more expansive sides and it will probably feature very well in many Champions League games this season. However, when 'running' isn't the order of the day, and making yourself the 'fox in the box' - who can make their own space by pulling off a defender and finding yourself in goal scoring positions, and being clinical to boot then for me Firmino isn't the answer IMHO. Strikers naturally not only make space for themselves by pulling defenders out, they'll make it for other attacking players, so there is a bit of a narrative going on here and it seems that Roberto is the only player who can currently make room for players like Mane and Salah. That's utter tosh. It's just another superlative to notch to his belt along with his pressing to supplement the shortfall in his goal scoring - like many in here are doing for him. Looking for anything to clutch at.

      It seems to me, certain players are fair game for critique on here like your Lovren's, Mignolet's, Milner's etc. Yet, when you critique a decent player like Bobby, sharing your opinion that certain games would be better optimised in using his talent, your met with ridiculous hyperbole in his defence. Like, when he doesn't play he still gets MotM (figuratively speaking). He had that many 7's, 8's, 9's out 10's last season on here you'd have thought he would have automatically been our player of the season - instead, it went to the fella who spent two months in Africa.  :D
      Interesting post this; I would "like" it, but either I don't know how to do it or I'm not allowed yet as a newbie.
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #1310: Aug 23, 2017 10:15:52 am
      This is the Firmino thread mate.

      I'm a big fan of the lad (as you know) but that is funny as F**k mate.  ;D

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